Musk Advocates to Double H-1B Visas

[TheTexan]

So when the bubble pops and businesses are on life support, you think the answer is for them to pay more for their employees?

You're not considering the fact that companies that are losing money GO OUT OF BUSINESS!!! You guys all act like that's impossible.

This is true for jobs and industries that are more integrated into the global economy, than the domestic economy.

Jobs that cater primarily to the domestic economy would not be as directly affected.

My preferred solution is to disconnect from the global economy entirely. It is proving to be a drain on our resources, than providing any advantage to us. This country became the greatest country in the world based on its domestic economy and its domestic culture. If we had never integrated into the global economy (to this severe of a degree), we wouldn't be having these problems and we'd all be driving flying cars right now.

The recent massive increase of global integration (both culturally and economically) has only done us harm. Instead of economic growth and progress, we are being reduced to the lowest common denominator culturally and economically.

[Madison320]

No, I don't think that is necessary.

If the feds did their constitutional duty and protected the nation from invasion, it would be a moot issue anyway.

Caveat: that question pre-supposes that you hired an invader that was hanging around outside of Home Depot looking for day work.

It is an entirely different story to lobby and facilitate and grease the skids to bring them here in the first place.

So then would you allow businesses to hire illegals as well?

[unknown]

Hire deez nutz.

[ClaytonB]

An immigration freeze is not tyranny and it is required to sort out the invasion and disruption that has been unleashed for multiple generations now.

I'll edit to clarify -- I don't mean to say you are promoting it, just that promoting it doesn't work because it starts from some correct insights (social/cultural degeneration, etc.) and then goes to an extreme that is obviously wrong. That's essentially what you're doing... starting from some correct insights and then going to an extreme that is obviously wrong in an attempt to shift the Overton window. But when you overshoot, you just end up having no impact at all or becoming a villain of history, as the Nazis did.

Economic immigration is not in America's interests,

OK, now that's a specific tangible claim we can argue about. It is not at all obvious that zero economic immigration is in America's interests. I will grant that current levels are obviously not in our interests. But I also think it's a tough case to make that zero economic immigration is the only option that can possibly be in America's interests. Hiring even one worker from overseas and allowing them to apply to immigrate and naturalize while working here is automatically and necessarily harmful to our interests? I just don't see that.

Anything else required can be handled on a very limited and TEMPORARY basis, if a Taiwanese company is going to set up a chip factory here we can allow them to send their engineers for a few years to train their American replacements and then go home.

Once again, the net effect of this is that you're basically saying, "Only try to immigrate to America if you're rich. Otherwise, we're not interested." H1B allows young, middle-class "up-and-comers" to be able to immigrate... exactly the demographic we would want to immigrate, rather than rusty old heiresses with nothing to contribute except they can afford to live the high life here while waiting to die, while keeping their fortune safely overseas. This is the kind of immigration policy of Japan. How's that working out for them? (Graying population, imminent population collapse, massive silent cultural destruction, etc.)

[ClaytonB]

So, you're a fraud denier now too?

Of course not, but there are obviously some in MAGA who are vastly overestimating Trump's mandate. Yes, Trump has a mandate, but that mandate is about the things that the Biden administration was doing particularly wrong. There were too many H1Bs during Trump 45 as well as during Biden. So, it's a problem that needs to be fixed, but let's not act like it's THE issue that formed Trumps 2024 mandate. And that's important, because if the Project 2025 types are allowed to hijack the actual Trump mandate and substitute their own little pet wish-lists, the whole mandate itself will be lost, and 2028 will just be another pendulum-swing back to the Obama-wing of US politics.

[TheTexan]

H1B allows young, middle-class "up-and-comers" to be able to immigrate... exactly the demographic we would want to immigrate

Is that the royal we

[TheTexan]

This is the kind of immigration policy of Japan. How's that working out for them? (Graying population, imminent population collapse, massive silent cultural destruction, etc.)

Cultural destruction? What do you mean by that?

[Madison320]

This is true for jobs and industries that are more integrated into the global economy, than the domestic economy.

Jobs that cater primarily to the domestic economy would not be as directly affected.

My preferred solution is to disconnect from the global economy entirely. It is proving to be a drain on our resources, than providing any advantage to us. This country became the greatest country in the world based on its domestic economy and its domestic culture. If we had never integrated into the global economy (to this severe of a degree), we wouldn't be having these problems and we'd all be driving flying cars right now.

The recent massive increase of global integration (both culturally and economically) has only done us harm. Instead of economic growth and progress, we are being reduced to the lowest common denominator culturally and economically.

Would you allow businesses to outsource as long as no one crossed the border?

[TheTexan]

Would you allow businesses to outsource as long as no one crossed the border?

I would allow businesses to outsource to countries that have a higher wage than us*. Otherwise no.

(*So we could be a drain on their resources. )

[WarriorLiberty]

Elon Musk gets roasted by Bernie Sanders

https://x.com/SenSanders/status/1874918027982172626

[TheTexan]

Elon Musk gets roasted by Bernie Sanders

https://x.com/SenSanders/status/1874918027982172626

LOL even Bernie gets this one right

[ClaytonB]

Cultural destruction? What do you mean by that?

