Trump wants to end Daylight Savings Time

[Matt Collins]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDR1IURzO1Q

[dannno]

There's many reasons why they started switching clocks for daylight savings that a lot of people don't seem to understand.

It's not just about preserving some daylight in the evenings in the summer so you an enjoy the daylight after work..

When you adjust your clocks, the sun always comes up around 6am or 7am all year.. nice and consistent. So if you have work at 8am or 9am, which is the vast majority of people, it makes it easier to get going with it being light outside.

If you kept daylight savings time all year and didn't switch, you would get a little bit more light in the evenings in the winter, but you would also have the issue of it not getting light until like 8am or later. Imagine going to work at 8am and it's not even light out yet..

If you kept non-daylight savings time all year and didn't switch, in the summer you would get the sun coming up at like 5am when very few people are up, people sleep through it, then you don't get much sun after work.. which is nice to have. Maybe you want to go on a hike or a bike ride after work in the summer.

I think it is very short-sighted to want to get rid of changing time twice a year, I think it works out great and people who are against it aren't thinking it through. Or they are selfish. Maybe they are a morning person, they always get up at 5am and they want the sun to come up early when they like to get up, screw all the people who want some sun in the evenings..

The minor inconvenience of changing your clocks twice a year sets you up for 6 months of more convenient hours of sunlight every time.

[Okie RP fan]

I don't know anyone who prefers to keep changing their clocks twice a year. No one. It's entirely people all of those people are selfish or stupid. Or, they have performed their mental exercises over their lives to make the informed decision that they don't like the clock changes.

People do like the extra benefit of sunlight in the evenings, which already happens naturally to some degree with the Earth shifting towards the Sun during the Summer equinox. However, its origins in the U.S. were mostly for wartime purposes.

Also something we need to consider is that with our "modern" economy, we are beholden to our alarm clocks instead of natural circadian rhythms that the entire world used up until the last 100-200 years. We also woke up earlier, and went to bed earlier than we do now, on average.
And when the majority of people were still agricultural, they didn't need alarm clocks. Now, everyone needs them to wake up at a certain (same) time every day and it's messed with people's circadian rhythms.

I think we need to make a decision to move forward with permanent DST or get rid of it. I don't really care which way we go but the clock changing twice a year is stupid and outdated, IMO.

[Dr.3D]

Rather than changing the clocks twice a year, how about those who want to go to work an hour later or an hour earlier, arrange to do so without changing the clocks?
Seems like a business would be able to change it's hours instead of making everybody change their clocks.

[dannno]

I don't know anyone who prefers to keep changing their clocks twice a year. No one. It's entirely people all of those people are selfish or stupid. Or, they have performed their mental exercises over their lives to make the informed decision that they don't like the clock changes.

People do like the extra benefit of sunlight in the evenings, which already happens naturally to some degree with the Earth shifting towards the Sun during the Summer equinox. However, its origins in the U.S. were mostly for wartime purposes.

Also something we need to consider is that with our "modern" economy, we are beholden to our alarm clocks instead of natural circadian rhythms that the entire world used up until the last 100-200 years. We also woke up earlier, and went to bed earlier than we do now, on average.
And when the majority of people were still agricultural, they didn't need alarm clocks. Now, everyone needs them to wake up at a certain (same) time every day and it's messed with people's circadian rhythms.

I think we need to make a decision to move forward with permanent DST or get rid of it. I don't really care which way we go but the clock changing twice a year is stupid and outdated, IMO.

Rather than changing the clocks twice a year, how about those who want to go to work an hour later or an hour earlier, arrange to do so without changing the clocks?
Seems like a business would be able to change it's hours instead of making everybody change their clocks.

Two perfect examples of people not "thinking things through"

In the first example, we have someone discussing "circadian rhythms". Like I said, if you adjust your clock twice a year, the sun always comes up around 6am or 7am. So if you wake up at say, 6:30am, your circadian rhythms will be best suited to wake up at that time each day around when the sun comes up. Do you have to go through a minor adjustment when you change your clocks? Yes. But in the depths of the winter, or in the summer, if you don't change your clock and you get up at the same "time", i.e. 6:30am, you will really $#@! up your rhythms that way..

In the second example.. ya, ok, let's have work start at 8:30am in the winter, then let's change the work start time to 7:30am in the summer.. I mean, come on.. really?? You think that is less of a hassle than just changing your clocks twice a year then having work or school always start at the same time? Now you have to remember, wait, it's early, I haven't had my coffee yet.. does work start at 7:30am now or 8:30am?? What if your company works a lot with another company and they just start at 8:30am all year. Again, this is the height of inconvenience..

