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Thread: Musk Advocates to Double H-1B Visas

  1. #1

    Musk Advocates to Double H-1B Visas

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.



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  3. #2
    I didn't now international billionaires act in their own self-interest, did you?

    Tesla Emerges Among Top Employers Of H-1B Visa Holders

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuarta...-visa-holders/
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Musk Advocates to Double H-1B Visas
    And??

    Come on, Count... Are you going to let the implication go silent??

    Like there is no difference between "legal" immigration of talent and an "illegal" invasion at taxpayer expense.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  5. #4

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1872084508834681289
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  6. #5

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1872326323051679941
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  7. #6

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1872146238017339644

    VISH BURRA ☠️ @VishBurra

    Okay since the H1B visa and country caps and the tech sector and India an Indians are all a hot topic right now, I would like to address this as someone who has worked behind the scenes in H1B consultancies in the tech sector and explain EXACTLY why I’m against removing country caps, against the H1B visa, and against the entire canard that we need to import more people from anywhere, let alone India, to do “jobs that the tech sector can’t find Americans to do:

    1) Sourcing Talent- Big companies like Google and Meta have the resources to go and actually pluck out the ACTUAL best talent from these countries, and it’s not hard for them to attract those applicants either because they have the brand recognition. All the best want to work for the best. This isn’t necessarily the problem. The problem is all the no name consultancies and mid size/small size consultancies. They can petition for H1B’s too. How are they sourcing them? Well, they (usually run by Indians) just find a guy from India through their network…who’s willing to work for them and come to America. That’s it. They’ll make sure they have some kind of Bachelors or Masters from some college out there and have the aptitude to learn and understand software that’s it. They aren’t actually “geniuses” or anything like that. They are just willing to work and can learn to “talk the talk” quickly.

    2) Importation- once the prospective worker agrees, the consultancy petitions the American government (USCIS) on their behalf, saying they tried to recruit for the job (job doesn’t exist) in America and couldn’t find anyone, that’s why they need to bring this guy. Key part of this is that the visa is tied to the employer, so if the employer drops the worker, worker has to go back. He can’t just find another job. This is the indentured servitude model.

    3) The Gambit- the consultancy makes sure the guy speak English, and that’s really it. USCIS can’t actually vet the workers on the knowledge they claim they have, especially a vast and sophisticated field like software. USCIS doesn’t actually have a way to tell if someone is lying about their skills or not. All they have to do is convince the USCIS that they can speak English so they can come and immediately start working here.

    4) The Actual Job- once they get the petition for visa approved and they come here, they find out (or already know) they actually don’t have a job here yet. The consultancy now tries to find Corp to Corp contract gigs for the worker. That’s if they actually know the tech and they’re not faking. If they are faking their skills, another workflow is initiated.

    5) Training Day (or months) - the fakers are trained for up to 3-4 months in a software that’s marketable and fetch a good hourly contract rate. Basically a coding Bootcamp style program. They go from zero to superficial knowledge in the tech, just enough to pass an interview with a potential client.

    6) Sell the fake - after training the fake for 3-4 months, the fake is provided with a fake resume claiming 7-8 years of experience. Why? Because that’s how much experience is needed to demand a minimum of $50 per hour on a contract. Does it work? Duh. These workers trained for 3-4 months routinely fool interviewers looking for 7-8 years experience.

    7) The Split- once the job and rate is secured, the consultancy bills at $50 per hour and pays the actual worker the minimum (about $27.50) an hour, and the consultancy pockets the difference. Imagine a 100 H1Bs on a roster doing this for you.

    Does this sound like fraud? Well that’s because it is, from beginning to end.
    ...
    https://x.com/VishBurra/status/1871782594523840753


    Ask yourself, if some Indian fresh off the boat, getting 3-4 months of training is able to fool an American that they are actually a seasoned 7-8 year professional, why can’t we just train Americans to do that? Why import anyone?

