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Thread: New Republic hits Ron Paul again

  1. #1

    Default New Republic hits Ron Paul again

    Posted 2 hours ago, according to Google:
    http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.ht...d-020982d8becb

    This needs to be addressed, I feel.



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  3. #2

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    They have lost all credit in my book, I refuse to acknowledge they exisit and refuse to read any more of the crap they spew. Correct me if I am wrong, it's another blatant idiotic pointless attempt to smear Ron Paul, right? Right, and low and behold, once again it appears right before the primary. It's becoming redundent, don't you agree?
    Last edited by Ara825; 01-15-2008 at 02:33 AM.

  4. #3

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    I agree, but I have the feeling it isn't noticeably damaging RP in the polls (one way or another) but it is dividing us as supporters and slowing the campaign down. Sowing doubt if you will.

    I think the problem needs to be acknowledged and owned - and the question on everybody's minds is "If not Paul, who wrote it then?" Also, I was previously under the impression that it was a few newsletters, not so many -- and the comments are collectivist - so I'm asking "How could this have escaped Dr. Paul's attention for so long?"

    I would like to have answers as well. I know Dr. Paul wants to say he didn't write it and leave it at that...... but still, it lingers.


  5. #4

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    well those that were going to leave have.....

    those that are determined to stay with him read: blah blah blah smear

    Its funny but I really don't find any of those offensive, just politically incorrect. And all the quotes seem to be deliberately taken out of context to imply things other than their meaning.

    Hillary gut got away with implying that one of the greatest pacifist leaders of all time ran a gas station, people laughed.
    McCain has used 'Gook' many times on camera.
    Huck pretends to get cell call from the Almighty, which I find blasphemous and Greatly insulting to my faith.
    Edwards left his dying wife for another woman.
    Romney has a man-dolphin following him around.
    Rudys closet is like the Arlington Cemetary.
    Fred...well I don't know any dirt on Fred, but he's got a hottie wife, so he had to sell his soul for that so its out there



    TNR promoting a racist card against a statist?

    Pot Kettle Black
    Last edited by Cinci4RP; 01-15-2008 at 02:53 AM.
    There are those, I know, who will say that the liberation of humanity, the freedom of man and mind, is nothing but a dream. They are right. It is the American dream. ~Archibald MacLeish

  6. #5

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    Email them and ask if they have taken up fabricating stories again.
    In New Zealand:
    The Coastguard is a Charity
    Air Traffic Control is a private company run on user fees
    The DMV is a private non-profit
    Rescue helicopters and ambulances are operated by charities and are plastered with corporate logos
    The agriculture industry has zero subsidies
    5% of the national vote, gets you 5 seats in Parliament
    A tax return has 4 fields
    Business licenses aren't even a thing nor are capital gains taxes
    Constitutional right to refuse any type of medical care

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by trispear View Post
    I agree, but I have the feeling it isn't noticeably damaging RP in the polls (one way or another) but it is dividing us as supporters and slowing the campaign down. Sowing doubt if you will.

    I think the problem needs to be acknowledged and owned - and the question on everybody's minds is "If not Paul, who wrote it then?" Also, I was previously under the impression that it was a few newsletters, not so many -- and the comments are collectivist - so I'm asking "How could this have escaped Dr. Paul's attention for so long?"

    I would like to have answers as well. I know Dr. Paul wants to say he didn't write it and leave it at that...... but still, it lingers.

    Nothing in the new article offends me. More like unpleasant truths. Very politically incorrect, but unpleasant truths nonetheless.

    Whats wrong with calling the ATF 'Jackbooted Thugs'?

    They are firing blanks. They are losing credibility(edit: oops you have to have something to lose it). I was sent this article by a lefty I've been working on and in his email he said its pretty obvious they are reaching.
    There are those, I know, who will say that the liberation of humanity, the freedom of man and mind, is nothing but a dream. They are right. It is the American dream. ~Archibald MacLeish

  8. #7

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    What's funny is that the only newsletter where Paul is identified as having anything to do with it is the Ron Paul Investment Letter... the only newsletter without bigoted commentary.

