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Thread: Some states look to eliminate property taxes?

  1. #1

    Lightbulb Some states look to eliminate property taxes?

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  3. #2
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  4. #3
    about time!

    insidious
    predatory
    evil
    FLIP THOSE FLAGS, THE NATION IS IN DISTRESS!


    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  5. #4
    Any state eliminating property tax will replace revenue w/ additional tax. I despise property tax . Do you trust a govt to replace 1/2 of revenue ?
    Do something Danke

  6. #5
    Any state that follows through with this is completely based. Of course we can easily eliminate NY and CA as states that would do this.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  7. #6

  8. #7

    As long as it exists you are serfs with a landlord.
    The only property tax that is conscionable is one on unused land.

    At a minimum primary residences must be exempt.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    As long as it exists you are serfs with a landlord.
    The only property tax that is conscionable is one on unused land.
    I realize you're just as into arrogantly modifying individual behavior as any Left Statist who ever breathed. But I'd still be amused to hear just how the amount of use some land is getting has an effect on whether its owner is a serf with a landlord.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I realize you're just as into arrogantly modifying individual behavior as any Left Statist who ever breathed. But I'd still be amused to hear just how the amount of use some land is getting has an effect on whether its owner is a serf with a landlord.
    I'd be amused to hear you explain how paying a nominal sum to the state once justifies being able to tell everyone else that you the dog in the manger will not allow anyone else to use this land that you are not using, it's only right that you should have to help pay for the proper and necessary functions of government to keep land fallow.
    In olden times you owned land by homesteading it and putting it to use in some way, it didn't belong to government and government couldn't tell people they couldn't go out and make use of it.
    Rich men buying land from the state, not using it, and telling everyone else they can't use it is just neofeudalism.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    ...it's only right that you should have to help pay for the proper and necessary functions of government to keep land fallow.
    I didn't realize it took so much government effort to keep land fallow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Rich men buying land from the state, not using it, and telling everyone else they can't use it is just neofeudalism.
    I love it when you fervently avow that the only way to prevent something -- like feudalism -- is by invoking the power of government, without which feudalism would never have existed because government invented the stuff.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Any state eliminating property tax will replace revenue w/ additional tax. I despise property tax . Do you trust a govt to replace 1/2 of revenue ?
    You're probably right but in a free country, an individual should be able to own property.

    Not lease it for eternity.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I didn't realize it took so much government effort to keep land fallow.



    I love it when you fervently avow that the only way to prevent something -- like feudalism -- is by invoking the power of government, without which feudalism would never have existed because government invented the stuff.
    We will always have and need some government, as long as we do one of its primary functions will be recording and enforcing ownership of land.
    If the government sells land to oligarchs it will enforce their ownership of it.
    You have two options; not allowing ownership of unused land, or allowing ownership with taxes on it to deter anyone from buying up giant swaths of land and denying them to everyone else while also lowering the tax burden.
    Taxes on unused land are avoidable, just don't buy land and leave it unused, that's the good thing about consumption taxes. (and locking up land that you don't even use is consumption)
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    If the government sells land to oligarchs it will enforce their ownership of it.
    That's twice you've talked like nobody has land to sell but the government.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    Last edited by acptulsa; 06-21-2024 at 06:40 AM.

  16. #14
    And replace them with what?
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    That's twice you've talked like nobody has land to sell but the government.
    All unused land was sold by the government originally.
    The only other way to acquire land was to homestead it and make use of it.

    One billionaire selling the land he bought to leave fallow and deny to everyone else to another billionaire who wants to do the same thing is just feudal lords trading land among themselves while denying it to the peasants.

