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Thread: Trump: "We Will Ban Urban Camping Wherever Possible"

  1. #1

    Trump: "We Will Ban Urban Camping Wherever Possible"


    Former President Donald Trump's plan to end homelessness is to criminalize it, an idea critics find appalling.

    "Under my strategy, working with states, we will ban urban camping wherever possible," Trump said in a video released Tuesday. "Violators of these bans will be arrested, but they will be given the option to accept treatment and services if they're willing to be rehabilitated."

    There were nearly 600,000 Americans experiencing homelessness last year, and according to the National Alliance to End Homelessness (NAEH), there has been an organized effort across the country to make homelessness illegal. Several states have already enacted bills along these lines, including Texas, Tennessee and Missouri, NAEH states on its website.

    In California, the state with the largest homeless population, Trump in 2019 demanded their removal from Los Angeles and other cities in the state, The Washington Post reported at the time, stating Trump pushed for White House officials to get homeless people off the streets and into government-backed facilities.

    .

    "It is blatant in the Constitution that you can't arrest people just because they don't have a home," Mills said. "But more importantly, it doesn't work. People are not homeless because they're afraid of punishments. People are homeless because they don't have a home."

    The civil rights lawyer said any time homelessness is criminalized, it results in people being much less likely to reach out to social services or nonprofit groups for fear that they will be reported for a crime. He said it can have even further implications by discouraging those who would normally volunteer or aid the homeless.

    Trump said his proposal calls for creating "tent cities" and relocating homeless people to "large parcels of inexpensive land" with access to doctors, psychiatrists, social workers and drug rehab specialists. He claims his plan will once again make cities "livable" and "beautiful."

    .

    Ann Oliva, chief executive officer for NAEH, also condemned Trump's plan, calling it "alarming and dangerous in numerous ways," she told Newsweek in an email Wednesday.

    "The way to end homelessness is not to arrest people and move them out of sight into internment camps," Oliva said. "Jail isn't housing. Prison isn't housing. Tent cities aren't housing. Housing, with services tailored to people's specific needs, must be at the center of any plan to end homelessness. Prioritizing any immediate strategy other than housing is a red herring—a political ploy to divert attention from the real resources communities need while 'othering' people in the most vulnerable situations imaginable."

    While social media users were divided on the plan, many found it "abhorrent". VoteVets, a veterans advocacy group, said on Twitter that rather than continue the progress of helping homeless veterans, "Trump wants to find them and toss them into what can best be described as internment camps."



    Full article:
    https://www.newsweek.com/trump-wants...llegal-1795202
    ____________

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    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)



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  3. #2
    Federalized Stop and Frisk, and now Federalized Internment Camps that the "conspiracy theorists" warned about?

    What, Trump, the self-described libertarian doesn't believe in local community and volunteers, so now he wants everything Federalized, and those who don't comply go to prison to get "government rehabilitation"?
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Federalized Stop and Frisk, and now Federalized Internment Camps that the "conspiracy theorists" warned about?

    What, Trump, the self-described libertarian doesn't believe in local community and volunteers, so now he wants everything Federalized, and those who don't comply go to prison to get "government rehabilitation"?
    TimLyingCast "libertarians flocking to Trump"


    I wonder many actual libertarians would be moving to towards after they see his polices?

  5. #4
    more blabber from the blabber king
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch

  6. #5
    Chase Oliver has been an advocate for the unhoused (aka mentally ill and addicts living on the streets) in the past.

    "It is blatant in the Constitution that you can't arrest people just because they don't have a home," Mills said. "But more importantly, it doesn't work. People are not homeless because they're afraid of punishments. People are homeless because they don't have a home."
    Complete bull$#@!. Anybody that needs help can get help in many ways, paid for by taxpayers. These people on the streets don't want to utilize those services because they don't want to stop using drugs.

    "Camping" on the streets is a joke. There are encampments that are populated by the mentally ill and addicts. They are not "camping", they are trespassing. They are littering. Crime comes hand in hand with it. Theft mainly, but also assaults and even murder.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Chase Oliver has been an advocate for the unhoused (aka mentally ill and addicts living on the streets) in the past.



    Complete bull$#@!. Anybody that needs help can get help in many ways, paid for by taxpayers. These people on the streets don't want to utilize those services because they don't want to stop using drugs.

    "Camping" on the streets is a joke. There are encampments that are populated by the mentally ill and addicts. They are not "camping", they are trespassing. They are littering. Crime comes hand in hand with it. Theft mainly, but also assaults and even murder.

