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Thread: Trump floats eliminating U.S. income tax and replacing it with tariffs on imports

  1. #1

    Trump floats eliminating U.S. income tax and replacing it with tariffs on imports

    I was already gonna vote for him, you don't have to keep trying to convince me.




    Trump floats eliminating U.S. income tax and replacing it with tariffs on imports

    https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/13/trum...ncome-tax.html

    Donald Trump on Thursday brought up the idea of imposing an “all tariff policy” that would ultimately enable the U.S. to get rid of the income tax, sources in a private meeting with the Republican presidential candidate told CNBC.

    Trump, in the meeting with GOP lawmakers at the Capitol Hill Club in Washington, D.C., also talked about using tariffs to leverage negotiating power over bad actors, according to another source in the room.

    The remarks show Trump, who championed tariffs as a foreign policy multi-tool during his first term in office, is considering a drastically more protectionist trade agenda if he defeats President Joe Biden in November.

    Spokespeople for Trump’s campaign did not immediately respond to CNBC’s requests for comment. Trump in a Truth Social post later Thursday morning said there was “lots discussed, all positive” in the meeting, without providing any more details.

    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 06-14-2024 at 03:03 AM.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan



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  3. #2
    He wants and got your vote, and a whole lot of others, but don't surprised when he does all of the other things instead, but not this.

    Trump is going save us! And he's going to make government save us too!

    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  4. #3
    Yippee. More central planning to “fix” the problems created by central planning. Kiss what remains of the middle class goodbye.
    Last edited by CCTelander; 06-14-2024 at 12:16 AM.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Yippee. More central planning to “fix” the problems created by central -landing. Kiss what remains of the middle class goodbye.
    I didn't want to say that way because people loves them their central planning solutions. To them it's a plus.

    Either way, it still isn’t going to happen.
    Last edited by PAF; 06-13-2024 at 11:48 PM.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  6. #5
    Anyone who thinks this could actually work is high on their own supply
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  7. #6
    While many may still object, I believe that this is the correct constitutional position, excise and tariffs.

    Income theft was ruled unconstitutional.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by unknown View Post
    While many may still object, I believe that this is the correct constitutional position, excise and tariffs.

    Income theft was ruled unconstitutional.
    Exactly right. Three times in fact.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Yippee. More central planning to “fix” the problems created by central planning. Kiss what remains of the middle class goodbye.
    You know brother, sometimes I forgot these things myself...almost twenty years gone and a lot of turbulent water under the bridge...

    Ron Paul has asserted that Congress had no power to impose a direct income tax and supports the repeal of the Sixteenth Amendment.

    Rather than taxing personal income, which he says assumes that the government owns individuals' lives and labor, he prefers the federal government to be funded through excise taxes and/or uniform, non-protectionist tariffs.


    At 17 minutes in, among other places.

    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Anyone who thinks this could actually work is high on their own supply
    Explain. Why do you think the income tax is necessary?
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Yippee. More central planning to “fix” the problems created by central planning. Kiss what remains of the middle class goodbye.
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I didn't want to say that way because people loves them their central planning solutions. To them it's a plus.

    Either way, it still isn’t going to happen.
    Getting rid of the income tax is a net positive even if it means higher tariffs. Individuals should not be required to report to the government how much they make every year. This is a much bigger problem for individual liberty now with more and more people moving into the "gig" economy where their wages are reported to the government but their taxes are not withheld. Lots of people are making barely enough to survive and simultaneously running up huge tax bills that they may never be able to pay. That's also why Biden is now going after people's CashApp and PayPal receipts.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Getting rid of the income tax is a net positive even if it means higher tariffs.
    It absolutely would be. But most of these are bait-and-switch operations, and we wind up with both income tax and jacked up tariffs. Which outcome would do a fine job of siphoning all the remaining wealth to the wealthiest.

    This is a pretty obvious gambit, because it's an idea that has been advanced by those demonic crackpot libertarians. So when they jack tariffs up without regard to what we can and can't produce ourselves right this minute, and it does enough to harm the economy, they "prove" income taxes are "necessary" and" discredit" us. Remember, these are the problem -> reaction -> solution people.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 06-14-2024 at 06:57 AM.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Explain. Why do you think the income tax is necessary?
    Because it's a more certain principle to enslave the next generations to our debts.

