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Thread: Voting Is An Act of Violence

  1. #1

    Voting Is An Act of Violence


    by Hans Sherrer
    1999


    Voting is the most violent act someone can commit in their lifetime.


    This little noted anomaly about voting is directly related to the modern conception of the State as an entity deriving its grant of authority to act from the consent of the governed. The aura of legitimacy surrounding the government's actions is enhanced by the perceived role of voting as an expression of the “people's will.” Whether non-threatening or violent, the authority for each and every one of the government's actions is presumed to flow from the consent of the people through the electoral process. School children are told this from their earliest years.


    The idea the State derives its power to act from the consent of the people sounds romantic. Few people, however, are aware that by definition the State’s power is for the specific purpose of engaging in acts of violence. No grant of power is necessary for anyone, or any organization to act peacefully. This is no secret among scholars, and sociologist Max Weber's definition of the State is considered one of the most authoritative:


    “A state is a human institution that claims the monopoly of the legitimate use of physical force within a given territory. ... The state is considered the sole source of the `right' to use violence." [1]


    The legitimizing impact of voting on the government's exercise of power intimately involves voters in the use of that power. Which means that non-voters tend to delegitimize the exercise of a government's power as an expression of the “will of the people.” So if no one voted in an election or only a small percentage of people did, the government couldn't profess to be empowered to act as an agent of the “people's will.” Without the protective cover provided by voters, the government would have no pretense to act except as a law unto itself.


    Consequently, the government's actions and the voters who legitimize them are linked together. Thus at a minimum, voters are spiritually involved in every act engaged in by the government. Including all violent acts. This involvement in the government's violence isn't, tempered by the nominal peacefulness of a person’s life apart from voting. By choosing to vote a person integrates the violence engaged in by the government as a part of their life. This is just as true of people that didn't vote for a candidate who supports particular policies they may disagree with, as it is for those that did. It is going through the motion of voting that legitimizes the government to act in their name, not who or what they vote for.


    This means that the violence perpetrated by any one person pales in scope or significance when compared to that which is authorized to be taken by the government in the name of those who vote. The combined ghoulish violence of every identifiable serial killer in American history can't match the violence of even one of any number of violent actions taken by the government as the people's representative. A prominent example of this is the economic sanctions imposed on Iraq after the Gulf war in 1991. These sanction prevented Iraq from rebuilding its destroyed sanitation, water, and electric power infrastructure that were specifically targeted by the U. S. military for destruction. Supported and enforced by the U. S., these sanctions are credited by UNICEF and other organizations with contributing to the gruesome deaths of an estimated 3,000 to 5,000 children a month for over 8-1/2 years. [2] All voters share in the government's contribution to the unnecessary deaths of these children caused by disease and a reduced standard of living. So the over half-a-million deaths of innocent children in Iraq in the years after 1991’s Gulf war are on the blood stained hands of every voter in the U.S.


    The same dynamic of voter involvement in government atrocities is true of the many hundreds of civilian deaths caused by the bombing of Yugoslavian cities in the spring and summer of 1999 that the United States participated in. This was a small scale recreation of the atomic bombing of the non-military cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August 1945. Hundreds of thousands of innocent women, children and old people were killed from the initial bomb blasts and the long-term effects of radiation exposure. [3] Those bombings had been preceeded by the U.S. military’s killing of many hundreds of thousands of non-combatants during the firebombings of Tokyo, Hamburg, Dresden and Berlin. All of those people were killed in the name of the voters that had elected the Roosevelt administration in 1944 by a landslide. Voting, like a missile fired at an unseen target many miles away, is a long-distance method of cleanly participating in the most horrific violence imaginable.


    So declining to vote does much more than cause a statistical entry on the non-voting side of a ledger sheet. It is a positive way for a person to lower their level of moral responsibility for acts of violence engaged in by the government that they would never engage in personally, and that they don’t want to be committed in their name as a voter. Non-voting is a positive way for a person to publicly express the depth of their private belief in respecting the sanctity of life, and that violence is only justified in self-defense.


