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Thread: Trump makes campaign pledge to eliminate fed income tax on tips earned.

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    But Trump has said on many occasions (I posted some of them) that Article II allows him to do anything. He's not lying, is he? I'd be shocked, shocked to think that he wasn't telling the truth.



    SCOTUS disagrees with you, and its rulings, and not your uninformed opinions, are the law. BTW. Trump's proposal would apply to the child of any illegal alien whether part of an invasion or not.
    All illegals are invaders by definition.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #92
    Donald Trump on Thursday brought up the idea of imposing an "all tariff policy" that would ultimately enable the U.S. to get rid of the income tax, sources in a private meeting with the Republican presidential candidate told CNBC.

    Trump, in the meeting with GOP lawmakers at the Capitol Hill Club in Washington, D.C., also talked about using tariffs to leverage negotiating power over bad actors, according to another source in the room.

    More at: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/13/trum...ncome-tax.html

    Read 'em and weep.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Donald Trump on Thursday brought up the idea of imposing an "all tariff policy" that would ultimately enable the U.S. to get rid of the income tax, sources in a private meeting with the Republican presidential candidate told CNBC.

    Trump, in the meeting with GOP lawmakers at the Capitol Hill Club in Washington, D.C., also talked about using tariffs to leverage negotiating power over bad actors, according to another source in the room.

    More at: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/13/trum...ncome-tax.html

    Read 'em and weep.
    Where have I heard that before...?

    ďIt is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no Ďproposition nationí can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  5. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    All illegals are invaders by definition.
    Whose definition? Yours? LOL! There's certainly no such legal definition, and that's what counts. In any event, the 14th Amendment makes no exception for invaders, so your argument is still a loser.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  6. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Whose definition? Yours? LOL! There's certainly no such legal definition, and that's what counts. In any event, the 14th Amendment makes no exception for invaders, so your argument is still a loser.
    By legal definition.
    Foreigners entering your territory against the laws and will of your country are invaders.
    And the 14thA does make an exception. (in addition to one not being needed because it is obvious and part of ancient common law)
    The 14thA requires them to be subject to our jurisdiction, which the invaders do not subject themselves to, they are outlaws.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The 14thA requires them to be subject to our jurisdiction, which the invaders do not subject themselves to, they are outlaws.
    The fact that they can be prosecuted for violating our laws makes it obvious that they are subject to our jurisdiction. They don't need to consent to be subjected. Or do you think that an illegal immigrant who commits a crime has a perfectly good defense: "Hey, I am an invader, so you have no jurisdiction to try me." Get real.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous



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  9. #97

    https://x.com/RepThomasMassie/status...11810157904089
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  10. #98
    I guess we need to define tips.
    In my opinion if a waiter or person serving coffee behind a counter is making $20 and hour minimum wage, they don't need a tip.

    I argue to pay the minimum wage and tipping should not be expected. Totally optional.

    Should be illegal for restaurants to mandate and add gratuity to the bill.

    Was at the casino couple weeks ago playing poker. The lady comes over taking drink orders. Doesn't matter what people get, coffee, water, alcohol.. people giving a dollar chip. That lady is knocking down some bank.

    If it is your job and that is how you earn your living then there should not be a distinction between that and the person that punches a clock and runs a machine.

    Call it contract labor.

    Fuch income tax.

  11. #99
    libertarians are really bad at achieving legislative goals because IMO, they lack strategic thinking for the political game. The political game is not won by purists giving eloquent philosophical speeches on the floor and convincing men and women of the righteousness of principles. It is won via attrition and baby steps in the desired direction. Removing taxes on tips is a good baby step towards removing income taxes altogether IMO.

  12. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    The fact that they can be prosecuted for violating our laws makes it obvious that they are subject to our jurisdiction. They don't need to consent to be subjected. Or do you think that an illegal immigrant who commits a crime has a perfectly good defense: "Hey, I am an invader, so you have no jurisdiction to try me." Get real.
    Wrong, they are not subject to our jurisdiction until we subject them to it.
    We would try a uniformed member of an invading army for rape, or murdering civilians, etc. once we caught him too.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Bern View Post
    Removing taxes on tips is a good baby step towards removing income taxes altogether IMO.
    Libertarians are really, really bad at enjoying gnawing the bone they were thrown so much they don't notice that no further steps are being taken in the direction they were promised that we would all go.

