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Thread: SCOTUS: Presidents have Immunity for Official Acts

  1. #1

    SCOTUS: Presidents have Immunity for Official Acts

    RELATED: Trump indictment #3: 2020 election & January 6th [US / federal]

    Supreme Court says Trump has absolute immunity for core acts only
    https://www.npr.org/2024/07/01/nx-s1...trump-immunity

    The U.S. Supreme Court, in a 6-3 decision along ideological lines, ruled that a former president has absolute immunity for his core constitutional powers — and is entitled to a presumption of immunity for his official acts, but lacks immunity for unofficial acts. But at the same time, the court sent the case back to the trial judge to determine which, if any of Trump's actions, were part of his official duties and thus were protected from prosecution.

    That part of the court’s decision likely ensures that the case against Trump won’t be tried before the election, and then only if he is not reelected. If he is reelected, Trump could order the Justice Department to drop the charges against him, or he might try to pardon himself in the two pending federal cases.

    Chief Justice John Roberts wrote the court’s decision, joined by his fellow conservatives. Dissenting were the three liberals, Justices Elena Kagan, Sonia Sotomayor and Ketanji Brown Jackson.

    Monday's decision to send the case back to trial Judge Tanya Chutkan all but guarantees that there will be no Trump trial on the election interference charges for months. Even before the immunity case, Judge Chutkan indicated that trial preparations would likely take three months. Now, she will also have to decide which of the charges in the Trump indictment should remain and which involve official acts that under the Supreme Court ruling are protected from prosecution.

    Even after Judge Chutkan separates the constitutional wheat from the chaff, Trump could seek further delays, as immunity questions are among the very few that may be appealed prior to trial.

    Monday's Supreme Court decision came months after the court agreed to hear the case Feb. 28 and scheduled arguments for two months later. Court critics have noted that the justices could have considered the case as early as in December, when Justice Department special counsel Jack Smith unsuccessfully sought review of the same questions later put forward by Trump.

    All of this stands in stark contrast to the way the court has handled other presidential power cases. In 1974 the justices ruled against President Nixon just 16 days after hearing oral arguments. The vote was 8-0, with Justice William Rehnquist recusing himself because of his close ties to some of the officials accused of wrongdoing in the case. And this year the court took less than a month to rule unanimously that states could not bar Trump from the ballot.
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 07-01-2024 at 01:05 PM. Reason: added "RELATED" link
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  3. #2
    Kicking it back for a very billable do-over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Rogers
    Every time a lawyer writes something, he is not writing for posterity. He is writing so that endless others of his craft can make a living out of trying to figure out what he said.

  4. #3
    https://x.com/JackPosobiec/status/1807796152353321226

    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    https://x.com/JackPosobiec/status/1807796152353321226

    Either that, or they finally learned how to meme.

    A president should no more have absolute immunity for how he does his job than a cop should. And what they're saying is far from the only reason why. Did it ever occur to you how this might be used to shield officials from liability for biological warfare?

    No wonder the two party system screws us every time. The Democrats think the president should be accountable for what he does, but think he should do too much. The Republicans say he shouldn't do anything, but should be able to do whatever the hell he wants. And nobody can figure out why we always get someone who does way too much of whatever the hell he wants.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 07-01-2024 at 10:30 AM.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Did it ever occur to you how this might be used to shield officials from liability for biological warfare?
    More importantly, it occurred to them.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    More importantly, it occurred to them.
    The GOP: SCOTUS picks to die for.

    And people say this whole clown soap opera isn't just one big psyop. Sure is accomplishing very bad things like a psyop. If you don't want Biden to be completely immune from being held accountable, it's because you love Biden, right?

  8. #7
    I don't like executive immunity, but I can understand how it helps to stabilize a governmental system. I wish Clinton, Bush, and Obama were all in jail for their crimes, but it never happened. So, I at least want consistency. Trump was already impeached, tried, and acquitted of these charges in the Senate. Double jeopardy is illegal.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    Trump was already impeached, tried, and acquitted of these charges in the Senate. Double jeopardy is illegal.
    For God's sake

    Quote Originally Posted by that piece of parchment that Republicans claim to revere, but never seem to read:
    [N]or shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb...
    All impeachment can put someone in jeopardy of is getting fired. The person who has not been twice in jeopardy of being canned hasn't worked a day in his life.

    According to you, even if these GOP-picked SCOTUS justices weren't ruling in favor of tyranny, all a Clinton, Obama or Biden has to do to escape accountability is to get impeached. If he's found guilty, he only gets fired. His "life or limb" thus having been jeopardized, according to you, he cannot then be indicted, judged and jailed.

