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Thread: Libertarian Party 2024 POTUS/VP ticket: Chase Oliver & Mike ter Maat

  1. #31
    Wow the LP is as tonedeaf as the GOP
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    AF, help me out here... While I agree to some extent, how can one make that statement while ignoring/dismissing the rightarians? I remember identifying a root cause of an issue and the enormous finances involved, but then I was told that it didn't matter?

    I am to understand that rightarians are the best philosophy, as long as it is contrary to the leftarian philosophy?
    I am not in favor of abortion on demand, at any time during pregnancy. Neither is Ron Paul. Neither is Javier Milie.

    This man is.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I am not in favor of grown men in dresses waving their dicks at 8 year old kids in the library.

    This man is.

    I don't know what sort of political philosophy you want to ascribe to that position.

    Oh come on now, don't chicken out lol. Of course I agree with what you wrote above. But it seems that you have completely evaded the question that I asked:


    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    AF, help me out here... While I agree to some extent, how can one make that statement while ignoring/dismissing the rightarians? I remember identifying a root cause of an issue and the enormous finances involved, but then I was told that it didn't matter?

    I am to understand that rightarians are the best philosophy, as long as it is contrary to the leftarian philosophy?
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    AF, help me out here... While I agree to some extent, how can one make that statement while ignoring/dismissing the rightarians? I remember identifying a root cause of an issue and the enormous finances involved, but then I was told that it didn't matter?

    I am to understand that rightarians are the best philosophy, as long as it is contrary to the leftarian philosophy?
    "Leftarian" is a term made up to describe the strange sect of LP interlopers the Mises Caucus is trying to defang.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I am not in favor of abortion on demand, at any time during pregnancy. Neither is Ron Paul. Neither is Javier Milie.

    This man is.
    Yeah, I saw that @Brian4Liberty tried to ruffle my feathers [once again] to give the impression that I somehow disagree with that. When in fact my position is that I believe that life should be defended/protected at the point of conception.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    "Leftarian" is a term made up to describe the strange sect of LP interlopers the Mises Caucus is trying to defang.
    Yes, I understand that. I am asking @Anti Federalist to clarify his rightarain position, which involves funding, and he said "it doesn't matter".
    Last edited by PAF; 05-27-2024 at 09:17 AM.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Yeah, I saw that @Brian4Liberty tried to ruffle my feathers [once again] to give the impression that I somehow disagree with that. When in fact my position is that I believe that life should be defended/protected at the point of conception.
    Lol. Wut? Paranoid much?
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Lol. Wut? Paranoid much?
    Me? Paranoid? [nsa, tsa, dhs, @Brian4Liberty, etc....]
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  11. #39
    I don't know what the Mises Caucus was thinking with Rectenwald. He had the enthusiasm of a cabbage. I like that Dave is owning it, but they should have been able to find someone. He also didn't help himself when he couldn't explain his views on "private security" replacing courts. In my mind and I would think most people's, one of the few legitimate purposes of government is to adjudicate disputes that result on someone infringing on the rights of someone else.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Yes, I understand that. I am asking @Anti Federalist to clarify his rightarain position, which involves funding, and he said "it doesn't matter".
    I'm losing you...clarify what, specifically?
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt4Liberty View Post
    I don't know what the Mises Caucus was thinking with Rectenwald. He had the enthusiasm of a cabbage. I like that Dave is owning it, but they should have been able to find someone. He also didn't help himself when he couldn't explain his views on "private security" replacing courts. In my mind and I would think most people's, one of the few legitimate purposes of government is to adjudicate disputes that result on someone infringing on the rights of someone else.
    "Private" courts and cops and jails go down the same rabbit hole.

    What do you do when you come across a man who will not comply with, not ridiculous edicts and "rules", but will not comply with basic human decency?

    "Oh, well, we'll remove him from society."

    OK, how?

    If you say big men with guns, then you are right back to having cops again.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I'm losing you...clarify what, specifically?
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post7232312

    [SPLIT TO: Trump on immigration & war w/Tim Pool at LP 2024 national convention]
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 06-09-2024 at 08:09 PM. Reason: added "SPLIT TO" link
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    "Private" courts and cops and jails go down the same rabbit hole.

    What do you do when you come across a man who will not comply with, not ridiculous edicts and "rules", but will not comply with basic human decency?

    "Oh, well, we'll remove him from society."

    OK, how?

    If you say big men with guns, then you are right back to having cops again.
    Whenever people are arguing about support or refund the police I point out that cops are amoral tools. They're no different than an attack dog or even a gun. If the person using said tool has negative motives, the use of the tool is negative. Look at Sheriff's departments. There's many good ones throughout the country because they are ran by good Sheriff's who themselves are elected.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I am not in favor of grown men in dresses waving their dicks at 8 year old kids in the library.

    This man is.

    I don't know what sort of political philosophy you want to ascribe to that position.
    Support for same sex marriage dropped for the first time last year.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/lgbtq/4...t-time-decade/

    That's probably because a supermajority of Americans are against the transitioning of children.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=supermajority

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I am not in favor of abortion on demand, at any time during pregnancy. Neither is Ron Paul. Neither is Javier Milie.

    This man is.
    A supermajority of Americans are in favor of restricting abortion after the first trimester.

    https://www.npr.org/2023/04/26/11718...ates-are-going

    In the poll 61% said they mostly support abortion rights, 37% count themselves as opposed but then if you read on 66% said abortion should be legal in, at most, the first three months of a pregnancy.

    Under English common law abortion was legal until the "quickening" which happens at around 14 weeks. Personally 12 to 14 weeks is where I land. Ron Paul supports the "morning after pill" but it's debatable as to whether or not that only prevents ovulation or if it also prevents implantation of a fertilized egg. And the morning after pill was his answer to the "rape exception." I think he's on the right track in that rape exceptions really don't make sense. If abortion is murder then it's not okay to murder someone just because his or her father was a rapist. Also IVF is a problem for the "abortion after conception is murder" crowd because at some point the thousands of unused frozen embryos are likely to be destroyed.