    The social sphere in which most people live is notable for the level of peaceful cooperation that normally prevails in it. The majority of people strive to better their lives by working together with other people in the pursuit of their mutual self-interest. [4] This community spirit of non-violent cooperation supported by non-voting, stands in sharp contrast to the societal violence endorsed by the act of voting,



    ENDNOTES

    [1] “Politics as a Vocation," Max Weber, in "From Max Weber: Essays in Sociology,” edited by C. Wright Mills, Oxford University Press, NY, 1946, p. 78.

    [2] See e.g., “Sanctions of Mass Destruction,” John Mueller and Karl Mueller, Foreign Affairs, May/June, 1999. vol. 78. no. 3, pp. 43-53; and, “U, S. Weapons of Mass Destruction Linked to Deaths of a Half-Million Children,” in “Censored 1999: The News That Didn't Make the News - The Year's Top 25 Censored Stories,” Peter Phillips and Project Censored, Seven Stories Press, NY, 1999, pp. 43-46.

    [3] See e.g., “Hiroshima: Why America Dropped the Atomic Bomb,” Ronald Takaki, Little Brown & Company. Boston, 1995; and, “Hiroshima in. America: A Half Century of Denial,” Robert Jay Lifton and Greg Mitchell, Avon, NY, 1996.

    [4] See e.g., “The Evolution of Cooperation,” Robert Axelrod, Basic Books, New York, 1984; “Hidden Order: How Adaptation Builds Complexity,” John H. Holland, Perseus Press, 1996; and, “Reputation: Studies in the Voluntary Elicitation of Good Conduct,” edited by Daniel B. Klein, University of Michigan Press, 1997.


    https://forejustice.org/vote/voting_...vSGou20DwYXF_A



    Books written by Hans Sherrer:

    https://www.forejustice.org/book.html
    ____________

    Mises Institute

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)



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  3. #2
    And pacifists get slaughtered and enslaved.

    Fight for your rights as best you can, even if it requires strange bedfellows.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    This is idiotic
    __________________________________________________ ________________
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  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And pacifists get slaughtered and enslaved.

    Fight for your rights as best you can, even if it requires strange bedfellows.
    I view voting as more of an act of submission. The whole point of voting is to pacify you into not fighting. Voting is a systemic means of control that cannot be used for effecting change.

    Participation in their system does nothing but signal obedience. (And aggregate participation, in fact, is a metric often used to measure the "legitimacy" of democratic elections)
    Last edited by TheTexan; 08-11-2024 at 08:25 PM.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    I view voting as more of an act of submission. The whole point of voting is to pacify you into not fighting. Voting is a systemic means of control that cannot be used for effecting change.

    Participation in their system does nothing but signal obedience. (And aggregate participation, in fact, is a metric often used to measure the "legitimacy" of democratic elections)
    Silence is consent, the only thing that is better than voting can't be discussed on the internet.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Silence is consent, the only thing that is better than voting can't be discussed on the internet.
    Silence is passive consent. Voting is active consent. I'd rather take the former.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Silence is consent
    I have $100 of gold in one bag and $100 of silver in another bag. One criminal wants my gold, the other criminal wants my silver. They both tell me that if I choose who to give it up to I will be protected from the other. If I don't vote for either one, which one am I giving consent to?

    the only thing that is better than voting can't be discussed on the internet.
    Yes it can. I talk about it all the time. So does Tom Massie. And Gary Barnett. And Larken Rose. But you're not really a secessionist, or an anarchist. You love big, intrusive government too much. You couldn't even dream about starving the state because everything that you advocate involves actually growing the government, adding more agencies, and costs tons of money.

    Or maybe it's just a man crush lol.
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    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post


    Voting is the most violent act someone can commit in their lifetime.
    So what's your solution?

    Remember that there's always going to be a state. It may not have a flag but whoever has the most guns makes the rules and is the state.



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  11. #9
    Don’t fool yourself. Lack of action is every bit as much giving consent.
    ================
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  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    So what's your solution?

    Remember that there's always going to be a state. It may not have a flag but whoever has the most guns makes the rules and is the state.
    Solution???

    Just because I don't vote doesn't mean that I don't contact senators and congresspeople. They hear from me all of the time. The problem is, when I voice my positions I am more than typically told: "huh, you're the first person who has called about this". So, that tells me that even those who do vote don't even bother to hold them accountable after they have cast their "consent".