  14. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    The fact that they can be prosecuted for violating our laws makes it obvious that they are subject to our jurisdiction. They don't need to consent to be subjected. Or do you think that an illegal immigrant who commits a crime has a perfectly good defense: "Hey, I am an invader, so you have no jurisdiction to try me." Get real.
    Reality is if subjects attempt to evade it is difficult to locate or prosecute for violent crimes as are not using a real name, Best to keep em out.
    Do something Danke

  15. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    The fact that they can be prosecuted for violating our laws makes it obvious that they are subject to our jurisdiction. They don't need to consent to be subjected. Or do you think that an illegal immigrant who commits a crime has a perfectly good defense: "Hey, I am an invader, so you have no jurisdiction to try me." Get real.
    Even Ron says they are outlaws and don't count:

    http://archive.is/HW9aj

    MR. RUSSERT: You say you're a strict constructionist of the Constitution, and yet you want to amend the Constitution to say that children born here should not automatically be U.S. citizens.
    REP. PAUL: Well, amending the Constitution is constitutional. What's a--what's the contradiction there?
    MR. RUSSERT: So in the Constitution as written, you want to amend?
    REP. PAUL: Well, that's constitutional, to do it. Besides, it was the 14th Amendment. It wasn't in the original Constitution. And there's a, there's a confusion on interpretation. In the early years, it was never interpreted that way, and it's still confusing because people--individuals are supposed to have birthright citizenship if they're under the jurisdiction of the government. And somebody who illegally comes in this country as a drug dealer, is he under the jurisdiction and their children deserve citizenship? I think it's awfully, awfully confusing, and, and I, I--matter of fact, I have a bill to change that as well as a Constitutional amendment to clarify it.



    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    The fact that they can be prosecuted for violating our laws makes it obvious that they are subject to our jurisdiction. They don't need to consent to be subjected. Or do you think that an illegal immigrant who commits a crime has a perfectly good defense: "Hey, I am an invader, so you have no jurisdiction to try me." Get real.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Even Ron says they are outlaws and don't count:

    http://archive.is/HW9aj

    MR. RUSSERT: You say you're a strict constructionist of the Constitution, and yet you want to amend the Constitution to say that children born here should not automatically be U.S. citizens.
    REP. PAUL: Well, amending the Constitution is constitutional. What's a--what's the contradiction there?
    MR. RUSSERT: So in the Constitution as written, you want to amend?
    REP. PAUL: Well, that's constitutional, to do it. Besides, it was the 14th Amendment. It wasn't in the original Constitution. And there's a, there's a confusion on interpretation. In the early years, it was never interpreted that way, and it's still confusing because people--individuals are supposed to have birthright citizenship if they're under the jurisdiction of the government. And somebody who illegally comes in this country as a drug dealer, is he under the jurisdiction and their children deserve citizenship? I think it's awfully, awfully confusing, and, and I, I--matter of fact, I have a bill to change that as well as a Constitutional amendment to clarify it.



    What effect does a citizen child have on whether a jurisdiction can arrest and charge an alien? I don't get it.



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  18. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    What effect does a citizen child have on whether a jurisdiction can arrest and charge an alien? I don't get it.
    The child is not a citizen if the outlaw invaders do not subject themselves to our jurisdiction by following our border laws, that's the point.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  19. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The child is not a citizen if the outlaw invaders do not subject themselves to our jurisdiction by following our border laws, that's the point.
    I don't subject myself to the highway patrol's jurisdiction by following all their laws. I wish your "logic" worked on them.

  20. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I don't subject myself to the highway patrol's jurisdiction by following all their laws. I wish your "logic" worked on them.
    You are a citizen and subject to the jurisdiction of all Constitutional laws, you were presumably born here and in any case you are here legally.

