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Thread: The US govt can barely build Naval vessels in the US anymore:

  1. #1

    Post The US govt can barely build Naval vessels in the US anymore:

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  3. #2
    Yet another reason why these insane halfwits that are running this $#@! show have no clue about what they are doing.

    Trying to start a world war when we can no longer build warships on a bloated, cost overrunning federal budget, let alone the support ships required.

    Or anything else needed for a multi theater war.
    The whole narrative is absurd on its face - at the same time the USA was both founded on White supremacy, slavery, and genocide, yet always meant to be a place that infinity Africans, Indians, and South Americans could come for a "better life"? - Unknown

  4. #3
    Doesn't matter. Wars aren't fought with ships anymore.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Doesn't matter. Wars aren't fought with ships anymore.
    What are they fought with?
    The whole narrative is absurd on its face - at the same time the USA was both founded on White supremacy, slavery, and genocide, yet always meant to be a place that infinity Africans, Indians, and South Americans could come for a "better life"? - Unknown

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Doesn't matter. Wars aren't fought with ships anymore.
    LOL
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  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    What are they fought with?
    Cruise missles. Ships aren't as necessary to project global power anymore. First shots of the next world war will be in space. Knocking out satellites and then high elevation air bursts to take down power grid and internet.

  8. #7
    As expected, guess plan was to outsource to cicoms wile at war w. cicoms . Sounds like fed planning ability. Were more worried about q u e e r s
    Last edited by oyarde; 12-25-2024 at 04:11 PM.
    Do something Danke

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Cruise missles. Ships aren't as necessary to project global power anymore. First shots of the next world war will be in space. Knocking out satellites and then high elevation air bursts to take down power grid and internet.
    Yes, cruise missiles are known for their ability to occupy street corners.

    Who needs a navy when you keep provoking wars on the other side of the world?



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt4Liberty View Post
    Yes, cruise missiles are known for their ability to occupy street corners.

    Who needs a navy when you keep provoking wars on the other side of the world?
    No need to occupy and invade countries anymore. Air burst nuke out high altitude. Several days without power and internet and the populations will turn on each other. Within a month the survivors will be begging to be subjugated. That's what the world is now.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Cruise missles. Ships aren't as necessary to project global power anymore. First shots of the next world war will be in space. Knocking out satellites and then high elevation air bursts to take down power grid and internet.
    Ships are inherently cruise missile platforms, and equally important, cruise missile countermeasures.

    Ships are gonna maintain their importance.

    Aircraft carriers, maybe less so.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Doesn't matter. Wars aren't fought with ships anymore.
    Current conflicts still are; but face it, for current adversaries, they're overkill on the order of taking out a mosquito with a hand grenade. Overpriced for what you're doing with it. As long as the US is up against mere nuisances (you know, the ones screaming at us to keep our filthy hands off their deserts), the current naval force is a McClaren that you only drive to the local market and back. Even at that, though, they're only good in the open ocean. I posted recently about the USS Gettysburg downing a US F/A-18 in the Red Sea - there just isn't enough time to react in close quarters while doing due diligence.

    For future conflicts though (WWII-size conflicts with another superpower), they are insufficient to the task - on the order of how Patton described the Maginot line ("Permanent fortifications such as the Maginot line are a tribute to man's stupidity"). Ooooooo, they're 4,000 miles away and cruising at us at 25 knots; what shall we ever do?

    One of the naval fighting forces that does make sense, though, are submarines. Basically undetectable. They can crawl within 20 miles of shore and don't even need to surface to fire a hyper-sonic missile. They're also the only part of the nuclear triad that still makes any sense.

    Callout to @XNavyNuke to get him to weigh in.
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 12-25-2024 at 08:52 PM.
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  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Ships are inherently cruise missile platforms, and equally important, cruise missile countermeasures.

    Ships are gonna maintain their importance.

    Aircraft carriers, maybe less so.
    Hypersonic missles with world wide reach make destroyers obsolete.

