Musk Advocates to Double H-1B Visas

[ClaytonB]

The actual problem has nothing to do with the left, the right, immigration, or the border.

The actual problem has to do with the aggressive prohibition of secession, and our docile ineffectualness in doing anything about it.

If you want to talk about root problems, there you go.

Everything else is just icing on the slavery cake.

While I think that the Federal government must never be beyond the threat of secession (that is, reconstitution through a convention of the States, which is logically equivalent), I don't think that secession would have solved our problems in 1861, nor would it today. The problem is the word you used: slavery. Not lack of secession. Just slavery. The problem that has arisen in the US since 1865 is that the word "slavery" was redefined by the word-sorcerers as something that only happens to black people, involving whips and chains, and so on. The war between the North and South was not actually over whether to do slavery but, rather, how to do slavery. Southern slavery was at least honest -- we are masters, and you are slaves. Today, we all live under the Northern slavery, which uses golden manacles instead of chains, and "social norms" (fashion, opinion, etc.) instead of whips. And it's definitely not racist, it's an equal-opportunity enslaver of all who are not part of The Club. Northern slavery is far more parasitic and creates far more total human suffering than Southern slavery ever could have. The master can only afford to employ so many hands to beat his slaves. The central bank has infinity cash with which it has created a worldwide slave-matrix, inside which we all now live. "A prison you cannot taste, touch or see -- a prison for your mind." Even if you break out of this Matrix, you cannot actually escape, because the Agents are not machines, they're your fellow human-beings who have been converted into mindless remote-control zombies. Hence cars plowing into holiday parades and guns shooting up schools. In an ironic sense, the lying headlines spin reality all the way 360 degrees around so that they're technically true. Might as well just arrest the car and impound the gun, the "operator" is effectively just a robot anyway...

[ClaytonB]

What have the GOP done against immigration while Bush was in office for years?

I can't stand the GOP. MAGA seems to be somewhat OK when it gets its act together, but the GOP are a bunch of lying snakes. Again, there might be some good people in the GOP that are the exception to the rule (especially on the local level), but those who are actually controlling it at the top are using it for even greater evil than they can accomplish through the Dems, because the Dems are at least honest that they are godless heathens, while those who control the GOP put on an act of being good little Sunday church Christians, while worshiping Molech in secret.

[TheTexan]

I don't think that secession would have solved our problems in 1861, nor would it today.

Besides perhaps climate issues, there isn't a political problem on this planet that can't be solved through secession.

By the same token, the global prohibition of secession, ever since Lincoln's aggression, has had profoundly negative impacts on the course history has taken since. Even the existence of the Fed is perhaps a consequence of Lincoln's aggression. The constant growth of centralized power is only possible because we have been placed under complete and total domination and are not allowed recourse via secession.

The problem is the word you used: slavery. Not lack of secession.

These are synonyms. I would define slavery as the use of force to prohibit the termination of a relationship, e.g. secession.

The war between the North and South was not actually over whether to do slavery but, rather, how to do slavery. Southern slavery was at least honest -- we are masters, and you are slaves. Today, we all live under the Northern slavery, which uses golden manacles instead of chains, and "social norms" (fashion, opinion, etc.) instead of whips.

This is correct, and this conditioning has profound impacts on a person's psyche. They become subservient and docile, powerless, and reliant on their masters. This gets back to what I was saying above about the profoundly negative impacts that Lincoln's standard of aggression has set.

Would the Fed have been allowed to exist, or be as powerful as it is today, if we had retained our dignity and strengths of character? Would there have been noone to say, that it's unacceptable and they won't participate in such a scheme?

Hence cars plowing into holiday parades and guns shooting up schools. In an ironic sense, the lying headlines spin reality all the way 360 degrees around so that they're technically true. Might as well just arrest the car and impound the gun, the "operator" is effectively just a robot anyway...

Indeed, these are predictable consequences of living your entire life in a cage.

[Occam's Banana]

Vivek's Critique of American Culture and the Debate Over H-1B Visas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghm2-UrOp1Q
{Robert Murphy | 02 January 2025}

The Bob Murphy Show: Episode 373

Adam Haman joins Bob to discuss the recent “civil war” on the right over the H-1B visa program, with a focus on Vivek Ramaswamy’s critique of American culture.

Mentioned in the Episode and Other Links of Interest:

• The YouTube version of this episode. [see below - OB]
• Vivek Ramaswamy’s controversial tweet on US culture. [see this post - OB]
• Robert Sterling’s stats on the H-1B program.
• An EPI study (based on 2019 data) of the H-1B program.
• The Haman Nature page.
• Help support the Bob Murphy Show.