  9. #8

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    I read the full newletters and there's really nothing there.

  10. #9

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    They've already released the most "damning" newsletters.

    Now they are just scrapping the barrel trying to spin things into a bad light. Politically incorrect in today's standard? Sure, but racist? Nah.

  11. #10

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    Unbelievable. They cite Paul and Rockwell as the authors and editors of the Ron Paul Investment Letter, but can't point to any questionable comments in them. This is a clear attempt to get their readers to confuse the Investment Letter with the original newsletters and lead them to believe they are one and the same. Rotten!

    Of course, TNR is a little behind schedule, apparently, as the Michigan primaries are today. They should have posted this article yesterday.
    Last edited by Mises; 01-15-2008 at 08:49 AM.

  12. #11

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    those who call it a "smear" are forgetting that the information is in fact, true. Newsletters that were racially charged went out in RP's name. If he wants to save his campaign he needs to address it.

    ragging on reason and TNR is pointless. They're doing what they do, its the free market, right? Ron Paul needs to seriously address the newsletters before he gets one more dime from me.

    Not because I think he wrote them (I dont), but because he'll never be president unless he DOES address them!! Saying "I have no idea who wrote them" is the lamest thing I ever heard.

    Its like stumbling in at 2am with lipstick on your collar stinking of perfume...and not expecting your wife to be suspicious! Denial wont work here! We need ANSWERS from Ron Paul himself.

  13. #12

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    No, you are the one who needs answers. Unfortunately, you are too short-sighted to understand that if he lends credibility to the matter by further addressing the issue when he already has (multiple times) that then his campaign will be ruined.

    TNR is trying to goad him into holding a press conference to address the articles, which would reak of panic-stricken damage control, backtracking, and a guilty conscience.

    The matter is over and done with - except in the eyes of TNR. Did you even read this latest article? It's garbage! They are trying to show he has connections with Pat Buchanan and insinuating that he did write the investment letter so he must have written all the articles in the political report. It's such a childish reach that Kirchik should be embarassed! You want Paul to cow-tow to that?

    You're not going to be satisfied, so you may as well go support Kucinich.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mises View Post
    Unbelievable. They cite Paul and Rockwell as the authors and editors of the Ron Paul Investment Letter, but can't point to any questionable comments in them. This is a clear attempt to get their readers to confuse the Investment Letter with the original newsletters and lead them to believe they are one and the same. Rotten!

    Of course, TNR is a little behind schedule, apparently, as the Michigan primaries are today. They should have posted this article yesterday.
    They did the same thing with NH and it seemed to work to their advantage.

  15. #14

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    the only bad excerpts are from 91-92. the stuff in there that isn't involved with 91-92 is mostly about trilateral commission, nwo, bohemian grove, etc. and, well, that stuff isn't a big deal at all to me. TNR is conflating a bunch of different issues and trying to present them as a continuous period in which those things all persisted, all the time, but like I said, the "racist" stuff seems to be from 91-92, and the politically incorrect stuff like the bohemian grove, the nwo, AIPAC, etc. are conflated with it and tagged as "conspiracy" and "antisemitic". /shrug

  16. #15

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    And the fact that the MSM has more or less ignored this should be another sign that this stuff isn't a "big deal" -- sure they ran a few snippets 3-4 days after it was released, but I've read nothing since.

    I except it to be mentioned, randomly, a few more times in the next week or two but they recognize that it has no merit and can't be proven that Paul was involved in any form.

    TNR is only releasing more newsletters because no one really cared when they re-released the ones in the first article. I think they expected a lot more publicity and are mad that they didn't get it.

    Now they release more newsletters, trying to confuse people, but any normal person who reads any of that will go.. "eh, so?"