    Anyhow, I don't think those who founded this country and left in place abortion legality until 14 weeks were "leftists." There should be a real discussion about abortion that really looks at what it means to be a living human being.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    The
    @LPMisesCaucus
    set out on a mission to bring the Ron Paul revolution into the Libertarian Party. To shed the party of goofiness, wokeness and corruption. It’s been an incredibly rewarding journey and I’ve met some amazing people, who will be lifelong friends, along the way. At the last convention in Reno, we swept every position with super majorities.

    This weekend we retained control of the LNC while reelecting Angela Mcardle who is a phenomenal chair and put on the best convention in the party’s history. Unfortunately, we lost the big one and there’s no getting around that.

    I can’t ignore the elephant in the room here: this is all my fault. When I was planning on running there was tremendous enthusiasm and energy amongst our ranks. When I pulled out for family related reasons, it pulled the rug out from under our guys and we weren’t able to recover.

    It’s ridiculous to put any blame on @MisesChair
    for this. He is an incredibly decent, brilliant and hard working person who never compromised his principles and continued to fight for the MC vision.
    @RecTheRegime
    was the best candidate willing to step up and worked tirelessly, while making enormous personal sacrifices for the cause. He came within a hair of winning but fell short.

    The blame is on me, not those guys. I deserve to take my lumps and I can handle that but please don’t take this out on good people who busted their asses for you. It’s my fault and I’m sorry I let you down.

    Yesterday I congratulated Chase in person and on here. Of course I can’t endorse or vote for him, just as he wouldn’t for me. He doesn’t represent me and my camp or the things we stand for.

    I will always support Angela and the MC team. Hopefully we accomplish more amazing things in the future. I’m going to continue doing what I do: spreading our ideas to as large an audience as possible, in the most compelling way I can. See you soon, Cuomo.

    Dave Smith

    https://twitter.com/ComicDaveSmith/s...79327731855476
    And a response on Twitter [Highlight added]:

    Tom Mullen @ThomasMullen

    Dave, I respectfully request you reconsider voting for the Libertarian candidate. I didn't know much about him before he won the nomination and I've seen the areas where the Mises Caucus would disagree with him. Two things: 1. He would be a far better president than Donald Trump or Joe Biden by any measuring stick 2. the controversial positions are mostly ones that are perfectly defensible from a libertarian perspective, like allowing parents to make the idiotic decision to take their children to drag queen story hour rather than have the state tell them how to raise their children.

    I've heard you share my opinion previously that just because something is permissible under libertarian philosophy (prostitution, drug use, etc.) doesn't mean it should be celebrated. I totally agree and discussed this very issue with @angela4LNCChair during our recent podcast.

    I am disappointed that, once again, the LP has nominated a candidate who will appear to be looking for a pat on the head from the establishment and whose message will appear to endorse all the left's current pet obsessions.

    But America would still be far better off with @ChaseForLiberty as president and, as unlikely as it is that will happen, we will make no progress towards that happening in the future if even our own party doesn't vote for its candidate.

    Thank you for all the great work you've done up to and including at this convention and for your attention to this request you reconsider.
    ...
    https://x.com/ThomasMullen/status/1795102461645992205
    "I am disappointed that, once again, the LP has nominated a candidate who will appear to be looking for a pat on the head from the establishment and whose message will appear to endorse all the left's current pet obsessions."

    While the post acknowledges the downside of the nominee, it glosses over the fact that the downside will be too much for many libertarians to overcome and vote for the Libertarian candidate. The appeal is to come together and vote Party over the candidate and his messaging.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  19. #46
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  20. #47

    https://x.com/USAB4L/status/1795146000262177050
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Update: Chase Oliver wins.

    The process: Michael Rectenwald (Mises Caucus candidate) was ahead on every ballot up (5 or 6 voting rounds?) until it was down to two candidates (Chase Oliver vs. Michael Rectenwald). The third place candidate (Mike ter Maat), cut a deal to be the VP candidate with Chase, and endorsed Chase Oliver.

    At that point in the next ballot, it was nearly a tie (Chase a little ahead), but neither candidate had 50% due to votes for NOTA. The final vote was Chase Oliver vs. NOTA. Chase won with ~60%.
    Dave Smith's take on the "deal":

    Mike [ter Maat] made promises over and over that he would endorse Rec[tenwald] if he was eliminated, including on the floor that day. He traded being a man of his word for a VP seat.

    https://x.com/ComicDaveSmith/status/1795188601644274055
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  23. #49
    Chase Oliver Platform:

    REFORM IMMIGRATION FOR THE 21ST CENTURY

    Our immigration system is a tragic mess. We simply must break the partisan logjam and bring people from all parties together to reform and modernize it. There are few better examples of “bad government” than the overly complex current laws and regulations involving immigration. The President needs to take the lead and work with Congress to radically simplify our immigration system so people can come here, work, and become members of our communities without being relegated to the shadows. Immigrants built this country, and they can help keep it growing and prospering for future generations of Americans. As President, I would


    Collaborate with Congress to return to an Ellis Island style of processing immigrants. It should be simple for those who wish to come here to work and build a better life to appear before immigration officials at an accredited port of entry, be given medical and criminal checks to assess their safety and receive a visa allowing them to immediately find employment. This is a process that should take, at most, days; not months or years.


    Create a simpler path to citizenship for immigrants who are already here. Some eight million undocumented immigrants are currently present in our labor force, doing essential jobs, paying payroll taxes, and contributing to our economic growth. Formalizing this arrangement will not only allow them to further contribute to the economy by meeting critical labor demand and reducing inflationary pressures, it also saves taxpayers billions of dollars in enforcement costs.


    Create a path to citizenship for both DACA-eligible residents and the children of foreign workers admitted to the US on temporary work visas. These immigrants often lose their legal status upon turning 21, robbing us of individuals educated here in America with something to offer our society.