    SPENDING IS THE REAL TAX

    The rest are just methods to pretend like our government can pay it back eventually. Tariffs and excise taxes can be avoided... The regressive inflation tax has limits and can spiral out of control... But the labor of the next generations??! That's as good as gold!
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Explain. Why do you think the income tax is necessary?
    The man's face was in two different stills on this very thread, and yet nobody remembers when Ron Paul told us that we could completely eliminate the individual income tax if we simply dialed back federal spending to what it was 8 years prior.

    The income tax is necessary because it is conditioning. You are a slave who owes your labor to your country.
    You have the summer off from high school so you go flip burgers for a couple weeks of afternoons and give up youth and experiences you're never going to get back for a pittance that would be gone in a week if you were allowed to keep it all, and then the federal government takes a LOT of that pittance from you, and if you complain about it to anyone, then all the other monkeys in the 5 monkeys experiment attack you because if you try to take that banana we're all going to get hosed.

    It's absolutely necessary, exactly the way it is. The tax structure is absolutely necessary, exactly the way it is. The tax filing process is absolutely necessary, exactly the way it is. The audit process is absolutely necessary, exactly the way it is. The extra-legislative, extra-judicial nature of the IRS is absolutely necessary, exactly the way it is.

    This is all axiomatic based on the fact that we were told, point blank, 16 years ago, that all we had to do to end it all immediately, literally make it go away forever, is to stop filling cargo ships with dollars and gasoline and lighting them on fire every single day. If we even dialed that back to a hundred semi trailers of dollars lit on fire, none of us would have to do this crap ever again.

    THAT is why there's never going to be a change to the tax code. It is exactly what we need because it is programming us to believe that.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Getting rid of the income tax is a net positive even if it means higher tariffs. Individuals should not be required to report to the government how much they make every year. This is a much bigger problem for individual liberty now with more and more people moving into the "gig" economy where their wages are reported to the government but their taxes are not withheld. Lots of people are making barely enough to survive and simultaneously running up huge tax bills that they may never be able to pay. That's also why Biden is now going after people's CashApp and PayPal receipts.

    Yet I don't see any calls or sincere efforts to DEFUND any programs. Sure, in a world where things make logical sense, I would be all over this. But things don't make logical sense, and I am not interested in trading in my Bill of Rights. And now aside from Trump's plan to federalize nationwide "Stop and Frisk", MTG of all people is stating "federal government must step up assistance to help protect Microsoft, other businesses and regular Americans".

    While I get your point, I don't need a crash course in Economics 101 ;-)
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Yet I don't see any calls or sincere efforts to DEFUND any programs. Sure, in a world where things make logical sense, I would be all over this. But things don't make logical sense, and I am not interested in trading in my Bill of Rights. And now aside from Trump's plan to federalize nationwide "Stop and Frisk", MTG of all people is stating "federal government must step up assistance to help protect Microsoft, other businesses and regular Americans".

    While I get your point, I don't need a crash course in Economics 101 ;-)
    You're not interested in trading your bill of rights? Which rights are still left? The 3rd amendment against quartering soldiers? I'm still not voting for Trump. But, at least on the campaign trail, adopting Ron Paul proposals as @Anti Federalist has pointed out is a good thing. Do I think Trump will actually follow through? Nope. But the fact that these ideas are being mainstreamed is a positive. And unlike some people on this forum I give Obama credit for the few things he got right. (The Iran nuclear deal. Letting schools opt out of No Child Left Behind. Curbing funding for gain of function research in 2014. Letting guns be carried on Amtrack trains and in National Parks). A broken clock is right twice a day, but it's still not worth buying.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    You're not interested in trading your bill of rights? Which rights are still left? The 3rd amendment against quartering soldiers? I'm still not voting for Trump. But, at least on the campaign trail, adopting Ron Paul proposals as @Anti Federalist has pointed out is a good thing. Do I think Trump will actually follow through? Nope. But the fact that these ideas are being mainstreamed is a positive. And unlike some people on this forum I give Obama credit for the few things he got right. (The Iran nuclear deal. Letting schools opt out of No Child Left Behind. Curbing funding for gain of function research in 2014. Letting guns be carried on Amtrack trains and in National Parks). A broken clock is right twice a day, but it's still not worth buying.
    That is exactly where I am at on this as well.

