An apology

[asurfaholic]

At minimum, they need to push for voter ID.

The Red states should have implemented after 2020.

NC does thankfully.

[asurfaholic]

The answer is lack of enthusiasm. These were two deeply unpopular candidates. Democrats rallied around Biden to get rid of Trump, they did not get behind Harris in the same way, she had exremely poor approval polling.

I still have seen no proof of widespread fraud in 2020. It's been litigated to death, it just didn't happen.

Litigated to death is what you call courts refusing to examine the cases?

[Todd]

https://x.com/WallStreetSilv/status/1854261459561443374

Devils advocate. How do we account for the outlier that is also Trumps vote totals in 2020 are also extremely high.
Did they both cheat and the Dems just did better?

[CaptUSA]

Mail in needs to go.

I don't think it needs to go. We've had absentee mail-in ballots for decades. But you used to have to make a special effort to request an absentee ballot and provide a documented, valid reason by a certain date.

[CaptUSA]

Devils advocate. How do we account for the outlier that is also Trumps vote totals in 2020 are also extremely high.
Did they both cheat and the Dems just did better?

See here:

The rigging happened in the rules changes in 2020. Rule changes that Democrats have been begging for for decades. Because they know that they get a MUCH higher share of the votes from the liberal rules.

Some of those rules were pared back, but not all. It'll be curious when the deep analysis is done and we can compare and contrast the totals and check them against the rule changes (drop boxes, unsolicited mail-ins, early voting with no ID checks and masks, etc.)

Any time you "increase voter access", you are also increasing system vulnerabilities. Those vulnerabilities will be exploited by both sides and both sides know this. But one side as a BIG advantage over the other in that exploitation. Which is why the D's always push to open the system, while the R's always push to restrict the system. It has nothing to do with getting it right - it's all about gaining advantages.

In 2020, the system has never been more wide open.

[nobody's_hero]

The answer is lack of enthusiasm. These were two deeply unpopular candidates. Democrats rallied around Biden to get rid of Trump, they did not get behind Harris in the same way, she had exremely poor approval polling.

I still have seen no proof of widespread fraud in 2020. It's been litigated to death, it just didn't happen.

I don't think the enthusiasm was there in 2020.

I mean . . .

[Invisible Man]

None of the numbers make sense.
If I listen to the news now, they say that people from every demographic went to Trump in unheard of numbers. Latino's, Blacks, White Women.... Why are his numbers the same as 2020?

Where are you able to see his final vote count? Websites I've checked still show a bunch of states with well below 100% of precincts reporting.

[Anti Federalist]

Devils advocate. How do we account for the outlier that is also Trumps vote totals in 2020 are also extremely high.
Did they both cheat and the Dems just did better?

But they are not extremely high when compared to this year.

74.2 million in 2020

72.6 million in 2024, and, as of this post, there are still millions of votes left to count in CA.

So I would say that it would end up around 74.5

[PAF]

LOL

You really have no shame about supporting the leftist tyrants and their fraud.

I don't see left versus right D and R. I see your entire corrupt government as one crony fraud organization where one hand relies on and feeds the other.

Here's another thing; if I had to "choose" based on history one "side" being worse than the other, in my lifetime republicans have cost more money and destroyed far more rights that democrats.

So, take your letter "R" and shove it where the sun don't shine.

[69360]

Litigated to death is what you call courts refusing to examine the cases?

Well, yes. Bringing a meritless case before the courts and having it dismissed is litigation.

[69360]

I don't think the enthusiasm was there in 2020.

I mean . . .

Democrats were scared to venture outside during Covid.

[Madison320]

Mail in needs to go.

But do you really think the frauds will put a stop to their own fraud in the states they have stolen? Really?

Don't you agree it's better than the feds doing it?

[asurfaholic]

Well, yes. Bringing a meritless case before the courts and having it dismissed is litigation.

This isn’t my understanding of what happened. They just flat refused to hear any of it. It’s not the same as deciding the case has “no merit” because they didn’t even examine any evidence or witness testimonies.

Litigating meritless cases to death is what they did to Donald trump.

[CaptUSA]

Well, yes. Bringing a meritless case before the courts and having it dismissed is litigation.

https://x.com/GazeWindward/status/1854174051066843440

//

[Madison320]

I don't think it needs to go. We've had absentee mail-in ballots for decades. But you used to have to make a special effort to request an absentee ballot and provide a documented, valid reason by a certain date.

Yeah, that makes the most sense. As long as it's not on an industrial scale like in 2020 it should be ok.

[CaptUSA]

I want to apologize about something I was very wrong about.

As long as we're doing mea culpas, I should probably say I was wrong about the importance of Trump. I was a vocal critic during his first term. For every good thing he did, it seemed like there were 3 bad things. But I guess I needed to see how bad it could get with his replacement to fully appreciate what he was dealing with. Not only did he have that whole Russia-gate distraction, but almost his whole cabinet was working against him. Or more accurately, working in spite of him and in service of the state regime.

And then they released a government-created virus on the world and gave him a bunch of scary scenarios and bad advice on how to respond. And with no clear guiding principles, he succumbed to their pressures.