Japanese culture is basically eating itself alive:

[ClaytonB]

LOL even Bernie gets this one right

Red flag, rather.

[TheTexan]

Japanese culture is basically eating itself alive:

Valid point but what's being described is a global epidemic in all first world countries as a consequence of technology. Immigration certainly isn't gonna solve that issue.

Aside from the growing impacts of technology, Japan's culture otherwise appears to me to be very healthy.

And I don't really consider graying population and "population collapse" to be long term concerns.

Japan is probably in a better state right now to survive the global "diversity" crisis that is developing in most first world countries, than nearly anybody else.

[ClaytonB]

Valid point but what's being described is a global epidemic in all first world countries as a consequence of technology. Immigration certainly isn't gonna solve that issue.

Aside from the growing impacts of technology, Japan's culture otherwise appears to me to be very healthy.

And I don't really consider graying population and "population collapse" to be long term concerns.

Japan is probably in a better state right now to survive the global "diversity" crisis that is developing in most first world countries, than nearly anybody else.

America: People moving in and out of the country for over a century, nobody really cares

No one:

The Left: Let's use "diversity" as a cover for demographic warfare and bring in a flood of illegal aliens to destroy American culture and hijack the political system.

The Right: Let's not talk about what the Left is really up to behind the scenes at all because we're a bunch of fraidy cats and they might call us "cOnTHpIrAthY THeoRiTHs". Instead, let's use their insane tyranny as a pretext for our own insane tyranny where we completely lock down the borders, nothing and no one goes in or out.

Both wings are a bunch of tyrants. And at least the Left has the honesty to not try to pretend to be pro-freedom.

Ron Paul warned us about border fences. Yes, we need a strong border. But if you're building fences, that's a sign that something has gone deeply, deeply wrong in your country, and the border invasion is just a symptom of that. Stop treating symptoms, start addressing the actual problems...

[Brian4Liberty]

But don't H1Bs pay taxes?

And wouldn't we need to deport everyone that doesn't pay taxes to be logically consistent?

What do taxes have to do with something that is currently in short supply, say housing? Supply and demand. Increase the population, increase the demand for all of those things.

[Brian4Liberty]

So when the bubble pops and businesses are on life support, you think the answer is for them to pay more for their employees?

You're not considering the fact that companies that are losing money GO OUT OF BUSINESS!!! You guys all act like that's impossible.

So you do not believe in market forces? When the economy turns that badly, and people can't live, they will work for less. Why is it that the free market fails to work all of a sudden when H1Bs are discussed?

Within any given market, the market forces can mostly adapt. Remember "there is no such thing as price gouging"?

Yet this H1B argument is akin to saying, "the Earth's free market does not function, thus it requires cheaper, more educated workers from Klingon or Vulcan." It's all about scope. IIRC, a market can refer to any size market, it is not constrained to being only and exactly an Earth global market.

[Brian4Liberty]

Valid point but what's being described is a global epidemic in all first world countries as a consequence of technology. Immigration certainly isn't gonna solve that issue.

Aside from the growing impacts of technology, Japan's culture otherwise appears to me to be very healthy.

And I don't really consider graying population and "population collapse" to be long term concerns.

Japan is probably in a better state right now to survive the global "diversity" crisis that is developing in most first world countries, than nearly anybody else.

But you see, you need to pick and choose what aspects are static and which are dynamic according to which case you want to make. So if you want to make the "population collapse" argument, it is OK, and required, to make the assumption that the reproduction rate is fixed exactly at the point where it makes your case.

Or don't you believe in free markets? Follow the science, man!

[TheTexan]

Stop treating symptoms, start addressing the actual problems...

The actual problem has nothing to do with the left, the right, immigration, or the border.

The actual problem has to do with the aggressive prohibition of secession, and our docile ineffectualness in doing anything about it.

If you want to talk about root problems, there you go.

Everything else is just icing on the slavery cake.

[Swordsmyth]

Assuming that is true, the test is going to be profits. This decision will either be rewarded or punished in the market. There is no need for the government to intervene and tell IBM shareholders that it knows how to manage their money better than the people they chose to delegate that to.

No, the test is that an H1B weakened America for racial imperialism.

[Swordsmyth]

Should it be illegal for everyone to hire foreigners, or just business owners?

For example if you hire a mexican here illegally to cut your grass, should that be a crime? What would the penalty be?

If a foreigner comes in legally through the regular immigration quota (which should be very small) then anyone may hire him.
It should be illegal to import foreigners specifically to undermine Americans.
And in this case traitors imported a foreign agent whose specific goal was to steal jobs from better qualified whites and give them to his unqualified racial brethren.

[Swordsmyth]

What do you propose that does not result in hordes of third world brown goo eating out the core of this nation and turning this into a rape and shi+ in the street culture like western Europe?