    Other than that, I stay low and under, and look for ways to starve the state the best that I can.


    Tom Massie: "Noncompliance is more effective than voting." He's right, ya know
    Last edited by PAF; 08-12-2024 at 07:01 PM.
    ____________

    Mises Institute

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  13. #11
    A question for you, PAF. When Ron Paul ran for President, were you telling people not to vote?
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Don’t fool yourself. Lack of action is every bit as much giving consent.
    I agree, but voting is hardly "action"
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Tom Massie: "Noncompliance is more effective than voting." He's right, ya know
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  16. #14
    You can actually chew gum and walk at the same time. You can vote, if you believe you have an option of someone not globalist chosen, and you can non-comply with everything you don’t agree with.

    And Thomas Massie makes votes most every day that he is in DC.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    And Thomas Massie makes votes most every day that he is in DC.
    And look how much good it does
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    A question for you, PAF. When Ron Paul ran for President, were you telling people not to vote?
    My first foray into politics was for Ron Paul and I was wet behind the ears. I was a fast learner and took it upon myself to learn the voting process from the ground on up, worked local, state and national. Every one of my Ron Paul delegates won hands down in multiples of precincts that I coordinated. After the results were published, everybody under the sun who voted for Romney ran around with their heads cut off accusing "democrats" of "rigging the election". It wasn't until just before I attended the RNC Convention in Tampa that I learned where the true corruption was, and that there was no way they would let Ron near the general ballot. Things are decided behind closed doors and reserved for the preapproved.

    Anyway, I have grown since then, and realize what true liberty is and means, which is where I am now. It wasn't all in vein, I have many fun memories and friends across the country who I still keep in touch with.

    I can say that you have a better chance local and state, if you have the money and put a whole lot of time into it. But that isn't productive either, once in power, power corrupts, and the people still haven't learned what being principled is all about. Which goes back to "voting is an act of violence". I've backed down from all of that and decided to enjoy my time doing fun things and traveling, while doing what Ron suggests which is reaching out to others to spread the message of liberty and introduce them to Mises. That's the purpose of my Liberty Group which meets every so often. And I get to eat good food.



    BTW, did you get a chance to hear Ron's secret message at 35:30 ? I don't want to give it away, but it didn't have anything to do with voting.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...ses-University
    Last edited by PAF; 08-12-2024 at 08:21 PM.
    ____________

    Mises Institute

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Solution???
    Tom Massie: "Noncompliance is more effective than voting." He's right, ya know
    The Democrats will tell you the United States is a democracy. The GOP will counter with, "No, the US is a republic, if you can keep it."

    Both are full of bullsiht. What the US has is a two party system of governance; despite the founders never intending that (naivety at its most naive - George Washington railed against political parties, but the system the founders set up guarantees that two such parties would control the government). The candidates elected to office originate from one of the two major parties with an occasional third party candidate being elected (think of them as rare birth defects). Once in office, they represent their parties, not their constituents. The dominant parties in each legislative body control the chairpersonships of the committees in their respective houses. The party that controls the imperial presidency exerts control over the bureaucracies that run the federal government. You can think of the judiciary (the Supreme Court) as the long-term political party climate when compared to the political party weather that passes through the other two branches of federal government. The people that hold these offices don't hold allegiance to their constituents but rather to the political parties they belong to - their political survival (and long-term employment and under the table wealth) depend upon "allegiance to the Party" (thank goodness people in the US have two to choose from, the people in the Soviet Union only had one ... at least having two choices allows all the bases to be covered).

    Each party in the legislative branch has a 'Chief Whip', a senior party member whose job is to ensure discipline within their party (that's in Article something or other in the Constitution, right?). They make sure their members vote the right way; though occasionally they'll allow a divergence if one member's vote is not absolutely required, and that member's dissenting (though losing) vote will help assure that member's re-election. And if a member happens to develop a conscience, the Whip books them into surgery to get the filthy thing removed.
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 08-12-2024 at 09:52 PM.
    Global Climate Change??? How dare we??? Well, I think until Mother Earth gives us the safe word, we're OK.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    I agree, but voting is hardly "action"
    And not voting is hardly "lack of action" (unless one imagines that voting is the only possible mode of "action").
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
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    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

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  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    And not voting is hardly "lack of action" (unless one imagines that voting is the only possible mode of "action").
    It's a lack of one action, you can engage in multiple actions, you don't have to not vote in order to do something else.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    You can actually chew gum and walk at the same time. You can vote, if you believe you have an option of someone not globalist chosen, and you can non-comply with everything you don’t agree with.

