I am voting for Trump.

[Theocrat]

Israel Derangement Syndrome.

I'm against Zionism, not Israel because, theologically speaking, the Church is Israel (those who are covenantally united to Christ by faith and through baptism). So I am pro-Israel, in the Biblical sense of the word, not in the nation-state sense of a country which is Atheistic in its entire ethics, civics, etc.

[Anti Federalist]

Risk/Reward

Everything you just said was exactly, but EXACTLY the same manner of justification that those of us make about voting.

Risk vs. Reward

Voting is a small risk with a small reward as opposed to picking up a rifle and starting the wild rumpus.

If you really wanted to risk something for an incredible reward, you'd treat the tax collector as an armed intruder in your home.

But both of us know neither of us is going to do that.

Risk/Reward.

And here we sit.

But what you can not do while sitting here, is piss on your fellow man for making the exact same calculation that you just admitted to.

[acptulsa]

Voting is a small risk with a small reward as opposed to picking up a rifle and starting the wild rumpus.

There is no reward for voting in a presidential election. None. This "reward" of which you speak is exactly like a "budget cut". The amount of money in that bureau's budget never goes down. They're just reducing the projected increase, and blowing smoke up your ass about it being a "cut".

And you're blowing smoke up our asses about this alleged "reward". There is no reward in voting with a gaggle of morons who are brainwashed into thinking that the "Two Party System" exists outside their Stockholm Syndrome. There is only the faint hope that things won't get quite as much worse quite as quickly. That's all.

Zero risk, unless you're such a bad driver you're likely to try to fell a phone pole on the way. Zero reward unless it's down-ballot.

[dannno]

I'm against Zionism, not Israel because, theologically speaking, the Church is Israel (those who are covenantally united to Christ by faith and through baptism). So I am pro-Israel, in the Biblical sense of the word, not in the nation-state sense of a country which is Atheistic in its entire ethics, civics, etc.

That's fine, complain about Israel all you want. Join me in asking to defund foreign aid to all countries (not just Israel).

However the idea that this is a single-issue for you to not vote for Trump, when you know they are going to fund Israel no matter which one gets elected, is kinda ridiculous all considering.

How about the guy who is going to negotiate peace in Israel and Ukraine? Who wants to bring our troops home and end wars because he "wants the dying to stop", while the other candidate goes on about how we need to keep funding Ukraine and having more people killed so they can beat Russia..

[Anti Federalist]

There is no reward for voting in a presidential election. None. This "reward" of which you speak is exactly like a "budget cut". The amount of money in that bureau's budget never goes down. They're just reducing the projected increase, and blowing smoke up your ass about it being a "cut".

And you're blowing smoke up our asses about this alleged "reward". There is no reward in voting with a gaggle of morons who are brainwashed into thinking that the "Two Party System" exists outside their Stockholm Syndrome. There is only the faint hope that things won't get quite as much worse quite as quickly. That's all.

Zero risk, unless you're such a bad driver you're likely to try to fell a phone pole on the way. Zero reward unless it's down-ballot.

Presidents appoint SCOTUS judges.

The judges appointed by Trump aligned together to overturn one of the most significant rulings of regulatory power, the Chevron Doctrine.

That ruling alone has massive impacts, reducing the power of the regulatory state which is where most of our oppression lies.

Judges appointed by Biden or Harris would not have done that.

That's worth a trip to town hall to mark a ballot, in spite of all the black pills you guys are throwing around.

You keep harping on all these points, as if all the rest of us are too $#@!ing stupid to not know that already.

Nobody wants to do any real heavy lifting, so we are left with this.

[Swordsmyth]

Mises Wire
Aaron Sobczak
09/11/2024

In 2015, then-President Obama, agreed to allow the United States to assist Saudi Arabia in its campaign against the Shia Houthis in Yemen. This relationship was continued by Trump, and resulted in what is widely regarded as genocide towards the Houthi people. Fast-forward to recent years, President Trump worked tirelessly to undermine Iran, Saudi Arabia’s chief enemy, while also having significant business dealings with the Saudi royal family.