[Audio (mp3): https://podcasts.captivate.fm/media/...-converted.mp3]

[unknown]

https://x.com/Ronxyz00/status/1874864687579537508

[unknown]

H1B boycott list.

https://pastebin.com/HMArDm2y

[Invisible Man]

https://x.com/Ronxyz00/status/1874864687579537508

First of all, Fuentes didn't even support Trump in 2024.

And what do you expect the Republican party to do? Embrace people like Nick Fuentes and tell the other 99% of the country, and 90+% of Trump voters who aren't white nationalists that this is what they are?

[Madison320]

1 so, you are taking money from the common man and giving it to government.

2 we should deport every foreigner that doesn't pay taxes if they or some private person don't provide for their own needs.
We should deport every foreigner that gets one penny of government money whether they pay taxes or not.

Sorry I wasn't clear. I'm saying if you want to be logically consistent you need to deport any current us citizen who is not paying taxes. They would be more of a burden than an H1B who is paying taxes.

[Madison320]

What do taxes have to do with something that is currently in short supply, say housing? Supply and demand. Increase the population, increase the demand for all of those things.

You're making the broken window fallacy and not looking at both sides of the economic equation.

By hiring cheaper workers you increase productivity which increases supply which brings down prices. Lower prices are left out of your equation.

And besides that I'm against illegal immigration which is the vast majority of the increase in population. I'm guessing H1Bs are a rounding error compared to illegal immigration.

The best libertarian idea I've heard is where you only allow immigrants that are invited and sponsored by existing citizens. So you wouldn't allow any generic immigration at all.

[Invisible Man]

You're making the broken window fallacy and not looking at both sides of the economic equation.

Not only that, he's missing how the very factor he brings up illustrates how the market itself has a mechanism to allocate access to scarce goods, i.e. price. It shouldn't be the government deciding how they are allocated. As cost of living here goes up, the attractiveness of coming to America will go down, until it levels off at the right amount as determined by the market.

[Madison320]

Not only that, he's missing how the very factor he brings up illustrates how the market itself has a mechanism to allocate access to scarce goods, i.e. price. It shouldn't be the government deciding how they are allocated. As cost of living here goes up, the attractiveness of coming to America will go down, until it levels off at the right amount as determined by the market.

Also we need to reduce the huge cost that government places on hiring US citizens.

What do you think of the idea of only allowing immigrants that are "invited" or "sponsored"?

I would think that's the only logical position for an anarchist.

[Madison320]

So you do not believe in market forces? When the economy turns that badly, and people can't live, they will work for less. Why is it that the free market fails to work all of a sudden when H1Bs are discussed?

Within any given market, the market forces can mostly adapt. Remember "there is no such thing as price gouging"?

Yet this H1B argument is akin to saying, "the Earth's free market does not function, thus it requires cheaper, more educated workers from Klingon or Vulcan." It's all about scope. IIRC, a market can refer to any size market, it is not constrained to being only and exactly an Earth global market.

Where did I say the free market doesn't function? Your version of the free market involves "banning" and the initiation of force. Mine doesn't.

[Brian4Liberty]

You're making the broken window fallacy and not looking at both sides of the economic equation.

By hiring cheaper workers you increase productivity which increases supply which brings down prices. Lower prices are left out of your equation.
...

You can only increase supply so much. Economic theories run head-long into reality, and that is the case here. You can keep demolishing strip malls and building 5 story condos, but even that can not keep up with demand, or avoid skyrocketing prices. And who wants to live (forever) in a condo or apartment?

[Snowball]

You're making the broken window fallacy and not looking at both sides of the economic equation.

By hiring cheaper workers you increase productivity which increases supply which brings down prices. Lower prices are left out of your equation.

And besides that I'm against illegal immigration which is the vast majority of the increase in population. I'm guessing H1Bs are a rounding error compared to illegal immigration.

The best libertarian idea I've heard is where you only allow immigrants that are invited and sponsored by existing citizens. So you wouldn't allow any generic immigration at all.

Reverse Psychology.

You only need cheaper prices because there are less American JOBS that pay well.

Self-Created Necessity of No Good.

[Brian4Liberty]

Where did I say the free market doesn't function? Your version of the free market involves "banning" and the initiation of force. Mine doesn't.

You said:

So when the bubble pops and businesses are on life support, you think the answer is for them to pay more for their employees?

I said:

When the economy turns that badly, and people can't live, they will work for less.

My point is that people will work for less in bad economic situations, not more. That is the market at work.

[Brian4Liberty]

Also we need to reduce the huge cost that government places on hiring US citizens.
...

And that is the reality. Arguments about ideals and pure theory are almost meaningless in our current reality. Government interferes in the market at every turn.

Labor supply? Government welfare and safety nets artificially reduces labor supply. Increasing immigration does not address that problem.

