Rand Paul: Trump's tariffs will hurt Americans...

[TheTexan]

I'm gonna laugh when someone eventually says that "economic dependencies leads to wars" is a "strawman argument", and then claim that "nobody said that it doesnt do that",

It's gonna happen @Swordsmyth I promise you. maybe not now but eventually lol

[jmdrake]

That was also before the internet. It's entirely possible to keep up with the world, and even surpass, without trade. (or rather, very limited trade)

I suppose if you're only going to access the internet with outdated PCs and forget buying smartphones.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/15/how-...ur-phones.html

https://masterinvestor.co.uk/economi...nch-hits-home/

[Swordsmyth]

We traded less with Japan and according to @TheTexan's ChatGPT generated response that led to war so you're full of shyt.

Edit: And it appears that the problem is you don't understand the term "entangling alliance." Let's use a practical example. We trade with China and we trade with Taiwan. But we have an entangling alliance with Taiwan and not with China. If China invades Taiwan we have kind of, sort of committed ourselves to defending Taiwan. On the flip side we have not promised to defend China if they were attacked. You can have trade without an entangling alliance.

Now, here's what you don't understand about protective tarriffs. They always benefit somebody. Our embargo with Japan resulted in greater entanglement with the countries Japan was fighting. But hey, if you want zero trade at all at least that is an argument.

You will notice that I never said anything about alliances, they are but one form of entanglement.
China has much greater influence in America than Taiwan because of our trade dependence on them.
And we were already more entangled in trade with the British than the Japanese and that's why we sided with them instead of Japan.

[jmdrake]

I'm gonna laugh when someone eventually says that "economic dependencies leads to wars" is a "strawman argument", and then claim that "nobody said that it doesnt do that",

It's gonna happen @Swordsmyth I promise you. maybe not now but eventually lol

So starve Timmy, become like ancient China, and use slower computers than the rest of the world. Got it. Sounds like a plan!

[jmdrake]

You will notice that I never said anything about alliances, they are but one form of entanglement.
China has much greater influence in America than Taiwan because of our trade dependence on them.
And we were already more entangled in trad ewith the British than the Japanese and that's why we sided with them instead of Japan.

No trade with anybody. Got it.

[Swordsmyth]

No trade with anybody. Got it.

Minimal trade that doesn't create dependency unless we have no other option for a necessity.

[TheTexan]

So starve Timmy, become like ancient China, and use slower computers than the rest of the world. Got it. Sounds like a plan!

Or just, you know, trade responsibly, while being cognizant of the dependencies -- and wars -- it can create.

The #1 thing that slows down economic progress is war. If you can stay out of war, you'll prosper.

[TheTexan]

I suppose if you're only going to access the internet with outdated PCs and forget buying smartphones.

You keep making this claim, but by what mechanism precisely does a country "fall behind" from being generally self-reliant on trade?

Because if it's "specialization", well, I don't buy that at all. Anything that anyone else can do, America can do just as well. (besides grow bananas, at least for now)

[jmdrake]

You keep making this claim, but by what mechanism precisely does a country "fall behind" from being generally self-reliant on trade?

Because if it's "specialization", well, I don't buy that at all. Anything that anyone else can do, America can do just as well. (besides grow bananas, at least for now)

I gave you links to the fact that the latest and greatest chips require rare earth minerals that are currently not in abundance in the U.S. Apparently you didn't click the lins. This has nothing to do with what America and or can't do but what America does and does not have. That said, the Congo would probably be better off without the strip mining that's going on to provide these rare earth minerals so go ahead and starve Timmy.

[jmdrake]

Or just, you know, trade responsibly, while being cognizant of the dependencies -- and wars -- it can create.

The #1 thing that slows down economic progress is war. If you can stay out of war, you'll prosper.

I agree on no war.

[jmdrake]

Minimal trade that doesn't create dependency unless we have no other option for a necessity.

So how much trade is "minimal trade?"

[TheTexan]

I gave you links to the fact that the latest and greatest chips require rare earth minerals that are currently not in abundance in the U.S. Apparently you didn't click the lins. This has nothing to do with what America and or can't do but what America does and does not have. That said, the Congo would probably be better off without the strip mining that's going on to provide these rare earth minerals so go ahead and starve Timmy.

Yea I'm fine with trading rare minerals and such. If stuff is genuinely more abundant in other places of the global, I see no problem importing it.