    There is no denying that an across the board, "non protectionist" tariff that replaces the income tax would be a net "good thing" for numerous reasons.

    And that having the currently leading candidate for president talking about the idea, is a net good thing as well.

    And I can recall giving Obama credit for banning GoF research as well, although due to traitorous snakes like Fauci, look where that got us.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan



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  20. #17
    Great. Now Trump needs to describe how as president he could effect this change.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Exactly right. Three times in fact.
    Wrong. The only time a federal income tax was ever held unconstitutional was the tax on investment income addressed in the 1895 Pollock decision. This result was overturned by the 16th Amendment. A tax on personal compensation had previously been upheld by a unanimous Supreme Court in 1881, based on the general taxing power granted to Congress in I.8.1 of the Constitution.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Anyone who thinks this could actually work is high on their own supply
    Like Ron Paul?

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Anyone who thinks this could actually work is high on their own supply
    So, what you're saying is that there was no America before 1913?

    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Great. Now Trump needs to describe how as president he could effect this change.
    It's simple. Even though most Americans truly do not mind paying their "fair share" and insist that you should too, he will simply tell the IRS, FBI, and the other .orgs to take flying hike and fire them all at once. That should do it.

    To compensate, the tariffs will be so outrageously high that while other countries are trading among each other, and the U.S. will be left out, small/medium sized companies move overseas, or fold.

    Don't get me wrong. I don't support any taxation. But that also includes not supporting tariffs.
    Last edited by PAF; 06-14-2024 at 08:33 AM.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    To compensate, the tariffs will be so outrageously high that while other countries are trading among each other, and the U.S. will be left out, as companies fold and/or move overseas.
    Since we have all the proof we could ever need that Trump loves spending, yeah, that's about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    It's simple... he will simply tell the IRS, FBI, and the other .orgs to take flying hike and fire them all at once. That should do it.
    Nonsense. They can't be any less invasive; they have to continue to demand information and tribute from us for Social Security.

    Remember, kiddies, FICA is technically not income tax. It may waddle and quack, but don't be fooled.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 06-14-2024 at 08:39 AM.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Like Ron Paul?
    Ron Paul wants to shrink the size of government.

    Trump does not.


    There you go, that's the difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Wrong. The only time a federal income tax was ever held unconstitutional was the tax on investment income addressed in the 1895 Pollock decision. This result was overturned by the 16th Amendment. A tax on personal compensation had previously been upheld by a unanimous Supreme Court in 1881, based on the general taxing power granted to Congress in I.8.1 of the Constitution.
    You are correct.

    I was mistaken in thinking that the Civil War income tax and the 1862 Revenue Act had been struck down after the war.

    So it was still unconstitutional prior to the 16th.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    So it was still unconstitutional prior to the 16th.
    The only kind of income tax that was unconstitutional before the 16th was a tax on investment income. The Court went out of its way in the Pollock decision to reaffirm that a tax on other kinds of income such as pay-for-work was valid:

    We have considered the act only in respect of the tax on income derived from real estate, and from invested personal property, and have not commented on so much of it as bears on gains or profits from business, privileges, or employments, in view of the instances in which taxation on business, privileges, or employments has assumed the guise of an excise tax and been sustained as such. Pollock, 158 U.S. at 635
    Later, the Court explained why the entire act had to be held void:

