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Thread: Christ is King, that is, Jesus is Lord

  1. #1

    Post Christ is King, that is, Jesus is Lord

    I'm about 2 months late on this particular social media blow-up, but I thought I'd add some additional theological clarity on the issue. Bishop Barron gives a good introduction to the topic on Megyn Kelly's show:



    The purpose of this post is to address a subtler and more insidious dynamic that can slip past our notice if we are not paying particular attention to it: the phrase "Christ is King" simply means "Messiah is King". Note that any Jew can say this, because this is a core belief of Judaism: the Messiah (when he comes at some future time) is the (one and only) King. That a Jew can say "Christ is King" should alert us that something fishy is going on when Jews are also being very offended by this supposedly "anti-semitic" phrase.

    One phrase that secular or non-messianic Jews definitely can't say is this: Jesus is Lord. The New Testament clearly explains that the coming conflict at the end of the Age is going to be fought not over "the Messiah" but, rather, over the name of Jesus. It is the specificity of Jesus of Nazareth that is the kernel of offense to unbelieving Jews. As a lover of God and his people, I have no desire to amplify that offense but neither am I at liberty to minimize it. The offense of the name of Jesus of Nazareth, specifically, is the core offense of the Gospel to the Jews, because it is he they crucified, not merely a generic "Christ". I don't mean to say that "Christ is King" is intentional weasel-wording, it's not, but the devil's weasels know how to twist even our best intentions around upon themselves. It is important that we be completely specific and explicit: Yes, Christ is King, that is, Jesus is Lord!

    One of the key reasons the offense of the Gospel to the Jews is so critical is that there is coming a false-messiah -- many of them, in fact. This was prophesied 2,000 years ago by Jesus himself. Terms like "Christ-consciousness" might seem to a Christian to be talking about Jesus but, in fact, they are not. They are talking about a mysterious, unspecified, New Age consciousness or "presence", which they call the Christ-consciousness. It would be better termed AntiChrist-consciousness because it is blatantly opposed to the Gospel. The phrase, "Christ is King" is true, but let's not substitute "Christ is King" for "Jesus is Lord". They are both equally true, and affirming the one requires affirming the other. Either both are true, or both must be renounced. You can't have Jesus and "Christ-consciousness". You can't serve two masters.

    On to anti-semitism. Hatred of Jews is a real thing. I have met some true-blue anti-semites in my life. I never could quite figure out what their personal reasons were for hating Jews but, whatever the case, they had visceral hatred for them of the kind that can't be faked. It wasn't fake outrage nor were they merely repeating recycled propaganda. Whatever the motive that anyone has for hating the Jews, they are wrong. Jesus commanded us to love even our enemies, and no one is my enemy merely by virtue of being Jewish. Thus, I can and must love them, because that is Jesus's command, and he himself obviously loves his own people, Luke 13:34. And it is out of love for God's people that we who have been transformed by the Gospel must unflinchingly tell them the truth: Jesus is, indeed, Lord. Not telling them is not a loving act.

    Suppose there is a bus stalled across the train-tracks, and you tell the occupants: "Everyone, please remain calm. I have a pair of binoculars and I have just spotted a train on these tracks coming in this direction. It is still a couple miles away so you have time to orderly gather your things and calmly exit. Please rise and proceed to exit the bus immediately." Not telling them would be a selfish or even spiteful thing to do. Telling them is certainly not a hateful or cruel thing to do. It may be very distressing to them that their trip is about to be disrupted, and the bus they were comfortably traveling in is about to be destroyed. Granted, those are very distressing things, and I would feel a great deal of sympathy for the people forced to disembark the comfortable, cool bus and then stand on the side of the road, abandoned until help arrives. It's absolutely a difficult and trying situation, even if every last person gets off the bus and no one dies. But anyone who does not get off the bus will surely be destroyed. And that is the meaning of "Jesus is Lord". We are not idly speculating, we are not pulling a fire-alarm prank, we're not saying mean things because we enjoy inflicting cruel words onto others. No, we are informing the world of its impending doom because this world is doomed as surely as the sky is blue. Everyone who chooses to remain seated on the bus until the moment the train blindly rounds the corner and wipes out the bus will be destroyed. Get off the bus. Do it orderly, but do it immediately.

    All unbelievers must receive the same warning, and it is offensive in its own way to everyone who hears it, whether they are Jewish or not. And if it is especially offensive to someone who is Jewish, that is something they will have to take up with the heavenly Father because the New Testament clearly explains that this is not actually our fight, that is, this is not a fight between Gentiles and Jews. No, it is ultimately an argument between God and his people. And Jesus of Nazareth is how the heavenly Father has determined to settle that argument, once and for all. He is the speeding freight train hurtling towards this bus. And we who have believed the Gospel are merely messengers, nothing more.