I really think this is a vocal minority who want it, most people are just like whatever, then if we switch.. you are going to have a lot of pissed off people once they realize how much this really impacts them.

[Dr.3D]

Two perfect examples of people not "thinking things through"

In the first example, we have someone discussing "circadian rhythms". Like I said, if you adjust your clock twice a year, the sun always comes up around 6am or 7am. So if you wake up at say, 6:30am, your circadian rhythms will be best suited to wake up at that time each day around when the sun comes up. Do you have to go through a minor adjustment when you change your clocks? Yes. But in the depths of the winter, or in the summer, if you don't change your clock and you get up at the same "time", i.e. 6:30am, you will really $#@! up your rhythms that way..

In the second example.. ya, ok, let's have work start at 8:30am in the winter, then let's change the work start time to 7:30am in the summer.. I mean, come on.. really?? You think that is less of a hassle than just changing your clocks twice a year then having work or school always start at the same time? Now you have to remember, wait, it's early, I haven't had my coffee yet.. does work start at 7:30am now or 8:30am?? What if your company works a lot with another company and they just start at 8:30am all year. Again, this is the height of inconvenience..

I really think this is a vocal minority who want it, most people are just like whatever, then if we switch.. you are going to have a lot of pissed off people once they realize how much this really impacts them.

Okay, then force everybody to conform to what the government dictates.

[oyarde]

I dont care wat 49 states do but dont want it in Indiana

[dannno]

Okay, then force everybody to conform to what the government dictates.

Nobody has to force anybody to do anything.

All you have to do is announce it on the news and everybody just does it.

[Swordsmyth]

Nobody has to force anybody to do anything.

All you have to do is announce it on the news and everybody just does it.

It is forced, anyone who has to deal with the government in any way has to deal with their schedule, they in turn make everyone they deal with conform to their schedule and it spreads out from there.
It's like how what the government accepts as payment for taxes becomes the dominant currency.

And it is unnatural to adjust by a whole hour twice a year, it's hard on the body and causes reduced health and productivity for a month afterwards.

Make it year round or end it.

[unknown]

Whatever gets us more sun up time in the evening gets my vote.

[dannno]

Whatever gets us more sun up time in the evening gets my vote.

See, this is the problem. Nobody is going to agree whether we should make DST the permanent time or non-DST the permanent time.

Morning people will largely want it non-DST so they maximize morning light year-around, and can wake up at 4:30am and go for a jog and watch the sunrise in the summer. Non-morning people will want more time after work to do things while it's light.

The current system is the only one that gives us the best of both worlds, morning people get their extra morning light in the winter when they really need it. Non-morning people get a few hours after work do go do things outdoors while it's still light in the summer. Non-morning people have to forego that extra evening light in the winter to give the morning people SOME light at least. And morning people have to forgo some morning light in the summer, when it is more plentiful for them.

You can do it your way and make DST permanent, but the sun won't come up until 8am or later in the winter. That's going to piss a lot of people off.

If they do it the other way, that will piss you off because you don't ever get that extra light in the evening when it's nice.

If we keep it the same as it is now, everybody is happiest overall. They just don't know it.

As far as forcing people to change time, I'm not really advocating that per se. I'm making the logical argument that this was well thought out, there are really good reasons for it, it keeps the sun coming up at approximately the same time all year (as close as we can without changing the clocks more often).

[dannno]

And it is unnatural to adjust by a whole hour twice a year, it's hard on the body and causes reduced health and productivity for a month afterwards.

I disagree with the premise here.

Changing the clock by an hour twice a year the way that we do it actually makes the sun rise at approximately the same time all year, or at least the closest you can get without changing the clocks more often. That's better for the circadian rhythm.

If you really wanted to optimize along that path, with everything being digitized, you could have the sun rise at 6:30am every day in the middle of the time zone. This would mean every night at midnight, the clock moves 20-30 seconds in one direction or another. You could do it at 12:01am so that it doesn't go back into the previous day half the year.

That would be optimal if you want to optimize circadian rhythms, because you could get up at exactly sunrise, or at exactly 30 minutes after sunrise, or exactly an hour after sunrise, every day and get up at the same time each day.

However that requires DAILY adjustments to the clock, which is unreasonable because some clocks and watches are not digitized and hooked up to satellite time or whatever. Rolex's would become worthless. Again, that's going to piss some people off.