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by kellann View Post
    those who call it a "smear" are forgetting that the information is in fact, true. Newsletters that were racially charged went out in RP's name. If he wants to save his campaign he needs to address it.

    ragging on reason and TNR is pointless. They're doing what they do, its the free market, right? Ron Paul needs to seriously address the newsletters before he gets one more dime from me.

    Not because I think he wrote them (I dont), but because he'll never be president unless he DOES address them!! Saying "I have no idea who wrote them" is the lamest thing I ever heard.

    Its like stumbling in at 2am with lipstick on your collar stinking of perfume...and not expecting your wife to be suspicious! Denial wont work here! We need ANSWERS from Ron Paul himself.
    Why do you think he *does* know? I've been involved in libertarian political campaigns before, and they are so disorganized, and fruitcakes usually end up taking the reins and getting all the media attention. There have been local newsletters and political organizations in my own state that were founded by intelligent, well-meaning people who eventually ended up dropping out of politics altogether for a while, and having nothing to do with the newsletters. The crazies take over, and steer everything into the ground. Nobody intelligent ever becomes involved with those organizations again.

    I have a strong idea that this is exactly what happened to the Ron Paul newsletter.

    This is not to detract from your overall points however. The newsletters have been damaging. Its hard to convert people when the first thing they say is, "Ron Paul? The racist?" Don't think that doesn't happen, either. It happens constantly. Unfortunately, I don't know how to deal with it, and if I were in Paul's shoes I'd probably do the same things he's been doing.

    The important thing is to stay true to YOUR principles, and promote freedom and limited government however and whenever you can. You cannot abandon the Ron Paul campaign, thereby abandoning your values and giving up the fight to those who would see you and your ideologies destroyed. In the end, that's what this is really about... not whether or not Ron Paul is a racist, but whether libertarianism itself, and you by association, are to be considered insane and fringe. TNR and others are attempting to derail this campaign for the purposes of derailing the political philosophy itself, not because they actually care if Paul is a racist, because the political philosophy is what scares them.
    Last edited by Xenophage; 01-15-2008 at 09:22 AM.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mises View Post
    No, you are the one who needs answers. Unfortunately, you are too short-sighted to understand that if he lends credibility to the matter by further addressing the issue when he already has (multiple times) that then his campaign will be ruined.

    TNR is trying to goad him into holding a press conference to address the articles, which would reak of panic-stricken damage control, backtracking, and a guilty conscience.

    The matter is over and done with - except in the eyes of TNR. Did you even read this latest article? It's garbage! They are trying to show he has connections with Pat Buchanan and insinuating that he did write the investment letter so he must have written all the articles in the political report. It's such a childish reach that Kirchik should be embarassed! You want Paul to cow-tow to that?

    You're not going to be satisfied, so you may as well go support Kucinich.
    Look, I'm just being honest. *I KNOW* why they're putting them out and yes, *I KNOW* the politics behind it.

    Trust me, everytime he rises in polls or does well in a primary it will come up...until he finally decides to put it to bed for real. Most people either dont know or dont care about the fight between CATO and Mises. They dont care about the agenda behind the revelation. They only care that Ron Paul had a newsletter with his name on it that was very racist and very homophobic. They dont care about ideological arguements between Paleo-libertarians and Neo-libertarians!!

    Just being realistic and telling you what I'm seeing out there in my campaigning for Paul. We need to convert NEW people to win an election and that wont happen as long as "Ron Paul = Racist" in the general populace's eyes.

  19. #18

    Default Why are the newletters complete?

    The pdf's are only parts of the newletters. Why? Are there portions of the newletter that contradict the selectively reported parts. Let us for the sake of argument say Ron Paul wrote every single word. Objectively, the worst you can say is that they are extremely politically incorrect. The "N" word is never used. Most of the criticisms of homosexuals seem to be by someone with a religious objection to homosexuality. While I don't personally share these views or the views of the lifestyle libertarians at Reason Magazine, it's a legitimate point of view.

