An apology

[Swordsmyth]

You never answered my question.

"Ok, suppose we've already nationalized the elections like you propose. In the swing states that Trump won the "Biden Election Czar" claims that votes were disenfranchised because of id laws and awards the presidency to Harris. Are you ok with that?"

Nationalizing elections seems great when your guy has power but not so great when the opposition has power. Your guy can mandate voter ids but the opposition can mandate no voter ids just as easily.

Also since we have the electoral college it doesn't really matter that much if a state is committing fraud because most of the time a blue state is going to go blue whether they cheat or not. If Oregon was a red state they're most likely to result in a red outcome whether they cheat or not.

Here's another question for you. Do you think the federal government should also determine how a state should hold an election to secede?

And I need to add, your entire premise is a fallacy.
The left has never let a lack of precedent stop them from doing anything, if they want to outlaw voter ID or appoint an election czar to overturn elections by fiat they will do it, the only thing that stops them is whether they think they can get away with it or not.
The left's entire strategy is to do unprecedented things, that's why they have won so much and why the people huddling in a corner worried about setting precedents instead of whether something is the right thing to do have lost so much.

[jmdrake]

Dude, most states aren't gonna release that data to non-medical researchers for the purposes you outlined, and you're retarded if you think otherwise.

Even medical researchers are complaining IN YOUR OWN LINK about access issues and how it "continues to be a problem".

SO YOU'RE JUST GOING TO IGNORE MY POINT ABOUT STATE ATTORNEY GENERALS? Come on dude. I get it. You like being contrarian. But this is just ridiculous. State AGs already used death certificats to purge voter rolls! So there's no reason to believe that a state AG could use the same data to check for a specific instance of voter fraud. Just admit it. You like the idea that this can't be fact checked when it actually can be.

[jmdrake]

Yeah, they took advantage with millions of fraudulent ballots.

Maybe. Or maybe it's just a natural occurance. There is a way to actually check this instead of irresponsibly making accusations off of nothing.

[jmdrake]

That's garbage and you know it.
Only a tiny minority was angry at Trump, and Biden was just as disliked or more, plus he didn't campaign at all.

1) You're full of shyt.

2) This could actually be checked. I explained to you how. But you don't want to wait for that because that's you M.O. Just go off on wild speculation when it supports your position.

3) The final voting numbers haven't been tallied yet.

[TheTexan]

SO YOU'RE JUST GOING TO IGNORE MY POINT ABOUT STATE ATTORNEY GENERALS? Come on dude. I get it. You like being contrarian. But this is just ridiculous. State AGs already used death certificats to purge voter rolls! So there's no reason to believe that a state AG could use the same data to check for a specific instance of voter fraud. Just admit it. You like the idea that this can't be fact checked when it actually can be.

State AGs have access to their own data. Unless they're a member of ERIC I don't think other states are gonna give it to them.

Besides, even if you were to manage to 100% control for dead people (which, with data quality issues, is gonna be impossible regardless of access), that doesn't do very much to reducing the overall error margin considering the many, many other confounding variables that are present.

Yet another confounding variable I didn't mention: non-citizens present on the voter rolls.

You started off by saying this was "easy". Now you're suggesting we get State AG's involved, Trump involved, we get state agencies to work together, none of that is "easy".

What you're talking about would require nationwide coordination, and considering that a good half of this country is gonna be outright hostile to the idea, that is quite simply impossible.

[jmdrake]

State AGs have access to their own data. Unless they're a member of ERIC I don't think other states are gonna give it to them.

Well duh! But if multiple state AGs prove that the increase of votes in their state were based on dead people voting then you've verified the claim. But you don't want the claim actually tested.

Besides, even if you were to manage to 100% control for dead people (which, with data quality issues, is gonna be impossible regardless of access), that doesn't do very much to reducing the overall error margin considering the many, many other confounding variables that are present.

Yet another confounding variable I didn't mention: non-citizens present on the voter rolls.

You started off by saying this was "easy". Now you're suggesting we get State AG's involved, Trump involved, we get state agencies to work together, none of that is "easy".

What you're talking about would require nationwide coordination, and considering that a good half of this country is gonna be outright hostile to the idea, that is quite simply impossible.

AGs are already looking for non-citizens on voter rolls so that's another non issue. This isn't impossible or even difficult to do. You just want to pretend it is pre-emptively. But again, going back historically there have been previous spikes and crashes in voter particupation. There is no reason at this juncture to think the data shows anything. At most it's something to be investigated. But you're rather not attempt the investigation. It's more fun to just pretend there is something there.

[TheTexan]

Well duh! But if multiple state AGs prove that the increase of votes in their state were based on dead people voting then you've verified the claim. But you don't want the claim actually tested.

So your proposal is to get the states that cheated, and get their AG's on board with investigating voter fraud in their own state?