Present day, the United States is addicted to selling arms to Saudi Arabia, with President Biden announcing a $500 billion arms sale in 2023. Despite human rights abuses, ties to 9-11, and regular support for America’s enemies, Riyadh continues to enjoy high levels of support from the United States. It is likely that President Trump will renew talks surrounding his Abraham Accords with Saudi Arabia if he is re-elected in 2024. The Abraham Accords are a series of agreements made between the United States, Israel, and willing Muslim-majority nations. The agreements always involve normalizing relations with Israel, millions of dollars in aid from the United States, as well as other tantalizing items. Normalization between Saudi Arabia and Israel would have implications of enormous magnitude, as the Saudis carry high levels of influence not just in the Middle East, but also around the world.

Right, let's just ignore that the Iranian regime and its proxy terrorists started the war against us and SA long ago.

Complete noninterventionism might be better, but it wasn't politically possible.

[Swordsmyth]

Worry not! If reelected Trump will fulfill his promise to reduce the illegal population by distributing a couple million newly minted green cards. Bet they even have his signature on em.


But yah, I get it, it's rock and a hard place. Here's the rub: the helms-man already picked charybdis.

That's just pure lies.

[Swordsmyth]

I don't understand why more people don't see this.

For 32 years every presidential election I've witnessed has boiled down to the lesser of two evils argument. Every single one.

Well, maybe not Bob Dole - he remains the only politician I've heard mention that there's a 10th amendment in a presidential debate.

But every single election has been nothing more than panic mongering over what the other side is going to do. The only thing that has changed is that they keep ramping up the urgency of what the other side is going to do.
I think this is because starting 20 years ago more and more people started disconnecting from the TV narrative and realizing they'd been eating vomit their entire lives, and eschewing those who fed it to them. As people started to wake up and realize voting for the lesser evil is still voting for evil, they've simply turned up the volume on their same tired old argument.

And very few people seem to be noticing that while the other side has gotten a lot more evil, the lesser evil we're supposed to vote for is now more evil than the evils we were supposed to be voting against 20 years ago.

I have children. I owe it to them to do something to make this situation better. It's clear, to anyone who wants to see it, where this is going. In 12 years they'll run a Republican who is in favor of mandatory federal funding for SRS for 12 year olds without parental consent and you're all going to lap it up because the Democrats will be openly pushing for Modest Proposal-ing children of white people and race traitors.

That's what your vote for Trump represents. Passing the buck.

$#@! that. If this shindig is going to start, let it be in my time. Let me still have the mental capacity to at least be able to repair firing pins or something.

I have no interest in passing on that responsibility to my son.

Trump is not a lesser evil, he's weak overall good.

[PAF]

Presidents appoint SCOTUS judges.

The judges appointed by Trump aligned together to overturn one of the most significant rulings of regulatory power, the Chevron Doctrine.

That ruling alone has massive impacts, reducing the power of the regulatory state which is where most of our oppression lies.

Judges appointed by Biden or Harris would not have done that.

That's worth a trip to town hall to mark a ballot, in spite of all the black pills you guys are throwing around.

You keep harping on all these points, as if all the rest of us are too $#@!ing stupid to not know that already.

Nobody wants to do any real heavy lifting, so we are left with this.

For the record, I'm not pissing on ya, A/F. As I said before, YMMV. It's just not my thing.

Just remember that it was government and the SCOTUS that created the Chevron Doctrine in the first place.

It still comes down to when the people have had enough.

[fisharmor]

@1:36



I would like to see him expand that reasoning to various other issues, of course. But on this particular one he pretty much nailed it.

Pretty sure he feels that way about cannabis, as well.

The point is, I heard Dole read the text of the 10th Amendment out loud in a debate. Trumps "this is what everyone wants" populist argument is not the same as Dole's "this is what it says and therefore what we're suggesting here is actually illegal" argument. Ron Paul is the only other politician I've heard make similar statements ('don't ask lawyers - open up the constitution and read it').
Those who are criticizing Trump for not having a vision are actually right on target. Harris' vision may be repellant, we may not want to recognize it, we may be terrified of her getting into a position to enact it, but it's there.