    They are foreign invaders whose very presence is illegal, they are not subject to our jurisdiction in their home countries, and they did not subject themselves to it when they entered our territory, they are outlaws.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Even Ron says they are outlaws and don't count
    Paul didn't say that in your cited material. He just said the interpretation of the 14th Amendment is "awfully confusing".
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  22. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The child is not a citizen if the outlaw invaders do not subject themselves to our jurisdiction by following our border laws, that's the point.
    But it's not the law.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  23. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You are a citizen and subject to the jurisdiction of all Constitutional laws, you were presumably born here and in any case you are here legally.

    They are foreign invaders whose very presence is illegal, they are not subject to our jurisdiction in their home countries, and they did not subject themselves to it when they entered our territory, they are outlaws.
    You're spamming with circular arguments.
    Congratulations. You just invented circular spam.

  24. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    But it's not the law.
    That is the law.
    It was interpreted that way until it was changed by an unconstitutional executive order.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Paul didn't say that in your cited material. He just said the interpretation of the 14th Amendment is "awfully confusing".
    "In the early years, it was never interpreted that way"
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  27. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That is the law.
    It was interpreted that way until it was changed by an unconstitutional executive order.
    I'll repost a portion of an article from the Wall Street Journal:

    In Plyler v. Doe (1982)—a case regarding the public schooling of children who were brought to the country illegally—the court stated that “no plausible distinction with respect to Fourteenth Amendment ‘jurisdiction’ can be drawn between resident aliens whose entry into the United States was lawful, and resident aliens whose entry was unlawful.” James C. Ho, whom President Trump nominated and Congress confirmed to serve on the Fifth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, wrote in 2006 about the Plyler decision, saying that all nine justices “reached that conclusion precisely because illegal aliens are ‘subject to the jurisdiction’ of the U.S., no less than legal aliens and U.S. citizens.”
    Although Plyler involved the Equal Protection Clause's phrase "within its jurisdiction" and not the birthright clause's "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" the Court noted in footnote 10 that the latter is not more restrictive than the former:

    Although we have not previously focused on the intended meaning of this phrase, we have had occasion to examine the first sentence of the Fourteenth Amendment, which provides that "[a]ll persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States. . . ." (Emphasis added.) Justice Gray, writing for the Court in United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U. S. 649 (1898), detailed at some length the history of the Citizenship Clause, and the predominantly geographic sense in which the term "jurisdiction" was used. He further noted that it was "impossible to construe the words 'subject to the jurisdiction thereof,' in the opening sentence [of the Fourteenth Amendment], as less comprehensive than the words 'within its jurisdiction,' in the concluding sentence of the same section; or to hold that persons 'within the jurisdiction' of one of the States of the Union are not 'subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.'"
    Id. at 169 U. S. 687.

    Justice Gray concluded that "[e]very citizen or subject of another country, while domiciled here, is within the allegiance and the protection, and consequently subject to the jurisdiction, of the United States." Id. at 169 U. S. 693. As one early commentator noted, given the historical emphasis on geographic territoriality, bounded only, if at all, by principles of sovereignty and allegiance, no plausible distinction with respect to Fourteenth Amendment "jurisdiction" can be drawn between resident aliens whose entry into the United States was lawful, and resident aliens whose entry was unlawful. See C. Bouve, Exclusion and Expulsion of Aliens in the United States 425-427 (1912).
    You may think SCOTUS got it wrong in Plyer but its decision is still the law. An executive order had nothing to do with it.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  28. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    I'll repost a portion of an article from the Wall Street Journal:



    Although Plyler involved the Equal Protection Clause's phrase "within its jurisdiction" and not the birthright clause's "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" the Court noted in footnote 10 that the latter is not more restrictive than the former:



    You may think SCOTUS got it wrong in Plyer but its decision is still the law. An executive order had nothing to do with it.
    And so was Dredd Scott.

    It's the agreed lie and it can be overturned.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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