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Thread: Trump on immigration & war w/Tim Pool at LP 2024 national convention

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    This morning, I don't even give a $#@! anymore.

    Ya'll duke it out...I quit...it's a $#@!ing pointless argument anyway.

    The damage has already been done...
    I think I've mentioned before that there's another misdirection going on here, too. And I hope to show that the damage has *not* already been done.

    Hispanic migrants have been coming to the US literally forever. It's the core of what the 1943 zoot suit riots were about in LA. I don't see how that's functionally different from today except in scale. Damned migrants are un-American, wearing their large suits when there's a war on and that fabric could have been used in a more patriotic manner.
    That was 81 years ago.

    It's been 20 years since I was explaining to the dip$#@! protowoke boomer girlboss at church that it makes zero sense to emulate megachurches that get 1000 attending one service when there's a Roman Catholic church just down the road that seats 800 had has to have 7 masses every weekend, if attendance is your goal, anyway (we can all see now it wasn't). I'm under no illusions about who it was who made up most of the attendance of those masses back then, and I'm under no illusions about who makes up the attendance now.

    I also realize what happened over the last 8 years with Hispanics in this country, politically. There are critical masses of them that are actually not OK with their free public school encouraging their daughters to cut their tits off. The ones that I know, and I know several, are at worst slightly right of center on just about every issue now.

    Most of them are not here to cause damage. They're not here to foment revolution. They realize things were $#@!ed up in their home country and can absolutely be reasoned with and brought to a position where what happened in the home country won't happen here. Provided, of course, that you don't start the conversation by saying "GTFO".


    In contrast, I now have two mosques within walking distance of my house. I live in Northern VA, in one of the oldest parts of the country, which is also an area where the wealthiest are all government employees who need clearances, so the muslims who are going to these mosques have nothing to do with either national or local culture.
    I also see regular reports of what is going on in the UK and Ireland and Sweden. The shenanigans they're up to as a group there are actually cause for concern - and if Hispanics were doing this sort of thing, I'd probably be on the same page as you.

    But they're not. Hispanics aren't setting up special schools to teach their children to hate the indigenous - they're falling victim to the same public school nonsense everyone else is.
    Hispanics aren't throwing city-wide celebrations of non-Christian holidays: they're celebrating the same holidays, but in ways that country-club Christians don't appreciate.
    Hispanics aren't instituting their own legal systems and spurning the one that is supposed to be in effect. They aren't committing acid attacks or murdering women on the street for cultural reasons that are supported by the larger community.

    Yesterday was the anniversary of the fall of Constantinople. It was a textbook case of what these political agitators (because Islam isn't a religion, it's a political system) do when they come into town: they use force to get their way. And I'm living it in microcosm right now: there's a rich Muslim down the street who is defying the county in order to punch a hole through the woods to one of the mosques so he can drive 1/4 mile to get to prayers instead of having to go around and drive a whole mile. He doesn't care what the rules are - he makes the rules.

    This is what *I* am living and what I wish people would recognize. I don't see any problem with HIspanics as a group that doesn't boil down to cherry picking stories from millions of people. I cannot get excited about a surplus of taco trucks around town when I know they're all nominal Christians that I can reason with. I do get anxious when I think about the other invasion that nobody is paying attention to - the one where they're coming through the front door in exactly the manner everyone says Hispanics should do, particularly because I can see what they're doing in other countries. That is the damage that matters, and we still have time to prevent it.
    WHAT THE F*** DID YOU THINK​ WAS GOING TO HAPPEN???



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  3. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    I think I've mentioned before that there's another misdirection going on here, too. And I hope to show that the damage has *not* already been done.
    Are you differentiating threats and assessing them?

    Wow, that's radical. I like it. Now that you mention it, I haven't seen one single headline about a Panamanian caught trying to infiltrate a military base...

  4. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He ended wars and didn't start any.
    He got us out of Afghanistan and Somalia and made progress on others.
    Not only did he not do any of those things, he increased troop levels in the Middle East, Eastern Europe, and Africa.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  5. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    How many times are you going to cause the entirely predictable response of, "Trump didn't get us out of Afghanistan and Somalia wasn't a war"? You really want us to drive this point home, don't you?
    It doesn't matter how many times you lie about it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Not only did he not do any of those things, he increased troop levels in the Middle East, Eastern Europe, and Africa.
    No, he didn't.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Yes.