He's so damned close. All he needs to do is offer one extra sentence ('and by the way the 10th amendment says so and this is actually how we're supposed to handle abortion and every other crime') but he can't, because that's contrary to his actual vision: winning. That's what he's built for. Winning at all costs. It's not a coincidence he has all the 'oh yeah smart guy well you can't enact ANY changes if you don't win' crowd firmly sewed into his pocket. Those people have never recognized the problem with prioritizing winning and foregoing having any first principles.

Without first principles and a vision Trump is just flailing and managing to occasionally connect with what people want. And in an alternate universe where he's physically allowed to win, he'd do the same thing - keep flailing. And he'd flail right into hiring another swamp creature who would convince him not to release the JFK files or that 8 trillion in deficit spending isn't a problem or that experimental nonfunctional medicine that actually kills us is a more appropriate response to a cold with an overwhelming survival rate that actually investigating who engineered the whole thing.

This is all exactly as I already wrote. He's the option of kicking the can. Rolling the dice. His dice only have 1's on three sides and Kamala's dice are 1's on all six sides. So everyone wants to let it ride and hope we don't roll snake eyes as opposed to knowing we will.

Brother, I hear you loud and clear.

With my age and ailments, I wouldn't last through the first skirmish.

But like you, maybe I can reload magazines, hold the line as part of the 118th Immobile Militia, or, suffering from what Ben Franklin suffered from, among other things, maybe I could serve as a diplomat, while canoodling with French broads.

But neither one of us is going to make the first move to light this candle.

And nobody else seems to have the stomach for it.

So, here we sit, bitching and rage tweeting at each other, as our own genocide works up momentum around us.

ETA - Please do not take this as an attack on you, personally.

If anything it's self criticism of the insignificant and cowardly man I devolved into.

Brother, I got a girl about to turn 16 who doesn't talk and $#@!s her pants and a 7 year old sharing a room with her in a 1300sf house. I would bet that house you have some dire circumstances you gotta deal with also - and if you don't now, I bet the specter of a serious medical problem haunts you constantly. It has nothing to do with cowardice and everything to do with the fact that we still have a lot to lose. Being middle class has always been that - a dance on the razor edge between having nothing to lose, and being able to lose. What motivates the middle class the most is when people screw with that calculation. It's why 50% of us just want free $#@! and the other 50% just want our money back from paying for the free $#@!.

I don't have the courage to go fight either. What I do have, is the courage to lose what I do have. If I do, others will as well. And when enough of us do, that's when it'll start.

In the appropriate environment, it'll only take us a couple years to get back to where we are now.

[fisharmor]

Trump is not a lesser evil, he's weak overall good.

You say this because you don't understand that Biden's inflation was kickstarted by Trumps 8trillion deficit, you don't understand that Biden's vaccine mandates were made possible by Trump's fast tracking, and you don't understand that not even Biden tried gun control by fiat because it was that contrary to the function of the entire system.

[CaptUSA]

You say this because you don't understand that Biden's inflation was kickstarted by Trumps 8trillion deficit, you don't understand that Biden's vaccine mandates were made possible by Trump's fast tracking, and you don't understand that not even Biden tried gun control by fiat because it was that contrary to the function of the entire system.

So, I would say that it was the ideology of the State that kickstarted the inflation and Trump succumbed to that ideology like a little bitch, especially in his last year.

The only thing is that the State had to maneuver Trump into adopting that ideology using his personal desire to be liked and to retain power (FAIL), whereas Kamala is a straight up puppet of that ideology.

Trump is only "good" in that there may be a few appointments to agencies and the Courts that could result in some victories for us. You will get no such victories on the other side.

[Anti Federalist]

It still comes down to when the people have had enough.

I agree 100 percent with that.

It's amazing how much they will tolerate though, is it not?

[fisharmor]

Trump is only "good" in that there may be a few appointments to agencies and the Courts that could result in some victories for us. You will get no such victories on the other side.