    It's not the 40's anymore. It wouldn't be like WW2. You don't need ships. People are soft and supply chains are long. All a potential invading power has to do is knock out internet and power. Everything will descend into chaos in a few days, a first world country could be taken out in a month. The population would starve and kill each other without the need for an opposing power to even set foot on land, no less fire a shot.
    Last edited by 69360; 12-25-2024 at 09:51 PM.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Hypersonic missles with world wide reach make destroyers obsolete.

    It's not the 40's anymore. It wouldn't be like WW2. You don't need ships. People are soft and supply chains are long. All a potential invading power has to do is knock out internet and power. Everything will descend into chaos in a few days, a first world country could be taken out in a month. The population would starve and kill each other without the need for an opposing power to even set foot on land, no less fire a shot.
    Agree with this. Hypersonic missiles are the game-changer. We spent our money on designing a stealth destoyer. Russia spent its money on a missile that will whiz right over that destroyer and onto its target before the radar officer even gets out of his bunk.

    That's what irks me about people clamoring for the Ukraine war. As if Russia is still some backwoods country using spears and arrows.

    We're not dealing with Iraqi T-55s.
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    This is getting silly.
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    It started silly.
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    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Cruise missles. Ships aren't as necessary to project global power anymore. First shots of the next world war will be in space. Knocking out satellites and then high elevation air bursts to take down power grid and internet.
    And who do you think makes all the components for those missiles?

    And how do you suppose they get here?
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 12-26-2024 at 03:45 PM.
    The whole narrative is absurd on its face - at the same time the USA was both founded on White supremacy, slavery, and genocide, yet always meant to be a place that infinity Africans, Indians, and South Americans could come for a "better life"? - Unknown

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Hypersonic missles with world wide reach make destroyers obsolete.

    It's not the 40's anymore. It wouldn't be like WW2. You don't need ships. People are soft and supply chains are long. All a potential invading power has to do is knock out internet and power. Everything will descend into chaos in a few days, a first world country could be taken out in a month. The population would starve and kill each other without the need for an opposing power to even set foot on land, no less fire a shot.
    Exactly right.

    And those supply chains are dependent on sea lanes.

    When the Germans essentially shut down trans Atlantic shipping to the US in 1940, the US did not collapse because we made and grew most everything we needed.

    That is no longer the case.

    Without sea trade and the power to protect that trade, this nation would collapse in weeks.

    You are right, that may be impossible to do any longer.

    Which is why we should be doing everything possible to produce, grow and manufacture what we need and want here.
    The whole narrative is absurd on its face - at the same time the USA was both founded on White supremacy, slavery, and genocide, yet always meant to be a place that infinity Africans, Indians, and South Americans could come for a "better life"? - Unknown

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Hypersonic missles with world wide reach make destroyers obsolete.

    It's not the 40's anymore. It wouldn't be like WW2. You don't need ships. People are soft and supply chains are long. All a potential invading power has to do is knock out internet and power. Everything will descend into chaos in a few days, a first world country could be taken out in a month. The population would starve and kill each other without the need for an opposing power to even set foot on land, no less fire a shot.
    And what do you think tracks & intercepts those hypersonic missiles? Ships with radar & hypersonic missiles.

    Hypersonic missiles changes nothing. If anything, it makes ships all the more important, because land and space-based radar & countermeasures alone are not able to track & intercept hypersonic missiles on their own.

    If we were to rely on land (and space) based countermeasures, any attempt at interception would be too little, too late.
    Last edited by TheTexan; 12-26-2024 at 12:26 AM.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    One of the naval fighting forces that does make sense, though, are submarines. Basically undetectable. They can crawl within 20 miles of shore and don't even need to surface to fire a hyper-sonic missile. They're also the only part of the nuclear triad that still makes any sense.
    Yes, and good luck destroying a sub with a cruise missile.