I still plan on being a big critic during his second term, but maybe I'll consider things more on balance. I do expect a BIG financial crash to happen during his term. I hope to God he selects better people to guide him.

[Occam's Banana]

Well, yes. Bringing a meritless case before the courts and having it dismissed is litigation.

Very few of the 2020 cases were dismissed on the merits. (Just off-hand, I can only recall one, in Nevada.)

Almost all of them were disposed on procedural grounds, lack of standing, etc. - not because they were deemed to be without merit.

[PAF]

As long as we're doing mea culpas, I should probably say I was wrong about the importance of Trump. I was a vocal critic during his first term. For every good thing he did, it seemed like there were 3 bad things. But I guess I needed to see how bad it could get with his replacement to fully appreciate what he was dealing with. Not only did he have that whole Russia-gate distraction, but almost his whole cabinet was working against him. Or more accurately, working in spite of him and in service of the state regime.

And then they released a government-created virus on the world and gave him a bunch of scary scenarios and bad advice on how to respond. And with no clear guiding principles, he succumbed to their pressures.

I still plan on being a big critic during his second term, but maybe I'll consider things more on balance. I do expect a BIG financial crash to happen during his term. I hope to God he selects better people to guide him.

As horrendous as Trump was during his first term, and whether you believe that he was being bamboozled or not, I personally believe the multi-billionaire was actually working on the side of the elites. With the mistrust of government he actually had the perfect opportunity to rile his base enough to demand an end to many of the programs and 3 Letter Agencies. As it stands, he actually took democrats into his campaign and states that he wants things to run more "efficiently", effectively regrowing faith and trust in government.

Trump gets a F- once again.

[GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged]

I am going to be very optimistic about Trump Second Term until he gives me reason to not be.

[CaptUSA]

As horrendous as Trump was during his first term, and whether you believe that he was being bamboozled or not, I personally believe the multi-billionaire was actually working on the side of the elites.

Yeah, I used to believe that, too. Only that he was working on the side of the elites that were friendly to him. (I don't put them all in the same basket like they're all working in unison with each other)

But I do recall an anecdote from my former CEO... Early in Trump's first term, he met with Trump in the Oval office about energy policy. He told me that in the meeting, Trump was very open about the need to support nuclear power and to speed up the permitting processes and operational regulatory hurdles. They shook hands and were in agreement. Trump stepped out of the room and his aides took over and started walking back everything Trump had just agreed to. At the time, I chalked it up to Trump letting his henchmen do his dirty work. But now, I think they were really undermining his decisions. I think we saw a bunch of that on the news as well.

[jmdrake]

I want to apologize about something I was very wrong about.

I dismissed many of the claims that the 2020 election was rigged, or at least rigged to the extent that many people were saying it was.

I figured there was the usual "side" hanky panky, a little better organized and carried out, but not 10 millions worth.

But now, that is appearing exactly what happened in 2020.

10 million fraudulent ballots were injected into the system, through various means, to totally upset and manipulate the outcome.

I still find it hard to believe and that it was carried out right before our eyes, but $#@!, there is no other conclusion to be reached.

So, mea culpa, my apologies to the folks that were telling me what was the glaring truth.

Higher than average voter turnout for 2020 was reported way back in 2021. See: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/t...us-data-shows/

Possible reasons for the higher turnout?

1) Nationwide there was no questions asked abstentie voting. So all of a sudden voting was super convenient.

2) Nationwide mass protests and civil unrest natutually resulted in higher voter turnout.

The 2020 turnout level while high, is not unprecedented. From the above linked article.

The Census Bureau’s estimates confirm the general perception that 2020 voter turnout was very high, at 66.8%. This was the biggest turnout in a presidential election since 1992 (67.7%) and more than 5 points higher than the 2016 election.

Notice the huge spike from 1988 to 1992 followed by a even larger crash in voting in 1996. But nobody was crying "conspiracy theory" back then. 1992 was Bill Clinton's first presidential election and 1996 was his second. But to @TheCount's point, why stop stealing? One can argue that it was "harder to steal" this time because we don't have universal mail in voting, but it was also harder to vote this time for the very same reason.

But if anybody really wanted to get to the bottom of this, they could do a follow up study. Each jurisdiction has lists of voters who voted in each election. Find people who the rolls showed voted in 2020 and not in 2024 and do a random phone survey asking the simple question "Did you vote in 2020?" If a significant number say "no" then maybe you have something. But I fit int the catgory of those who voted in 2024 and did not vote in 2020. And I'm willing to bet that you're more likely to find people who voted for someone other than Trump in 2020 and didn't vote in 2024 than those who voted for Trump and then decided to sit this one out.

[PAF]

Yeah, I used to believe that, too. Only that he was working on the side of the elites that were friendly to him. (I don't put them all in the same basket like they're all working in unison with each other)

But I do recall an anecdote from my former CEO... Early in Trump's first term, he met with Trump in the Oval office about energy policy. He told me that in the meeting, Trump was very open about the need to support nuclear power and to speed up the permitting processes and operational regulatory hurdles. They shook hands and were in agreement. Trump stepped out of the room and his aides took over and started walking back everything Trump had just agreed to. At the time, I chalked it up to Trump letting his henchmen do his dirty work. But now, I think they were really undermining his decisions. I think we saw a bunch of that on the news as well.