    Expand both the HB1 visa and startup visa, which allows skilled immigrants to bring their talent and innovation to our shores. These individuals add to our economy by starting new businesses and putting more Americans to work. Fifty-five percent of American startups that are valued at over one billion dollars were founded or co-founded by immigrants.


    EMPOWER PEOPLE THROUGH JUSTICE REFORM

    It is long past time we address the problems with our criminal justice system. From Courts to police, to prisons, we need reforms in every area with one goal in mind, empower people, not the government. With less than five percent of the world’s population, we host roughly a quarter of its prison population. That is simply unacceptable in a nation that styles itself as the land of the free. The current system feeds a prison-industrial complex that leads to the militarization of our police, corruption in our prosecutors who have perverse incentives to push for longer sentences, the building of private prisons that value profit over rehabilitation, and a cycle of incarceration that breeds lowered earnings and poverty that leads to recidivism.
    My Administration would:



    End qualified immunity for federal law enforcement so those abused or harmed by law enforcement can have their day in court. While this judge-created rule that allows public officials to escape civil liability for the abuse of citizens’ rights is most often exercised at the state and local levels to shield rogue police officers, making Federal agents liable for abuses of power would allow us to place pressure on state and local officials to follow suit.


    End Federal mandatory minimum sentencing which ties the hands of judges and compels even some who are innocent to plead guilty to avoid the possibility of lengthy incarceration. A wealth of evidence demonstrates that mandatory minimums accelerate prison growth with no overall benefit to crime control. By legislatively mandating punishment, we have taken discretion out of the hands of judges and juries where they rightly belong.


    End the prosecution of victimless crimes and instead place the focus of law enforcement on investigating and prosecuting crimes of violence, theft, fraud, or coercion.


    REPLACE THE DEATH PENALTY WITH HUMANE ALTERNATIVES

    I am an opponent of the death penalty. In too many instances the government has carried out an execution and it was later found out that the convicted were innocent of their crimes. There is no reversal of death, nor any compensation that can make those murdered by the state, however unintentional, whole. It also does not deter crime, and the act itself is both cruel and does nothing to restore what was lost by the victims. In addition, of 198 nation-states and territories in the world, 140 have abolished this barbaric practice, leaving America among the minority of 58 who still abide by this tragic policy. As President, I would:



    Immediately abolish the death penalty for all Federal crimes. Not only are mistakes sometimes made that are not discovered until the execution has been carried out, but prosecutors often use the threat of the penalty as a method for extracting confessions in exchange for more lenient sentencing. This presents ethical concerns in itself, not the least of which is innocent suspects confessing to crimes they did not commit to escape the needle, the chamber, or the chair.


    Have Federal prosecutorial officials look for alternatives to life without parole, which is the most used substitute for the death penalty. While the gravity of some crimes, such as murder, is horrific, the goal of our prison system is to be rehabilitative as well as punitive. While not offenders will prove fit to enter society, some will earn a chance at clemency, and this should be allowed to happen on a case-by-case basis.


    As usual, utilize the example of Federal policy as a bully pulpit to encourage governors and state legislators to revisit their own policies and practices.


    END THE FAILED WAR ON DRUGS INDEFINITELY

    As the failed War on Drugs drags into its fifth long decade, we can all see that the policies of strict prohibition and prison need to change. Just as with the Eighteenth Amendment and its prohibition of alcohol, the criminalization of drugs simply has not worked. The black markets it has created have increased violent crime, engendered police corruption, and contributed to the rise of cartels in places near, such as Mexico, and far, such as Afghanistan. It’s time to end more than two generations of regressive, harmful, and unproductive drug policy and move America into a new chapter. As president I will:



    Immediately act to remove all federal laws criminalizing cannabis and end burdensome regulatory hurdles like federal banking regulations, placed on the cannabis industry.


    Deschedule cannabis with the stroke of a pen – legislation isn’t required.


    Issue full pardons for persons who were convicted solely for non-violent drug offenses and urge every governor to do the same.


    Work with Congress to obtain the repeal of the Controlled Substances Act, which helped pave the way for the War on Drugs.


    Push for the passage of the Drug Policy Reform Act, which would decriminalize possession and use of all drugs, allow for the criminal records of users to be sealed, and restore their right to vote.


    Encourage governors to not only follow suit but to reinforce the option of voluntary treatment for heavy users and addicts, so that they may maintain or return to their status as healthy, productive members of society. Mental health issues should be treated as such, and those needing help should be neither criminalized nor stigmatized by government policy.


    RESPECT AND DEFEND YOUR RIGHT TO
    PRIVACY AND CIVIL LIBERTIES

    It is often the case that the worst government abuses come disguised as protection from danger and harm. If you feel in danger, it becomes easy for the government to have you trade your liberty for the illusion of security. We have warrantless wiretaps, abuses of the FISA courts, and an overarching Patriot Act to name a few. Even worse, we attempt to imprison those who expose the hard truths we need to hear. As President, I will fight to end these programs that eat away at your constitutionally protected privacy and civil liberties and pardon those who have blown the whistle on abuse and illegal actions of our government. As President, I will

    Work with Congress to abolish the Patriot Act, which has unconstitutionally increased the powers and scope of the police and surveillance state.


    Work to repeal the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 which serves as the legal justification for the surveillance abuses disclosed by Edward Snowden in 2013.


    End the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), which routinely violates our civil liberties, requires airlines to become agents of Federal surveillance, and whose screening devices, both for luggage and facial recognition, repeatedly exhibit problems that are inexcusable in relation to the taxpayer dollars spent.


    Have any surviving Cabinet departments and Federal agencies that collect citizens’ information review why and how that information is collected, and how it is used. In many ways, privacy is a highly individual matter, and the best judge of how personal information should be used is the individual involved.