Housing supply? Government makes new housing extremely difficult, especially in California, which is where the demand is highest, and the newly imported housing demand enters the US. Let alone the fact that every inch of land is already developed in urban and suburban California.

[Anti Federalist]

wrong thread

[DamianTV]

We actually have TWO big things to consider, immigrants only being ONE. The other is AI. There is a LOT of chatter about the real big threat is that all these immigrant workers are also gonna be replaced by AI. Blue and White collar jobs.

[ClaytonB]

We actually have TWO big things to consider, immigrants only being ONE. The other is AI. There is a LOT of chatter about the real big threat is that all these immigrant workers are also gonna be replaced by AI. Blue and White collar jobs.

Oh yeah, brace yourselves, AI is about to take over everything...

[Brian4Liberty]

Somewhat related. All Democrats, a couple the most hardcore communists in Congress...

https://x.com/RepBera/status/1875253665587765530

[Brian4Liberty]

Musk stepped on a land mine, and instead of contemplating his next move he doubled and tripled down, threw logic and facts out the windows, and became emotional about it, especially since he was being ratioed on his own platform.

Interestingly enough, the battle lines have been similar to the previous Israel battles on the right. Many of the same people that support Israel in everything they do, and scream "anti-Semitism" at every opportunity, are the same people who are now defending H1Bs and screaming "racism" at every opportunity.

Pure coincidence that Musk is announcing major changes to the "algorithm" days after getting ratioed on his own platform...

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1875355425601999255

[TheTexan]

Somewhat related. All Democrats, a couple the most hardcore communists in Congress...

https://x.com/RepBera/status/1875253665587765530

Send them back

[WarriorLiberty]

Pure coincidence that Musk is announcing major changes to the "algorithm" days after getting ratioed on his own platform...

https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1875355425601999255

Why i am not surprised?


Elon Musk has also stopped talking about ESG/DEI Go Figure

[Swordsmyth]

Sorry I wasn't clear. I'm saying if you want to be logically consistent you need to deport any current us citizen who is not paying taxes. They would be more of a burden than an H1B who is paying taxes.

Absolutely false.
Citizens have a right to be here.
Nobody should get welfare, but America belongs to its citizens and doesn't belong to foreigners.

Your globalism is showing.

[Swordsmyth]

First of all, Fuentes didn't even support Trump in 2024.

And what do you expect the Republican party to do? Embrace people like Nick Fuentes and tell the other 99% of the country, and 90+% of Trump voters who aren't white nationalists that this is what they are?

Sorry, but the vast majority of Americans voted for the Trump from 2016 who promised to end H1Bs.

You are the tiny minority.

[Swordsmyth]

You're making the broken window fallacy and not looking at both sides of the economic equation.

By hiring cheaper workers you increase productivity which increases supply which brings down prices. Lower prices are left out of your equation.

And besides that I'm against illegal immigration which is the vast majority of the increase in population. I'm guessing H1Bs are a rounding error compared to illegal immigration.

The best libertarian idea I've heard is where you only allow immigrants that are invited and sponsored by existing citizens. So you wouldn't allow any generic immigration at all.

Utterly false.

All the benefit goes to the globalist ruling class and all of the cost false on the common man.
You are supporting the refeudalization of society and the death of liberty.

Immigration doesn't lower prices, but it does lower wages.

[Swordsmyth]

Not only that, he's missing how the very factor he brings up illustrates how the market itself has a mechanism to allocate access to scarce goods, i.e. price. It shouldn't be the government deciding how they are allocated. As cost of living here goes up, the attractiveness of coming to America will go down, until it levels off at the right amount as determined by the market.

You are advocating that America should be reduced to the lowest common denominator of globalist hellhole.
We built something far better and have a right to preserve it for ourselves and our posterity.

[Swordsmyth]

Somewhat related. All Democrats, a couple the most hardcore communists in Congress...

https://x.com/RepBera/status/1875253665587765530

And that is what most Hindi and other foreigners support.
That alone is an argument for an immigration freeze, mass deportations, and only a trickle of basic immigration when the freeze ends in 20+ years.

[Brian4Liberty]

It will be exceptionally hard for govt and their cronies to keep the mantra "Jobs Americans won't do" or "shortage of good workers" going when 30% of the population is living in tents and standing in soup lines.

https://x.com/reason/status/1875585486967673322

[Anti Federalist]

The best libertarian idea I've heard is where you only allow immigrants that are invited and sponsored by existing citizens. So you wouldn't allow any generic immigration at all.

Coolidge is generally regarded as one of the most libertarian presidents ever.

He was pro business, anti-racist and sound money supporting.

He also signed the 1924 Immigration Act which severely restricted immigration and also created the Border Patrol service.

Repealing the 1965 Hart - Celler Act and returning to the strict requirements of the 1924 act, would undo a lot of the damage done.