    That’s where the indentured servitude model of tying the visa to the employer is highly important. Americans can take the training and leave and take their talents to another company, because Americans have rights and will not tolerate being mistreated. Imported workers on a H1B do not have such rights or a path for recourse. If the H1B worker doesn’t comply or keep their mouth shut, they are sent back.

    This is why Americans aren’t being trained or selected for these jobs, because they can go to another company at any time for any reason. The H1Bs can’t by design.

    Merit has nothing to do with anything, and the Americans who are in charge of gatekeeping the system can’t actually sus out merit or fraud. Even worse, they might be scared of denying applications due to “racism”.
    https://x.com/VishBurra/status/1871782596658761789
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  8. #7
    I like Razib and all the Indian names mentioned here (save for National Review Ramesh perhaps) but please don’t attribute my views on stuff without actually getting it from me. I am vehemently against the H1B system and I’m especially against more of them coming from India.

    Too many of them have a penchant for being complicit in this fraud, and then well meaning Indians wonder why anti-Indian sentiment is so rampant. It’s festering because we are facilitating this fraud and crying racism at anyone who fights against it. I prefer not to lie in that bed my fellow Indians are making for me.
    https://x.com/VishBurra/status/1871782603717787875
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  9. #8

    https://x.com/USAB4L/status/1872335183711723910
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  11. #9
    H1B immigrants from where?

    https://x.com/iamyesyouareno/status/1871970849391333822

    The whole narrative is absurd on its face - at the same time the USA was both founded on White supremacy, slavery, and genocide, yet always meant to be a place that infinity Africans, Indians, and South Americans could come for a "better life"? - Unknown

  12. #10
    America is not an economic zone.

    It is, or was, a nation of ideals that were specific and well stated.

    That "proposition" has been smashed.
    The whole narrative is absurd on its face - at the same time the USA was both founded on White supremacy, slavery, and genocide, yet always meant to be a place that infinity Africans, Indians, and South Americans could come for a "better life"? - Unknown

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    H1B immigrants from where?
    ...

    https://x.com/HonorAndDaring/status/1872148327401472267


    https://x.com/arctotherium42/status/1871801622059495846
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  14. #12
    We Need Fewer, Not More, Worker Visas



    There's an important debate raging on social media about the tech bros being brought into the Trump administration and their plans to expand immigration. I explain that what they want to continue doing with college educated workers is the exact same thing they've already done with non-college educated fields; namely, drive down wages and culturally gerrymander Americans out of jobs.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  15. #13

  16. #14
    https://x.com/AntiFeder1776/status/1872397096198033819

    The whole narrative is absurd on its face - at the same time the USA was both founded on White supremacy, slavery, and genocide, yet always meant to be a place that infinity Africans, Indians, and South Americans could come for a "better life"? - Unknown

  17. #15

    https://x.com/USAB4L/status/1872397436918084032
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  18. #16

    https://x.com/USAB4L/status/1872402104364802321

    Jeremy Carl @realJeremyCarl

    This is a revealing take from @VivekGRamaswamy, and probably (judging from other comments from others on X and my own extensive personal experience with Indian Americans in Silicon Valley) fairly representative.

    Before I get into why it is fundamentally wrong in its most important particulars, let me give it its limited due: Yes, the most talented American kids probably need to work harder academically. Our public school system, especially, is generally a disaster, which I can say with some confidence having five kids currently in it We need to fix it, and universal school choice will do a lot to get us there.

    However, having competed successfully with the top of the talent stack (my wife and I have five top-tier Ivy League degrees between us) and having seen what that looks like up close and made the choice to largely opt-out for our own five kids, I think Vivek seems to have a misapprehension about the roots of American success.

    I knew lots of parents who made their kids *grind* and yes, I did look down on them and did not aspire to that for my own kids. I did this for many reasons-- first, I saw the massive burnout among such kids, even the "successful" ones who I went to school with. I didn't want that to happen to my kids. A career is an important part of most people's lives. But it is not, with rare, rare exceptions, life itself. And you don't need to train most people, even at the top of your talent stack, to be those rare, rare exceptions.