    END WARS & SUPPORT PEACE

    My entire adult life, our nation has been at war somewhere in the world. I have friends and loved ones who have served, and come home with the visible and invisible scars of combat. I’ve seen them mourn their brothers and sisters who didn’t come home. I meet more and more anti-war veterans every day, and they know more than anyone about the cost of war. It’s time we focus our foreign policy on Peace. We should end our policy of sending drones around the world and instead foster international goodwill by defending free trade and free markets. Our nation has long had the moniker ‘leader of the free world.’ It is time we earn that distinction by insisting that Peace is the way forward. End the wars. End the drones. End the policy of constant intervention. It’s easy to drop a bomb, it’s much harder to serve as a beacon of Peace. We must take the more difficult but necessary path.


    Close all overseas bases and immediately return active-duty personnel to domestic bases. The cost savings of doing so will be used as a one-time contribution to discharge the interest on currently outstanding Federally guaranteed student loans.


    End aid being directed to nation-states currently at war. This includes Israel and Ukraine. While we offer moral support to our friends currently engaged with the enemy, we should not be contributing to extending the fight.


    With this said, I recognize that there are aggressors and victims in war. I would allow private parties, including defense contractors, to voluntarily contribute funds and sell weapons to our friends without fear of violating any Federal laws.


    If asked to act as a mediator, I would more than happily allow America to act as a mediator in negotiating a peace that ends the conflict without rewarding aggressing parties for bad behavior.


    Utilize trade as a bargaining chip to foment peace with our neighbors.


    CREATE A THRIVING ECONOMY

    Every day, average Americans face many challenges in our overly regulated economy where government, lobbyists, and special interests continuously conspire to pick winners and losers. From trillions of dollars in government deficits, and trillions more in unfunded liabilities, our government recklessly crowds out funding that would be better served allowing innovation in the marketplace to find solutions to our most pressing issues. To combat these constant rounds of economic and financial crises, we must get government out of our boardrooms and wallets, and allow individuals to decide how to best distribute their hard-earned dollars.

    As President, I will close regulatory loopholes that reward firms that have close relationships with government officials, and that stifle both competition and the innovation which competition creates.


    Immediately end all tariffs, which serve only to increase the bottom lines of protected industries, shift labor from more efficient industries while creating a net loss of jobs, and raise prices by lowering the number of alternatives for consumers to choose among. Tariffs are a form of embargo on domestic laborers and consumers, raising the costs of doing business for importers who pass these added costs onto end-buyers.


    In addition to ending special protections such as tariffs for favored industries, I will also encourage Congress to pass legislation prohibiting bailing out firms that engage in irresponsible business and fiscal practices. It is not the role of government to underwrite the fiduciary duty that firms have to their stakeholders.


    I will strongly urge Congress to work with each state to introduce and pass a Balanced Budget Amendment to the Constitution, forever ending the perpetual cycle of deficit spending.


    RESPECT INDIVIDUAL CHOICE ON TOUGH ISSUES

    There are many complex issues in our society which offer no easy solutions. More than a few of these issues involve individuals engaging in activities that may run counter to our personal beliefs. Outside of obvious criminal offenses such as assault, theft, or murder, it is not the role of government in a free society to prohibit such behavior, even when the majority wishes it so. For this reason, activities such as abortion are the province of individual choice and bodily autonomy.


    • I recognize the complexity of this issue and how there can be good faith positions on both sides of the abortion debate. With this said, I will work to encourage states to decriminalize abortions, as these decisions should rest in the hands of individuals and their doctors.


    • I will encourage the passage of the Hyde Amendment, which will prevent Federal dollars from funding abortion clinics.


    • I will encourage states to incentivize alternatives to abortion, such as adoption, by easing burdensome regulations that greatly increase their cost. The median range for adopting a newborn baby is between $25,000 to $45,000, placing this avenue out of the range of many who would otherwise be willing.


    EMPOWER PARENTS & STUDENTS IN EDUCATION

    At the federal level, the best policy on education is to remove the federal government’s involvement in education. I support abolishing the Department of Education and block granting those funds back to states to be returned to taxpayers. I also support getting the government out of the student loan business so market forces can lower the cost of higher education over time.


    END THE STUDENT DEBT CRISIS TO ASSIST IN INDIVIDUAL FINANCIAL AND RETIREMENT SECURITY

    At this critical moment in time in our economy, millions of people find themselves saddled with an average of $28,950 in student loan debt. This puts them behind the eight-ball before they have even gotten started. 92% of all student loan debt is held or backed by our federal government, with some $1.61 trillion out of $1.75 trillion outstanding. This is a burden that neither students nor the taxpayers responsible for these guarantees can continue to bear. The skyrocketing costs of college education can be directly placed at the feet of this massive boondoggle, which creates perverse incentives to raise the costs of tuition by artificially inflating demand beyond that which the market would normally provide.



    I will immediately end the Federal backing of student loans by asking Congress to make all current loans interest-free, while simultaneously ending all future government-guaranteed loans.


    I would then make the discharge of interest revenue neutral by requiring the Department of Defense to cut costs by closing overseas bases and installations and bringing our troops home, instead of engaging in expensive nation-building and peacekeeping missions abroad. It is only right that the DoD bear part of the cost, as mounting debt is as big a threat to our security as any foreign enemy,


    Finally, I would allow students to stabilize their financial situations by allowing student loan debt to be dischargeable in bankruptcy just like any other loan. I want a well-educated populace that can compete with the minds of any other nation, but not at the cost of our nation's financial and retirement security.


    CHAMPION GUN RIGHTS FOR ALL

    I support the right of every person to defend themselves from violence and aggression. Gun control throughout our history has been used to limit the ability of vulnerable populations to defend themselves. Armed people are harder to oppress and harder to attack.

    I will not support any new gun restrictions and will look to repeal the restrictions that exist today.


    I will nominate to the judiciary judges committed to protecting the right of all persons to defend themselves from aggression.