    You are sending a mixed message here, just because you don't like Chase Oliver. Leaving Chase Oliver out of the equation [who wasn't even mentioned in the OP article], are you implying that you do support Trump's Government Internment Tent Camps and Federalized Ban to "clean up the mess"?

    Leaving Chase out of the equation, I believe that it should be up to the local community, churches, volunteers, to address. I do not support or condone me living in one town and having to pay for the homeless in another town, clear across the state, or the other side of the country. In other words, I do not support or condone Trump's Federalized "Plan".
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  8. #7
    Where does the Constitution give the federal government the authority to have anything to do with this issue?
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Chase Oliver has been an advocate for the unhoused (aka mentally ill and addicts living on the streets) in the past.



    Complete bull$#@!. Anybody that needs help can get help in many ways, paid for by taxpayers. These people on the streets don't want to utilize those services because they don't want to stop using drugs.

    "Camping" on the streets is a joke. There are encampments that are populated by the mentally ill and addicts. They are not "camping", they are trespassing. They are littering. Crime comes hand in hand with it. Theft mainly, but also assaults and even murder.
    Trespassing and littering are already illegal. And I don't see why they should be federal issues.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Where does the Constitution give the federal government the authority to have anything to do with this issue?
    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Matt Collins again."
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    You are sending a mixed message here, just because you don't like Chase Oliver. Leaving Chase Oliver out of the equation [who wasn't even mentioned in the OP article], are you implying that you do support Trump's Government Internment Tent Camps and Federalized Ban to "clean up the mess"?

    Leaving Chase out of the equation, I believe that it should be up to the local community, churches, volunteers, to address. I do not support or condone me living in one town and having to pay for the homeless in another town, clear across the state, or the other side of the country. In other words, I do not support or condone Trump's Federalized "Plan".
    I don't support a federalized plan, either, but I do support enforcing trespassing laws. And that includes trespassing on government owned properties.

    But, as someone who has camped in urban environments, I'd hate to see that completely eliminated. In fact, just like with state-owned lands, there's an opportunity for a small revenue stream. Camping permits with a limit on the number of days for certain properties. The truth is that these people aren't "camping" - they're choosing to live like this because it's tolerated.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    But, as someone who has camped in urban environments, I'd hate to see that completely eliminated. In fact, just like with state-owned lands, there's an opportunity for a small revenue stream. Camping permits with a limit on the number of days for certain properties. The truth is that these people aren't "camping" - they're choosing to live like this because it's tolerated.
    I am not one to blanket statement anybody. While there may be a percentage of that happening, there is also a percentage who may be mentally ill, simply passing through [as I have done and have been questioned by it], cast to the side perhaps because facilities are at capacity, etc. etc. which is why I stated:

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I believe that it should be up to the local community...
    Last edited by PAF; 05-29-2024 at 01:04 PM.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    You are sending a mixed message here, just because you don't like Chase Oliver. Leaving Chase Oliver out of the equation [who wasn't even mentioned in the OP article], are you implying that you do support Trump's Government Internment Tent Camps and Federalized Ban to "clean up the mess"?

    Leaving Chase out of the equation, I believe that it should be up to the local community, churches, volunteers, to address. I do not support or condone me living in one town and having to pay for the homeless in another town, clear across the state, or the other side of the country. In other words, I do not support or condone Trump's Federalized "Plan".
    I didn't say anywhere that I support a federalized plan. But Federal money is already used, as well as State and local taxpayer money.

    I take issue with the use of Marxist language to diminish crime and criminals. "Homeless", "unhoused", "urban campers" and other such terms are just Marxist word play.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Trespassing and littering are already illegal. And I don't see why they should be federal issues.
    They shouldn't be Federal issues, but they already are in many ways. Existing state/local laws need to be enforced. No need for new laws. But enforcement of such laws is often hamstrung by elements of the Federal Govt and the judicial system.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    I didn't say anywhere that I support a federalized plan. But Federal money is already used, as well as State and local taxpayer money.

    I take issue with the use of Marxist language to diminish crime and criminals. "Homeless", "unhoused", "urban campers" and other such terms are just Marxist word play.
    With all due respect Brian [don't beat me over the head] this may be the breakdown of where you and I [and others] differ. I don't look at issues or statements with regard to "Marxists word play" or "right-wing word play". I look squarely at the issue and make the determination whether it abides by libertarian principles. For me, it sure cuts out a lot of the bullsh|t, and headaches too. Why give the opposition credibility? ;-)
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Chase Oliver has been an advocate for the unhoused (aka mentally ill and addicts living on the streets) in the past.