    Second, countries that push children to an extreme, like South Korea and China, have miserable kids and collapsing fertility. And the next generation is ultimately what we're all playing for.

    Third, the elite culture of these countries, (including India, where I have lived) often encourages ruthlessness, lack of ethics, and rampant cheating in a desperate quest to get ahead. This ultimately bleeds over to the professional world, where IP theft and research fraud from countries like China is rampant. Of course, we're not perfect in this regard either, but we're a heck of a lot better than our competition and it's a key comparative advantage for America.

    Fourth, I don't think the kind of training that Vivek seems to aspire to has created the dynamism that powered success in Silicon Valley or anywhere else in America. Yes, some of the people from grind culture played useful technical roles-- but these companies were often founded by brilliant dropouts and iconoclasts-- not the guy who always listened to his teacher, studies eight hours a day, and did #1 on the test.

    America's willingness to embrace dynamism and risk-- to have a society in which the rule of the law is honored (though Democrats have badly eroded this in recent years) and our unique culture, ultimately derived from Europe but strengthened with our own unique pioneering American qualities, has made us so successful.

    It's why far, far more people want to come here than anywhere else, and why our tech companies are far more successful than those anywhere else-- and this was true before we had mass H-1Bs-- and I am confident it will be true after we shut the door on this ill-advised policy.

    What Vivek is proposing, however sincerely intentioned, would destroy the things that actually make America great.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  20. #17

    https://x.com/USAB4L/status/1872471220396216454
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  21. #18
    I can see a brief moratorium being placed on H1B and similar visas while we overhaul the immigration system to actually be subject to the will of WTP. But I see no reason to cap the number of people immigrating here so long as they are going through a proper vetting and naturalization process that would catch things like fake degrees or other fake qualifications. We want the best people here, the best workers, the best thinkers, the best artists, etc. Let them be here, and we will be the best in the world. If we enforce the Constitution, the ones who are only coming for nefarious reasons will quickly find out they've made a mistake, even if they manage to "sneak in". So, the real issue is obeying the Constitution, not the bulk number of legal immigrants.

    And we need to halt all illegal immigration forthwith. I didn't understand the importance of that issue pre-2020. Now I do.
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    I can see a brief moratorium being placed on H1B and similar visas while we overhaul the immigration system to actually be subject to the will of WTP.
    Trump's proposed cabinet is the wealthiest in the history of the country. With few exceptions, their money comes from a system which relies on employing foreign-born indentured servants in place of US citizens and permanent residents.

    Do you believe that this group of people plan to destroy their own livelihoods?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Do you believe that this group of people plan to destroy their own livelihoods?
    The accusation is that they are businessmen using standard business practices?
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  24. #21

    https://x.com/VivekGRamaswamy/status...63381891883355
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Trump's proposed cabinet is the wealthiest in the history of the country.
    Musk and Vivek are not Cabinet level positions. What evidence do you have that "Trump's proposed cabinet is the wealthiest in the history of the country."? I doubt Pete Hegseth, Tulsi Gabbard or Marco Rubio are driving that average higher.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  26. #23
    Until last year I was working for an American company with international offices, and I was one of the maybe two dozen people in a company of 200 that were white and grew up in America.
    After a year of being completely ignored by my supervisor (an Indian guy living in London) and having people with way less experience and time in the company given all the new opportunities (only one one of whom was born in America), I set my LinkedIn profile to "open to work".

    Literally hours later I got contacted by a VP wanting to talk about why I was trying to leave. I told him 1) my supervisor literally hasn't talked to me in the last six months, 2) every higher responsibility I used to have has been taken away and I've been put back on taking front line tickets, 3) you always lay people off in October and I'm leaving myself runway to find something else because dude, I can read the room. (I didn't add 'dude what the $#@! you can spy on my linkedin but you can't find out whether your departments are being held together?')