    When are you going to denounce all of the people who played a role in engineering and financing this invasion, including Trump?

    Are you praising the people who created the problem because you like tying your panties in a knot in reaction, or because you hope the solution might be bloody?

    Oh, yes, it's because you consider growing government exponentially to be "conservative". It's so contrary to reality that I keep forgetting that people can actually say it with a straight face.
    I denounce all of them.
    But Trump was not one of them.
    Telling that lie when it was Congress and the bureaucracy will not work.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    And?
    A necessary evil is not the root problem.
    Lacking the necessary amount creates greater evil.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    No, he didn't.
    Your gospel of Trump is unconvincing
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.



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  11. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I denounce all of them.
    But Trump was not one of them.
    Telling that lie when it was Congress and the bureaucracy will not work.
    You know all those people who have come here and said, "The Constitution is useless because it didn't prevent all these abuses"?

    Well the Constitution is just a piece of paper. It requires people to uphold it.

    And Trump is not, and has not been one of those people if he can be sworn in as president and be powerless to stop any of it. He's useless. And he's not just a goddamned piece of paper, so he has no excuses.

    I don't care to entrust what's left of my dying nation to the second-to-last clown to stab it (or fail to prevent it from being stabbed). I'm not down for letting him pave the road to hell just because naive people think his intentions are good.

  12. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You know all those people who have come here and said, "The Constitution is useless because it didn't prevent all these abuses"? Well the Constitution is just a piece of paper. It requires people to uphold it. And Trump is not, and has not been one of those people if he can be sworn in as president and be powerless to stop any of it. He's useless. And he's not just a goddamned piece of paper, so he has no excuses. I don't care to entrust what's left of my dying nation to the second-to-last clown to stab it (or fail to prevent it from being stabbed). I'm not down for letting him pave the road to hell just because naive people think his intentions are good.
    He did stop a lot of it.
    More than Ron or Rand ever did. (Not faulting them for not having the power either)
    He's the best option we have and he's going to be able to do even more now.

    The same is true of the Constitution.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    [snip]

    5.22.2024


    With the endorsement of a prominent Republican U.S. senator who was formerly critical of Donald Trump's immigration hawkishness, the Republican party seems wedded this year to a scheme for mass deportation of undocumented migrants. As it embraces the draconian policy, the GOP also attaches itself to the huge price tag inevitably associated with expelling millions of people from the country.

    "If reelected, Donald Trump has said he's willing to build migrant detention camps and deploy the U.S. military to deport the more than 11 million undocumented immigrants in this country," Kristen Welker asked of Sen. Marco Rubio (R–Fla.) on NBC News's Meet the Press. "It would be the largest deportation operation in American history.

    .
    .

    A Big Price Tag

    "The costs of the former president's plan to deport the more than 14 million unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. today could easily reach more than $1 trillion over 10 years, before taking into account the labor costs necessary for such a project or the unforeseen consequences of reducing the labor supply by such drastic amounts over a short period of time," MarketWatch's Chris Matthews reported this week of the results of a Penn Wharton Budget Model (PWBM) analysis.

    Trump's plan is still taking shape, though the former and perhaps future president has proposed using both the military and local law enforcement to eject migrants in this country illegally. If that policy was put into effect, "the removal of one million immigrants would cost the federal government between $40 billion and $50 billion over 10 years, and up to $100 billion if those immigrants were higher-paid workers," Matthews wrote of PWBM's finding.

    .
    .

    CIS offsets the price of deporting millions of people by comparing it to what the organization claims is a "total lifetime fiscal drain of $746.3 billion" for the population of undocumented immigrants. But as MarketWatch observes, most experts disagree that undocumented migrants constitute a net drain – they believe that, on balance, they add to the country's economy.


    The Economy Also Takes a Hit

    "Under current law, unauthorized workers…generally do not qualify for federal benefits," PWBM economists point in a separate analysis. They add that "more deportations, though, leads to less economic growth." As a result, according to PWBM, with the implementation of restrictive policies, "GDP in 2050 will be four percent lower relative to no additional deportations."

    AAF predicted that with deportations, "the labor force would shrink by 6.4 percent and, as a result, in 20 years the U.S. GDP would be almost 6 percent lower than it would be without fully enforcing current law."

