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Thread: Trump on immigration & war w/Tim Pool at LP 2024 national convention

  1. #1

    Trump on immigration & war w/Tim Pool at LP 2024 national convention

    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 06-09-2024 at 04:33 PM. Reason: added "RELATED" links
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  3. #2
    [SPLIT FROM: Libertarian Party 2024 POTUS/VP ticket: Chase Oliver & Mike ter Maat]

    Ah, OK, got it now.

    I don't see where I said I didn't care about NGO funding.

    But I am in favor of every cut you can possibly imagine.

    But I don't really care, and the reason why, is even if you ended all the funding, the handouts, the free $5000 Visa cards...even if you ended all of it, there would still be an invasion going on.

    These people are being organized by enemies of our nation, funded and organized outside the US, and they will keep coming until we wake up and repel them with force and deport them, or we are conquered, and become third class citizens in what was our home.

    And our notions of freedom, liberty, bills of rights and everything else will relegated to that status as well.

    I can't make myself any more clear than that I think.
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 06-09-2024 at 08:12 PM. Reason: added "SPLIT FROM" notice
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Ah, OK, got it now.

    I don't see where I said I didn't care about NGO funding.

    But I don't, and the reason why, is even if you ended all the funding, the handouts, the free $5000 Visa cards...even if you ended all of it, there would still be an invasion going on.

    These people are being organized by enemies of our nation, funded and organized outside the US, and they will keep coming until we wake up and repel and deport them, or we are conquered, and become third class citizens in what was our home.

    And our notions of freedom, liberty, bills of rights and everything else will relegated to that status as well.
    That's what I call rightarian philosophy - which is no better than leftarians. The first rule is to defund the source, and then see where you are. You don't call for more government/police-state solutions [which is happening before our very eyes] while the same government is creating and funding the actual problem.

    Now you see why I don't like rightarians anymore than I do leftarians - they are all stinking-statists, plain and simple.

    But I'd still have a beer with ya
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    That's what I call rightarian philosophy - which is no better than leftarians. The first rule is to defund the source, and then see where you are. You don't call for more government/police-state solutions [which is happening before our very eyes] while the same government is creating and funding the actual problem.

    Now you see why I don't like rightarians anymore than I do leftarians - they are all stinking-statists, plain and simple.

    But I'd still have a beer with ya
    Same here...it's called a disagreement.

    It's one I have had with libertarian doctrine for thirty years.

    I support strong borders and immigration control.

    I also support tariffs.

    And a number of other things that libertarians oppose.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Same here...it's called a disagreement.

    It's one I have had with libertarian doctrine for thirty years.

    I support strong borders and immigration control.

    I also support tariffs.

    And a number of other things that libertarians oppose.
    And the reason why government will always grow and have direct control over your life [with consent, no less], so don't cry like a little baby about what is/has been happening. I hate to put it this way because I believed there was some hope, but, big, expansive government loves people exactly like you ;-)
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    And the reason why government will always grow and have direct control over your life [with consent, no less], so don't cry like a little baby about what is/has been happening. I hate to put it this way because I believed there was some hope, but, big, expansive government loves people exactly like you ;-)
    Why should I take advice on how to save a nation and a people and a culture from someone who does not believe in any of those things?
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Why should I take advice on how to save a nation and a people and a culture from someone who does not believe in any of those things?
    I don't know. You have to figure that out.

    Sound money & full accountability, and individual natural rights are off the top of my head, none of which you support. But, each to his own.

    Hey, your way has been tried and done since your government contract [Constitution] was ratified, and look at the result, so why worry about anything? Just keep the machine moving; right hand feeds the left, feeds the right, on-and-on. Plus, it gives you the added bonus of giving you something to chuckle gripe about.


    Which makes the whole idea of secession preposterous, when the constitution you so revere was designed to promote socialism in the first place
    Last edited by PAF; 05-27-2024 at 12:06 PM.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I don't know. You have to figure that out.

    Sound money & full accountability, and individual natural rights are off the top of my head, none of which you support. But, each to his own.

    Hey, your way has been tried and done since your government contract [Constitution] was ratified, and look at the result, so why worry about anything? Just keep the machine moving; right hand feeds the left, feeds the right, on-and-on. Plus, it gives you the added bonus of giving you something to chuckle gripe about.


    Which makes the whole idea of secession preposterous, when the constitution you so revere was designed to promote socialism in the first place
    The Constitution is invalid. Rhode Island signed under duress.
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I don't know. You have to figure that out.
    I have.

    You do not like my solutions, but they will work.

    Sound money & full accountability, and individual natural rights are off the top of my head, none of which you support. But, each to his own.
    I defy you to find a quote from me anywhere of me denouncing the concept of sound money.

    Or natural, individual rights.

    Hey, your way has been tried and done since your government contract [Constitution] was ratified, and look at the result, so why worry about anything? Just keep the machine moving; right hand feeds the left, feeds the right, on-and-on. Plus, it gives you the added bonus of giving you something to chuckle gripe about.
    For hundreds of years, as colonies and as an independent nation, we led the world in innovation, manufacturing, standard of living and liberty.