I love that idea, let's go do that right now.

[jmdrake]

So your proposal is to get the states that cheated, and get their AG's on board with investigating voter fraud in their own state?

I love that idea, let's go do that right now.

Well...that actually brings up an important point. Which states had the most overvotes? Nobody's even looked at that from what I can tell. If the overvotes are in states that Trump was going to lose anyway (California, New York, New Jersey, etc) then it really doesn't matter except for the popular vote count.

I'll do Georgia. I'll leave the other states as an exercise for you, @Swordsmyth, @Anti Federalist and anyone else who thinks the data shows 2020 was stolen.

In 2024 Trump won Georgia and there was a total of 5,247,040 votes.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/202...sident-results

In 2020 Trump "lost" Georgia and there was a total of 4,997,716 votes.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/revisit...ction-results/

So if Trump's "loss" in Georgia was based on extra votes being dumped in, then why were there more total votes when he won?

Oh, and there were 4,092,373 total votes in 2016 when Trump won Georgia.

[TheTexan]

So if Trump's "loss" in Georgia was based on extra votes being dumped in, then why were there more total votes when he won?

Oh, and there were 4,092,373 total votes in 2016 when Trump won Georgia.

Just because Trump won Georgia doesn't mean Georgia wasn't still cheating.

[jmdrake]

Just because Trump won Georgia doesn't mean Georgia wasn't still cheating.

Straw man argument. I wasn't saying there was no cheating in Georgia. I am saying that Georgia damanges the narrative in the OP that the drop in votes in 2024 as compared to 2020 proves that anything. Who knows? There could have been vote flipping with the Dominion Voting Machines. Or Trump could have just actually lost Georgia in 2020. Anyway, you've got your homework. I already did the comparison for 1 of the7 swing states. That's all that really matters. The popular vote is irrelevant.

[TheTexan]

Straw man argument. I wasn't saying there was no cheating in Georgia. I am saying that Georgia damanges the narrative in the OP that the drop in votes in 2024 as compared to 2020 proves that anything. Who knows? There could have been vote flipping with the Dominion Voting Machines. Or Trump could have just actually lost Georgia in 2020. Anyway, you've got your homework. I already did the comparison for 1 of the7 swing states. That's all that really matters. The popular vote is irrelevant.

You're right that further analysis could provide additional insights, in either direction. I just don't care enough to do that.

[jmdrake]

You're right that further analysis could provide additional insights, in either direction. I just don't care enough to do that.

[Madison320]

I most certainly answered your question.
I pointed out you are whipping up a straw man.
Requiring the states to require photo ID does nothing to "nationalize" elections or create an "election czar" with the power to overturn elections by fiat.

Yes it does, it sets the precedent that the feds have power over the states in a election.

If you give the feds the power you're going to regret it in the future. Remember when Bush passed the "Patriot Act"? You think it's mostly being used to catch terrorists?

[Madison320]

Maybe. Or maybe it's just a natural occurance. There is a way to actually check this instead of irresponsibly making accusations off of nothing.

The polls support lack of large scale cheating. I'm not totally sure about the exact numbers but I think in 2016 Hillary was favored by about 4 points and it was virtually a tie. In 2020 Biden was up by like 8 but only won by 4. Then in 2024 they were tied and Trump won by 4. So the polls were consistently off by about 4 points which makes sense because people are embarrassed to admit they are going to vote for Trump. If there was massive cheating in 2020, the polls would've been inconsistent. They would show Trump bias in 2016 and 2024 but not in 2020.

[Invisible Man]

You're just gaslighting now.
Joe got 10-20M nonexistent votes.

Then what caused the vote total to be so high in 2024? Were there also 10+M nonexistent votes this year?

Edit: What I'm saying is that, once you remove 10-20M votes from the total in 2020, so that 2020 stays within the range of previous years, then 2024 becomes the anomalous year with its much higher vote total, which after all the votes are included is going to turn out to be close to what 2020 was before taking away those allegedly nonexistent 10-20M votes.

[Anti Federalist]

Then what caused the vote total to go up so much in 2024? Were there also 10+M votes this year?

It didn't.

In 2020 Trump got 74.2M votes. Biden got 81.2M

In 2024 Trump got 74.3M votes. Harris got 70.3M

I cannot believe that a political hack like Biden, who has been a midwit mediocrity for 50 years in the government got 11 million more votes than Harris.

Or believe a base that huge just dried up and blew away in four years.

Or that he got over 10 million more votes than Obama at his peak in 2008.

No, 10 to 12 million fraudulent votes were pumped into the system in 2020.

In raw numbers it was the most corrupt election in this nation's history.

[Invisible Man]

It didn't.