That's what they want.
Some because they hate America and Americans, others because they can make a quick buck on it.

[Swordsmyth]

Lack of a right to keep and bear arms, and lack of property rights.

And they lack those because a culture that doesn't care for them is dominant there.
You are trying to import that culture here.

[Swordsmyth]

But don't H1Bs pay taxes?

And wouldn't we need to deport everyone that doesn't pay taxes to be logically consistent?

1 so, you are taking money from the common man and giving it to government.

2 we should deport every foreigner that doesn't pay taxes if they or some private person don't provide for their own needs.
We should deport every foreigner that gets one penny of government money whether they pay taxes or not.

[Swordsmyth]

So when the bubble pops and businesses are on life support, you think the answer is for them to pay more for their employees?

You're not considering the fact that companies that are losing money GO OUT OF BUSINESS!!! You guys all act like that's impossible.

The market will sort it out.
And the working and middle classes will regain some of the share of the pie they've been cheated out of for multiple generations.

[WarriorLiberty]

Red flag, rather.

What have the GOP done against immigration while Bush was in office for years?

[Swordsmyth]

I'll edit to clarify -- I don't mean to say you are promoting it, just that promoting it doesn't work because it starts from some correct insights (social/cultural degeneration, etc.) and then goes to an extreme that is obviously wrong. That's essentially what you're doing... starting from some correct insights and then going to an extreme that is obviously wrong in an attempt to shift the Overton window. But when you overshoot, you just end up having no impact at all or becoming a villain of history, as the Nazis did.

Nonsense, it is obviously right, and nothing like the NAZIs.
I AM promoting an immigration freeze for at least 20 years, I'm not just shifting the window.

OK, now that's a specific tangible claim we can argue about. It is not at all obvious that zero economic immigration is in America's interests. I will grant that current levels are obviously not in our interests. But I also think it's a tough case to make that zero economic immigration is the only option that can possibly be in America's interests. Hiring even one worker from overseas and allowing them to apply to immigrate and naturalize while working here is automatically and necessarily harmful to our interests? I just don't see that.

It's just as obvious as replacing hiring servants with healthy exercise.

Once again, the net effect of this is that you're basically saying, "Only try to immigrate to America if you're rich. Otherwise, we're not interested." H1B allows young, middle-class "up-and-comers" to be able to immigrate... exactly the demographic we would want to immigrate, rather than rusty old heiresses with nothing to contribute except they can afford to live the high life here while waiting to die, while keeping their fortune safely overseas. This is the kind of immigration policy of Japan. How's that working out for them? (Graying population, imminent population collapse, massive silent cultural destruction, etc.)

If the regular immigration system is biased then fix that.
And Japan's immigration policy is working out well for them, the only reason they still have a Japanese population and culture is because they don't allow much immigration.
Their problems are caused by their economic central planning that uses everything but immigration (so far) to suppress the working and middle classes and steal all the wealth for the top .1-1%.

[Swordsmyth]

Of course not, but there are obviously some in MAGA who are vastly overestimating Trump's mandate. Yes, Trump has a mandate, but that mandate is about the things that the Biden administration was doing particularly wrong. There were too many H1Bs during Trump 45 as well as during Biden. So, it's a problem that needs to be fixed, but let's not act like it's THE issue that formed Trumps 2024 mandate. And that's important, because if the Project 2025 types are allowed to hijack the actual Trump mandate and substitute their own little pet wish-lists, the whole mandate itself will be lost, and 2028 will just be another pendulum-swing back to the Obama-wing of US politics.

False.
That mandate is huge and is about 2016 Trump who promised to end H1Bs.
Trump got more votes in 2020 than in 2016, Biden just manufactured tens of millions of votes.
Kamala lost because they couldn't manufacture enough this time, but they still manufactured a huge number.

[Swordsmyth]

Would you allow businesses to outsource as long as no one crossed the border?

Sure, if they don't mind paying a large tariff to get goods into our country.

[Swordsmyth]

America: People moving in and out of the country for over a century, nobody really cares

No one:

The Left: Let's use "diversity" as a cover for demographic warfare and bring in a flood of illegal aliens to destroy American culture and hijack the political system.

The Right: Let's not talk about what the Left is really up to behind the scenes at all because we're a bunch of fraidy cats and they might call us "cOnTHpIrAthY THeoRiTHs". Instead, let's use their insane tyranny as a pretext for our own insane tyranny where we completely lock down the borders, nothing and no one goes in or out.

Both wings are a bunch of tyrants. And at least the Left has the honesty to not try to pretend to be pro-freedom.

Ron Paul warned us about border fences. Yes, we need a strong border. But if you're building fences, that's a sign that something has gone deeply, deeply wrong in your country, and the border invasion is just a symptom of that. Stop treating symptoms, start addressing the actual problems...

False, everyone cared, that's why Coolidge imposed tight quotas that only allowed a trickle of immigration from culturally compatible countries.
Immigration has been an issue since Independence, and it has been our enemies that keep trying to flood immigrants in to change the country.