    Complete bull$#@!. Anybody that needs help can get help in many ways, paid for by taxpayers. These people on the streets don't want to utilize those services because they don't want to stop using drugs.

    "Camping" on the streets is a joke. There are encampments that are populated by the mentally ill and addicts. They are not "camping", they are trespassing. They are littering. Crime comes hand in hand with it. Theft mainly, but also assaults and even murder.
    I help my dad with his rental houses and I can attest that it's much harder for people to get government rental assistance than you seem to think. Yes there are a lot of people on rental assistance and there are a lot more waiting to get it.
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    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  18. #16
    There are no parking signs. There are no crossing here signs. If there is a designated campground that is okay with me. Who wants that scum living in their city? If they are so ill they can't find work or keep a home, then they should get medical help. How do homeless, jobless, people afford cigarettes, liquor, and or drugs?

    If the goal is to get the people off the streets, they could set up a homeless tent city, with food, bathrooms, and give away food, and alcohol and let them live there for free if they so choose. Don't try to help them. Just 3 hots, a cot, a bathroom, and liquor. And all those bleeding heart liberal Karens can donate shoes, and clothing. No policing. Enter and stay at your own risk. Stay and or leave at will.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged View Post
    There are no parking signs. There are no crossing here signs. If there is a designated campground that is okay with me. Who wants that scum living in their city? If they are so ill they can't find work or keep a home, then they should get medical help. How do homeless, jobless, people afford cigarettes, liquor, and or drugs?

    If the goal is to get the people off the streets, they could set up a homeless tent city, with food, bathrooms, and give away food, and alcohol and let them live there for free if they so choose. Don't try to help them. Just 3 hots, a cot, a bathroom, and liquor. And all those bleeding heart liberal Karens can donate shoes, and clothing. No policing. Enter and stay at your own risk. Stay and or leave at will.
    After reading that, I was reminded of the movie "Rambo". He served, he evidently didn't want a permanent home, and just decided to travel and walk on foot wherever it led him. He minded his own business, and picked up an odd job here and there, and though he didn't pay taxes to an authority, he paid for the clothes on his back and the food that he ate.

    The sheriff considered him a "vagrant", simply for walking and minding his own business. Rambo served, to defend and protect his and our freedoms, and he simply wanted to be left alone. A lot like some people who truly do want to "Live Off The Grid". Rambo was pushed and pushed to the point that, well, you know the rest.

    So, he really wasn't free. And to be free, the government made him an offer that he basically couldn't refuse. Fight for freedom [the government], or stay behind prison bars.
    Last edited by PAF; 05-29-2024 at 02:27 PM.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    After reading that, I was reminded of the movie "Rambo". He served, he evidently didn't want a permanent home, and just decided to travel and walk on foot wherever it led him. He minded his own business, and picked up an odd job here and there, and though he didn't pay taxes to an authority, he paid for the clothes on his back and the food that he ate.

    The sheriff considered him a "vagrant". Rambo served, to defend and protect his and our freedoms, and he simply wanted to be left alone. A lot like some people who truly do want to "Live Off The Grid". Rambo was pushed and pushed to the point that, well, you know the rest.

    So, he really wasn't free. And to be free, the government made him an offer that he basically couldn't refuse. Fight for freedom [the government], or stay behind prison bars.
    My guess is those on the street would welcome free food, shelter, bathroom, and liquor. I would think they would be happy with the accommodations and would stay there of their own free will. No need to steal because all the food and drink they want. Hell give them pot too.

    I think in some cities there are zoning laws against camping on your own property.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged View Post
    My guess is those on the street would welcome free food, shelter, bathroom, and liquor. I would think they would be happy with the accommodations and would stay there of their own free will. No need to steal because all the food and drink they want. Hell give them pot too.
    If people want to voluntarily give it to them, I am good with that. I mind my own business. I would apply that to immigrants as well; they can take voluntary donations, work and earn money, or simply starve/move on. No need for tax payer money to be involved in that at all - state or fed.

    I think in some cities there are zoning laws against camping on your own property.
    I have heard of that, and I am opposed to that. It's either your own private property, or you are renting from the government. People need to stand for their rights, or they have no rights at all.
    ____________

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  23. #20
    Trump, his father and son-in-law are all 2,3,4th generation slum lords.