In 2020 Trump got 74.2M votes. Biden got 81.2M

In 2024 Trump got 74.3M votes. Harris got 70.3M

What are you basing your 2024 numbers on? The final vote total hasn't even been reported yet. When they're all counted, it will be over 150 million votes, probably slightly below 2020, but not by much, and still well above the trend of previous years.

Edit: Also, notice how you're already changing the claim in the OP, where at that time it was that Harris had 66 million votes.

[Anti Federalist]

What are you basing your 2024 numbers on? The final vote total hasn't even been reported yet. When they're all counted, it will be over 150 million votes, probably slightly below 2020, but not by much, and still well above the trend of previous years.

Edit: Also, notice how you're already changing the claim in the OP, where at that time it was that Harris had 66 million votes.

Wiki vote totals in 2024, 2020, 2016, 2012 and 2008.

[Invisible Man]

Wiki vote totals in 2024, 2020, 2016, 2012 and 2008.

Are you assuming that wiki has access to 2024 vote totals that include votes that nobody else has access to?

You are comparing the final vote totals of 2012, 2016, and 2020, with only a partial count from 2024.

[Anti Federalist]

What are you basing your 2024 numbers on? The final vote total hasn't even been reported yet. When they're all counted, it will be over 150 million votes, probably slightly below 2020, but not by much, and still well above the trend of previous years.

Edit: Also, notice how you're already changing the claim in the OP, where at that time it was that Harris had 66 million votes.

I addressed that in post #6.

I realize that votes are still coming in, especially in CA.

But not ten millions worth.

Harris is not going to go from 70.2 million to 81 million or more, based on 37 percent of the CA vote left to count.

[Invisible Man]

I addressed that in post #6.

I realize that votes are still coming in, especially in CA.

But not ten millions worth.

You say you addressed it. But here you are, still doing the same thing.

[Anti Federalist]

What are you basing your 2024 numbers on? The final vote total hasn't even been reported yet. When they're all counted, it will be over 150 million votes, probably slightly below 2020, but not by much, and still well above the trend of previous years.

Edit: Also, notice how you're already changing the claim in the OP, where at that time it was that Harris had 66 million votes.

There are roughly 25 million more people in the US than in 2016.

I would expect that the number of raw votes would increase, especially considering that the invasion force is groomed so heavily to vote fraudulently.

[Invisible Man]

There are roughly 25 million more people in the US than in 2016.

I would expect that the number of raw votes would increase, especially considering that the invasion force is groomed so heavily to vote fraudulently.

That is a fair point. I agree, all else being equal (albeit the more important number is the number of eligible voters, not the total population).

But that doesn't somehow overrule the need to be accurate when stating matters of fact. If you're really being objective about this, why do you feel the need to fudge the numbers at all?

[Anti Federalist]

You say you addressed it. But here you are, still doing the same thing.

Yeah, and?

This is what I think, based on current information.

You don't have to agree and it's a moot point anyway since it will never be investigated in any meaningful way and if true, no one will be held accountable.

[Anti Federalist]

That is a fair point. I agree, all else being equal.

But that doesn't somehow overrule the need to be accurate when stating matters of fact. If you're really being objective about this, why do you feel the need to fudge the numbers at all?

The 66 million was not my number.

It was in the xweet I posted, but those numbers are changing daily and I admit that and am aware of it.

[Invisible Man]

Yeah, and?

This is what I think, based on current information.

You don't have to agree and it's a moot point anyway since it will never be investigated in any meaningful way and if true, no one will be held accountable.

You're going all over the place. One post you admit the numbers aren't final and the next you go back to pretending they are. This is like playing whack-a-mole. Did you just finish reading Swordsmyth's book on how to argue dishonestly or something?

[Invisible Man]

The 66 million was not my number.

But it was your post. And you are the one who swallowed it hook, line, and sinker, and then pawned it off to others as if it made a valid point.

[Invisible Man]

The 66 million was not my number.

It was in the xweet I posted, but those numbers are changing daily and I admit that and am aware of it.

If you admit and are aware of it, then why would you persist in saying this in post #166?

I cannot believe that a political hack like Biden, who has been a midwit mediocrity for 50 years in the government got 11 million more votes than Harris.

You know full well that Harris's vote total is going to end up a lot closer to Biden's than that.

[Invisible Man]

You don't have to agree and it's a moot point anyway since it will never be investigated in any meaningful way and if true, no one will be held accountable.

And why is that?

If there was really vote fraud on the level that you're alleging, why not investigate it? Are there no investigative journalists out there who see a major opportunity for themselves if they could be the ones to lay out the proof of this? There is certainly no shortage of people who sympathize with your claim who would help fund that research.

[Anti Federalist]

But it was your post. And you are the one who swallowed it hook, line, and sinker, and then pawned it off to others as if it made a valid point.

Ok then, I lose, you're the winner.

Petition the mods to delete a disinformation thread.