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Thread: Boeing's Starliner capsule leaking helium.

  1. #1

    Boeing's Starliner capsule leaking helium.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nasa-ex...ruster-issues/


    "Boeing's leak-prone Starliner capsule will remain docked to the International Space Station for an additional four days, NASA announced Tuesday, returning to Earth with a pre-dawn landing at White Sands, New Mexico, on June 26 to close out an extended 20-day test flight — the first with astronauts aboard.

    The additional docked time will give Starliner commander Barry "Butch" Wilmore and co-pilot Sunita Williams more time to help out aboard the station while flight controllers continue scrutinizing telemetry and finalizing plans for re-entry with five known helium leaks in the capsule's propulsion system and unexpected behavior in multiple maneuvering jets."



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  3. #2
    https://x.com/MrJerryGoode/status/1805375984990138497


  4. #3

  5. #4
    Another quality Boeing product. Amazing how miserably this public/private partnership has failed, while Musk has been so successful.

    Boeing is now a poster child for big bureaucratic, big government, big money incompetence. A company and projects driven by corrupt cronyism and woke leftist politics instead of actual engineering. Without Space X as an example of competence, everyone would just be saying "but this is very complex and difficult, and these problems are to be expected."
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Another quality Boeing product. Amazing how miserably this public/private partnership has failed, while Musk has been so successful.

    Boeing is now a poster child for big bureaucratic, big government, big money incompetence. A company and projects driven by corrupt cronyism and woke leftist politics instead of actual engineering. Without Space X as an example of competence, everyone would just be saying "but this is very complex and difficult, and these problems are to be expected."

    Though Tesla has paid back the loans, Musk takes government subsidies nonetheless [yes, I know, they all do :-( ].

    Elon Musk is speaking out against government subsidies. Here's a list of the billions of dollars his businesses have received.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  7. #6
    RIP Barry "Butch" Wilmore.

    RIP Sunita Williams.

  8. #7
    I guess he should bang her just in case this is it.

    But how do you explain it to your SOs if you survive?

  9. #8
    Are the radio calls hilarious?
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Ryan
    In Washington you can see them everywhere: the Parasites and baby Stalins sucking the life out of a once-great nation.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Boeing is now a poster child for big bureaucratic, big government, big money incompetence. A company and projects driven by corrupt cronyism and woke leftist politics instead of actual engineering. Without Space X as an example of competence, everyone would just be saying "but this is very complex and difficult, and these problems are to be expected."
    Putting numbers to that:

    The Commercial Crew Development contracts were awarded to Boeing and SpaceX on 2014SEP16.

    Space X was awarded $2.6 billion to build the Dragon V2 spacecraft, an upgraded version of the Dragon spacecraft that was already in use to transport cargo to and from the ISS. SpaceX launched the first manned flight of the Crew Dragon (with 4 crew members) to the ISS on 2020NOV16.

    Boeing was awarded $4.2 billion to build the CST-100 spacecraft, which it had been working on since the initial phases of NASA’s commercial crew program in 2010. Boeing launched the first manned flight of the CST-100 (with 2 crew members) to the ISS on 2024JUN05. Not only was the Boeing contract more expensive than that of SpaceX, and execution to the goal significantly longer; but it's greater than $1.5 billion over budget (that it's going to have to eat on its own).
    I was put into jail as I was going to the shoemaker's to get a shoe which was mended. When I was let out the next morning, I proceeded to finish my errand, and, having put on my mended shoe, joined a huckleberry party, who were impatient to put themselves under my conduct; and in half an hour- for the horse was soon tackled- was in the midst of a huckleberry field, on one of our highest hills, two miles off, and then the State was nowhere to be seen.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    Putting numbers to that:

    The Commercial Crew Development contracts were awarded to Boeing and SpaceX on 2014SEP16.

    Space X was awarded $2.6 billion to build the Dragon V2 spacecraft, an upgraded version of the Dragon spacecraft that was already in use to transport cargo to and from the ISS. SpaceX launched the first manned flight of the Crew Dragon (with 4 crew members) to the ISS on 2020NOV16.