    District of Columbia v. Heller was a seminal moment in our history, affirming not only the right of citizens to own arms, but determining that restrictions such as trigger locks are unconstitutional. I will work to extend this legal concept to all bans, such as bans on bump stocks.


    LOWER THE COST OF HEALTHCARE THROUGH MARKET & INNOVATION

    Healthcare is too expensive because of government overregulation. We should advocate for market alternatives to heavily regulated employer-provided insurance such as the Direct Primary Care model. We should also reform how we bring new drugs to market and end practices such as patent evergreening which keep the cost of too many drugs artificially high. With more choices and free market forces, we will see a drop in the cost of healthcare overall.

    I would urge Congress to remove limits on Health Savings Accounts. Currently, these tax-deductible accounts are capped at $4,150 per year for individuals or $8,300 for families. This fails to cover the cost of healthcare in America, which averages $13,493 a year per individual.


    We must lower the regulatory burden on the pharmaceutical industry, which imposes huge costs on research and development that both protects favored firms by erecting costly barriers to entry that crowd out smaller firms and increase the costs of end-products to consumers.


    As I already stated, I would end the practice of evergreen patents, which create artificial product monopolies that keep prices high. While I understand the need for firms to protect their profits, competition would result in better versions of already existing medications, greater innovation, and lower prices.


    RESTORE PROSPERITY BY REDUCING INFLATION


    Every American is feeling the pinch of excessive inflation, especially those with the least safety net to begin with. Among other factors, this is driven by massive overspending from the government and the printing money from thin air to pay for it. This cycle is unsustainable, and we must cut spending to balance the budget. With spending under control, we will see an easing of inflation, and in the long run have a stronger, healthier, and more robust economy for all. As President, I would propose that we:



    Reduce Federal spending to pre-pandemic levels, balancing the budget. While it has long been the theory that when interest rates rise to combat inflation, the increased costs of borrowing cause the government to borrow less, but the evidence suggests this simply isn’t the case. Under these circumstances, deficit spending increases inflationary pressures increasing the cost of government debt.


    Reduce the red tape and barriers to entry that inhibit new businesses and entrepreneurial growth. A sizable portion of our current round of inflation is the result of demand exceeding supply post-pandemic. Increased productivity and more efficient supply change can help reduce inflationary pressure.


    Significantly reduce the money supply, which is a necessary supplement to the fiscal consolidation strategy of budget reduction. Supply-side policies don’t curb inflation. Decreased demand does. An absence of easy money, results in the reining in of spending by consumers, lowering inflation organically.
    ...
    https://www.votechaseoliver.com/platform
    Last edited by Brian4Liberty; 05-27-2024 at 03:16 PM.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post

    https://x.com/USAB4L/status/1795146000262177050
    Praise from Reason. Imagine that...


    https://x.com/nickgillespie/status/1795056856710209922
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Libertarian nominee Chase Oliver:

    99% of drag queen story hours are fine for kids. If he had children, he says he'd bring them to one and leave them there.

    "It's just like the Wiggles"

    https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/1794992462403957031

    C'mon man!
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 06-08-2024 at 07:30 PM. Reason: fixed quote ID number
    "The Patriarch"

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Chase Oliver Platform:

    REFORM IMMIGRATION FOR THE 21ST CENTURY

    Our immigration system is a tragic mess. We simply must break the partisan logjam and bring people from all parties together to reform and modernize it. There are few better examples of “bad government” than the overly complex current laws and regulations involving immigration. The President needs to take the lead and work with Congress to radically simplify our immigration system so people can come here, work, and become members of our communities without being relegated to the shadows. Immigrants built this country, and they can help keep it growing and prospering for future generations of Americans. As President, I would


    Collaborate with Congress to return to an Ellis Island style of processing immigrants. It should be simple for those who wish to come here to work and build a better life to appear before immigration officials at an accredited port of entry, be given medical and criminal checks to assess their safety and receive a visa allowing them to immediately find employment. This is a process that should take, at most, days; not months or years.


    Create a simpler path to citizenship for immigrants who are already here. Some eight million undocumented immigrants are currently present in our labor force, doing essential jobs, paying payroll taxes, and contributing to our economic growth. Formalizing this arrangement will not only allow them to further contribute to the economy by meeting critical labor demand and reducing inflationary pressures, it also saves taxpayers billions of dollars in enforcement costs.


    Create a path to citizenship for both DACA-eligible residents and the children of foreign workers admitted to the US on temporary work visas. These immigrants often lose their legal status upon turning 21, robbing us of individuals educated here in America with something to offer our society.


    Expand both the HB1 visa and startup visa, which allows skilled immigrants to bring their talent and innovation to our shores. These individuals add to our economy by starting new businesses and putting more Americans to work. Fifty-five percent of American startups that are valued at over one billion dollars were founded or co-founded by immigrants.


    EMPOWER PEOPLE THROUGH JUSTICE REFORM

    It is long past time we address the problems with our criminal justice system. From Courts to police, to prisons, we need reforms in every area with one goal in mind, empower people, not the government. With less than five percent of the world’s population, we host roughly a quarter of its prison population. That is simply unacceptable in a nation that styles itself as the land of the free. The current system feeds a prison-industrial complex that leads to the militarization of our police, corruption in our prosecutors who have perverse incentives to push for longer sentences, the building of private prisons that value profit over rehabilitation, and a cycle of incarceration that breeds lowered earnings and poverty that leads to recidivism.
    My Administration would:



    End qualified immunity for federal law enforcement so those abused or harmed by law enforcement can have their day in court. While this judge-created rule that allows public officials to escape civil liability for the abuse of citizens’ rights is most often exercised at the state and local levels to shield rogue police officers, making Federal agents liable for abuses of power would allow us to place pressure on state and local officials to follow suit.