    You know what does take out submarines? Ships. (including submarines)

    Without ships, we'd have enemy submarines right on our borders.

    Ships are not going to become irrelevant any time soon. Manned ships will become irrelevant over the coming decades, but there will always be ships.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    One of the naval fighting forces that does make sense, though, are submarines. Basically undetectable. They can crawl within 20 miles of shore and don't even need to surface to fire a hyper-sonic missile. They're also the only part of the nuclear triad that still makes any sense.
    Submarines are undetectable, for now. Within the next 50 years however, the ocean will be filled with millions of drones, making it impossible for any kind of submarine to remain hidden.

    Everyone talks about the space race, but the real prize is whoever wins the race to conquer the ocean with drones. Dominance of the sea is arguably much more important than dominance of space, as missiles can be launched from the ocean into space, but as of yet, torpedos can't really be launched from space into the ocean. (and certainly not in the quantities that would be required to counter the drones)

    Whoever wins the sea, wins space. And whoever wins space, wins the world.
    Last edited by TheTexan; 12-26-2024 at 12:46 AM.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Doesn't matter. Wars aren't fought with ships anymore.
    LOL
    The notion that imperium can be effectively or efficiently projected (let alone maintained) without significant naval power across a planet 70% of which is covered with water is utterly absurd. I don't give a damn how badly you can bomb some unfortunate patch of land into utter ruin, just by using satellites or missiles or such - keeping, controlling, and/or exploiting that land afterwards (which is the whole point and object of war) is a completely different matter.

    I would also note that the concept denoted by the term "naval vessels" encompasses a hell of a lot more than just war ships designed for immediate, tactical, range-of-the-moment offense and attack. As everyone from Sun Tzu to Clausewitz (including any general or admiral with a minimal level of competence) could tell you, strategic logistics is one of the most critical factors in winning wars (and then in keeping - or at least controlling and/or exploiting - what you've won afterwards).

    So unless those fancy satellites (or other high-tech gewgaws) come equipped with Star-Trek-style "transporter" beams capable of "beaming" troops, personnel and supplies around the planet, then "naval vessels" are indeed going to continue to be an absolutely and extremely important element in any endeavor by any nation-state to project and maintain force around the globe - and any such nation-state whose ability to produce and maintain such "naval vessels" has been significantly compromised is going to have a serious problem on its hands.
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 12-26-2024 at 01:48 PM.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    So unless those fancy satellites (or other high-tech gewgaws) come equipped with Star-Trek-style "transporter" beams capable of "beaming" troops, personnel and supplies around the planet, then "naval vessels" are indeed going to continue to be an absolutely and extremely important element in any endeavor by any nation-state to project and maintain force around the globe - and any such nation-state whose ability to produce and maintain such "naval vessels" has been significantly compromised is going to have a serious problem on its hands.
    Quite right.

    And to repeat myself, since we no longer make much of anything anymore, how do you suppose those arms and raw materials and outfitting and supplies get here first, before they go anywhere else?
    The whole narrative is absurd on its face - at the same time the USA was both founded on White supremacy, slavery, and genocide, yet always meant to be a place that infinity Africans, Indians, and South Americans could come for a "better life"? - Unknown

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Quite right.

    And to repeat myself, since we no longer make much of anything anymore, how do you suppose those arms and raw materials and outfitting and supplies get here first, before they go anywhere else?
    We have 2 options: either bring back manufacturing, or double down on our trade dependencies which requires a global military empire to sustain

    The first option is sustainable, the latter is not
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    The notion that imperium can be effectively or efficiently projected (let alone maintained) without significant naval power across a planet 70% of which is covered with water is utterly absurd. I don't give a damn how badly you can bomb some unfortunate patch of land into utter ruin, just by using satellites or missiles or such - keeping, controlling, and/or exploiting that land afterwards (which is the whole point and object of war) is a completely different matter.