    Why is it racist to criticize Martin Luther King and the Civil Rights movement? I think King was a mixed bag like so many other people. He was right on the VietNam war and the evil of Jim Crow. However, he was a socialist on economic matters. And yes, he did cheat on his wife. Not the sort of behavior one should expect from a preacher. And he was a plagarist. I was very disappointed with Larry Elder the other day. For those of you who don't know, Larry Elder is a conservative/libertarian talk radio host on KABC in LA. He's been called Uncle Tom and the like because he doesn't agree with Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton,etc. The other day he read excerpts from the newletters on the air. He seemed to be pretending to be indignant about some of the content. The ironic part is that he agrees or agreed with a lot of it and has been attacked by the same people as Ron Paul.
    "Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear. "


    "It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself. "


    Thomas Jefferson

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by kellann View Post
    Look, I'm just being honest. *I KNOW* why they're putting them out and yes, *I KNOW* the politics behind it.

    Trust me, everytime he rises in polls or does well in a primary it will come up...until he finally decides to put it to bed for real. Most people either dont know or dont care about the fight between CATO and Mises. They dont care about the agenda behind the revelation. They only care that Ron Paul had a newsletter with his name on it that was very racist and very homophobic. They dont care about ideological arguements between Paleo-libertarians and Neo-libertarians!!

    Just being realistic and telling you what I'm seeing out there in my campaigning for Paul. We need to convert NEW people to win an election and that wont happen as long as "Ron Paul = Racist" in the general populace's eyes.
    I'm telling you - you're living in Fantasyland if you think he can "put this to bed" somehow. The bomb has gone off. The damage has been done. He has apologized for this more than once in his career. Giving attention to this garbage now will do nothing to convert people to his campaign. It will only shine more light on the problem and then more people will call for explanations, and on and on...it won't be enough.

    If you really want more people to come over to Ron Paul's side, then you should be aware that making yourself look guilty has a negative effect on gathering support.

  21. #20

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    People here spent 10 minutes reading that trash. That's ten minutes that could have been put to better use doing something positive for the campaign. Ignore them! We are only adding fuel to their fire.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mises View Post
    I'm telling you - you're living in Fantasyland if you think he can "put this to bed" somehow. The bomb has gone off. The damage has been done. He has apologized for this more than once in his career. Giving attention to this garbage now will do nothing to convert people to his campaign. It will only shine more light on the problem and then more people will call for explanations, and on and on...it won't be enough.

    If you really want more people to come over to Ron Paul's side, then you should be aware that making yourself look guilty has a negative effect on gathering support.
    Your plan to stick your head in the sand and hope the enemies of this campaign give up this smear campaign is stupid beyond belief.

    You wouldn't happen to be in the leadership of the Paul campaign staff would you? Because the nonsense you are peddling here sounds like the same kind of braindead stupidity coming out of the national HQ.

  23. #22

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    "A fundraising letter from Paul's 1984 Senate campaign in which Paul complains about the "minions of Kissinger and Rockefeller" and "the big New York banks, and their pals in Texas" who "want me silenced.""

    WOW! This is sure racist. Joke.

    "The June 1996 issue of the Ron Paul Survival Report refers to Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms officers as "Jackbooted Thugs.""

    Oh, how horrible.

    "The September 1995 issue of the Ron Paul Survival Report asks about "Black Helicopters?""

    I'm sure you couldn't paint a helicopter black, right?

    "In January 1992, Paul writes about his consideration of a presidential bid which he dashed after Pat Buchanan expressed his intention to run. Paul wrote of "the essential compatibility between [Buchanan's] ideas and mine" and "agreed to serve as the chairman of his economic advisory committee.""

    Oh my God, not Pat Buchanon! That's the kiss of death!

    Joke.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeanEdwards View Post
    Your plan to stick your head in the sand and hope the enemies of this campaign give up this smear campaign is stupid beyond belief.