That's why the current system is the best. These arguments that time changes throw off your circadian rhythm, but some how getting up an hour before the sunrise in the winter then getting up an hour after sunrise in the summer is some how good for those rhythms?? Doesn't make any sense.

I know there can be a slight shock, but it's really only once a year because people have to suddenly get up an hour earlier in the spring time change. I think that's a small sacrifice compared to the alternative.

[Anti Globalist]

Quite frankly I'm sick and tired of it being completely dark out by 5 pm.

[Madison320]

There's many reasons why they started switching clocks for daylight savings that a lot of people don't seem to understand.

It's not just about preserving some daylight in the evenings in the summer so you an enjoy the daylight after work..

When you adjust your clocks, the sun always comes up around 6am or 7am all year.. nice and consistent. So if you have work at 8am or 9am, which is the vast majority of people, it makes it easier to get going with it being light outside.

If you kept daylight savings time all year and didn't switch, you would get a little bit more light in the evenings in the winter, but you would also have the issue of it not getting light until like 8am or later. Imagine going to work at 8am and it's not even light out yet..

If you kept non-daylight savings time all year and didn't switch, in the summer you would get the sun coming up at like 5am when very few people are up, people sleep through it, then you don't get much sun after work.. which is nice to have. Maybe you want to go on a hike or a bike ride after work in the summer.

I think it is very short-sighted to want to get rid of changing time twice a year, I think it works out great and people who are against it aren't thinking it through. Or they are selfish. Maybe they are a morning person, they always get up at 5am and they want the sun to come up early when they like to get up, screw all the people who want some sun in the evenings..

The minor inconvenience of changing your clocks twice a year sets you up for 6 months of more convenient hours of sunlight every time.

I totally agree. The dumbest idea is to keep it at DST permanently, as if the government can control the spin of the earth and add hours to the day. If we went to permanent DST schools and businesses would go to a winter and summer schedule. For example normal working hours in winter would be 9-5 and 8-4 in summer. So you'd have the exact same amount of hours after work as you do now. Only now millions of schools and businesses would have to change their schedule twice a year instead of just moving the clock. Plus it screws up the 24 hour time zone system. Airline schedules will suck. And it's only a matter of time before some idiot politician suggests Double DST.

Either change it to standard time all year or keep it the way it is.

[Anti Federalist]

That's fine for you folks in southern latitudes, but not so much for us northern folks, where, outside my window it is past dusk and will be full dark in another 20 minutes or so.

But I'd be willing to settle for standard time (+5 UTC for the east coast) to stop the infernal switch every spring and fall.

[Dr.3D]

I'd be happy to use the same clock all over the world.
The military calls it Zulu time.

There is no reason why the position of the sun should be involved with time keeping.

[GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged]

I'd be happy to use the same clock all over the world.
The military calls it Zulu time.

There is no reason why the position of the sun should be involved with time keeping.

That makes sense.
Never wonder what time it is over there again.

[Dr.3D]

It is forced, anyone who has to deal with the government in any way has to deal with their schedule, they in turn make everyone they deal with conform to their schedule and it spreads out from there.
It's like how what the government accepts as payment for taxes becomes the dominant currency.

And it is unnatural to adjust by a whole hour twice a year, it's hard on the body and causes reduced health and productivity for a month afterwards.

Make it year round or end it.

My dog even knows it's unnatural.
She continues to get up at the same time no matter what the clock says.

[Henry Rogue]

This thread needs a poll. I prefer eliminating day light savings time. I start work at 6 am and work outside often. Once I retire I probably wont give a $h!+.

[dannno]

I totally agree. The dumbest idea is to keep it at DST permanently, as if the government can control the spin of the earth and add hours to the day. If we went to permanent DST schools and businesses would go to a winter and summer schedule. For example normal working hours in winter would be 9-5 and 8-4 in summer. So you'd have the exact same amount of hours after work as you do now. Only now millions of schools and businesses would have to change their schedule twice a year instead of just moving the clock. Plus it screws up the 24 hour time zone system. Airline schedules will suck. And it's only a matter of time before some idiot politician suggests Double DST.

Either change it to standard time all year or keep it the way it is.

Dammit!!

You almost had it until that last sentence!!!

Look at the post before yours.. so many people claim they would rather have the sun at the end of the day to do stuff.. but you're right, if it was still dark at 8am... 8:30am in the dead of winter, maybe later some places... that is ridiculous, people would be upset. Maybe some people would be ok with it..

But my point is, you piss off a LOT of people by either going standard time all year, and you piss a LOT of people off by going DST all year.. keep it the way it is, it's best for everyone all around.