    And Thomas Massie makes votes most every day that he is in DC.
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Solution???

    Just because I don't vote doesn't mean that I don't contact senators and congresspeople. They hear from me all of the time. The problem is, when I voice my positions I am more than typically told: "huh, you're the first person who has called about this". So, that tells me that even those who do vote don't even bother to hold them accountable after they have cast their "consent".

    Other than that, I stay low and under, and look for ways to starve the state the best that I can.


    Tom Massie: "Noncompliance is more effective than voting." He's right, ya know
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    And look how much good it does
    Thomas Massie and Cory Bush for both targetted by AIPAC for not bowing to their demands regarding Isreal. Cory Bush lost her seat but now she feels libertated to go after AIPAC directly. Time will tell if she's effective in this but I wish her well in that endeavor and I hope it takes up most of her time because I probably disagree with a lot of other things she'd like to accomplish as she goes back into her activist role.



    I wonder what would have happened with this movement if, back in 2008, we came to the conclusion that building a powerful movement was the real goal as opposed to getting Ron Paul elected? Imagine "moneybombs" to fund TV ads every election cycle based on issues as opposed hoping there are actually candidates to support. Imagine if we still had the power to sway online polls. Imagine if everyone who was around in 2008 was still around, not for the purpose of trying to get someone elected POTUS, but to burn up the congressional switchboards everytime a bad bill was being considered which is basically every day congress is in session? But no. People didn't see the big picture and we are where we are.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Imagine if everyone who was around in 2008 was still around, not for the purpose of trying to get someone elected POTUS, but to burn up the congressional switchboards everytime a bad bill was being considered which is basically every day congress is in session? But no. People didn't see the big picture and we are where we are.
    Not a machine, but rather a lobbying group. Don't play in the mud of division, unite people for the purpose of holding politicians' feet to the fire and making them keep a promise or two.

    Damn! Why didn't you toss this idea out in 2008?! It mighta worked!

    Better than sitting in the air conditioning and trying to get each other banned for being just exactly as impolite as we are.

  25. #22
    Probably because people were here for different reasons: Using RP to further their own agenda about 9-11, some because they wanted drugs legalized, etc.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Probably because people were here for different reasons: Using RP to further their own agenda about 9-11, some because they wanted drugs legalized, etc.
    What was/is your reason?
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    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    The Democrats will tell you the United States is a democracy. The GOP will counter with, "No, the US is a republic, if you can keep it."

    Both are full of bullsiht. What the US has is a two party system of governance; despite the founders never intending that (naivety at its most naive - George Washington railed against political parties, but the system the founders set up guarantees that two such parties would control the government). The candidates elected to office originate from one of the two major parties with an occasional third party candidate being elected (think of them as rare birth defects). Once in office, they represent their parties, not their constituents. The dominant parties in each legislative body control the chairpersonships of the committees in their respective houses. The party that controls the imperial presidency exerts control over the bureaucracies that run the federal government. You can think of the judiciary (the Supreme Court) as the long-term political party climate when compared to the political party weather that passes through the other two branches of federal government. The people that hold these offices don't hold allegiance to their constituents but rather to the political parties they belong to - their political survival (and long-term employment and under the table wealth) depend upon "allegiance to the Party" (thank goodness people in the US have two to choose from, the people in the Soviet Union only had one ... at least having two choices allows all the bases to be covered).

