Short report from a friend of mine in Iowa

[RonPaulFever]

A good friend of mine who is in Council Bluffs supporting Hillary tells me that Ron Paul people are EVERYWHERE.....but that there has been a skirmish or two with local police regarding illegal/improper solicitation of literature.....he says to warn everyone that soliciting literature in or around the mall is ILLEGAL and should be avoided.

[wgadget]

Yes, and always remember:

STAY ON THE SIDEWALKS!


GRRRRRRRRRRRR.

[No1ButPaul08]

A good friend of mine who is in Council Bluffs supporting Hillary tells me that Ron Paul people are EVERYWHERE.....but that there has been a skirmish or two with local police regarding illegal/improper solicitation of literature.....he says to warn everyone that soliciting literature in or around the mall is ILLEGAL and should be avoided.

That's too bad that your friend supports Hillary. She gives me the shivers.

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

A good friend of mine who is in Council Bluffs supporting Hillary tells me that Ron Paul people are EVERYWHERE.....but that there has been a skirmish or two with local police regarding illegal/improper solicitation of literature.....he says to warn everyone that soliciting literature in or around the mall is ILLEGAL and should be avoided.

Skirmishes? I don't like the sound of that. What kind of "skirmishes"...

[John P Slevin]

Actually, it is not illegal per se.

The mall operators can give permission for expressive activities. Police only have reason to become involved is a property owner or agent calls them because someone wouldn't leave when asked, behaved "badly" etc.

Typically, a refusal to leave when asked to by cops could result in a trespass citation, and an order to appear before a court. Any jailing of the person would be up to the cops, unless the property owner effected a citizen's arrest, in which case police would probably transport the person to jail, not as the arrestors, but on the instructions of the property owner.

[skinzterpswizfan]

Well its good to hear that we've got people all over, that's exactly what we need.

[Dorfsmith]

Well its good to hear that we've got people all over, that's exactly what we need.

Yep

[OptionsTrader]

.....he says to warn everyone that soliciting literature in or around the mall is ILLEGAL and should be avoided.

"He says that..."

Thanks for the post, but, really, who cares what your Hillary supporter friend recommends. The fact that he wants us to stop questionable activities makes me want to chip-in more money to the troops in Iowa.

[RonPaulFever]

"He says that..."

Thanks for the post, but, really, who cares what your Hillary supporter friend recommends.

He's seen Ron Paul supporters getting arrested and getting into confrontations with police. I've known the guy for a while, he's honest and has no reason to lie to me.

[integrity]

oh for petes sake!

[Benaiah]

//

[LibertyEagle]

He's seen Ron Paul supporters getting arrested and getting into confrontations with police. I've known the guy for a while, he's honest and has no reason to lie to me.

They're getting arrested?

[robert4rp08]

It's real simple. Just leave when they ask you to. It is private property.

A couple of states do allow solicitation in parking lots, but Iowa isn't one of them. California, Colorado, New Jersey, and Massachusetts do... look up Pruneyard v Robins.

[RonPaulFever]

They're getting arrested?

According to him, yes.

I'll see if I can get him to post here.

[John P Slevin]

The activities are not "questionable". Nor are they illegal.

MOST campaigns do literature distribution at malls, independent grocers, strip malls, self service gas stations, etc.

In Iowa, as in many states, there are laws which side with the private property owner in allowing or forbidding expressive activities, pretty much at the whim of the property owners.

There ALWAYS is a way to gain access at some places.

Be aware of the law (Iowa grants power to the property owner and cops will enforce it with a trespass citation if the person being told to leave does not leave when the cop responds).

Probably, our troops have to do the basics and ask permission. Typically, it is NOT granted, because if they allow one they have to allow all. But, on an individual basis, it typically IS granted.

What is needed here is LOCAL RP supporters asking the guy who manages the store to let our folks be there, subject to their reasonable time, place and manner restrictions.

That is the best solution I can recommend. It usually works if committed Iowans will do this, our troops will not be hassled out there, at least not as much.

[literatim]

I have a feeling the person is making up stuff.

[yongrel]

I have a feeling the person is making up stuff.

I too am hesitant to trust a Hillary supporter to give me reliable info about RP's grass roots.

[John P Slevin]

There are many other great ways to meet and greet voters, distribute literature, etc., which DO NOT have the same access hazards.

Since it seems there are many RP boots on the ground in Iowa, go for state owned or local government owned properties whenever possible.

Private venues which work because no one is there to tell you to leave include laundramats.

Laundramats if worked properly, as a route, are a personal favorite of mine in non access states like Iowa (states which do not protect expressive activities on busy, retail properties). The person simply maps out a list of laundramats and works it like a cycle, going from one to the other then back to the first one, and all over again.

Public sidewalks are excellent, and no sane cop will hassle you there. Pick a main shopping thoroughfare.