[dannno]

My dog even knows it's unnatural.
She continues to get up at the same time no matter what the clock says.

No, she gets up at a different time every day.. if you didn't change the clocks, she would be getting up at like 5:45am in the summer and 8:15am in the winter.. so like I said in one of my previous posts, you could just have the clock change EVERY DAY so the sun comes up at the same time... then your dog gets up around 7am every day, all year.. but that means time changes EVERY DAY.

Having a time change twice a year is the best, because it keeps the sun coming up at around the same time all year, without too many time changes.

[dannno]

I hope that I am highlighting the REAL argument in this thread... if we get rid of time changes, people are going to fight in the streets over standard time all year or DST all year... right now, most people are all relatively happy the way things are, they just think they aren't.

[Dr.3D]

No, she gets up at a different time every day.. if you didn't change the clocks, she would be getting up at like 5:45am in the summer and 8:15am in the winter.. so like I said in one of my previous posts, you could just have the clock change EVERY DAY so the sun comes up at the same time... then your dog gets up around 7am every day, all year.. but that means time changes EVERY DAY.

Having a time change twice a year is the best, because it keeps the sun coming up at around the same time all year, without too many time changes.

How the hell would you know what she does?
You don't live here and she sleeps right next to me.

You need to get over thinking the position of the sun has anything to do with the time.

[dannno]

How the hell would you know what she does?

You don't live here and she sleeps right next to me.

You literally told me she did.. you said:

She continues to get up at the same time no matter what the clock says.

So when the time changes, she gets up around 20 minutes after sunrise.. or 40 minutes, or whatever.. same every day, compared to the sun.. not the clock... unless you have an alarm and they get up with the alarm, or when you get up, but clearly they don't based on your statements.

You need to get over thinking the position of the sun has anything to do with the time.

No, YOU need to get over thinking the position of the sun has anything to do with the time. That's the whole point.. The sun is the sun, "time" is a mathematical indication based on gravitational force, if you think about it.. objects fall at the same rate, 7.8 M/s or whatever..

The point is people have daily schedules, they have to go to work. Going to work at 8am every day, you don't want it to still be dark at 8:30am, it's way too hard for people to get to work. That's why we have standard time.. Then the summer, when the sun comes up earlier, we change the clock so that we can get some more light at the end of the day, and the sun still comes up around the same time in the morning for people to go to work.

It's an objective fact I'm the only on in this thread who is right.

[Okie RP fan]

Two perfect examples of people not "thinking things through"

I really think this is a vocal minority who want it, most people are just like whatever, then if we switch.. you are going to have a lot of pissed off people once they realize how much this really impacts them.

Oh, you're funny. And you're being a condescending prick.

You do realize that DST is a new invention in terms of humanity, correct? Humans went tens of thousands of years (that we know of) not observing such nonsense. It was started in the U.S. during wartime and was used for manufacturing purposes.

Think it through, $#@!.

[Swordsmyth]

My dog even knows it's unnatural.
She continues to get up at the same time no matter what the clock says.

Smart animal.

[Swordsmyth]

Dammit!!

You almost had it until that last sentence!!!

Look at the post before yours.. so many people claim they would rather have the sun at the end of the day to do stuff.. but you're right, if it was still dark at 8am... 8:30am in the dead of winter, maybe later some places... that is ridiculous, people would be upset. Maybe some people would be ok with it..

But my point is, you piss off a LOT of people by either going standard time all year, and you piss a LOT of people off by going DST all year.. keep it the way it is, it's best for everyone all around.

Everyone already hates DST.
For a compromise we can shift half an hour and then leave it that way.
The changes must end.

[GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged]

I like the idea of the entire world on the same time.
Let's face it now is now regardless of where a person happens to be.

I think I am just going to do my own time. Fuch them. Nobody can tell me what the time it is. People can't even determine what a woman is.

[dannno]

Everyone already hates DST.
For a compromise we can shift half an hour and then leave it that way.
The changes must end.

No, most people like DST, they hate changing their clocks and don't realize how dark it would be in winter if they didn't change to standard time.

No timezone is off by 30 minutes.. makes it hard to convert to other timezones..

[Invisible Man]

Whatever times people want to get up and schedule their daily activities, and whatever times businesses want to be in operation, are none of the government's concern.

This is how it always is when we get acclimated to something being run by the government. People can't imagine how it would work if free people were left to organize themselves without a central manager. But just because they can't imagine it doesn't mean there isn't some way it would work outside their imagination. It will always work better without the central manager.