    I would also note that the concept denoted by the term "naval vessels" encompasses a hell of a lot more than just war ships designed for immediate, tactical, range-of-the-moment offense and attack. As everyone from Sun Tzu to Clausewitz (including any general or admiral with a minimal level of competence) could tell you, strategic logistics is one of the most critical factors in winning wars (and then in keeping - or at least controlling and/or exploiting - what you've won afterwards).

    So unless those fancy satellites (or other high-tech gewgaws) come equipped with Star-Trek-style "transporter" beams capable of "beaming" troops, personnel and supplies around the planet, then "naval vessels" are indeed going to continue to be an absolutely and extremely important element in any endeavor by any nation-state to project and maintain force around the globe - and any such nation-state whose ability to produce and maintain such "naval vessels" has been significantly compromised is going to have a serious problem on its hands.

    rubber duck shooting gallery.

    "boats".

    LOL.
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    rubber duck shooting gallery.

    "boats".

    LOL.
    Those "boats" can see and remove submarines and have been able to for many decades.

    Here is a video of the ship that was our sister ship when I was in the navy. She was a WWII destroyer.
    I always wondered why her skin was dished in and her skeleton could be seen from the outside.


  27. #24
    Ships are just the taxi service for the Marines
    ...



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    The notion that imperium can be effectively or efficiently projected (let alone maintained) without significant naval power across a planet 70% of which is covered with water is utterly absurd. I don't give a damn how badly you can bomb some unfortunate patch of land into utter ruin, just by using satellites or missiles or such - keeping, controlling, and/or exploiting that land afterwards (which is the whole point and object of war) is a completely different matter.

    I would also note that the concept denoted by the term "naval vessels" encompasses a hell of a lot more than just war ships designed for immediate, tactical, range-of-the-moment offense and attack. As everyone from Sun Tzu to Clausewitz (including any general or admiral with a minimal level of competence) could tell you, strategic logistics is one of the most critical factors in winning wars (and then in keeping - or at least controlling and/or exploiting - what you've won afterwards).

    So unless those fancy satellites (or other high-tech gewgaws) come equipped with Star-Trek-style "transporter" beams capable of "beaming" troops, personnel and supplies around the planet, then "naval vessels" are indeed going to continue to be an absolutely and extremely important element in any endeavor by any nation-state to project and maintain force around the globe - and any such nation-state whose ability to produce and maintain such "naval vessels" has been significantly compromised is going to have a serious problem on its hands.
    Airplanes.

    As already mentioned, airburst nuke, kill powergrid and internet. Wait a month. The enemy population will be begging you to land and control them.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Airplanes.

    As already mentioned, airburst nuke, kill powergrid and internet. Wait a month. The enemy population will be begging you to land and control them.
    Space lasers.

    Laser their airplanes from space and they will be begging for mercy within a week.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Airplanes.

    As already mentioned, airburst nuke, kill powergrid and internet.
    As already mentioned, LOL.

    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Wait a month. The enemy population will be begging you to land and control them.
    LMAO

    You should write for Hollywood.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    As already mentioned, LOL.



    LMAO

    You should write for Hollywood.
    Believe what you want. Most first world nations have become so soft and dependent on tech that an EMP is the most effective weapon out there. I'm not wrong.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Believe what you want. Most first world nations have become so soft and dependent on tech that an EMP is the most effective weapon out there. I'm not wrong.
    And when both countries' power is out, what happens then? Oh that's right, ship battles and other traditional warfare

    This can be seen even now, Ukraine has been out of power for quite a long time now, they still fighting
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    And when both countries' power is out, what happens then? Oh that's right, ship battles and other traditional warfare

    This can be seen even now, Ukraine has been out of power for quite a long time now, they still fighting
    Not true. Some power stations have been taken out, but in the western portion of the country life is fairly normal, they have power and internet.

    An airburst nuke along with anti-satellite weapons will bring a modern nation to it's knees. No power, internet or GPS. Those will be the first shots in the next world war. Nothing functions without those anymore.

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