    Do not allow the agents of antichrist to inject confusion through simple word-sorcery. "Christ is King", yes, and that means that Jesus of Nazareth is Lord. He is king. And he is returning with the heavenly host, in vengeance. Do not be outside of Christ when the clock strikes midnight. Seek God and you will find him.
    Last edited by ClaytonB; 06-13-2024 at 10:26 AM.
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    I'm about 2 months late on this particular social media blow-up, but I thought I'd add some additional theological clarity on the issue.

    The purpose of this post is to address a subtler and more insidious dynamic that can slip past our notice if we are not paying particular attention to it: the phrase "Christ is King" simply means "Messiah is King". Note that any Jew can say this, because this is a core belief of Judaism: the Messiah (when he comes at some future time) is the (one and only) King. That a Jew can say "Christ is King" should alert us that something fishy is going on when Jews are also being very offended by this supposedly "anti-semitic" phrase.

    One phrase that secular or non-messianic Jews definitely can't say is this: Jesus is Lord. The New Testament clearly explains that the coming conflict at the end of the Age is going to be fought not over "the Messiah" but, rather, over the name of Jesus. It is the specificity of Jesus of Nazareth that is the kernel of offense to unbelieving Jews. As a lover of God and his people, I have no desire to amplify that offense but neither am I at liberty to minimize it. The offense of the name of Jesus of Nazareth, specifically, is the core offense of the Gospel to the Jews, because it is he they crucified, not merely a generic "Christ". I don't mean to say that "Christ is King" is intentional weasel-wording, it's not, but the devil's weasels know how to twist even our best intentions around upon themselves. It is important that we be completely specific and explicit: Yes, Christ is King, that is, Jesus is Lord!

    One of the key reasons the offense of the Gospel to the Jews is so critical is that there is coming a false-messiah -- many of them, in fact. This was prophesied 2,000 years ago by Jesus himself. Terms like "Christ-consciousness" might seem to a Christian to be talking about Jesus but, in fact, they are not. They are talking about a mysterious, unspecified, New Age consciousness or "presence"...
    Good Lord, it just gets worse from there.

    Clayton, you need to face reality. Providing theological clarity is not and has never been among your strong suits.

    Jews don't believe the Messiah appeared on earth, and don't believe Emmanuel will appear until the time is nigh. No Second Coming. Once will do. They believe that if Jesus of Nazareth did exist, he was a false prophet. Islam believes he did exist and was a real prophet, but no more than that.

    They don't reject the name. They reject the notion that the Messiah showed up way early and did a few years of educational outreach. They don't name their children Heyzeus for the same reason you didn't name your oldest boy Mohammed. But I don't see you denying that the name Mohammed exists.

    Getting caught up in "Holy Name" dogma is belaboring the point the same way Rome belabors everything with iconography, and with the incessant caste system of "Sainthood". The Jews don't believe God did us the huge favor of sending Emmanuel to us on a hit-and-run teaching mission. So, if that never happened, all this fuss over Jesus of Nazareth is as silly as the notion that Mohammed was a prophet may seem to you.

    Clarity. Why make it more complicated than that?

    As for a 'mysterious, unspecified, New Age consciousness or "presence"', except for the attempt to belittle it by sticking New Age in there that sound exactly like the way your own dogma describes the Holy Spirit. So you might consider being a little less dismissive of the theory. When you're not trying to convince people that Jews consider the name Jesus as important as you do (they don't, it's a rare Jew who gets the least bit uptight about it) you're trying to belittle beliefs that you essentially share, and say they're unimportant to you even though you'd see that's really not so if you thought it through.

    Now I'm not taking any side here, saying Jesus of Nazareth as a name is or isn't holy, discussing whether "I am the way and the light" means Jesus must be worshipped or just that He taught us what we need to know to become worthy of eternal life, or any of that. All I'm saying is, if you're going to open with a promise of clarity, it's only common courtesy to put a little effort into being clear.

    Why does any of this matter? Would you want someone running around saying you're violently offended by the mere existence of the name Mohammad, and making you look intolerant? No? Then it's important because Jesus our Teacher taught us that the Golden Rule is important.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 06-13-2024 at 06:41 AM.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Jews don't believe the Messiah [i.e. the Christ] appeared on earth
    I think that's Clayton's point. They have no objection to believing in the Messiah in principle--in fact, at least the religious among them embrace it. And kingship is included in the notion of the Messiah (i.e. the Christ) by definition. They just object to equating the Messiah with Jesus of Nazareth.


    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    They believe that if Jesus of Nazareth did exist, he was a false prophet.
    Exactly. So, not the Lord.