    Boeing was awarded $4.2 billion to build the CST-100 spacecraft, which it had been working on since the initial phases of NASA’s commercial crew program in 2010. Boeing launched the first manned flight of the CST-100 (with 2 crew members) to the ISS on 2024JUN05. Not only was the Boeing contract more expensive than that of SpaceX, and execution to the goal significantly longer; but it's greater than $1.5 billion over budget (that it's going to have to eat on its own).
    Insane. Boeing has been working on it since 2010. Incompetence and waste. But at least they have a global team and a super great DEI score!
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  13. #11
    I don't keep up with the NASA nonsense, but wasn't there a time when there was a russian capsule there about all the time just in case they had to bug out? Or did I mis-remember that.

    For that matter, are the Russians still participating in the space station?

    Hopefully, if it comes down to it, our brave astronuts will understand why we can't allow the Russians to save them.

    Slava Ukraini and all......

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Insane. Boeing has been working on it since 2010. Incompetence and waste. But at least they have a global team and a super great DEI score!
    Are you sure you have that acronym correct? I thought it was DIE (Diversity, Inclusion and Equity) - probably more applicable to manned space-based projects than your typical office environment.
    I was put into jail as I was going to the shoemaker's to get a shoe which was mended. When I was let out the next morning, I proceeded to finish my errand, and, having put on my mended shoe, joined a huckleberry party, who were impatient to put themselves under my conduct; and in half an hour- for the horse was soon tackled- was in the midst of a huckleberry field, on one of our highest hills, two miles off, and then the State was nowhere to be seen.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by sparebulb View Post
    I don't keep up with the NASA nonsense, but wasn't there a time when there was a russian capsule there about all the time just in case they had to bug out? Or did I mis-remember that.
    ...
    IIRC, you are correct. But it would have to land in Russia, and the optics would be pretty bad. Plus the emergency escape pod would then be gone...
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    Are you sure you have that acronym correct? I thought it was DIE (Diversity, Inclusion and Equity) - probably more applicable to manned space-based projects than your typical office environment.
    It's correct.

    DIE was a completely different project -- the DNA Injection by Eugenicists.

  17. #15
    Keep in mind, also, that the Falcon 9 boosters, which Crew Dragon launches on, are reusable. That decreases the life cycle costs of using SpaceX. The Atlas 5 boosters, that Starliner uses, are completely expendable.

    Landing vertically - as Robert Heinlein and Max Hunter intended:

    I was put into jail as I was going to the shoemaker's to get a shoe which was mended. When I was let out the next morning, I proceeded to finish my errand, and, having put on my mended shoe, joined a huckleberry party, who were impatient to put themselves under my conduct; and in half an hour- for the horse was soon tackled- was in the midst of a huckleberry field, on one of our highest hills, two miles off, and then the State was nowhere to be seen.

  18. #16
    I've always thought that the video of the boosters landing seemed fake.



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  20. #17
    I saw this yesterday and had a chuckle even though it's not what it's characterized as being:


  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by sparebulb View Post
    I don't keep up with the NASA nonsense, but wasn't there a time when there was a russian capsule there about all the time just in case they had to bug out? Or did I mis-remember that.
    Yes, there are currently two Soyuz spacecraft docked at the ISS. Soyuz-25 left Earth in March carrying three cosmonauts to the ISS. It'll stay there until September when it'll return two Russian cosmonauts and one US astronaut to Earth (so it's already booked).

    And then there's Soyuz MS-23, which was sent uncrewed to the ISS to replace Soyuz MS-22, which launched in September 2022 carrying a full crew of three. That replacement was necessary in order to allow transport back to Earth for three ISS crew that had been stranded there when Soyuz MS-22 developed coolant leaks. So MS-23 is also fully booked.

    Quote Originally Posted by sparebulb View Post
    For that matter, are the Russians still participating in the space station?
    Yes, Russia is still involved in the ISS, at least through 2028. It's made noises that its participation will end at that point, which leaves the ISS at a loss in one particularly critical area, Propulsion (to periodically boost its orbit as well as to avoid space debris).
    I was put into jail as I was going to the shoemaker's to get a shoe which was mended. When I was let out the next morning, I proceeded to finish my errand, and, having put on my mended shoe, joined a huckleberry party, who were impatient to put themselves under my conduct; and in half an hour- for the horse was soon tackled- was in the midst of a huckleberry field, on one of our highest hills, two miles off, and then the State was nowhere to be seen.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Bern View Post
    I saw this yesterday and had a chuckle even though it's not what it's characterized as being:

    😂😂😂

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Boeing is now a poster child for big bureaucratic, big government, big money incompetence. A company and projects driven by corrupt cronyism and woke leftist politics instead of actual engineering. Without Space X as an example of competence, everyone would just be saying "but this is very complex and difficult, and these problems are to be expected."
    This is what happens in cost+ government contracts. It's a blank check with no risk.