    You wouldn't happen to be in the leadership of the Paul campaign staff would you? Because the nonsense you are peddling here sounds like the same kind of braindead stupidity coming out of the national HQ.
    What is truly remarkable is that you think he can hold a press conference and make this go away for good, or that someone can come forward, say "I did it!" with a sheepish grin, and all will be forgotten. Laughable.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mises View Post
    No, you are the one who needs answers. Unfortunately, you are too short-sighted to understand that if he lends credibility to the matter by further addressing the issue when he already has (multiple times) that then his campaign will be ruined.

    TNR is trying to goad him into holding a press conference to address the articles, which would reak of panic-stricken damage control, backtracking, and a guilty conscience.

    The matter is over and done with - except in the eyes of TNR. Did you even read this latest article? It's garbage! They are trying to show he has connections with Pat Buchanan and insinuating that he did write the investment letter so he must have written all the articles in the political report. It's such a childish reach that Kirchik should be embarassed! You want Paul to cow-tow to that?

    You're not going to be satisfied, so you may as well go support Kucinich.
    This unwillingness to see reality and why the average American will not buy Ron's current explanation is exactly why he will not win the nomination in the end.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeanEdwards View Post
    Your plan to stick your head in the sand and hope the enemies of this campaign give up this smear campaign is stupid beyond belief.

    You wouldn't happen to be in the leadership of the Paul campaign staff would you? Because the nonsense you are peddling here sounds like the same kind of braindead stupidity coming out of the national HQ.
    Thanks. That put Mises' stand on this into the perfect perspective.

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mises View Post
    What is truly remarkable is that you think he can hold a press conference and make this go away for good, or that someone can come forward, say "I did it!" with a sheepish grin, and all will be forgotten. Laughable.
    Chucking racists and homophobes under the bus is ALWAYS the right thing to do. You're willing to lose this campaign in order to protect Lew Rockwell's feelings?

    That's just dumb.

    It's one thing to say that Paul has nutball supporters, but it's an entirely different thing when the nutballs are part of the campaign staff. That's a campaign killer.

  28. #27

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    JMC:

    Reality? The reality is that his gets 5-10% in the polls. So let's visit utopia for awhile and assume he can actually make this all disappear. He holds a press conference, announces he did not write the letters, says it was wrong that he didn't oversee them properly, and disowns the comments. Maybe he even hangs his good friend Lew Rockwell out to dry. It's your fantasy, include whatever you want.

    Great then, in our alternate universe Paul is forgiven. Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton come out and say "we forgive you, Ron." The media collectively say, "well, since he apologized and took responsibility, we can drop the issue now. He will probably gain a lot more support now. What a great guy."

    Now, Ron Paul begins to spread his message and gain support. He even wins the nomination. But, because he answered the allegations (or insinuations) once before during the primaries, they will never come up again. Brit Hume, Wolf Blitzer, or Chris Matthews will not bring up these newsletters during the general election campaign because they know that Paul adequately answered the allegations. The New Republic will probably be silent on the matter as well. There is no possible way that this could come up again, forcing him to answer the charges a second time.

    Keep dreaming.

    The fact is that few people are really following the primaries now. Hardly anybody knows about this outside of the circle of people closely following politics. An explanation/apology right now will be used later to convict him during the general campaign. We all agree that this is a smear campaign against Paul. What on earth makes you think they will stop later on?

  29. #28

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    I dont find most of these letters to be all that offensive, to be honest. The only thing offensive is that TNR is trying so hard to MAKE it offensive. I dont get the bobby fischer bit.. So.. the ron paul report says congrats to bobby fischer for winning at chess. Does that mean that Ron Paul now is a holocost denier. because bobby fischer is? I dont get it.

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeanEdwards View Post
    You're willing to lose this campaign in order to protect Lew Rockwell's feelings?
    Well, naturally I do not believe that the present course of action will "lose the campaign" for Ron Paul - that's kind of what we are arguing, isn't it? Trying to morph my point into something you can attack more easily isn't very dignified. In fact, some may even say that it's "dumb."

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