    In 2017, the Center for Migrant Studies cautioned that with a mass deportation program, "gross domestic product (GDP) would be reduced by 1.4 percent in the first year, and cumulative GDP would be reduced by $4.7 trillion over 10 years."

    Obviously, there's a range of costs projected for a policy shift to mass deportations of undocumented migrants. That's because it has never been tried on the scale envisioned by Trump and his supporters. In fact, if Rubio is correct that the real number of people in the country in defiance of the law is "upwards of 20, 25, maybe 30 million," deportations will have to be that much more aggressive, with an even higher price tag to match.


    Full article:

    https://reason.com/2024/05/22/trumps...igh-price-tag/


    Mises Wire
    Amir Iraji
    05/31/2024


    Overpopulation has been a concern for a long time, sparking debates about humanity’s future, resource scarcity, and environmental degradation. The temptation to resort to centralized control measures is significant. However, a closer examination reveals two major problems with such an approach.


    The ethical problem

    The violation of individual rights is the first issue. As Murray Rothbard explains in ‘The Ethics Of Liberty,’ individuals have an inherent right to own themselves and their property. Any violation of this right is unethical and unjust. Therefore, no entity, be it an individual or an organization, should have the authority to claim ownership over the entire human population and dictate its size.

    We’ve seen the devastating effects of ignoring this ethical principle throughout history, with authoritarian regimes implementing harsh measures in the name of population control. These actions have led to violations of individual rights and immense human suffering, including forced sterilizations and coercive family planning policies.


    The knowledge problem

    Consider the story of “The Population Bomb,” a book published in 1968 that predicted dire consequences if population growth was not immediately curbed. However, the book’s predictions failed to materialize, largely because they did not account for the innovation and entrepreneurial solutions that humans can generate. This failure underscores the inadequacy of centralized power in addressing the complexities of population dynamics.

    This brings us to the second problem, as Friedrich Hayek explained in his renowned essay ‘The use of knowledge in society’. In this essay he highlights the challenge of centralized planning due to the dispersed nature of information in society. He argues that central authorities lack the necessary knowledge to make optimal decisions for everyone. Instead, decentralized decision-making and the price mechanism can allocate resources more efficiently based on individuals’ localized knowledge and preferences. This emphasizes the superiority of market-based solutions over top-down planning in addressing societal challenges.

    But is deciding the human population’s size an economic issue? Do Hayek’s insights apply to this? Contrary to what many might assume, economics is not just about money or financial transactions; it encompasses the study of human action in the face of scarcity. Population decisions involve individuals and families making choices about resource allocation, consumption patterns, and future planning. These decisions have profound economic implications, as they determine labor supply, demand for goods and services, and the distribution of wealth and resources within a society.

    Population dynamics not only influence productivity, innovation, and economic growth over time but also serve as catalysts for entrepreneurial action, constantly creating new information and solutions. As individuals and families navigate decisions regarding resource allocation, consumption patterns, and future planning, they engage in entrepreneurial endeavors that address emerging challenges, including environmental concerns. Understanding how these decisions are made within the framework of decentralized knowledge and market signals is crucial for comprehending the broader economic landscape. Entrepreneurial solutions play a pivotal role in this process, driving adaptation and innovation in response to changing population dynamics and market demands.

    That’s why while interventionism may not seem to be tyrannical and terrifying, it causes problems by distorting market signals and blocking essential information and can lead to harmful results. For example, in the case of population, subsidies and social programs artificially cushion individuals from the true costs of their decisions, which makes it impossible to calculate the price of having children and all possible alternatives, disrupting the natural feedback mechanisms of the market. This distortion prevents the market from effectively coordinating human action, leading to the potential for both overpopulation and underpopulation.

    But it doesn’t end there; intervention-induced distortion triggers a relentless cycle of population issues and governmental meddling. China serves as a poignant example of this cycle, where the one-child policy initially aimed at controlling population growth led to unintended consequences, including a rapidly aging population and negative population growth. And now their solution to this new problem that was created by intervention is more intervention, without considering the possibility that the new interventions could lead to new unintended consequences.

    The tale of “The Population Bomb” and other similar failed predictions demonstrate that no centralized power possesses the necessary knowledge to determine the optimal size of the human population.


    Conclusion

    In conclusion, the debate surrounding overpopulation underscores the need for a reevaluation of centralized approaches in favor of decentralized solutions rooted in individual freedom and market principles. By rejecting top-down interventions that infringe on individual rights and fail to address the complexities of population dynamics, we pave the way for a more ethical and effective approach to managing population challenges.