    60 years ago, when I was born, we started the debt machine, when Henry Kissinger handed our manufacturing and money over to the Communist Chinese.

    At the same time, we opened the nation's doors to every nation and people on earth, many from abject $#@!holes and idiot populations.

    And it's been all downhill since.

    The body politic of this country, seduced by the alien mind virus, decided to shoot itself in the head.

    I was just an infant or not even born yet.

    Don't complain to me that corpse is now stinking.

    I'm trying to get it out in the backyard to bury, while carrying a bag of lime on my shoulder, and you're off to the side, mocking me and throwing banana peels.

    Which makes the whole idea of secession preposterous, when the constitution you so revere was designed to promote socialism in the first place
    I take my cues from the Declaration of Independence.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I have.

    You do not like my solutions, but they will work.
    No I don't like them. Because they won't work. Not without a full-blown police-state, which involves violating my individual natural born rights in the process. I don't sacrifice liberty for your or anybody else's false-sense of security.

    I defy you to find a quote from me anywhere of me denouncing the concept of sound money.
    Does "No...I'm not going to do that." ring a bell?

    Or natural, individual rights.
    See first sentence above.

    For hundreds of years, as colonies and as an independent nation, we led the world in innovation, manufacturing, standard of living and liberty.

    60 years ago, when I was born, we started the debt machine, when Henry Kissinger handed our manufacturing and money over to the Communist Chinese.
    There you go again, blaming the wrong time, and the wrong people.

    At the same time, we opened the nation's doors to every nation and people on earth, many from abject $#@!holes and idiot populations.

    And it's been all downhill since.
    I blame the ones taking advantage. I blame the ones who put such things into law. But I blame the ones who allowed it to happen even more, as well as those who don't care about spreading the truth to the root cause of the problem, certainly after it has been spelled out to them.

    The body politic of this country, seduced by the alien mind virus, decided to shoot itself in the head.

    I was just an infant or not even born yet.
    But you're here now, trying to make a difference. What difference that is, I have no clue.

    Don't complain to me that corpse is now stinking.
    Why not? Who should I complain to when "we the people", not government politicians, determine our fate?

    I'm trying to get it out in the backyard to bury, while carrying a bag of lime on my shoulder, and you're off to the side, mocking me and throwing banana peels.
    Take a Tums, AF, it's just friendly biker-bar conversation

    I take my cues from the Declaration of Independence.
    No you don't. Because "illegal". You're a Constitutionalist, after all, don't you remember?
    Last edited by PAF; 05-27-2024 at 01:59 PM.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    No I don't like them. Because they won't work. Not without a full-blown police-state, which involves violating my individual natural born rights in the process. I don't sacrifice liberty for your or anybody else's false-sense of security.
    How does placing Marines along the border, while still allowing free access to citizens, both in and out, create a police state?

    You could eliminate the 100 mile Constitution Free Zones right off the bat.

    Does "No...I'm not going to do that." ring a bell?
    That was in reference to changing the "Invasion USA" thread name.

    What does that have to do with sound money?
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 05-27-2024 at 03:47 PM.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    How does placing Marines along the border, while still allowing free access to citizens, both in and out, create a police state?
    If there is no natural right to move about, then there is a police state - particularly if free movement is actively curtailed by armed goons.
    If the privilege of free movement is not God-given and is doled out by the state, then that is at least one natural right you deny.
    WHAT THE F*** DID YOU THINK​ WAS GOING TO HAPPEN???

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    If there is no natural right to move about, then there is a police state - particularly if free movement is actively curtailed by armed goons.
    If the privilege of free movement is not God-given and is doled out by the state, then that is at least one natural right you deny.
    I shoot a man invading my home.

    Am I guilty of "restricting his right to move about"?
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    If there is no natural right to move about, then there is a police state - particularly if free movement is actively curtailed by armed goons.
    If the privilege of free movement is not God-given and is doled out by the state, then that is at least one natural right you deny.
    Certainly. But what constitutes a special or emergency situation where such actions may be temporarily necessary?

    By almost any measure, what we have now is an invasion, albeit one funded and encouraged by elements of our own government and the WEF-related global plutocracy. Because of this, the current administration denies that it is an emergency, and thus does nothing.

    But that does not change the essential facts, nor does it prevent people from speaking out against it, at least for the time being while we still have a little freedom of speech and thought. Those "freedoms", or natural rights, are arguably much more at risk than freedom of movement (for now).
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I shoot a man invading my home.

    Am I guilty of "restricting his right to move about"?
    In your home is fine, if that's what you need to do. For open public places, where is your deed?
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Certainly. But what constitutes a special or emergency situation where such actions may be temporarily necessary?

    By almost any measure, what we have now is an invasion, albeit one funded and encouraged by elements of our own government and the WEF-related global plutocracy. Because of this, the current administration denies that it is an emergency, and thus does nothing.

