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Thread: Hacking Democracy

  1. #1

    Hacking Democracy

    Watch this video:
    http://video.google.com/googleplayer...69054201&hl=en

    If you still think all the conspiracy theorists are nuts, then you're simply in denial.

    Vote Fraud Exists
    and it's more rampant than ever. Get a clue.
    "I know not what course others may take, but as for me give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry



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  3. #2
    bump
    "I know not what course others may take, but as for me give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

  4. #3
    Hellloooo!!!
    "I know not what course others may take, but as for me give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

  5. #4
    I don't know how many areas are voting electronically. Most places use paper then count the paper with a machine. When it is done that way it is hard to manipulate the count with the computer because the paper ballots will prove the fraud. The machines that record that actual vote electronically are evil and should be outlawed.

  6. #5
    These machines are used in NH and your are assuming too much. The fraud runs deep. Watch that video
    "I know not what course others may take, but as for me give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Duckworth View Post
    These machines are used in NH and your are assuming too much. The fraud runs deep. Watch that video
    What machines? As far as I know all voting in NH is done on paper and then either counted on a machine or by hand. I am completely opposed to the use of electronic voting but not machine counting of paper ballots. Machine counting is more accurate than hand counting and it is pretty easy to determine if the machines are intentionally miscounting ballots. With electronic voting there is no way to know if the vote was manipulated or not. It would be the most accurate way to vote if it could be done securely.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ChickenHawk View Post
    What machines? As far as I know all voting in NH is done on paper and then either counted on a machine or by hand. I am completely opposed to the use of electronic voting but not machine counting of paper ballots. Machine counting is more accurate than hand counting and it is pretty easy to determine if the machines are intentionally miscounting ballots. With electronic voting there is no way to know if the vote was manipulated or not. It would be the most accurate way to vote if it could be done securely.
    The rigged mock election they run in the movie is done on paper and counted by a machine.

    Watch the movie.
    When Freedom became freedoms, it was lost.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by boberino View Post
    The rigged mock election they run in the movie is done on paper and counted by a machine.

    Watch the movie.
    I'm not sure if I've seen that movie or not. I will watch it when I have more time. If it was done on paper all you have to do is count the paper ballots by hand to verify the machines are wrong. Once the machines are determined not to be compromised they will more accurately count the ballots.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ChickenHawk View Post
    I'm not sure if I've seen that movie or not. I will watch it when I have more time. If it was done on paper all you have to do is count the paper ballots by hand to verify the machines are wrong. Once the machines are determined not to be compromised they will more accurately count the ballots.
    In most places, to hand recount the ballots you have to prove an inconsistency in between the votes and the machine count. The only true way to do that is to count the ballots.
    When Freedom became freedoms, it was lost.

  12. #10
    The votes are filled in on paper, BUT- the Paper is then run through a SCANNING MACHINE which is uses software to tabulate the vote total. Then all the vote totals from all the different tabulating machines are compiled by computer program. It is the scanning machine and the central tabulators that are used to "rig the vote."

    If people don't understand this (which they obviously don't because they keep posting this ridiculous "the Votes are on PAPER" stuff)- then you might consider actually watching the video the OP posted.

    Then find a picture of the "machines" (ie scanners/tabulators) that were used in New Hampshire and all over the country. They are the EXACT SAME machines.


    P.S. For those that still don't get it: It's kind of like in college when you took tests on "scantron" paper. You would fill in the multiple choice answers by filling in the "bubbles" (A,B,C, or D); and then that piece of PAPER would be fed into a MACHINE to "Count" the number of right and wrong answers. This is the same principle involved with the potential vote fraud people are discussing in regards to New Hampshire (and the rest of the country). Watch the Documentary!

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by boberino View Post
    In most places, to hand recount the ballots you have to prove an inconsistency in between the votes and the machine count. The only true way to do that is to count the ballots.
    I think the real problem is the election laws not the fact the ballots are counted on a machine. Here in Washington state you can't successfully challenge an election unless you can prove that the fraud would have changed the outcome. Proving that fraud put the outcome in serious doubt isn't enough. So if someone burns 10K ballots from a county that voted overwhelmingly for the losing candidate that candidate can't get a new election even if they only lost by one vote.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndAmericanRevolution View Post
    The votes are filled in on paper, BUT- the Paper is then run through a SCANNING MACHINE which is uses software to tabulate the vote total. Then all the vote totals from all the different tabulating machines are compiled by computer program. It is the scanning machine and the central tabulators that are used to "rig the vote."

    If people don't understand this (which they obviously don't because they keep posting this ridiculous "the Votes are on PAPER" stuff)- then you might consider actually watching the video the OP posted.