    All unused land in private ownership is an extension of the original collusion by government with the ruling class to deny land to the peasants.
    Those who hold ownership of unused land (enforced by the government) can pay property taxes to lower the tax burden just like the original guy who paid a nominal sum to the government, OR they can make use of it in some way and earn ownership to cease paying taxes on it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    All unused land was sold by the government originally.
    The only other way to acquire land was to homestead it and make use of it.
    He's trying to lecture me on history and he has never heard of a land grant. Never heard of a land grant college, never heard of a land grant railroad, and presumes himself professor.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    He's trying to lecture me on history and he has never heard of a land grant. Never heard of a land grant college, never heard of a land grant railroad, and presumes himself professor.
    Gifts by the government to people who made no use of the land are no help to you.
    I was being charitable to only deal with land that was paid for.
    You do know that government gifting unused land to ruling class people who then claim it but make no use of it is even more feudal, right?

    And how is a college or a railroad not using the land? any land used by the college or railroad is irrelevant to this discussion.

    A land-grant university (also called land-grant college or land-grant institution) is an institution of higher education in the United States designated by a state to receive the benefits of the Morrill Acts of 1862 and 1890,[1] or a beneficiary under the Equity in Educational Land-Grant Status Act of 1994.[2] There are 57 institutions which fall under the 1862 Act, 19 under the 1890 Act, and 35 under the 1994 Act.
    With Southerners absent during the Civil War, Republicans in Congress set up a funding system that would allow states to modernize their weak higher educational systems. The Morrill Act of 1862 provided federal land to states to establish colleges. Ownership went to the schools which sold it to businesses and farmers. The law specified the mission of these institutions: to focus on the teaching of practical agriculture, science, military science, and engineering—although "without excluding other scientific and classical studies."[3][4] This mission was in contrast to the historic practice of existing colleges which offered a narrow Classical curriculum based heavily on Latin, Greek and mathematics.[5]
    So the government gave unused land to another government entity and then that GOVERNMENT entity sold the land to fund itself.
    The buyers either put the land to use (irrelevant to this conversation) or left it unused AFTER BUYING IT FROM GOVERNMENT.

    Tell me again why government should be able to give or sell land to people who make no use of it and enforce those people denying the use of it to everyone else without them even having to decrease the tax burden for everyone else by paying taxes on the unused land.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #18

  22. #19
    gonna half to...looks like WHOITE PEOPLE aren't allowed to earn a living...



    all i gotta know is...
    FLIP THOSE FLAGS, THE NATION IS IN DISTRESS!


    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Tell me again why government should be able to give or sell land to people who make no use of it and enforce those people denying the use of it to everyone else without them even having to decrease the tax burden for everyone else by paying taxes on the unused land.
    I'm still trying to figure out why it matters to the ethics or desirability of property taxes whether the land is being used for some purpose or another.

    But I do know that "the land must be used for the greater prosperity" line of thinking is remarkably Stalinesque.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 06-21-2024 at 09:11 AM.

  24. #21
    Florida already has this. There is a 3% annual cap on property taxes and portability if you buy a different home.

  25. #22
    Primary residence is capped at 1 percent in Indiana but assesments can be raised at will
    Do something Danke

  26. #23
    There's an additional problem not on anyone's radar.

    I own my home in Northern VA.
    If I cashed out and moved to Southern MD, I could even-swap to a home that is at least 50% bigger and probably get more land, too.
    Up around Philadelphia, I might be able to get a home that's 2x the size.
    That's how much more housing prices are generally in Northern Virginia. And the reason is simple: Lower property tax burden.

    When you buy a house, you're not just taking on the 30 years of payments to the banks, and not just taking on the lifetime of repairs & upgrades.
    You're taking on the tax liability. And that's factored into the price of the home by the marketplace.
    It's just not as readily visible anywhere like it is right here, where you have lots of adjacent jurisdictions to examine and some with high taxes and some with low.

    Any state that eliminates property taxes is going to see an across-the-board increase in median home price by at least 20%. And people are just stupid enough to either fail to realize this means a lower overall payment that will eventually go away entirely, or listen to the same news channels tell them it was a bad idea despite the direct effects to their wallets.

    It'll last two years, tops.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I'm still trying to figure out why it matters to the ethics or desirability of property taxes whether the land is being used for some purpose or another.