    Entrepreneurial action, driven by decentralized knowledge and market signals, plays a crucial role in addressing not only population concerns but also broader societal issues, including environmental sustainability. By empowering individuals to make decisions for themselves, we foster innovation, adaptation, and resilience in the face of evolving demographic trends.

    As we navigate the complexities of population growth, let us embrace the principles of liberty and free enterprise, recognizing that true progress lies in the hands of individuals, not centralized authorities. By doing so, we can forge a path toward a future where human dignity and prosperity are preserved for generations to come.



    https://mises.org/mises-wire/overpop...lized-approach


    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...lized-Approach
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  14. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He did stop a lot of it.
    More than Ron or Rand ever did. (Not faulting them for not having the power either)
    He's the best option we have and he's going to be able to do even more now.

    The same is true of the Constitution.

    https://original.antiwar.com/mbenjam...oken-promises/
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  15. #133
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Bunk.
    Your Bunk is Bunk:

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...lei-%96-Part-I
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  17. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And?
    A necessary evil is not the root problem.
    Lacking the necessary amount creates greater evil.
    Well, it's not merely a question of "amount" -- the Rs and Ds are happy to cross-swords till kingdom-come over the "amount" of government we need, because they know it doesn't matter, all that matters is that they control it, in whatever amount. But, for some mysterious reason, the actual "amount" always only ever grows, and the asymptote always turns out to be infinite.

    The root problem is that the bias towards "mOaR GuBbErMiNt" is the simple and direct result of individuals in society abdicating self-responsibility. As long as there is an omnipotent State seeking ever-more power, and as long as there are immoral people in society (and there will always be immoral people in society, this side of Paradise), then the result will always be a rent-seeking arrangement between those who have power, and those who will support them in exchange for money. The founding fathers understood that democracy necessarily results in the public voting themselves endless handouts from the public purse, but the mere elimination of the evil of democracy is not a sufficient condition for freedom. What is? A moral society. And how do you get a moral society? There is no political answer to this question, and there cannot be. The only correct answer is the Gospel, but the proximate obstacle to the Gospel is -- surprise, surprise -- the very kingdoms of the world which Satan offered to the Lord Jesus in Matthew 4. What a surprise that the premiere instrument of theft, murder, rape, and every other form of crime and evil known to mankind -- that is, the State -- is also the primary material obstacle to the Gospel, and always has been. It's almost like the omnipotent State is the ultimate idol. In fact, it's exactly like that. The State just is Nebuchadnezzar's golden statue. The Beast System was never future-tense, it was always present-tense. The State is the primary material opponent of the Gospel, par excellence. The State, not the Mafia, is the primary corruptor of society. The State, not the petty crooks, has been the primary opponent and persecutor of the missionaries and ministers of the Gospel. The State is the enemy, the State is Satan-incarnate and the State will only reach its final-form in the person of Antichrist, who will be Satan-incarnate as an individual man. The Antichrist will be the Superman of Nietzsche, the Socialist Man of Marx, the alchemical magnum opus of the Gnostics, all combined. Everything that the idolatrous masses want to use the State as a stand-in for, the Antichrist will really be. The State is the bathtub meth of the wicked, while they wait for the medical-grade shipment to arrive. The State is an abomination in se. No good can come from it, and this is why it is slated to be smashed to pieces like clay pottery with an iron rod (Psalm 2) and hurled into the flames of the lake of fire (Rev. 19:19-21).

    MAGA had better wake up and stop playing tiddly-winks. The other side is not playing... on a biblical scale of "not playing". This will be escalated as high as they have to escalate it in order to win. Each of them has too much at stake, individually, to do any other wise...
    Last edited by ClaytonB; 06-03-2024 at 10:26 PM.
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  18. #136
    Trump just went off
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeoJ-SvHhQM
    {Decoy Voice | 29 May 2024}

    President Donald Trump just went on Timcast IRL with Tim Pool to over 100,000 live viewers. A million people will eventually see this, but does the former Republican POTUS appearing on a podcast sway your opinion on him?

    00:00 - Trumpcast IRL
    00:12 - Immigration
    02:04 - Draining the Swamp
    03:30 - The War
    05:17 - Lockdowns
    07:32 - Cryptocurrency
    08:40 - The Result




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