    Each party in the legislative branch has a 'Chief Whip', a senior party member whose job is to ensure discipline within their party (that's in Article something or other in the Constitution, right?). They make sure their members vote the right way; though occasionally they'll allow a divergence if one member's vote is not absolutely required, and that member's dissenting (though losing) vote will help assure that member's re-election. And if a member happens to develop a conscience, the Whip books them into surgery to get the filthy thing removed.
    I can’t imagine many, if any, here, pledges allegiance to any political party and if they did, it’s probably the Libertarian Party. lol
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    What was/is your reason?
    That’s easy. Ron Paul. You know, Ron Paul Forums. I started here when he was running for President. You?
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

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  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    I can’t imagine many, if any, here, pledges allegiance to any political party...
    One doesn't need any imagination. One merely needs to be able to read.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    One doesn't need any imagination. One merely needs to be able to read.
    Oh really? Sometimes it is fairly obvious where someone’s history is, but I don’t think many here are straight ticket voters. I know I’m not.
    ================
    Open Borders: A Libertarian Reappraisal or why only dumbasses and cultural marxists are for it.

    Cultural Marxism: The Corruption of America

    The Property Basis of Rights

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Oh really? Sometimes it is fairly obvious where someone’s history is, but I don’t think many here are straight ticket voters. I know I’m not.
    I don't need many. You said you weren't sure there were any. And if there were, they had to be LP.

    @spudea, I thought you were loyal to the GOP. It seems someone doubts you. Obviously you don't agree with everything every one of them says, and I'm glad for you that you don't seem to suffer the quandary of living in Graham's district. But the lady seems to be interested to know when the last time was you voted for someone who lacked that (R).
    Last edited by acptulsa; 08-13-2024 at 09:28 AM.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    That’s easy. Ron Paul. You know, Ron Paul Forums. I started here when he was running for President.
    That doesn't really answer my question.


    You?
    I came here from the DailyPaul and during the campaign I was seeking ideas and others who wanted to assist in promoting Ron Paul's message of liberty. Many of the folks who I remain in contact with no longer post on this site and have likewise adopted minarchism/anarchism. I'm not the worlds best conversationalist, but I am an information sponge and never stop learning. Liberty does come from within, but I enjoy reading different views because at times it helps me to hone in why I believe the way that I do, which helps me communicate more effectively during my Liberty Group meetings. Among all of the Trump/Other-Humping, I enjoy reposting articles which may help others connect the dots, hoping that over time, others will eventually realize that government/politicians is not the solution, but rather each individual becoming as principled and dedicated to the foundations of liberty as they possibly can. This won't be solved overnight and probably never will. But if nationalism and/or communism can take root, so can liberty. It takes one person at a time, and with each and every one, it can add up, and eventually maybe we can John Galt this thing. But it's certainly never going to happen by continuing to promote/vote for lesser of evil, simply because that only keeps their system alive.
    ____________

    Mises Institute

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Probably because people were here for different reasons: Using RP to further their own agenda about 9-11, some because they wanted drugs legalized, etc.
    Funny, but 9-11 conspirary theories have more basis in reality than the conspiracy theories that led to January 6th. The reason the truth needed to get out about that is the same reason the truth needed to get out about COVID. Regardless of who wins any particular election, the PTB advance their agendas on a bedrock of lies. Trump came much closer to embracing 9-11 truth than Ron Paul or Rand Paul ever did, straight up telling Jeb Bush to his face that his brother didn't protect the country on 9-11, and guess who got elected president?





    In comparison to Donald Trump pointing out the obvious failures of "dubya" in the lead up to 9-11, Ron Paul stubbornly stuck to the "blowback" theory, which alienated most Republican voters, and Ron flubbed the question "Some of your supporters think that the government let 9-11 happen or covered it up." Ron should have said "Well I agree that there was a cover up" because that's the position he had taken multiple times. Had he taken the Donald Trump position that in that debate that Donald Trump took which is at the very least the idea that 9-11 couldn't have been prevented is a flat out lie, he might have won the presidency. But he took the Michael Scheuer "blowback" position without the benefit of having Michael Scheuer on the campain trail because Mr. Scheuer is so openly critical of U.S. policy towards Israel. Yes I know. It's shocking that on this one issue I agree with Donald Trump more than I do Ron Paul. But the proof is in the pudding. The idea that 9-11 conspiracy theories needed to be suppressed for Ron Paul to win was rediculous then and asinine now in hindsight. Even Tucker Carlson who infamously walked out on the "Rally For The Republic" over Jesse Ventura bringing up 9/11 is basically now himself a 9/11 truther and has openly talked about WTC 7.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

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