    SpaceX would (will) have the exact problems if they were given the same contract.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    This is what happens in cost+ government contracts. It's a blank check with no risk.


    SpaceX would (will) have the exact problems if they were given the same contract.
    While it's not a public company and Elon runs the show I don't think that's necessarily the case. Expansions would happen faster probably but focus at SpaceX is on the shortest route to success, not necessarily the cheapest option.
    "I am a bird"

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    This is what happens in cost+ government contracts. It's a blank check with no risk.
    Except that neither Starliner nor Crew Dragon were cost plus contracts; they're both fixed price. As I mentioned earlier, Boeing is already in the hole for over a billion $$ on Starliner - which is being paid on Boeing's dime. But I think that's just on the development costs. I don't think it includes any operational overruns (like for mission control for extra missions or extra time on orbit).

    Edited to add
    Keep in mind though, that requirements for fixed-riced systems are frozen at the time the proposals for the contracts were submitted. That means you're now dealing with requirements from a decade ago, despite anything you've learned since then. Contractors charge through the nose for any ECRs the government requests.
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 06-25-2024 at 12:51 PM.
    I was put into jail as I was going to the shoemaker's to get a shoe which was mended. When I was let out the next morning, I proceeded to finish my errand, and, having put on my mended shoe, joined a huckleberry party, who were impatient to put themselves under my conduct; and in half an hour- for the horse was soon tackled- was in the midst of a huckleberry field, on one of our highest hills, two miles off, and then the State was nowhere to be seen.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    While it's not a public company and Elon runs the show I don't think that's necessarily the case. Expansions would happen faster probably but focus at SpaceX is on the shortest route to success, not necessarily the cheapest option.
    At some point in Boeing's past that was also the case
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    At some point in Boeing's past that was also the case
    Yes, and when the key people driving things now are replaced, things will be different...
    "I am a bird"



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    Yes, and when the key people driving things now are replaced, things will be different...
    I don't believe in great man theory
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  30. #26
    I guess it needed thicker star lining
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    I don't believe in great man theory
    Do you believe in incompetent bastard theory?

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    I guess it needed thicker star lining
    OR ...

    I was put into jail as I was going to the shoemaker's to get a shoe which was mended. When I was let out the next morning, I proceeded to finish my errand, and, having put on my mended shoe, joined a huckleberry party, who were impatient to put themselves under my conduct; and in half an hour- for the horse was soon tackled- was in the midst of a huckleberry field, on one of our highest hills, two miles off, and then the State was nowhere to be seen.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    I don't believe in great man theory
    In aerospace, it isn't so much Great Man Theory as it is institutional knowledge known only to specific individuals and not passed along to their successors. Boeing's 737 franchise started from a design in the early 1960's, and to a large extent it still builds aircraft in the same fashion as it did back then. It's the same with their space systems. The ISS was designed in the mid-to-late 70's. Boeing's design processes have been updated since then, but those updates are layered upon that mid-20th-century backbone.

    SpaceX, on the other hand, is building their space systems like they did in the 2000's. Their design processes were new at that point. Less dependence on the wise old Yoda's from decades ago.
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 06-25-2024 at 02:03 PM.
    I was put into jail as I was going to the shoemaker's to get a shoe which was mended. When I was let out the next morning, I proceeded to finish my errand, and, having put on my mended shoe, joined a huckleberry party, who were impatient to put themselves under my conduct; and in half an hour- for the horse was soon tackled- was in the midst of a huckleberry field, on one of our highest hills, two miles off, and then the State was nowhere to be seen.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Voluntarist View Post
    It isn't so much Great Man Theory as it is institutional knowledge known only to specific individuals and not passed along to their successors. Boeing's 737 franchise started from a design in the early 1960's, and to a large extent it still builds aircraft in the same fashion as it did back then.
    Truth be known, the 737 is very little different from the 707, which entered revenue passenger service in 1958. The biggest change has been the elimination of two engines.

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