Exactly - and those small victories are why none of the frogs notice they're in the pot. I'm tired of trying to convince them. Only turning up the heat will do it.

[PAF]

Exactly - and those small victories are why none of the frogs notice they're in the pot. I'm tired of trying to convince them. Only turning up the heat will do it.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to @fisharmor again."

[Snowball]

We just have to trust him if he wins. It's the best shot we have politically.

Life is hard enough without losing our society to boot.

[acptulsa]

We just have to trust him if he wins. It's the best shot we have politically.

Life is hard enough without losing our society to boot.

We just have to trust him? No. That's the major problem.

When the time comes to secede, I don't want to hear, oh we can't leave until we see what Big Brother Donnie has planned! We had better leave before then, people. There is such a thing as too late.

[Anti Federalist]

Brother, I got a girl about to turn 16 who doesn't talk and $#@!s her pants and a 7 year old sharing a room with her in a 1300sf house. I would bet that house you have some dire circumstances you gotta deal with also - and if you don't now, I bet the specter of a serious medical problem haunts you constantly. It has nothing to do with cowardice and everything to do with the fact that we still have a lot to lose. Being middle class has always been that - a dance on the razor edge between having nothing to lose, and being able to lose. What motivates the middle class the most is when people screw with that calculation. It's why 50% of us just want free $#@! and the other 50% just want our money back from paying for the free $#@!.

I don't have the courage to go fight either. What I do have, is the courage to lose what I do have. If I do, others will as well. And when enough of us do, that's when it'll start.

In the appropriate environment, it'll only take us a couple years to get back to where we are now.

[acptulsa]

That's worth a trip to town hall to mark a ballot, in spite of all the black pills you guys are throwing around.

It's you people who have to have somebody in charge, or have to have that somebody in charge from a familiar structure, or feel too old to start over, or just can't give it up who see "all successful politicians in this system are corrupt psychopaths" as a black pill.

But we see a white pill just the other side of the crash. Either we're not making people see it, or they just can't believe it can come out so well...

I don't have the courage to go fight either. What I do have, is the courage to lose what I do have. If I do, others will as well. And when enough of us do, that's when it'll start.

In the appropriate environment, it'll only take us a couple years to get back to where we are now.

It would only take a couple of years of freedom to build paradise, if we as humans can possibly be careful of who we listen to. Unfortunately, convincing Swordsmyth and his ilk that things will improve after his Trumpy Bear falls (and the whole corrupt system with him) is about as easy as convincing that one friend to leave the meth-addicted nymphomaniac he fell for.

Trump is not a lesser evil, he's weak overall good.

He never did a thing for you that a meth-addicted nympho wouldn't do, and never will. In fact, he costs more and doesn't do as much.

[Anti Federalist]

It's you people who have to have somebody in charge, or have to have that somebody in charge from a familiar structure, or feel too old to start over, or just can't give it up who see "all successful politicians in this system are corrupt psychopaths" as a black pill.

How do you define success?

Massie is a psychopath? Ron? Rand? RFK Jr.? Tulsi?

But we see a white pill just the other side of the crash. Either we're not making people see it, or they just can't believe it can come out so well...

I used to think that way, burn it all down so, like a phoenix, liberty, freedom and enlightenment can rise from the ashes on the other side.

I no longer think that.

I think it is much more likely that a 1000 year dark age of misery, death and oppression will fill that void, one from which mankind may never extract itself from.

If you want me to gamble on torching western civilization in the hope that everything will turn out OK after the fires go out, you're going to have give me more reassurance than: "I think that's how it will all turn out".

[CaptUSA]

But we see a white pill just the other side of the crash. Either we're not making people see it, or they just can't believe it can come out so well...

Evidence, man! Evidence. What makes you think there's good on the other side of the crash? Because I have children and grandchildren. The evidence (and history) is telling me that the power structures will use any crash to further clamp down, further steal the wealth, further censor, and further restrict liberty. It seems like you're hoping for that to push people to fight back harder?

I prefer the Massie approach - take the wins where you can get them and hold on while people get braver.

[acptulsa]

And that's why we can't have nice things.