If there are heat controlled walkways connecting malls or downtown structures so people can walk above the traffic from one building to another, explore this. Those spots are excellent. Usually, you can gain access but sometimes it takes a lawyer to get an injunction, so that might not work here, but our folks there can try it by simply asking (best place to ask that question is at the local cop shop, the ones who will be called in the event of any dispute...since the aerial walkways go over public thoroughfares---the streets below----a good argument can be made that they are public sidewalks, or that at least our expressive rights weren't waived when the "privately owned" walkway was built.

Post offices are out, by federal law, and backed up by courts...so too are courthouses and jails, essentially every other public facility, like big libraries, are wide open. Libraries can be cool spots if they are busy enough.

Most campuses, public or private, are wide open.

As for shopping centers, where the crowds are biggest, it is possible to work the parking lots and not be noticed for some time. Just work in the lots until asked to leave. Our troops ALWAYS will be asked to leave first. No sane cops ever will arrest a person before politely asking them to cease the activity and leave. If you map out different parking lots at the beginning of your day, you can go in a route from one to the next, going to the next only when you were kicked out of the former.

[tanverenzo]

I am in Iowa, not at the council bluffs camp but there have been no issues.

Only one minor breakout of a fight between ron paul people. It's bound to happen with 300 random college students that have been cut off from their normal habits for a week.

[Moxxar]

How are things, what's the situation? (srry to be taking up valuable time)

[John P Slevin]

Other great spots include local transit stations. Anywhere local bus routes converge are great spots. Stand your ground if asked to leave. This is public property, and you have the right to engage in expressive activities.

IF cops tell you to leave, get names, badge numbers, and make contemporaneous notes as you are speaking to the cop. Let the cop see you make those notes. Cops understand this...cops do not want to be sued, they will only interfere with you if someone at the transit station calls them, and be calm, because most of the time the cop will assist you in your right to be there...when you are told to leave, well, leave.

You don't need the arrest here; you will keep your spots more often than not when they are either state owned or local government owned properties.

ANY line of people is GREAT!

Movie lines, or concert or other ticket buying line is great. Typically this includes public sidewalk area anyway. When it doesn't, just work the line till you are told to leave...like at a movie complex. Usually, the later in the evening you are the better, as there are fewer security guards around to tell you to leave.

[Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice]

I am in Iowa, not at the council bluffs camp but there have been no issues.

Only one minor breakout of a fight between ron paul people. It's bound to happen with 300 random college students that have been cut off from their normal habits for a week.

Idle hands to the devil's work... not much else to do in Iowa other than have sex and fight when you're young LOL

[John P Slevin]

Ah yes, to be young again.

Anyone needing access help can call me anytime...I do this professionally and gladly will assist anyone needing advice on how to handle access problems in Iowa.

I am not a lawyer, I do direct voter contact, including petitions and other direct voter contact.

Iowa basically is a pretty cool state as far as the election laws go, kinda a model other states should use.

Respect private property on this one, ask permission and leave when told to leave is the best I can tell you in this case.

If you are in Iowa, or New Hampshire, call me anytime at 916-635-4662 or email me at directaction@yahoo.com and leave me your contact info.

There's more than one way to skin a rabbit, and I wish all RP troops well.

[VoluntaryMan]

You can SELL campaign material inside the mall, but you can't GIVE it away? Sounds like BS to me. Never accept advice from the competition....ever.

[Ara825]

I love the part of this message that says "Ron Paul people are everywhere"

[John P Slevin]

Don't be distracted. You CANNOT sell anything inside the mall if you show up and try to sell something.

I do this stuff for a living. I know what these people probably have experienced.

The solution is NOT to blame it on some kind of organized obstruction, but on the facts of life.

Iowa does NOT legally protect expressive activities carried out on private property of ANY kind, including large shopping centers or single large operators; only a few states still protect such activiities.

It would be a major mistake for RP supporters to misunderstand this distinction.

There are ways to handle this, it is NOT prejudice on the part of anyone in Iowa, it simply is the law there.

[Nick From Iowa]

I am from Council Bluffs and know many of the police well - I asked one of the officers on duty this evening, and he doesn't recall any 'political people' being arrested lately. I doubt that a Ron Paul supporter would be dumb enough to pull a stunt worthy of being arrested anyway. The CBPD doesn't enjoy going out of their way to harass law abiding citizens. They've got their hands full (mostly with people that I work around each day). So, speaking from experience, and the fact that many of them are former military, who actually aren't so much for the war in Iraq as it is- I doubt they'd go around looking to arrest volunteers for a political organization.

Also - many of the Hillary people around Council Bluffs are PAID staff 'Volunteers'. This past weekend, the local Meetup group arranged a sign holding / New Years March - and there were PAID hillary people out there holding up signs. Ron Paul supporters outnumbered her people 6 to 1 easily.

[N13]

I love the part of this message that says "Ron Paul people are everywhere"

You can read the best and have good eyesight compared to the rest in this thread.

That was the important part.

[Hangly Man]

I love the part of this message that says "Ron Paul people are everywhere"

I see Ron Paul people!

[Xonox]

There Everywhere!