    But I do know that "the land must be used for the greater prosperity" line of thinking is remarkably Stalinesque.
    No.
    "The ruling class owns this land and nobody else may use it even though we aren't" is the tyrant position everywhere at all times.

    I have already explained why taxing unused land is better than used land.
    If you don't like it then the only alternative is that you can't own unused land.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    No.
    "The ruling class owns this land and nobody else may use it even though we aren't" is the tyrant position everywhere at all times.

    I have already explained why taxing unused land is better than used land.
    If you don't like it then the only alternative is that you can't own unused land.
    You know, if so-called "conservatives" would stop micromismanaging farmers, or at least turning a blind eye when progs do it, farmland wouldn't be available to buy.

    Give the farmers room to thrive isn't a top-down solution, it isn't tyrannical (stripping ownership from people who don't use it enough to suit you is), but it is an alternative. One wonders why a non-collectivist, non-tyrannical alternative can stare you in the face, yet still not exist in your world. It exists in the real world. Not control-freaky enough for you?

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You know, if so-called "conservatives" would stop micromismanaging farmers, or at least turning a blind eye when progs do it, farmland wouldn't be available to buy.

    Give the farmers room to thrive isn't a top-down solution, it isn't tyrannical (stripping ownership from people who don't use it enough to suit you is), but it is an alternative. One wonders why a non-collectivist, non-tyrannical alternative can stare you in the face, yet still not exist in your world. It exists in the real world. Not control-freaky enough for you?
    If the farmers would use all the land they wouldn't be taxed on it.
    You are bringing in an irrelevant factor.
    If the government is currently holding back the farmers from farming more land then it would continue to do so whether the land was not taxed or not.

    Yes, we should get government out of the way, but no, we should not let the government gift or sell all the land to oligarchs who want to lock it up and not use it for anything without them at least paying for the privilege by being taxed on the unused land.

    This isn't about control, it's about preventing ruling class top down control.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    If the government is currently holding back the farmers from farming more land then it would continue to do so whether the land was not taxed or not.
    Every time I turn around I see you posting, "We should allow the government to do this because we can't stop it from doing that!"

    You're the poster boy for Hegel.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Every time I turn around I see you posting, "We should allow the government to do this because we can't stop it from doing that!"

    You're the poster boy for Hegel.
    LOL

    That's not what I'm saying at all.
    They already tax land, I'm proposing taking that away from them for land that is used.

    What you want is to allow government to give or sell land to their buddies for nominal amounts and deprive the peasants of the use of it.
    So it looks like you are the one wanting to give government power.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    What you want is to allow government to give or sell land to their buddies for nominal amounts and deprive the peasants of the use of it.
    So it looks like you are the one wanting to give government power.
    How does selective taxation deprive the government of the chance to confiscate land and resell it? All government has to do is declare someone isn't using their own land hard enough, slap back taxes on it, and foreclose. I'm arguing the no property tax solution. That doesn't give the government anything to resell to cronies.

    You are once again accusing my position of doing something it couldn't, when yours obviously could. As usual.

    And that is a hole in your so-called "logic" any idiot could sail a supertanker through.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    How does selective taxation deprive the government of the chance to confiscate land and resell it? All government has to do is declare someone isn't using their own land hard enough, slap back taxes on it, and foreclose. I'm arguing the no property tax solution. That doesn't give the government anything to resell to cronies.

    And that is a hole in your so-called "logic" any idiot could sail a supertanker through.
    Government already claims most of the land and has a long history of giving it or selling it to their cronies.
    We already have homesteading laws that define land use or disuse, and how to define that is a different question.

    I'm the one addressing a real historical problem, the Sierra Club, Bill Gates, and their Ilk go around buying up land and locking out the public.
    You are imagining up a problem that won't happen where land that is being used will be declared to be unused in order to take it.

    It is fundamentally wrong to allow ownership of unused land, allowing someone to lease it from the government with an option to use and really own it is a compromise in case some rich guy wants his own hunting land etc. and to provide revenue for the legitimate functions of government.
    If you don't want taxes on unused land then we'll just have to go with you can't own unused land.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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