    According to the census, the true valuation of real and personal property in the United States in 1890 was $65,037,091,197, of which real estate with improvements thereon made up $39,544,544,333. Of course, from the latter must be deducted, in applying these sections, all unproductive property and all property whose net yield does not exceed four thousand dollars; but, even with such deductions, it is evident that the income from realty formed a vital part of the scheme for taxation embodied
    therein. If that be stricken out, and also the income from all invested personal property, bonds, stocks, investments of all kinds, it is obvious that by far the largest part of the anticipated revenue would be eliminated, and this would leave the burden of the tax to be borne by professions, trades, employments, or vocations, and in that way what was intended as a tax on capital would remain in substance a tax on occupations and labor. We cannot believe that such was the intention of Congress. We do not mean to say that an act laying by apportionment a direct tax on all real estate and personal property, or the income thereof, might not also lay excise taxes on business, privileges, employments, and vocations. But this is not such an act, and the scheme must be considered as a whole. Being invalid as to the greater part, and falling, as the tax would if any part were held valid, in a direction which could not have been contemplated except in connection with the taxation considered as an entirety, we are constrained to conclude that sections twenty-seven to thirty-seven, inclusive, of the act, which became a law without the signature of the President on August 28, 1894, are wholly inoperative and void. Pollock, 158 U.S. at 636-637
    Here's a link to the case upholding the Civil War era income tax against the claim that it was an unapportioned direct tax: https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/102/586/
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  30. #26
    I support income tax elimination and until I support no payroll fed tax deduction. Americans can get a yearly bill. May get attention
    Do something Danke

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Wrong. The only time a federal income tax was ever held unconstitutional was the tax on investment income addressed in the 1895 Pollock decision. This result was overturned by the 16th Amendment. A tax on personal compensation had previously been upheld by a unanimous Supreme Court in 1881, based on the general taxing power granted to Congress in I.8.1 of the Constitution.

    While they have on occasion made some proper rulings, the Supreme Fraud is irrelevant.

    They were never delegated the power of judicial review.

    They exist to rubber stamp government power grabs, bypassing a Constitutional Convention.

    As far as any questions regarding the meaning of the Constitution, including taxes, we would have to look to the Constitutional Convention, state ratifying debates, Federalist Papers, letters, articles, writings, by the Founders and Revolutionaries prior to the ratification of the Constitution, not after.

    The 16th was never properly ratified.
    Last edited by unknown; 06-14-2024 at 09:38 PM.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by unknown View Post
    They were never delegated the power of judicial review.
    Of course they were. Article III of the Constitution delegated the "judicial power of the United States" to the federal courts. It's obvious that "judicial power" includes the power to determine the law that applies to a particular case. If a party claims that a law (statute, regulation, ordinance, common law rule, or any other type of law) violates the Constitution, a court must decide whether it does.

    Quote Originally Posted by unknown View Post
    They exist to rubber stamp government power grabs, bypassing a Constitutional Convention.
    The Court just overturned a ban on bump stocks. I guess they didn't get the memo that they were supposed to rubber stamp it.

    Quote Originally Posted by unknown View Post
    As far as any questions regarding the meaning of the Constitution, including taxes, we would have to look to the Constitutional Convention, state ratifying debates, Federalist Papers, letters, articles, writings, by the Founders and Revolutionaries prior to the ratification of the Constitution, not after.

    The 16th was never properly ratified.
    You apparently don't realize that the power to impose a federal income tax (along with other kinds of taxes) comes from Article I, Section 8, Clause 1 of the Constitution. It was put there deliberately because the requisition method under the Articles of Confederation was a failure (see Federalist 15). The only reason for the 16th was to overturn an 1895 SCOTUS decision that held that a tax on investment income (but not other kinds of income) was a direct tax that had to be apportioned.

    The language of the taxing clause leaves no doubt that Congress was to determine what and when to tax, especially when you consider that the Constitution specified one and only one thing that Congress couldn't tax (exports).
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  33. #29
    Debt isnt getting pd , interest alone is more than oter govt. Debt will continue to be added to by cuck scummer senate. It wont be cut until it collapses . End income tax.
    Do something Danke

  34. #30
    There's a difference between "floating" an idea and advocating it. Trump has already proven that he could promise something with such great zeal as to make it a centerpiece of his campaign while having no intention of ever doing it. So even if he advocated something, hopefully every noncommunist here (this eliminates you, AF), would ignore him. But just "floating" an idea? Come on man.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

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