    End Federal mandatory minimum sentencing which ties the hands of judges and compels even some who are innocent to plead guilty to avoid the possibility of lengthy incarceration. A wealth of evidence demonstrates that mandatory minimums accelerate prison growth with no overall benefit to crime control. By legislatively mandating punishment, we have taken discretion out of the hands of judges and juries where they rightly belong.


    End the prosecution of victimless crimes and instead place the focus of law enforcement on investigating and prosecuting crimes of violence, theft, fraud, or coercion.


    REPLACE THE DEATH PENALTY WITH HUMANE ALTERNATIVES

    I am an opponent of the death penalty. In too many instances the government has carried out an execution and it was later found out that the convicted were innocent of their crimes. There is no reversal of death, nor any compensation that can make those murdered by the state, however unintentional, whole. It also does not deter crime, and the act itself is both cruel and does nothing to restore what was lost by the victims. In addition, of 198 nation-states and territories in the world, 140 have abolished this barbaric practice, leaving America among the minority of 58 who still abide by this tragic policy. As President, I would:



    Immediately abolish the death penalty for all Federal crimes. Not only are mistakes sometimes made that are not discovered until the execution has been carried out, but prosecutors often use the threat of the penalty as a method for extracting confessions in exchange for more lenient sentencing. This presents ethical concerns in itself, not the least of which is innocent suspects confessing to crimes they did not commit to escape the needle, the chamber, or the chair.


    Have Federal prosecutorial officials look for alternatives to life without parole, which is the most used substitute for the death penalty. While the gravity of some crimes, such as murder, is horrific, the goal of our prison system is to be rehabilitative as well as punitive. While not offenders will prove fit to enter society, some will earn a chance at clemency, and this should be allowed to happen on a case-by-case basis.


    As usual, utilize the example of Federal policy as a bully pulpit to encourage governors and state legislators to revisit their own policies and practices.


    END THE FAILED WAR ON DRUGS INDEFINITELY

    As the failed War on Drugs drags into its fifth long decade, we can all see that the policies of strict prohibition and prison need to change. Just as with the Eighteenth Amendment and its prohibition of alcohol, the criminalization of drugs simply has not worked. The black markets it has created have increased violent crime, engendered police corruption, and contributed to the rise of cartels in places near, such as Mexico, and far, such as Afghanistan. It’s time to end more than two generations of regressive, harmful, and unproductive drug policy and move America into a new chapter. As president I will:



    Immediately act to remove all federal laws criminalizing cannabis and end burdensome regulatory hurdles like federal banking regulations, placed on the cannabis industry.


    Deschedule cannabis with the stroke of a pen – legislation isn’t required.


    Issue full pardons for persons who were convicted solely for non-violent drug offenses and urge every governor to do the same.


    Work with Congress to obtain the repeal of the Controlled Substances Act, which helped pave the way for the War on Drugs.


    Push for the passage of the Drug Policy Reform Act, which would decriminalize possession and use of all drugs, allow for the criminal records of users to be sealed, and restore their right to vote.


    Encourage governors to not only follow suit but to reinforce the option of voluntary treatment for heavy users and addicts, so that they may maintain or return to their status as healthy, productive members of society. Mental health issues should be treated as such, and those needing help should be neither criminalized nor stigmatized by government policy.


    RESPECT AND DEFEND YOUR RIGHT TO
    PRIVACY AND CIVIL LIBERTIES

    It is often the case that the worst government abuses come disguised as protection from danger and harm. If you feel in danger, it becomes easy for the government to have you trade your liberty for the illusion of security. We have warrantless wiretaps, abuses of the FISA courts, and an overarching Patriot Act to name a few. Even worse, we attempt to imprison those who expose the hard truths we need to hear. As President, I will fight to end these programs that eat away at your constitutionally protected privacy and civil liberties and pardon those who have blown the whistle on abuse and illegal actions of our government. As President, I will

    Work with Congress to abolish the Patriot Act, which has unconstitutionally increased the powers and scope of the police and surveillance state.


    Work to repeal the FISA Amendments Act of 2008 which serves as the legal justification for the surveillance abuses disclosed by Edward Snowden in 2013.


    End the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), which routinely violates our civil liberties, requires airlines to become agents of Federal surveillance, and whose screening devices, both for luggage and facial recognition, repeatedly exhibit problems that are inexcusable in relation to the taxpayer dollars spent.


    Have any surviving Cabinet departments and Federal agencies that collect citizens’ information review why and how that information is collected, and how it is used. In many ways, privacy is a highly individual matter, and the best judge of how personal information should be used is the individual involved.


    END WARS & SUPPORT PEACE

    My entire adult life, our nation has been at war somewhere in the world. I have friends and loved ones who have served, and come home with the visible and invisible scars of combat. I’ve seen them mourn their brothers and sisters who didn’t come home. I meet more and more anti-war veterans every day, and they know more than anyone about the cost of war. It’s time we focus our foreign policy on Peace. We should end our policy of sending drones around the world and instead foster international goodwill by defending free trade and free markets. Our nation has long had the moniker ‘leader of the free world.’ It is time we earn that distinction by insisting that Peace is the way forward. End the wars. End the drones. End the policy of constant intervention. It’s easy to drop a bomb, it’s much harder to serve as a beacon of Peace. We must take the more difficult but necessary path.


    Close all overseas bases and immediately return active-duty personnel to domestic bases. The cost savings of doing so will be used as a one-time contribution to discharge the interest on currently outstanding Federally guaranteed student loans.


    End aid being directed to nation-states currently at war. This includes Israel and Ukraine. While we offer moral support to our friends currently engaged with the enemy, we should not be contributing to extending the fight.


    With this said, I recognize that there are aggressors and victims in war. I would allow private parties, including defense contractors, to voluntarily contribute funds and sell weapons to our friends without fear of violating any Federal laws.


    If asked to act as a mediator, I would more than happily allow America to act as a mediator in negotiating a peace that ends the conflict without rewarding aggressing parties for bad behavior.


    Utilize trade as a bargaining chip to foment peace with our neighbors.