    Why are you running cover for Biden, you Demoncrat?
    Last edited by acptulsa; 07-01-2024 at 11:24 AM.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    All impeachment can put someone in jeopardy of is getting fired. The person who has not been twice in jeopardy of being canned hasn't worked a day in his life.

    According to you, even if these GOP-picked SCOTUS justices weren't ruling in favor of tyranny, all a Clinton, Obama or Biden has to do to escape accountability is to get impeached. If he's found guilty, he only gets fired. His "life or limb" thus having been jeopardized, according to you, he cannot then be indicted, judged and jailed.
    If that's true, there was no reason for Ford to pardon Nixon, if Nixon only faced losing his job. Impeachment 100% influences the judicial remedies. If trump was convicted in the senate, that's the same as determining he committed treason against the USA, and the penalty for treason can be death.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  12. #10
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    If that's true, there was no reason for Ford to pardon Nixon, if Nixon only faced losing his job.
    Nixon quit. That put a quick halt to the impeachment process, for the same reason companies don't issue pink slips to people who have given their two weeks notice.

    Nixon was then in real jeopardy, as he was holding no office and could therefore be indicted. Indictment is the road to jail. All impeachment was going to do to him was what he did to himself -- he made himself unemployed.

    What's so damned difficult about this that Trump fanbois refuse to grasp it? It's so simple I'd be embarrassed if I had something this simple explained to me this often and I still didn't have a grip on it.

    One more time, like y'all are kindergarteners: There are several kinds of trials, but only criminal trials put one in jeopardy of life or limb (or freedom). Civil trials don't. Impeachment trials don't. Only criminal trials do that. Why? Because neither paying damages nor getting fired is considered the same thing as hanging by the neck until dead.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 07-01-2024 at 12:48 PM.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    //

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Trump has raised fresh questions about his intentions if he regains power by putting forward a legal theory that a president would be free to do nearly anything with impunity — including assassinate political rivals — so long as Congress can’t muster the votes to impeach him and throw him out of office.
    Torturing prisoners (Bush) ... drone-assassinating American citizens (Obama) ... bombing countries without Congressional approval (Biden) ...

    Where could this "legal theory that a president [is] free to do nearly anything with impunity" possibly have come from?

    It's such a baffling mystery!
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·

  15. #13
    I always find it interesting what simple concepts the entire MSM consider things that must be made complex and obfuscated. The I's have plenty of those: immunization, inflation and impeachment. I don't care how they try to redefine them or make them seem confusing. Immunizations are nothing but dead virus. Inflation is too much money supply for the demand. And to impeach someone is simply to fire them. It never stopped anyone from being indicted afterward, and never will.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    What's so damned difficult about this that Trump fanbois refuse to grasp it?
    Believe whatever you want. You obviously disagree with the Supreme Court ruling. Another L for you.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  17. #15
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  18. #16



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    Believe whatever you want. You obviously disagree with the Supreme Court ruling. Another L for you.
    This ruling has zero effect on what I said. Zero.

    What Nixon got in hot water about, for example, had nothing to do with his official duties. It is not a presidential duty to spy on your opponents during a reelection campaign. So if you think this ruling would have changed a thing in his case, you're wearing that L of yours.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    [...]

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Trump has raised fresh questions about his intentions if he regains power by putting forward a legal theory that a president would be free to do nearly anything with impunity — including assassinate political rivals — so long as Congress can’t muster the votes to impeach him and throw him out of office.
    Torturing prisoners (Bush) ... drone-assassinating American citizens (Obama) ... bombing countries without Congressional approval (Biden) ...

    Where could this "legal theory that a president [is] free to do nearly anything with impunity" possibly have come from?

    It's such a baffling mystery!
    https://x.com/AnarchoXP/status/1807940227962474926

  22. #19

  23. #20
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  24. #21

  25. #22
    So what else is new?



    And then the mental lightweights weigh in.



    Last edited by acptulsa; 07-02-2024 at 05:09 AM.

  26. #23
    So, do we start calling presidents Caesar now?
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    So what else is new?


    Make no mistake. This isn't about the left's problem with the ruling. This is about how they intend to exploit it in the future.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Make no mistake. This isn't about the left's problem with the ruling. This is about how they intend to exploit it in the future.
    Future?!

    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    So what else is new?

    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    No, I was asking what else. You know. Something new.

  32. #28
    If presidents didn't have absolute immunity, every president in history would leave office and go directly to prison.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    If presidents didn't have absolute immunity, every president in history would leave office and go directly to prison.
    Can we add that to the Constitution??
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Can we add that to the Constitution??
    I'm not sure how I feel about this. I don't like the idea of immunity but it seems like it might lead to a dictatorship since no one in office would ever want to leave and face prison time.

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