    He'll gladly enrich his network and have Big Gov pay for housing for all these people.

    Sure one of Jared's LLC's already filed for it.
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    I help my dad with his rental houses and I can attest that it's much harder for people to get government rental assistance than you seem to think. Yes there are a lot of people on rental assistance and there are a lot more waiting to get it.
    Unless you are a foreign invader.

    Then you get put up in posh NYC hotels that neither one of us could afford.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    I help my dad with his rental houses and I can attest that it's much harder for people to get government rental assistance than you seem to think. Yes there are a lot of people on rental assistance and there are a lot more waiting to get it.
    I think once they get approved it is like a teachers tenure. It is there for good.
    My guess is people that know the system get on the list before they need the accommodations.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Complete bull$#@!. Anybody that needs help can get help in many ways, paid for by taxpayers. These people on the streets don't want to utilize those services because they don't want to stop using drugs.

    "Camping" on the streets is a joke. There are encampments that are populated by the mentally ill and addicts. They are not "camping", they are trespassing. They are littering. Crime comes hand in hand with it. Theft mainly, but also assaults and even murder.
    No, the problem is deeper than this. I have lived and worked in a men's shelter, and I learned a lot while I was there.

    (a) Money/funding is never the problem. During Thanksgiving, the amount of turkeys donated to the men's shelter I was at is so voluminous, that the commercial walk-in freezer (like you would find in any grocery store) is stacked to the ceiling with birds and, some years, donations start having to be turned away because there are just too many turkeys. Obviously, they all eventually get eaten. That's just voluntary donations, not to mention regular charitable giving and other sources of institutional funding. There are plenty of resources.

    (b) Many people who are homeless don't mind their lifestyle and probably would not change even if they had the option to. Many people prefer outdoor life and some people just prefer to live outside all the time. In itself, that's not an invalid choice, and one part of the problem is that, culturally, we categorize this as an invalid lifestyle choice. You can butcher kids' genitals if you want, that's a perfectly valid lifestyle choice, but choosing to live outside all the time, (read in Karen voice): "what's wrong with you, you ANIMAL?!?"

    (c) The legal identity SNAFU creates a very real legal catch-22 for many people who are willing to work. To be considered a legal person (thus, free to work), you basically have to have a street address, and several other accoutrements of the modern, middle-class lifestyle. Because our penal system is corrupt, lazy and worthless, we use these kinds of basic tools as instruments of punishment but, in the process, we create a huge swathe of collateral damage in the form of people who are not guilty of any crime, or have served whatever time they were sentenced to serve, but are forced to pay the "un-person" penalty anyway, due to being caught in the catch-22 already mentioned. The irony of shouting, "get a job, you bum!" is that, in many cases, they logistically cannot get a job no matter how willing they are to work. There are agencies, such as homeless shelters, that can help with this, but the point is that it really isn't as simple as just walking over to the nearest hamburger joint and offering to clean toilets or do whatever work they have available. Shoving your head in the sand about this inherent contradiction in the system won't make it go away, either. All that will happen is you will have larger and larger drifts of homeless vagrants in the camps dotting your downtown districts. Boo-f-ing-hoo. Take the wake-up call and deal with reality and stop being whiny snowflakes and blaming all your problems on "the homeless who just don't want to work." I don't know what the solutions are, but I know that whining about the problem and shifting the blame is certainly not a solution.

    (d) Many homeless are in a kind of circular legal trap and are quite literally "circling the drain" of society (usually leading to death/suicide). There was a mentally-ill man who was at the shelter there for a while. He could not be in an institution because he was too violent, so they expelled him. He would steal from the store because he was hungry or wanted something, so he would be jailed. He would be kept there for X amount of time, then he would be released back to the shelter, where they would file the paperwork to put him back in the institution. They would take him for a while, and then re-expel him due to violence, etc. And so the cycle went on. It was a Kafka-esque tragedy. Every single institution's hands are tied in respect to effectively dealing with the problem. And then their case is just turned into another statistic to go begging the public for "more funding".

    (e) The homeless cannot be punished into doing what you want, at least, not unless you are prepared to go to the extent of sharia law and start cutting off hands, etc. And making homelessness difficult in one city during some anti-homeless campaign might seem to work, but all that really happens is like running through a large flock of birds... they alight, fly some distance away, then fly right back to where they were before. You can go crazy and run around chasing birds like a madman, but it won't solve your bird-flock problem, it will just wear you out.