    CREATE A THRIVING ECONOMY

    Every day, average Americans face many challenges in our overly regulated economy where government, lobbyists, and special interests continuously conspire to pick winners and losers. From trillions of dollars in government deficits, and trillions more in unfunded liabilities, our government recklessly crowds out funding that would be better served allowing innovation in the marketplace to find solutions to our most pressing issues. To combat these constant rounds of economic and financial crises, we must get government out of our boardrooms and wallets, and allow individuals to decide how to best distribute their hard-earned dollars.

    As President, I will close regulatory loopholes that reward firms that have close relationships with government officials, and that stifle both competition and the innovation which competition creates.


    Immediately end all tariffs, which serve only to increase the bottom lines of protected industries, shift labor from more efficient industries while creating a net loss of jobs, and raise prices by lowering the number of alternatives for consumers to choose among. Tariffs are a form of embargo on domestic laborers and consumers, raising the costs of doing business for importers who pass these added costs onto end-buyers.


    In addition to ending special protections such as tariffs for favored industries, I will also encourage Congress to pass legislation prohibiting bailing out firms that engage in irresponsible business and fiscal practices. It is not the role of government to underwrite the fiduciary duty that firms have to their stakeholders.


    I will strongly urge Congress to work with each state to introduce and pass a Balanced Budget Amendment to the Constitution, forever ending the perpetual cycle of deficit spending.


    RESPECT INDIVIDUAL CHOICE ON TOUGH ISSUES

    There are many complex issues in our society which offer no easy solutions. More than a few of these issues involve individuals engaging in activities that may run counter to our personal beliefs. Outside of obvious criminal offenses such as assault, theft, or murder, it is not the role of government in a free society to prohibit such behavior, even when the majority wishes it so. For this reason, activities such as abortion are the province of individual choice and bodily autonomy.


    • I recognize the complexity of this issue and how there can be good faith positions on both sides of the abortion debate. With this said, I will work to encourage states to decriminalize abortions, as these decisions should rest in the hands of individuals and their doctors.


    • I will encourage the passage of the Hyde Amendment, which will prevent Federal dollars from funding abortion clinics.


    • I will encourage states to incentivize alternatives to abortion, such as adoption, by easing burdensome regulations that greatly increase their cost. The median range for adopting a newborn baby is between $25,000 to $45,000, placing this avenue out of the range of many who would otherwise be willing.


    EMPOWER PARENTS & STUDENTS IN EDUCATION

    At the federal level, the best policy on education is to remove the federal government’s involvement in education. I support abolishing the Department of Education and block granting those funds back to states to be returned to taxpayers. I also support getting the government out of the student loan business so market forces can lower the cost of higher education over time.


    END THE STUDENT DEBT CRISIS TO ASSIST IN INDIVIDUAL FINANCIAL AND RETIREMENT SECURITY

    At this critical moment in time in our economy, millions of people find themselves saddled with an average of $28,950 in student loan debt. This puts them behind the eight-ball before they have even gotten started. 92% of all student loan debt is held or backed by our federal government, with some $1.61 trillion out of $1.75 trillion outstanding. This is a burden that neither students nor the taxpayers responsible for these guarantees can continue to bear. The skyrocketing costs of college education can be directly placed at the feet of this massive boondoggle, which creates perverse incentives to raise the costs of tuition by artificially inflating demand beyond that which the market would normally provide.



    I will immediately end the Federal backing of student loans by asking Congress to make all current loans interest-free, while simultaneously ending all future government-guaranteed loans.


    I would then make the discharge of interest revenue neutral by requiring the Department of Defense to cut costs by closing overseas bases and installations and bringing our troops home, instead of engaging in expensive nation-building and peacekeeping missions abroad. It is only right that the DoD bear part of the cost, as mounting debt is as big a threat to our security as any foreign enemy,


    Finally, I would allow students to stabilize their financial situations by allowing student loan debt to be dischargeable in bankruptcy just like any other loan. I want a well-educated populace that can compete with the minds of any other nation, but not at the cost of our nation's financial and retirement security.


    CHAMPION GUN RIGHTS FOR ALL

    I support the right of every person to defend themselves from violence and aggression. Gun control throughout our history has been used to limit the ability of vulnerable populations to defend themselves. Armed people are harder to oppress and harder to attack.

    I will not support any new gun restrictions and will look to repeal the restrictions that exist today.


    I will nominate to the judiciary judges committed to protecting the right of all persons to defend themselves from aggression.


    District of Columbia v. Heller was a seminal moment in our history, affirming not only the right of citizens to own arms, but determining that restrictions such as trigger locks are unconstitutional. I will work to extend this legal concept to all bans, such as bans on bump stocks.


    LOWER THE COST OF HEALTHCARE THROUGH MARKET & INNOVATION

    Healthcare is too expensive because of government overregulation. We should advocate for market alternatives to heavily regulated employer-provided insurance such as the Direct Primary Care model. We should also reform how we bring new drugs to market and end practices such as patent evergreening which keep the cost of too many drugs artificially high. With more choices and free market forces, we will see a drop in the cost of healthcare overall.

    I would urge Congress to remove limits on Health Savings Accounts. Currently, these tax-deductible accounts are capped at $4,150 per year for individuals or $8,300 for families. This fails to cover the cost of healthcare in America, which averages $13,493 a year per individual.


    We must lower the regulatory burden on the pharmaceutical industry, which imposes huge costs on research and development that both protects favored firms by erecting costly barriers to entry that crowd out smaller firms and increase the costs of end-products to consumers.


    As I already stated, I would end the practice of evergreen patents, which create artificial product monopolies that keep prices high. While I understand the need for firms to protect their profits, competition would result in better versions of already existing medications, greater innovation, and lower prices.


