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Thread: Trump floats eliminating U.S. income tax and replacing it with tariffs on imports

  1. #31
    Sounds to me that Trump is only saying this to get votes and has no actual intention of actually doing it.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    Sounds to me that Trump is only saying this to get votes and has no actual intention of actually doing it.
    Sounds to me like you are talking through your hat and fantasizing, as usual.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Sounds to me like you are talking through your hat and fantasizing, as usual.
    You're really stepping up the projection again.

    You're picturing Mr. Oh God They'll Impeach Me If I Don't Finance The Mark Of The Beast Jab ending the income freaking tax, and you're accusing others of having impossible wet dreams? That's funny.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You're really stepping up the projection again.

    You're picturing Mr. Oh God They'll Impeach Me If I Don't Finance The Mark Of The Beast Jab ending the income freaking tax, and you're accusing others of having impossible wet dreams? That's funny.
    He's going to be in a much better position with a lot more power this time.
    And he still got quite a bit done last time.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He's going to be in a much better position with a lot more power this time.
    And he still got quite a bit done last time.
    Just can't wait for the inflation that comes with sixteen trillion in debt in four years, and Operation Warp Speed Poison II.

    Last edited by acptulsa; 06-16-2024 at 08:15 AM.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Explain. Why do you think the income tax is necessary?
    Trump's ideal government is a patronage system. No money = no patronage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Anyone who thinks this could actually work is high on their own supply
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Explain. Why do you think the income tax is necessary?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Trump's ideal government is a patronage system. No money = no patronage.
    So....you're not going to answer my question and you're going to change the subject. Whether Trump can be trusted to implement replacing the income tax with tariffs is a completely different point than what it could work at all.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    So....you're not going to answer my question and you're going to change the subject. Whether Trump can be trusted to implement replacing the income tax with tariffs is a completely different point than what it could work at all.
    No, that's not changing the subject. It's an answer. It won't work and that's why it won't work. Trump's not the only one. We live in a patronage system verging on kleptocracy.

    Theoretically, in an alternate reality involving a functioning political party and/or movement interested in reducing government spending, it could work. But that's not the reality that we live in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Theoretically, in an alternate reality involving a functioning political party and/or movement interested in reducing government spending, it could work. But that's not the reality that we live in.
    It would take a massive reduction in federal spending to the point where tariffs could even come close to covering revenue needs. But that ain't gonna happen because the people (and their elected representatives who want to be reelected) wouldn't stand for it.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    No, that's not changing the subject. It's an answer. It won't work and that's why it won't work. Trump's not the only one. We live in a patronage system verging on kleptocracy.

    Theoretically, in an alternate reality involving a functioning political party and/or movement interested in reducing government spending, it could work. But that's not the reality that we live in.
    You've given the reason why it likely won't pass as opposed to why it wouldn't work.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    You've given the reason why it likely won't pass as opposed to why it wouldn't work.
    Pass? Of course it can. Trump has a proven history on this. What he gave you was permanent consumption tax increases and temporary income tax decreases.


    Go ahead and clap while they raise your taxes, then hold out your hands while you wait and see what you get in return.
    Last edited by TheCount; 06-20-2024 at 11:29 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Pass? Of course it can. Trump has a proven history on this. What he gave you was permanent consumption tax increases and temporary income tax decreases.


    Go ahead and clap while they raise your taxes, then hold out your hands while you wait and see what you get in return.
    More dishonest deflection from you. I'M NOT FVCKING TALKING ABOUT TRUMP! So take Trump OUT of the equation! If someone other than Trump (A president Rand Paul in 2029 for example) persuaded congress to pass replacing the income tax with tariffs on imports, do you think that would be a workable idea? Why or why not?
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    More dishonest deflection from you. I'M NOT FVCKING TALKING ABOUT TRUMP! So take Trump OUT of the equation! If someone other than Trump (A president Rand Paul in 2029 for example) persuaded congress to pass replacing the income tax with tariffs on imports, do you think that would be a workable idea? Why or why not?
    Oh gee I can't imagine why I would have thought that this thread was about Trump. I must have just imagined him in the thread title.

    1) No because I have my doubts that a President Rand Paul would support any such concept.
    2) No because it would take decades for the US to adjust its spending to a level that would be compatible with a tariff-based tax system.
    3) No because - unlike income-based taxes - consumption-based taxes substantially change consumer behavior. If you say that you need X tax level on Y imports to sustain Z spending, by the time you impose that tax you've reduced imports and now you need a different tax level.
    4) No because imports tank when you have a recession and surge during a boom, which is the opposite of what you want.
    5) No because only a Trumpkin could actually believe "tariffs are a tax on foreign companies instead of Americans."
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Ron Paul wants to shrink the size of government.

    Trump does not.


    There you go, that's the difference.
    Trump campaigned to drain the swamp in 2016. After elected, he was advised that he can't fire people.

    That is correct, he can't fire individuals. But as Vivek has pointed out, he can fire large swaths.

    That is part of Trump's plan this go-around, and I'm all for it.

    Spending is certainly a big issue that's up in the air, but the benefits of firing a significant portion of government employees is also worth voting for by itself - not to mention foreign policy, stuff like this thread, stuff like bitcoin, etc...
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Trump campaigned to drain the swamp in 2016.
    Replace "campaigned" with "said"


    Trump said a lot of things in 2016. He did nearly none of them.



    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    After elected, he was advised that he can't fire people.

    Firing people does not drain the swamp. Firing people removes the alligators from the swamp but leaves the swamp intact so that you can fill it with your own alligators.