    (f) Measures introduced to prevent "abuse" of homeless assistance are largely a waste-of-time. The gossip channels among the homeless move at the speed-of-light, and free anything is instantly identified and broadcast throughout. If you put XYZ restriction on phones, but there is some kind of exception due to ABC condition, they just coach other on how to tick the ABC box with the administrator to lift the XYZ restriction. And the news on how to do that spreads effectively instantly, so the grand scheme you cooked up to overhaul whatever "abuse" of homeless resources was occurring will be literally mooted overnight.

    There is no actual mystery as to why these problems exist and persist as they do. In the past, repeat violent offenders would just be given the death-penalty. That cuts out a significant chunk of the problem. There was acknowledged space in society for mountain-men ... it was not considered an abomination, just strange. Identity cards were not used to unperson people as a kind of extra-judicial punishment inflicted by tinpot administrators for daring to cross them, e.g. child-support jerking people's driver's licenses for unpaid child-support, which is pure insanity. This creates a huge chunk of the problem. Finally, the primary agents of charity were church and the family, which are the right agents of charitable work since they are able to administer assistance in a manner that effects change, since the assistance is given directly, face-to-face. It is not some kind of impersonal merry-go-round of ticking off the right checkboxes.

    Finally, and most importantly, we need a spiritual revival in our public agencies and local governments -- homelessness is one of the ways that God "speaks" to those in power. When they flaunt his manifest law, and ignore the obvious principles of Nature (which also reveal God), they bring on themselves God's judgment, and the scourge of homelessness is one of the ways that manifests. Most of the homeless have deep spiritual hunger and desperately need God's salvation. Throwing more "resources" at them solves nothing. And chasing them off is as futile as running through a large flock of roosting birds. They just jump out of your way, and come right back.
    Last edited by ClaytonB; 05-29-2024 at 03:44 PM.
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    ^ ^ ^
    Boy that was a lot of reading. But I somehow did it.

    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ClaytonB again."
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  29. #25
    Government should consider only allowing illegal immigrants, and people of color, and LGBTQLMNOP, people to camp at National Campgrounds.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    I help my dad with his rental houses and I can attest that it's much harder for people to get government rental assistance than you seem to think. Yes there are a lot of people on rental assistance and there are a lot more waiting to get it.
    Every state and local jurisdiction are different, so YMMV.

    I knew a guy who was "homeless" with a wife and two kids. He essentially refused to work, but this is not unusual among the street people and the people on govt assistance. It is a form of mental illness. The social workers told them that the wife and kids could get an apartment, food, healthcare, all free, if they would jettison the father. Talk about incentives for fatherless children.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  31. #27

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Every state and local jurisdiction are different, so YMMV.

    I knew a guy who was "homeless" with a wife and two kids. He essentially refused to work, but this is not unusual among the street people and the people on govt assistance. It is a form of mental illness. The social workers told them that the wife and kids could get an apartment, food, healthcare, all free, if they would jettison the father. Talk about incentives for fatherless children.
    The productive thing to do would be to first fight back against such proposed, tyrannical Federal policies stated in the OP, and then look for ways to address the problem(s) at the local level. Much in the same way that Ron Paul did not want to immediately shut off social security because too many people paid into it and reliant on it, but instead phase it out.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    No, the problem is deeper than this. I have lived and worked in a men's shelter, and I learned a lot while I was there.

    (a) Money/funding is never the problem. During Thanksgiving, the amount of turkeys donated to the men's shelter I was at is so voluminous, that the commercial walk-in freezer (like you would find in any grocery store) is stacked to the ceiling with birds and, some years, donations start having to be turned away because there are just too many turkeys. Obviously, they all eventually get eaten. That's just voluntary donations, not to mention regular charitable giving and other sources of institutional funding. There are plenty of resources.
    That is what I have seen too.

    (b) Many people who are homeless don't mind their lifestyle and probably would not change even if they had the option to. Many people prefer outdoor life and some people just prefer to live outside all the time. In itself, that's not an invalid choice, and one part of the problem is that, culturally, we categorize this as an invalid lifestyle choice. You can butcher kids' genitals if you want, that's a perfectly valid lifestyle choice, but choosing to live outside all the time, (read in Karen voice): "what's wrong with you, you ANIMAL?!?"
    If people are living outdoors somewhere beyond in the bushes next to freeway or your front door, people wouldn't notice, and wouldn't care.