    But that does not change the essential facts, nor does it prevent people from speaking out against it, at least for the time being while we still have a little freedom of speech and thought. Those "freedoms", or natural rights, are arguably much more at risk than freedom of movement (for now).
    Without picking on anybody in particular [ @Anti Federalist ], most people that I talk to have not a clue what an "NGO" even is. They incorrectly believe that they are coming here using their own money or using local community funding from where they originate. Don't you think if just the republicans alone would know that their tax money is funding the DHS/NGOs who are transporting them in that there wouldn't be ground-swell to DEFUND them?

    Which is why I asked AF to rename his "Invaders" thread, to help raise awareness to any visitors to this site. But, bitching and moaning and a call for arms seems to be more popular.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I shoot a man invading my home.

    Am I guilty of "restricting his right to move about"?

    The next time someone crosses the border straight into your living room, blast away with my blessing.

    Otherwise, not a valid analogy.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Without picking on anybody in particular [ @Anti Federalist ], most people that I talk to have not a clue what an "NGO" even is. They incorrectly believe that they are coming here using their own money or using local community funding from where they originate. Don't you think if just the republicans alone would know that their tax money is funding the DHS/NGOs who are transporting them in that there wouldn't be ground-swell to DEFUND them?

    Which is why I asked AF to rename his "Invaders" thread, to help raise awareness to any visitors to this site. But, bitching and moaning and a call for arms seems to be more popular.
    They came before the NGOs and they would invade without the NGOs.
    They come to consume the wealth they didn't create and impose their tyrannical politics and criminal tendencies.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    The next time someone crosses the border straight into your living room, blast away with my blessing.

    Otherwise, not a valid analogy.
    My country is equivalent to my house when it comes to foreigners.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    In your home is fine, if that's what you need to do. For open public places, where is your deed?

    We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post

    Oh, that centralist-socialist thing which transfers wealth and individual liberty that I never contractually signed, and then they stuck on 10 Natural Rights to persuade the people, but which nobody pays attention to.

    True colors by Cindy Lauper
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Oh, that centralist-socialist thing which transfers wealth and individual liberty that I never contractually signed, and then they stuck on 10 Natural Rights to persuade the people, but which nobody pays attention to.

    True colors by Cindy Lauper
    Better than anything your beloved Marxist invader criminals believe in.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I shoot a man invading my home.

    Am I guilty of "restricting his right to move about"?
    Your home is just that. Your home.
    There is no "our" home, comrade.

    But speaking of which, why don't they just start shooting? There is no logical reason not to.
    WHAT THE F*** DID YOU THINK​ WAS GOING TO HAPPEN???

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Better than anything your beloved Marxist invader criminals believe in.
    Hey, it was your people who signed off on the bills to take my money [taxes] which fund your DHS/NGOs, just so that you/they [proper pronouns] can implement more police-state "solutions" - courtesy of the constitution.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    My country is equivalent to my house when it comes to foreigners.

    Not even close.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Hey, it was your people who signed off on the bills to take my money [taxes] which fund your DHS/NGOs, just so that you/they [proper pronouns] can implement more police-state "solutions" - courtesy of the constitution.
    Not my people.
    More like Constitution haters like yourself, many descended from immigrants who never should have been let in.

    You should go live in Mexico under the cartels and communists, and Mexico is a paradise compared to most of the places the people you want to let in come from.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Not even close.
    Exactly the same in the context.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Not my people.
    More like Constitution haters like yourself, many descended from immigrants who never should have been let in.
    This descendant of immigrants values freedom, liberty and fiscal responsibility more than an entire country of you.

    You should go live in Mexico under the cartels and communists, and Mexico is a paradise compared to most of the places the people you want to let in come from.
    I actually do part time. Now if I can convince some of my family to uproot... I'd save even more on travel expenses alone ;-)



    Now, back to topic, can you provide On the Record on Chase, otherwise I'll do it myself.
    Last edited by PAF; 05-27-2024 at 08:16 PM.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    The next time someone crosses the border straight into your living room, blast away with my blessing.

    Otherwise, not a valid analogy.
    I think it is.

    I would not expect you or PAF to agree, both of you being anarchists.

    But to those of us who do believe in nation and a homeland, it's just as much a front door as the one 10 feet from me is.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I think it is.

    I would not expect you or PAF to agree, both of you being anarchists.

    But to those of us who do believe in nation and a homeland, it's just as much a front door as the one 10 feet from me is.
    So, not only do you not believe in the following:

    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    If there is no natural right to move about, then there is a police state - particularly if free movement is actively curtailed by armed goons.
    If the privilege of free movement is not God-given and is doled out by the state, then that is at least one natural right you deny.
    You also do not believe in Private Property Rights, but that of government, ie; shared, ie; socialism.


    The wonderful world of government indoctrination
    Last edited by PAF; 05-27-2024 at 08:31 PM.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

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