    Then find a picture of the "machines" (ie scanners/tabulators) that were used in New Hampshire and all over the country. They are the EXACT SAME machines.


    P.S. For those that still don't get it: It's kind of like in college when you took tests on "scantron" paper. You would fill in the multiple choice answers by filling in the "bubbles" (A,B,C, or D); and then that piece of PAPER would be fed into a MACHINE to "Count" the number of right and wrong answers. This is the same principle involved with the potential vote fraud people are discussing in regards to New Hampshire (and the rest of the country). Watch the Documentary!
    Do you think they throw away the paper ballots? If you think there is fraud go count the damn things and see if they match the machine numbers. It is pretty easy to determine fraud when the original votes are on paper.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ChickenHawk View Post
    Do you think they throw away the paper ballots? If you think there is fraud go count the damn things and see if they match the machine numbers. It is pretty easy to determine fraud when the original votes are on paper.
    They will NOT recount the paper ballots unless a discrepancy between the machine count and the paper ballots can be proven. And the only way to prove it is to count the paper ballots.
    When Freedom became freedoms, it was lost.

  16. #14
    Yeah, that would be ideal, but that is the whole problem. They won't LET YOU RECOUNT THE PAPER BALLOTS and varify that the official count was accurate. (EDIT to add: Unless you can prove a need to, which can only be done by recount...Classic Catch 22, like the above poster stated).

    And why the hell is the burden of proof on me as a voter? Shouldn't the system be self-varifiable in a "Democracy" to begin with. It SHOULD, but it is not.
    Last edited by 2ndAmericanRevolution; 01-09-2008 at 10:22 AM.

  17. #15
    I was reading the forums over at http://www.blackboxvoting.org and found this thread particularly timely and interesting regarding the process in NH as well as it's flaws and complaints.

    http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/mess...tml?1199895880

  18. #16
    The 'paper' is counted by a Diebold Machine with hackable firmware.

    All the rest are counted on hackable Diebold op-scan systems, with completely hackable memory cards, all programmed and managed by LHS Associates. As Bev Harris of BlackBoxVoting.org who seems to share my concern, says, LHS is the "chain of custody" in New Hampshire elections. They used one of the worst voting systems in America and then handed programming of every memory card in New Hampshire over to a private outfit run by John Silvestro.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by boberino View Post
    They will NOT recount the paper ballots unless a discrepancy between the machine count and the paper ballots can be proven. And the only way to prove it is to count the paper ballots.
    That is why the problem is the law not the machines. I believe that they can be counted by a private third party after the election. If fraud is proven it would really help to force the legislatures to change the laws. This doesn't help in this election but it can help in the future. People are wasting their time and energy screaming about rigged ballot counting machines. They really need to focus their energy on changing the laws. Talking about rigged machines when there is no solid evidence this has happened in this election only makes people who talk about election fraud look like nuts. That doesn't help the cause. When you prove that these machines were rigged in this election then start screaming and I'll start screaming with you.

  21. #18
    This thread is dead on the money- and for the people uninformed, non-profit organizations have been asking and asking to be able to hand count all the votes in public, THEY WON'T LET ALL THE PAPER BALLOTS BE COUNTED AFTER THE MACHINES DID.

    The reason this is a big problem is that NO MATTER HOW GOOD WE ACTUALLY DO IT WILL NEVER SHOW IN THE POLLS. We need to address this issue seriously..

    Bryan, love the sig. That speech was given in Richmond, Va. =)

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by JenH88 View Post
    This thread is dead on the money- and for the people uninformed, non-profit organizations have been asking and asking to be able to hand count all the votes in public, THEY WON'T LET ALL THE PAPER BALLOTS BE COUNTED AFTER THE MACHINES DID.

    The reason this is a big problem is that NO MATTER HOW GOOD WE ACTUALLY DO IT WILL NEVER SHOW IN THE POLLS. We need to address this issue seriously..

    Bryan, love the sig. That speech was given in Richmond, Va. =)
    If that is true it is totally unacceptable. I do remember hearing that a non profit counted the Florida votes after the 2000 election. I'm sure every state has different laws about this.

    If anyone thinks that hand counting all the ballots in every election is going to prevent fraud they are dreaming.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by boberino View Post
    They will NOT recount the paper ballots unless a discrepancy between the machine count and the paper ballots can be proven. And the only way to prove it is to count the paper ballots.
    Yup.

  24. #21

    Exclamation

    The 2000 & 2004 'elections' provided significant proof of vote fraud.

    If the RP campaign does nothing to demand a transparent vote.... what does this mean?

    The good news is that RP supporters can expose the fraud without a recount- don't wait for HQ- Do it Yourself!

    NH Patriots need to check the 'votes by town' list if a town says 20 votes for RP, and you can find 50 RP supporters.... make your voices heard!



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