    They are not the visible ones, who are not just outdoors people, they are on alcohol/drugs and/or mentality ill. They want to continue the drug use, so they don't use shelters.

    (c) The legal identity SNAFU creates a very real legal catch-22 for many people who are willing to work. To be considered a legal person (thus, free to work), you basically have to have a street address, and several other accoutrements of the modern, middle-class lifestyle. Because our penal system is corrupt, lazy and worthless, we use these kinds of basic tools as instruments of punishment but, in the process, we create a huge swathe of collateral damage in the form of people who are not guilty of any crime, or have served whatever time they were sentenced to serve, but are forced to pay the "un-person" penalty anyway, due to being caught in the catch-22 already mentioned. The irony of shouting, "get a job, you bum!" is that, in many cases, they logistically cannot get a job no matter how willing they are to work. There are agencies, such as homeless shelters, that can help with this, but the point is that it really isn't as simple as just walking over to the nearest hamburger joint and offering to clean toilets or do whatever work they have available. Shoving your head in the sand about this inherent contradiction in the system won't make it go away, either. All that will happen is you will have larger and larger drifts of homeless vagrants in the camps dotting your downtown districts. Boo-f-ing-hoo. Take the wake-up call and deal with reality and stop being whiny snowflakes and blaming all your problems on "the homeless who just don't want to work." I don't know what the solutions are, but I know that whining about the problem and shifting the blame is certainly not a solution.
    That is problematic, for the people who actually want a job. But they are usually not the problem people.

    (d) Many homeless are in a kind of circular legal trap and are quite literally "circling the drain" of society (usually leading to death/suicide). There was a mentally-ill man who was at the shelter there for a while. He could not be in an institution because he was too violent, so they expelled him. He would steal from the store because he was hungry or wanted something, so he would be jailed. He would be kept there for X amount of time, then he would be released back to the shelter, where they would file the paperwork to put him back in the institution. They would take him for a while, and then re-expel him due to violence, etc. And so the cycle went on. It was a Kafka-esque tragedy. Every single institution's hands are tied in respect to effectively dealing with the problem. And then their case is just turned into another statistic to go begging the public for "more funding".
    The violet people belong in prison, away from herds of oblivious and helpless victims.

    (e) The homeless cannot be punished into doing what you want, at least, not unless you are prepared to go to the extent of sharia law and start cutting off hands, etc. And making homelessness difficult in one city during some anti-homeless campaign might seem to work, but all that really happens is like running through a large flock of birds... they alight, fly some distance away, then fly right back to where they were before. You can go crazy and run around chasing birds like a madman, but it won't solve your bird-flock problem, it will just wear you out.
    Many locales have solved their problem by sending them to other places, for example the west coast cities, where Marxism and bleeding heart liberalism make it easy for them.

    (f) Measures introduced to prevent "abuse" of homeless assistance are largely a waste-of-time. The gossip channels among the homeless move at the speed-of-light, and free anything is instantly identified and broadcast throughout. If you put XYZ restriction on phones, but there is some kind of exception due to ABC condition, they just coach other on how to tick the ABC box with the administrator to lift the XYZ restriction. And the news on how to do that spreads effectively instantly, so the grand scheme you cooked up to overhaul whatever "abuse" of homeless resources was occurring will be literally mooted overnight.
    Yep. The grapevine. That's why a city like Portland or SF ends up with so many bums.

    There is no actual mystery as to why these problems exist and persist as they do. In the past, repeat violent offenders would just be given the death-penalty. That cuts out a significant chunk of the problem. There was acknowledged space in society for mountain-men ... it was not considered an abomination, just strange. Identity cards were not used to unperson people as a kind of extra-judicial punishment inflicted by tinpot administrators for daring to cross them, e.g. child-support jerking people's driver's licenses for unpaid child-support, which is pure insanity. This creates a huge chunk of the problem. Finally, the primary agents of charity were church and the family, which are the right agents of charitable work since they are able to administer assistance in a manner that effects change, since the assistance is given directly, face-to-face. It is not some kind of impersonal merry-go-round of ticking off the right checkboxes.
    Yep. Especially family. There are a ton of people who would otherwise be "homeless" because of mental disorders, but who live with their families, or at a minimum their family takes care of them. It is the violent ones who often end up with no one taking care of them, even charities.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
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