    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Spending is certainly a big issue that's up in the air, but the benefits of firing a significant portion of government employees is also worth voting for by itself - not to mention foreign policy, stuff like this thread, stuff like bitcoin, etc...
    You can't even bring yourself to say that he actually thinks or believes these things. They're just "up in the air."
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Oh gee I can't imagine why I would have thought that this thread was about Trump. I must have just imagined him in the thread title.
    But I asked you a specific question that didn't involve Trump. I thought you have the intelligence to follow along in a conversation. My bad for overestimating you.

    1) No because I have my doubts that a President Rand Paul would support any such concept.
    That's just stupid. Ron Paul proposed the idea. Rand Paul would go along with it. The only reason Rand doesn't go along with everything Ron proposes is that some things aren't popular with Rand's base. For example before Rand ran for senator, there's video of him being asked about Iran getting a nuclear weapon and his response was that's no big deal. He absolutely flip flopped on that after running and after being elected even signed the infamous Tom Cotton letter against the Obama / Iran nuclear deal (which is possibly a violation of the Logan Act). By contrast getting rid of the income tax would be hugely popular with his base.

    2) No because it would take decades for the US to adjust its spending to a level that would be compatible with a tariff-based tax system.
    Not a valid reason. Spending levels need to be adjusted. And if you have any intelligence at all (which I'm beginning to doubt) you know that spending levels aren't based on tax revenue anyway. That's why they keep raising the debt ceiling. But replacing the income tax with tariffs forced congress to take spending seriously that's only a positive.

    3) No because - unlike income-based taxes - consumption-based taxes substantially change consumer behavior. If you say that you need X tax level on Y imports to sustain spending, by the time you impose that tax you've reduced imports and now you need a different tax level.
    So? Income-based taxes, with all of the tax loopholes, change consumer behavior as well. And it turns the entire country into lawbreakers. Technically you're not just supposed to report "wages and tips" (and Donald Trump has already copied Ron Paul's no taxes on tips proposal) but you're also supposed to report "gifts" and garage sale income and fill-in-the-blank. In an increasingly gig economy the income tax is the worst form of tyranny. Besides, many European countries have moved to a VAT which is a type of consumer based tax and they're doing fine. And you're at cross purposes with Ron Paul and this entire movement with your "sustain a certain level of spending" comment. The whole point is to reduce the size and scope of the federal government.

    4) No because imports tank when you have a recession and surge during a boom, which is the opposite of what you want.
    Byllshyt. Imports don't "tank" when just about everything people buy these days is imported. We don't import food and a few other essentials. But clothes still wear out and need to be replaced during a recession. And people are still addicted to their electronic gizmos and replace the during a recession.

    5) No because only a Trumpkin could actually believe "tariffs are a tax on foreign companies instead of Americans."
    A) That's a straw man argument. B) Ron Paul came up with the proposal first. C) What are you even doing here? Seriously.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    But I asked you a specific question that didn't involve Trump. I thought you have the intelligence to follow along in a conversation. My bad for overestimating you.
    Trump is a noxious symptom of an illness but even without Trump the illness remains.


    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    That's just stupid. Ron Paul proposed the idea. Rand Paul would go along with it. The only reason Rand doesn't go along with everything Ron proposes is that some things aren't popular with Rand's base. For example before Rand ran for senator, there's video of him being asked about Iran getting a nuclear weapon and his response was that's no big deal. He absolutely flip flopped on that after running and after being elected even signed the infamous Tom Cotton letter against the Obama / Iran nuclear deal (which is possibly a violation of the Logan Act). By contrast getting rid of the income tax would be hugely popular with his base.
    How does Rand's support for NAFTA and other free trade agreements square with his support for tariffs?

    Why did he chose a flat income tax for his previous proposals if he's so enamored with tariffs?


    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Not a valid reason. Spending levels need to be adjusted. And if you have any intelligence at all (which I'm beginning to doubt) you know that spending levels aren't based on tax revenue anyway. That's why they keep raising the debt ceiling. But replacing the income tax with tariffs forced congress to take spending seriously that's only a positive.
    Cool story bro. What does that have to do with what I said?


    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    So? Income-based taxes, with all of the tax loopholes, change consumer behavior as well. And it turns the entire country into lawbreakers. Technically you're not just supposed to report "wages and tips" (and Donald Trump has already copied Ron Paul's no taxes on tips proposal) but you're also supposed to report "gifts" and garage sale income and fill-in-the-blank. In an increasingly gig economy the income tax is the worst form of tyranny. Besides, many European countries have moved to a VAT which is a type of consumer based tax and they're doing fine. And you're at cross purposes with Ron Paul and this entire movement with your "sustain a certain level of spending" comment. The whole point is to reduce the size and scope of the federal government.
    Cool story bro. What does that have to do with what I said? Oh, and which European country moved to a VAT instead of an income tax?


    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Byllshyt. Imports don't "tank" when just about everything people buy these days is imported. We don't import food and a few other essentials. But clothes still wear out and need to be replaced during a recession. And people are still addicted to their electronic gizmos and replace the during a recession.
    Sounds great. Lemme know if and when you find anything supporting your feelings on this.


    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    A) That's a straw man argument. B) Ron Paul came up with the proposal first. C) What are you even doing here? Seriously.
    Cool story bro. What does that have to do with what I said?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Trump is a noxious symptom of an illness but even without Trump the illness remains.




    How does Rand's support for NAFTA and other free trade agreements square with his support for tariffs?

    Why did he chose a flat income tax for his previous proposals if he's so enamored with tariffs?




    Cool story bro. What does that have to do with what I said?




    Cool story bro. What does that have to do with what I said? Oh, and which European country moved to a VAT instead of an income tax?




    Sounds great. Lemme know if and when you find anything supporting your feelings on this.




    Cool story bro. What does that have to do with what I said?
    Answering questions with questions... Cool, tactic bro. We know what you're doing here.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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