I'm not saying I'm right and you two are wrong. What I'm saying is, that's why the human race can't have nice things. Like Republicans, we'd rather preserve hell and our place in it than take a leap.

Don't have evidence. Do have this:

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

It's a strange psyop that convinces anyone that Trump is such a Guard, given his record.

[CaptUSA]

It's a strange psyop that convinces anyone that Trump is such a Guard, given his record.

Yeah, hard to argue with that. You know I'm not a Trump fan whatsoever.

But he's also a mixed bag. We all know the horrible picks, but we did get some decent nominations from him too. Nothing like that will happen under the regime puppets.

[Theocrat]

That's fine, complain about Israel all you want. Join me in asking to defund foreign aid to all countries (not just Israel).

However the idea that this is a single-issue for you to not vote for Trump, when you know they are going to fund Israel no matter which one gets elected, is kinda ridiculous all considering.

How about the guy who is going to negotiate peace in Israel and Ukraine? Who wants to bring our troops home and end wars because he "wants the dying to stop", while the other candidate goes on about how we need to keep funding Ukraine and having more people killed so they can beat Russia..

It's a single issue which is connected to a network of other positions. That single issue is pro-life. To be pro-life means that you care for the preservation of innocent life both inside and outside of the womb, and that incorporates the prohibition of conflicts and wars which will lead to the unnecessary, if not, unethical, termination of civilians who have nothing to do with posing a national threat. It has been shown countless times that the nation-state of Israel is using certain events to justify a campaign of genocide towards an ethnic/national group of people who are not terrorists.

As a Christian, I'm against any candidate who will support another nation killing my people (that is, Palestinian Christians) for political and religious reasons. Trump's unadulterated support of Israel offsets his commitment to end the conflict over in Ukraine and Russia, even if he claims, "I just want the dying to stop." He wants to stop the killing of Ukrainian and Russian lives, but he's okay with Palestinians (and even Israelis) being killed because "Israel needs to be feared by her enemies again."

Therefore, as a "sInGlE-iSsUe VoTeR," I feel justified in not supporting Trump at all, and I'm sick and tired of people like you trying to justify "voting for the lesser of two evils."

[Anti Globalist]

Great idea. Vote for a guy whose goal is to destroy the GOP and is secretly working with the Democrats to destroy this nation.

[acptulsa]

It's a single issue which is connected to a network of other positions. That single issue is pro-life. To be pro-life means that you care for the preservation of innocent life both inside and outside of the womb...

And it's not just about war. He financed the jab and has never renounced it. I don't care if it's politically expedient or not. They're still pushing that jab in television commercials you and I are paying for. Anyone who can't stand up against it I have no use for.

[TheCount]

Right, let's just ignore that the Iranian regime and its proxy terrorists started the war against us and SA long ago.

When?

[69360]

Everyone has their reasons and they are valid. Mine is that I don't think Harris has the gravitas to represent the US on a world stage. For instance $#@! is about to hit the fan big time if Ukraine is given storm shadows and launches them into Russia. Could she handle that situation? I think not. I don't like Trump personally one bit. But I think he is capable.

[Anti Federalist]

And that's why we can't have nice things.

I'm not saying I'm right and you two are wrong. What I'm saying is, that's why the human race can't have nice things. Like Republicans, we'd rather preserve hell and our place in it than take a leap.

Don't have evidence. Do have this:

It's a strange psyop that convinces anyone that Trump is such a Guard, given his record.

His record is just what you said it was: that of a NYC "moderate" democrat.

[Theocrat]

And it's not just about war. He financed the jab and has never renounced it. I don't care if it's politically expedient or not. They're still pushing that jab in television commercials you and I are paying for. Anyone who can't stand up against it I have no use for.

Yes, that's another aspect of being pro-life. Trump believed all the lies that the vaccines were safety-tested, that they were 100% effective against COVID-19, and, most egregiously, that he was responsible for the success of getting the vaccines out through "Operation Warp Speed." He gambled with the lives of desperate Americans, and like you've said, to this day, he prides himself in getting the vaccines pushed through.