    RESTORE PROSPERITY BY REDUCING INFLATION


    Every American is feeling the pinch of excessive inflation, especially those with the least safety net to begin with. Among other factors, this is driven by massive overspending from the government and the printing money from thin air to pay for it. This cycle is unsustainable, and we must cut spending to balance the budget. With spending under control, we will see an easing of inflation, and in the long run have a stronger, healthier, and more robust economy for all. As President, I would propose that we:



    Reduce Federal spending to pre-pandemic levels, balancing the budget. While it has long been the theory that when interest rates rise to combat inflation, the increased costs of borrowing cause the government to borrow less, but the evidence suggests this simply isn’t the case. Under these circumstances, deficit spending increases inflationary pressures increasing the cost of government debt.


    Reduce the red tape and barriers to entry that inhibit new businesses and entrepreneurial growth. A sizable portion of our current round of inflation is the result of demand exceeding supply post-pandemic. Increased productivity and more efficient supply change can help reduce inflationary pressure.


    Significantly reduce the money supply, which is a necessary supplement to the fiscal consolidation strategy of budget reduction. Supply-side policies don’t curb inflation. Decreased demand does. An absence of easy money, results in the reining in of spending by consumers, lowering inflation organically.
    ...
    https://www.votechaseoliver.com/platform

    - His immigration policy could use a little work [mine is obviously better].

    - His opinion on drag queen story hour, for the most part, would not be an issue if his Education platform was put into place.

    - The abortion bit, you may not like it, but it would otherwise go underground. Defund all of it, defend/protect life at inception, and provide [local] ways to reduce the number of abortions.


    Of course 3 single issues would deter most people anyway from the rest of his platform and they will would sooner suck up to Trump.


    So, why bother posting this, I am not voting anyway lol. But it is a pretty good platform.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  27. #53
    I was in another forum and the Libertarians over there were not a happy lot, they are switching to Trump this round.

    I think most conservative Libertarians see this guy as being way too leftish on many topics.
    Freedom is good when you center it on core principals like Ron Paul did, yes you do put up with some stuff you don't agree with, but that does not mean freedom extends to absolute insanity, and that is where this is being pushed to, and I do not agree with that ideology.

    Comments from Libertarians, "we have nothing but bad choices this round" and "Trump now represents me the most politically"

    I think many will either just stay home and not vote, or vote for Trump.

    Who do you think Rand Paul will vote for?

    Also I don't know if the leave it to the States works like it used to, you have some real crazy stuff going on in some states, and the people in the red counties are being controlled by the population dense blue counties. In 2008 when Ron Paul said it, it made total sense, now politically activist judges and election fraud can mess things up so bad.......that might have worked in the past but not in 2024.

    The only solution to American issues right now is to try to get the most conservative judges onto the supreme court as everything is going to end up there eventually as the left goes wild doing what they do.....and the best hope for that is 4 more years of Trump, like it or not.
    Last edited by ProBlue33; 05-27-2024 at 06:44 PM.
    Et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by ProBlue33 View Post
    I was in another forum and the Libertarians over there were not a happy lot, they are switching to Trump this round.
    Closet fascist-libs.

    I think most conservative Libertarians see this guy as being way too leftish on many topics.
    Closet fascist-libs.

    Freedom is good when you center it on core principals like Ron Paul did, yes you do put up with some stuff you don't agree with, but that does not mean freedom extends to absolute insanity, and that is where this is being pushed to, and I do not agree with that ideology.

    Comments from Libertarians, "we have nothing but bad choices this round" and "Trump now represents me the most politically"
    Like I said: Closet fascist-libs.

    I think many will either just stay home and not vote, or vote for Trump.
    I'm picking weeds out of the yard that day, it's much more productive. The ones who vote for Trump, well, they are Closet fascist-libs.

    Who do you think Rand Paul will vote for?
    Ask Rand ;-)


    Here are my thoughts:

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post7232383
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Closet fascist-libs.



    Closet fascist-libs.



    Like I said: Closet fascist-libs.



    I'm picking weeds out of the yard that day, it's much more productive. The ones who vote for Trump, well, they are Closet fascist-libs.



    Ask Rand ;-)


    Here are my thoughts:

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post7232383
    So your telling me people who voted for Ron Paul in 2008 and 2012 in the primaries, maybe even wrote his name in, and then didn't vote for Trump in 2016 or 2020.....are suddenly closet fascists liberals in 2024......ok I think we can figure this one out from here.
    Et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by ProBlue33 View Post
    So your telling me people who voted for Ron Paul in 2008 and 2012 in the primaries, maybe even wrote his name in, and then didn't vote for Trump in 2016 or 2020.....are suddenly closet fascists liberals in 2024......

    Take from it what you will. I can't account for other people, or what they do or don't do.

    I go strictly by the Record:

    Donald Trump On The Record

    Now, after reading that, ask yourself if he represents you. And then maybe circle around to the link that I provided above and see who better represents you.

    ok I think we can figure this one out from here.
    Not sure what that means, but, ok?
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)



  31. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  32. #57
    His ideology from that interview is WAY to liberal and naive for me, big NOPE!
    Et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos

  33. #58
    I predict libertarian pres candidate below 1 percent. About 8 more years no ballot access about anywere. Failed experiment
    Last edited by oyarde; 05-27-2024 at 07:02 PM.
    Do something Danke

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Take from it what you will. I can't account for other people, or what they do or don't do.

    I go strictly by the Record:

    Donald Trump On The Record

    Now, after reading that, ask yourself if he represents you. And then maybe circle around to the link that I provided above and see who better represents you.



    Not sure what that means, but, ok?
    Trump doesn't best represent me, I won't be voting for him, I am like you I won't be voting at all.
    BUT I see the true political landscape in America, right now America has the choice between a drunken monkey that gets 50% of the things done that people want, and maybe couple more good supreme court judges, or the utter insane garbage of the left and a senile leader with super leftist activists judges on the supreme.

    I can see what Americans will pick, and why.
    Et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos

  35. #60
    https://x.com/ramzpaul/status/1795078279151452584

    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

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