A recount is pointless.

[brandon]

Personally, I am not convinced that voter fraud occured. Maybe it did, I just havn't seen good evidence.

Assuming fraud did occur, and we get a recount, what makes anyone think the results will be any different? If the diebold machines were manipulated, we will NEVER be able to figure out what the real vote was. The manipulation is done and there is no recovering the real votes. Get it?

Furthermore, if fraud occured with the paper ballots, do you really think we could find out? Voter fraud isnt some shoddy job done by a couple 15 year olds. If people defrauded the paper ballots I am certain they covered all of thier tracks. We are not going to undercover anything new. A recount will have as much credibility as the original vote.

So what is the point of it?

[Jodi]

Where we were most concerned was the diebold counted ballots. I would think this would be a total hand count.

[derdy]

Personally, I am not convinced that voter fraud occured. Maybe it did, I just havn't seen good evidence.

Assuming fraud did occur, and we get a recount, what makes anyone think the results will be any different? If the diebold machines were manipulated, we will NEVER be able to figure out what the real vote was. The manipulation is done and all there is no recovering the real votes. Get it?

Furthermore, if fraud occured with the paper ballots, do you really think we could find out? Voter fraud isnt some shoddy job done by a couple 15 year olds. If people defrauded the paper ballots I am certain they covered all of thier tracks. We are not going to undercover anything new. A recount will have as much credibility as the original vote.

So what is the point of it?

What's the point of voting if your vote doesn't count?

[deedles]

Let's all just let whatever happens, happens. Some don't want it, some do. It's going forward forward and opinions are a factor and clutter up the board. No offense intended.

Precinct captain is the most important thing anyone of us can do now.

[brandon]

Where we were most concerned was the diebold counted ballots. I would think this would be a total hand count.

Yea but my point is it is impossible to hand count that votes that were tallied via the diebold machines. There is no hard copy of these votes. The only record of the votes tallied via diebold is the current record that was released as the official results.

[ItsTime]

You will not believe how stupid people are when they try to cover things up. They make lots of mistakes.

[brandon]

What's the point of voting if your vote doesn't count?

That's a very good question, but not really relevant to my point.

[ItsTime]

wrong there are paper ballots. There are hard copies. You go into the polling booth fill out your paper ballot THEN put it into a machine that COUNTS it.

Yea but my point is it is impossible to hand count that votes that were tallied via the diebold machines. There is no hard copy of these votes. The only record of the votes tallied via diebold is the current record that was released as the official results.

[damon04]

whats the worst that could happen with a recount?? the same result?? shut up and remove this stupid thread

[doronster195]

In NH, ballots are filled out and are then run through the Diebolds. So basically, you just need to have a hand count of the ballot which the machine could not manipulate. That's what I learned reading around the forums.

[ItsTime]

100% correct... the people of New Hampshire are not totally stupid

wrong there are paper ballots. There are hard copies. You go into the polling booth fill out your paper ballot THEN put it into a machine that COUNTS it.

In NH, ballots are filled out and are then run through the Diebolds. So basically, you just need to have a hand count of the ballot which the machine could not manipulate. That's what I learned reading around the forums.

[derdy]

That's a very good question, but not really relevant to my point.

It's completely relevant. If vote fraud is occurring then it needs to be sniffed out, otherwise we may as well not vote on Super Tuesday.

[brandon]

whats the worst that could happen with a recount?? the same result?? shut up and remove this stupid thread

Apparently you havn't seen the forum rule that states "No antagonizing of others by non-established members."

The worst that could happen is people lose $65,000.

So what about my thread is stupid? Can you refute any of the points I made?

[defcreative]

I disagree, there is statistical evidence strongly suggesting foul play. If we catch fraud here and put those responsible in prison now, it will send a message out to any would-be frauders that they will end up in jail if they try to manipulate any other state elections.

Also, we are very close to Gouliani and reasonably close to Huckabee. If we end up getting 4th place it will be seen as a upward trend and add confidence to the campaign. If somehow we pulled 3rd that would be amazing, albeit unlikely.

Its a matter of principle and justice in my opinion and it needs to happen.

[ItsTime]

we already have and its only 12 grand... you have few of your facts right.

Apparently you havn't seen the forum rule that states "No antagonizing of others by non-established members."

The worst that could happen is people lose $65,000.

So what about my thread is stupid? Can you refute any of the points I made?

[brandon]

wrong there are paper ballots. There are hard copies. You go into the polling booth fill out your paper ballot THEN put it into a machine that COUNTS it.

Not from my understanding. Watch the video here of how diebold machines work...

http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/

No paper ballot involved. It is all done electronically

[brandon]

A recount will be done largely by the same people that did the original count.

ALso, can you give me a source on that 12k number?

[ItsTime]

I voted in New Hampsire... so did all of my family in New Hampshire... I think I know a little more than you about how the voting is done in New Hampshire.


http://www.dailypaul.com/node/24235

"It could cost as much as $12,000 to do the full recount"

Not from my understanding. Watch the video here of how diebold machines work...

http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/

No paper ballot involved. It is all done electronically

[brandon]

I voted in New Hampsire... so did all of my family in New Hampshire... I think I know a little more than you about how the voting is done in New Hampshire.

Did you vote in one of the diebold wards?

[brandon]

I voted in New Hampsire... so did all of my family in New Hampshire... I think I know a little more than you about how the voting is done in New Hampshire.


http://www.dailypaul.com/node/24235

"It could cost as much as $12,000 to do the full recount"

LOL! Your source is a post on the daily paul? haha!

[ItsTime]

yes, so did my in another town voted with a machine and so did my sister in a different town. Three different towns using machines using the same method. Sorry I can not find the link to prove what I am saying.

Did you vote in one of the diebold wards?

[brandon]

yes, so did my in another town voted with a machine and so did my sister in a different town. Three different towns using machines using the same method. Sorry I can not find the link to prove what I am saying.

Well then can you explain that video from princeton of the diebold voting machine? It is 100% electronic. There is no paper ballot involved.

[ItsTime]

there is more than one type of machine

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

Well then can you explain that video from princeton of the diebold voting machine? It is 100% electronic. There is no paper ballot involved.

[brandon]

there is more than one type of machine

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

Ok, fine. So that part of what I said is incorrect. My point still stands though. What makes you think they wouldn't use the diebold machines for the recount? What makes you think the same manipulation wont occur again?

Listen, I would love to have a recount find out that Paul actually finished 3rd. I just doubt it will, regardless of if fraud occured or not.

[Dutchie]

A recount is important because it brings more quality control and validity to elections which are now subject to fraud to due the many diebold faults. it is a good thing for the system to have checks and balances, whether or not it gives RP x percent more of the vote or not.

[ItsTime]

I dont care what Ron Paul finishes I HATE THESE MACHINES.

In the recount they need to HAND recount them.

A lot of non-Ron Paul supporters will be happy to hear there is going to be a recount.

Ok, fine. So that part of what I said is incorrect. My point still stands though. What makes you think they wouldn't use the diebold machines for the recount? What makes you think the same manipulation wont occur again?

Listen, I would love to have a recount find out that Paul actually finished 3rd. I just doubt it will, regardless of if fraud occured or not.

[brandon]

In the recount they need to HAND recount them.

I hope your right.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

We already have verified accounts of miscounted votes, so there is EVERY reason for a recount.

.