    He swore up and down that's not what he wanted to have happen and it certainly wasn't right and could we talk about it more. We never connected again but I did put a bunch of effort into a presentation to go over some of the fundamental problems of why it $#@!in' sucked to work in that department and ways we could mitigate them - and number 1 on the list was to demonstrate all the superstar employees they'd had over the last 20 years that they literally took off the street and allowed to train on the job, as opposed to requiring masters degrees and 10 years experience.

    I don't have any evidence anyone read any of it. I ended up giving them 2 weeks notice after 23 years working there, and half of the second week was Thanksgiving break. I don't regret it.

    Before I left, more than one H1B holder told me how envious they were that I was able to just walk. Some others weren't envious - but congratulated me on having the courage to GTFO.
    WHAT THE F*** DID YOU THINK​ WAS GOING TO HAPPEN???

  27. #24
    Oh, and one other thing - I'm tired of hearing about all these industrious foreigners because Americans *ARE* lazy, and that is a GOOD thing.

    Laziness is why people do something right the first time. Because they don't want to come back and $#@! with it.

    Laziness is why people spend 45 minutes fixing something that only takes 30 seconds to work around. It doesn't matter that you only have to do it three times a week - the unwillingness to come back and $#@! with it is why it's getting fixed.

    Laziness is why people document what they're doing. It's so they don't have to deal with you figuring it out - so they can say RTFM and go back to posting here.

    Laziness is essentially why people come up with efficiency tweaks. Sure, there are corporate goofballs who profit off of it but most of them boil down to a lazy dude looking at his life and thinking 'holy $#@! if I have to do this process this inefficiently for one more day I'm going to scream'.

    Every good habit that I have seen in coworkers for the last quarter century has been due to good old fashioned American laziness.

    When you put hardworking industrious Indians on a task, and they can't figure it out after staying awake for two days and ask the American who has been there twice as long for a consult, the American is the one who says 'what the hell are you doing troubleshooting a third party product for our customer?' I have literally told people in India to be lazy in the past.
    WHAT THE F*** DID YOU THINK​ WAS GOING TO HAPPEN???



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  29. #25
    I'd rather green cards to H-1B. If they want to come here, work and make money they should become a part of our country, not take the money and run.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    The accusation is that they are businessmen using standard business practices?
    There's no accusation. I asked you a question.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  31. #27
    Looks like this causing a mini war on twitter.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Oh, and one other thing - I'm tired of hearing about all these industrious foreigners because Americans *ARE* lazy, and that is a GOOD thing.

    Laziness is why people do something right the first time. Because they don't want to come back and $#@! with it.

    Laziness is why people spend 45 minutes fixing something that only takes 30 seconds to work around. It doesn't matter that you only have to do it three times a week - the unwillingness to come back and $#@! with it is why it's getting fixed.

    Laziness is why people document what they're doing. It's so they don't have to deal with you figuring it out - so they can say RTFM and go back to posting here.

    Laziness is essentially why people come up with efficiency tweaks. Sure, there are corporate goofballs who profit off of it but most of them boil down to a lazy dude looking at his life and thinking 'holy $#@! if I have to do this process this inefficiently for one more day I'm going to scream'.

    Every good habit that I have seen in coworkers for the last quarter century has been due to good old fashioned American laziness.

    When you put hardworking industrious Indians on a task, and they can't figure it out after staying awake for two days and ask the American who has been there twice as long for a consult, the American is the one who says 'what the hell are you doing troubleshooting a third party product for our customer?' I have literally told people in India to be lazy in the past.
    It's counter-intuitive but you're right.

    It's a close cousin to "greed is good".

    The whole narrative is absurd on its face - at the same time the USA was both founded on White supremacy, slavery, and genocide, yet always meant to be a place that infinity Africans, Indians, and South Americans could come for a "better life"? - Unknown

  33. #29
    https://old.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/1hmg8yn/elon_musk_wants_to_double_h1b_visas/


    .
    Last edited by unknown; 12-27-2024 at 12:54 AM.

  34. #30
    Some interesting comments in the reddit thread above.

    Claims that Musk kept most of the H1B guys at Twitter simply because of leverage, that they risked deportation should they do something to warrant dismissal.

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