If you haven't had a chance to listen to this yet, I strongly hope that you will. If it seems too long for you, maybe skip [I wouldn't] to the meet at about 40:00 and all the way to the end:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...d-Whitney-Webb

Warning: you may not like what you hear.

[jmdrake]

If you haven't had a chance to listen to this yet, I strongly hope that you will. If it seems too long for you, maybe skip [I wouldn't] to the meet at about 40:00 and all the way to the end:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...d-Whitney-Webb

Warning: you may not like what you hear.

I'll check it out later and give my thoughts in that thread. James Corbett and Whitney Webb are two of the best conspiracy realists in the business.

[Bern]

I don't know much about Corbett, but I am wholly unimpressed by everything I've watched/read from Whitney Webb. I think she's an idiot.

[PAF]

I don't know much about Corbett, but I am wholly unimpressed by everything I've watched/read from Whitney Webb. I think she's an idiot.

"Don't let the facts hurt my feelings."

[PAF]

I'll check it out later and give my thoughts in that thread. James Corbett and Whitney Webb are two of the best conspiracy realists in the business.

I cross reference a lot of what I hear and read. They are very difficult [if not impossible] to dispute.

[ProBlue33]

@PAF

I kind of wonder what your core beliefs are outside of the politics.
Because this guides how we perceive and feel about what we see happening in the American political sphere, you seem exceptionally negative, a doom and gloom type of guy.

For example, I wanted Trump to win because he is a Bulwark against things I despise well I am waiting for the things outlined below.

I personally believe like many other rulers used by God at critical times in history that were unbelievers and heathens, that he utilized them and their personalities to accomplish certain objectives that link up to bible prophesy.
Do I think he is the antichrist of coarse not, actually I think the dark forces were trying to take him out, but in this chess match they lost.

I actually think Trump is going bring about world peace, which will trigger a certain bible prophesy, which in turn triggers another bible prophesy that has to do with UN, and this triggers Jesus to FINALLY take action on this planet, so those are my reasons.

I imagine my world view is very different than yours.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Voter ID and no more mail-in ballots, except for service members. If you are too lazy to go to the polls or too busy enjoying your shore house in another state, tough cookies.

[PAF]

@PAF

I kind of wonder what your core beliefs are outside of the politics.
Because this guides how we perceive and feel about what we see happening in the American political sphere, you seem exceptionally negative, a doom and gloom type of guy.

For example, I wanted Trump to win because he is a Bulwark against things I despise well I am waiting for the things outlined below.

I personally believe like many other rulers used by God at critical times in history that were unbelievers and heathens, that he utilized them and their personalities to accomplish certain objectives that link up to bible prophesy.
Do I think he is the antichrist of coarse not, actually I think the dark forces were trying to take him out, but in this chess match they lost.

I actually think Trump is going bring about world peace, which will trigger a certain bible prophesy, which in turn triggers another bible prophesy that has to do with UN, and this triggers Jesus to FINALLY take action on this planet, so those are my reasons.

I imagine my world view is very different than yours.

First off, I do not believe that Trump is the anti-Christ, but he certainly was not sent by God. He is a billionaire opportunist plain and simple who doesn't know the first thing about libertarian[ism] or the Bill of Rights. He thrives on attention and wants to leave some kind of legacy for his offspring to remember him by. That said, it would be fun to hang around the guy, I think we'd have lots of fun and get along pretty well ;-) Politically, he can go pound sand.

Secondly, I'm not doom and gloom at all. I'm actually very well rounded, have too many interests and hobbies to count, and more adventurous than kids half my age. But I am a realist, and realize now that government was not, is not, and never will be the solution.

Sometimes I get carried away here on the forum, but my goal is to expose what I can to show others that no politician/government has your self-interest at heart, and that there are other ways to research things, think about things, and apply them to everyday life. Sometimes [ok, a lot] I inject my dry sense of humor into things, but that's just me lol

Every once in a while I come across an article or a podcast which nails it home. When I do, I try to exploit it the best that I can in hopes that others may take things from it as I do. Who knows, next month it might be something/somebody else different. But for now, it's Whitney Webb because everything that I have researched on my own and started threads on, she nails it in one nice podcast.

Lastly, I've said before that I'm not much of a conversationalist online. A few jabs here and there which is fun and ok, but unless somebody provides data and based on the facts, or can at least prove me wrong which I actually welcome and appreciate, I lose interest really fast.

Anyway, if you have the time, check this out. If you can't sit through it, at least start at the 40:00 minute mark and listen to the end. As I warned before, you may not like what you hear, but according to my own research and cross-referencing, it's solid:


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...d-Whitney-Webb


Oh, I'm an anarchist/libertarian/Agorist/whatever ;-)

[Anti Federalist]

Wings and motorcycles and hot chicks....that's how you get @PAF 's attention @ProBlue33

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