There's stuff that America also can't grow well (yet), e.g. bananas.

This category of trade is a tiny fraction of total trade however.

[Matt Collins]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK4E1d_LGco

[TheTexan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK4E1d_LGco

My main take-away from that video is that the New York Times was globalist propaganda even back in the 1890's

[Swordsmyth]

So how much trade is "minimal trade?"

However much can be replaced with local production if we are cut off without serious economic disruption.

[Swordsmyth]

I gave you links to the fact that the latest and greatest chips require rare earth minerals that are currently not in abundance in the U.S. Apparently you didn't click the lins. This has nothing to do with what America and or can't do but what America does and does not have. That said, the Congo would probably be better off without the strip mining that's going on to provide these rare earth minerals so go ahead and starve Timmy.

America has all the rare earths we need, we just lock up access to them because we have access to foreign sources and our politicians are traitors.

[Swordsmyth]

My main take-away from that video is that the New York Times was globalist propaganda even back in the 1890's

Which everyone should already know.
New York was the world headquarters of International (globalist) Communism.

[PAF]

Which everyone should already know.
New York was the world headquarters of International (globalist) Communism.

Yeah but Ayn Rand also lived there which is kinda cool

[jmdrake]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK4E1d_LGco

So....income tax = war? Sounds like a great reason to scrap the income tax in favor of tariffs.

[Matt Collins]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ikFV9JYUhc

[Matt Collins]

Interesting take from a Heretic Foundation economist... according to him China's government paid the US tariffs last time around essentially subsidizing it so that their sellers could keep their prices competitive...





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEna_y8KyK4

[Matt Collins]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeO3BZCe3uk

[Matt Collins]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcWo9Q2gqHg

[Leaning Libertarian]

I'm not even close to an economist, so I concede I may be missing something; however, I don't really see how tariffs are bad. Michigan Industrial Tools are mass produced overseas, then shipped to the USA. Under tariff's their prices could soar. As a consumer, I may have brand loyalty, but only to a certain price point. I would then say, to heck with this, I will go get some Dewalt or Craftsman tools, made in the USA, not subject to tariffs. Eventually, Michigan Industrial Tools would most probably decide increased production costs of moving to the US might be a better option than the imposed tariffs. Wouldn't this create more industrial jobs, and create more commercial real estate customers in the long run?

[Swordsmyth]

I'm not even close to an economist, so I concede I may be missing something; however, I don't really see how tariffs are bad. Michigan Industrial Tools are mass produced overseas, then shipped to the USA. Under tariff's their prices could soar. As a consumer, I may have brand loyalty, but only to a certain price point. I would then say, to heck with this, I will go get some Dewalt or Craftsman tools, made in the USA, not subject to tariffs. Eventually, Michigan Industrial Tools would most probably decide increased production costs of moving to the US might be a better option than the imposed tariffs. Wouldn't this create more industrial jobs, and create more commercial real estate customers in the long run?

Exactly.
And it will increase wages for American workers and make the dollar more valuable as well.

[Matt Collins]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxt7bfHf-Zk

[PAF]

No, free trade does.

I'll just call you out right here for being part of the QAnon, Peter Thiel, Elon Musk Network for distorting everything that Mises, Ron Paul and this site represents.

Now I know why you stay away from Whitney Webb, Corbett and Catherine Fitts - they do the real digging and ask/answer the right questions, unlike your guy Tucker who is part of that Theil/Musk Network.


Related:

Peter Thiel On Why Competition Is For Losers

Manufacturing the Far-Right: Who Is Shaking the Jar?

[Swordsmyth]

distorting everything that Mises, Ron Paul and this site represents.

That's what you and the others do.
You promote globalism and oppose all efforts to fight it.

[PAF]

That's what you and the others do.
You promote globalism and oppose all efforts to fight it.

If you are going to quote me, do it in whole. Don't do it algorithmically like Elon Musk does on his X[shltter] platform.

I'll just call you out right here for being part of the QAnon, Peter Thiel, Elon Musk Network for distorting everything that Mises, Ron Paul and this site represents.

Now I know why you stay away from Whitney Webb, Corbett and Catherine Fitts - they do the real digging and ask/answer the right questions, unlike your guy Tucker who is part of that Theil/Musk Network.


Related:

Peter Thiel On Why Competition Is For Losers

Manufacturing the Far-Right: Who Is Shaking the Jar?

[Matt Collins]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB9jBpX1yx8