    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    They don't name their children Heyzeus for the same reason you didn't name your oldest boy Mohammed.
    You threw me off here. What is the name "Heyzeus"? Is that some kind of a riff on the Spanish pronunciation of the name Jesus? Because the Hebrew version of the same name, or in the English speaking world the anglicized variation of that Hebrew name, Joshua, is actually not uncommon among Jewish people.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Because the Hebrew version of the same name, or in the English speaking world the anglicized variation of that Hebrew name, Joshua, is actually not uncommon among Jewish people.
    Good point.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    //
    All I can say is that you grossly misunderstood 90+% of what I wrote.

    The name Jesus of Nazareth -- the name of that specific, historic person!! -- is the offense of the Gospel. I thought that was completely clear from what I wrote but I can see from your response that I'm going to have to make my phrasing even more absolutely water-tight against any possible misconstrual. The Hebrew name Yeshua, etc. is not, in itself, the offense. There is an entire book of the Hebrew Bible about someone of that name. The point is that we (Christians) are not talking about some mystical, generic "Christ", as in the phrase "Christ-consciousness". No, we are specifically talking about the historical person (by name!), Jesus of Nazareth. It is he, in particular, that we proclaim Lord. We proclaim the Gospel which is that he is Lord of all, including the Jews. That is offensive to them, because they crucified him, see Peter's sermon in Acts 2, especially Acts 2:36.

    ... "Holy Name" dogma ...
    The name of Jesus is, indeed, holy.

    is belaboring the point the same way Rome belabors everything with iconography, and with the incessant caste system of "Sainthood". The Jews don't believe God did us the huge favor of sending Emmanuel to us on a hit-and-run teaching mission. So, if that never happened, all this fuss over Jesus of Nazareth is as silly as the notion that Mohammed was a prophet may seem to you.
    Except the freight-train approaching the bus has nothing to do with notions or feelings or how things seem to people. Stay seated on the bus, if you choose, but you will perish. So, no, this is not a matter of interpretations or perspectives. It is a matter of faith, but that doesn't mean what it sounds like in modern English. It is a matter of the heart.

    As for a 'mysterious, unspecified, New Age consciousness or "presence"', except for the attempt to belittle it by sticking New Age in there
    It is another way, John 10:1, thus, it is from Satan. It is diametrically opposed to the Gospel.

    So you might consider being a little less dismissive of the theory.
    Absolutely not. The coming freight-train is not a "theory". That Jesus rose from the dead is not a "theory", it is one of the most attested historical events, ever. "Christ-consciousness" is a lie of Satan -- by name -- and we were warned in prophecy that this and many similar deceptions would come.

    "For we are not unaware of his schemes." (2 Cor. 2:11)

    When you're not trying to convince people that Jews consider the name Jesus as important as you do (they don't, it's a rare Jew who gets the least bit uptight about it) you're trying to belittle beliefs that you essentially share, and say they're unimportant to you even though you'd see that's really not so if you thought it through.
    The Jews can say "Christ is King" because it just means "Messiah is King" which is a core belief of traditional Judaism. It also happens to be true! That there is a "flap" over this phrase, coming from the quarters of "offended Jews" shows just how shallow and petty modern Zionism really is, and how wholly disconnected from its own roots. They don't even understand that "Christ is King" is something they themselves believe, if they are actually Jewish. And the point of this post is that if we (Christians) are trapped in that same ignorance, then it's just the blind bickering with the blind over the sound of the color orange. Rather, Jesus is Lord. That is offensive to the Jews, because they crucified Jesus. See Acts 2. (The "magic name" stuff is New Age and you're the one who brought it up, not me.)

    I'm not taking any side
    Everyone is taking a side. That's part of the purpose of the Crucifixion. There will be no neutral middle ground when this is all said and done.

    Jesus must be worshipped
    The worthiness of Jesus comes from who he is -- that he just is God, full-stop.

    Why does any of this matter?
    I understand you say that my post was somehow confusing. I'll wait to hear it from a second witness, because I just don't think there is anything actually unclear in what I wrote.

    And while we're on the topic of the Golden Rule, it is common Internet practice that, if you want more clarity, the way to to do that is to ask for clarification rather than launching off a diatribe on completely irrelevant and unrelated topics.

    Would you want someone running around saying you're violently offended by the mere existence of the name Mohammad,
    Seriously, read Acts 2:14-41 and get back to me. I'm not telling anybody what's going on in their own mind, I'm simply relating the Gospel. God himself has told us what the Gospel is about. I'm just explaining that. If you want to shoot the messenger, have at it.
    Last edited by ClaytonB; 06-13-2024 at 10:20 AM.
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  7. #6
    That's antisemitic.

  8. #7
    In the video, do they mention Candace?



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