Tariffs Are A War On American Consumers

[PAF]

May 17, 2024

https://rumble.com/v4vs6yn-tariffs-a...jcwo5&mc=2sdbb

One of the greatest ironies in America, of all places, is that politicians have the citizens cheering on the raising of taxes on themselves. How so? Well, whenever the government spends money it doesn’t have, that the Federal Reserve counterfeits into existence, that’s a tax. It’s called inflation! The tax is paid by higher prices for the things we buy. When you go to the supermarket, remember the $6 Trillion "Covid Relief.” We’re still paying for that “relief.” When government “slaps tariffs” on another country, that’s a tax on the American consumers! Americans have bought into the “I’m from government and I’m here to help,” line, and we’re paying dearly for it.

http://www.ronpaullibertyreport.com/

[CaptUSA]

So, does this stop SS from libeling Ron Paul???

[PAF]

So, does this stop SS from libeling Ron Paul???

The SS, the black-uniformed elite corps and self-described “political soldiers” of the Nazi Party, would be opposed to Ron Paul and anything to do with liberty.

Oh, my bad, you meant SS:

Tariffs... have benefits as well.

They protect your independence and liberty...

[CaptUSA]

The SS, the black-uniformed elite corps and self-described “political soldiers” of the Nazi Party, would be opposed to Ron Paul and anything to do with liberty.

Oh, my bad, you meant SS:

[Swordsmyth]

Ron is wrong.
He is sometimes.

[Swordsmyth]

The SS, the black-uniformed elite corps and self-described “political soldiers” of the Nazi Party, would be opposed to Ron Paul and anything to do with liberty.

Oh, my bad, you meant SS:

[acptulsa]

So, does this stop SS from libeling Ron Paul???

Nope.

[CaptUSA]

Nope.

Well, at least now he says he opposes Ron's views instead of lying about them and pretending Ron Paul supports that tariff nonsense... Baby steps.

Ron is wrong.

[acptulsa]

Well, at least now he says he opposes Ron's views instead of lying about them and pretending Ron Paul supports that tariff nonsense... Baby steps.

A real baby step would be him skipping the step where he pretends Ron Paul agrees with him on the next subject Zerohedge gets the MAGA sheep all stirred up about.

[Swordsmyth]

Well, at least now he says he opposes Ron's views instead of lying about them and pretending Ron Paul supports that tariff nonsense... Baby steps.

Ron does support tariffs to replace other taxes.
He just doesn't support them as defense against enemy trade warfare.
He's closer to my position than yours.

[CaptUSA]

Ron does support tariffs to replace other taxes.
He just doesn't support them as defense against enemy trade warfare.
He's closer to my position than yours.

What the living hell are you talking about?! Ron Paul's position and mine are EXACTLY the same. Because we come from the same school of economics.

We can accept low, uniform tariffs as a less objectional way of funding the limited functions of a federal government. We REJECT government protectionism!

Your position is the same statist claptrap we've heard for decades from lefties. You are completely opposed to Ron's position! Don't backtrack now. So much for those baby steps.

Ron is wrong.

[acptulsa]

Ron is wrong.

He's closer to my position than yours.

Never mind none of it is true. Even if it were, why would you brag about it?

Could it be you're a lot more worried about being in alignment with authoritay than with being accurate?

[PAF]

Ron does support tariffs to replace other taxes.
He just doesn't support them as defense against enemy trade warfare.
He's closer to my position than yours.

Title: "Tariffs Are A War On American Consumers"

Ron's statement: "When government “slaps tariffs” on another country, that’s a tax on the American consumers!"


For more information:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...tend-Otherwise


Btw, when is your new Bogus Book slated to be in stores? lol

[Anti Federalist]

I am in favor of tariffs as a means in which to fund limited government functions and to encourage domestic growth, manufacturing and production.

I consider Ron a national treasure, a statesman of epic proportions, all while being humble, soft spoken and mild mannered.

We disagree on this position.

[acptulsa]

We disagree on this position.

Sorry, Ron's right. But kudos for having respect. More than some can say.

[Brian4Liberty]

Ron is wrong.
He is sometimes.

What is the timestamp and context in the OP video?

[CCTelander]

What is the timestamp and context in the OP video?

The timestamp and context of what exactly? I'm at a loss as to what you're looking for here.

[Swordsmyth]

What is the timestamp and context in the OP video?

Starts at about 11:00.
He's saying tariffs are bad and cause inflation.

Tariffs do not cause inflation, money printing causes inflation and deindustrialization causes money printing.

He also agrees our money pays the tariffs, but often the foreign industry will lower its prices to compensate, and if you buy domestic products the government doesn't get any tariff money.

He says the market can solve the problem, but it can't when the problem is slave labor and subsidization in tyrannical countries.

He says free trade is a moral issue when it supports slavery and tyranny.

He says we need to make the government live within its means even though buying slave labor produced and communist subsidized masks the market signals that might cause people to do something about it.
Free trade literally enables deficit spending and inflation because it robs foreign slaves and taxpayers to give a temporary perception of prosperity.

They talk about big corporations, big corporations LOVE Free Trade, they can afford to move to China to take advantage of slave labor while their smaller domestic competition cannot.
Free Trade creates giant globalist mega corporations and eliminates competition.
It also destroys the labor market by sending all the jobs overseas so they can reduce the wages they pay in all the remaining industries, and that wage loss is much bigger than any reduction in prices that comes from buying from slavers.

Free Trade is to the physical economy what the Federal Reserve is to the monetary system, a way for those with power and wealth to take an even bigger lion's share of future productivity and prevent anyone lower down from rising to compete with them.
Instead of a magic money machine it's a magic box to extract assets from without having to play by the same rules as those who have no access to it, especially those pesky rules about slavery and government subsidies.
It destroys independence, sovereignty, the political power of the average man, and liberty.

[CCTelander]

Starts at about 11:00.
He's saying tariffs are bad and cause inflation.

Tariffs do not cause inflation, money printing causes inflation and deindustrialization causes money printing.

He also agrees our money pays the tariffs, but often the foreign industry will lower its prices to compensate, and if you buy domestic products the government doesn't get any tariff money.

He says the market can solve the problem, but it can't when the problem is slave labor and subsidization in tyrannical countries.

He says free trade is a moral issue when it supports slavery and tyranny.

He says we need to make the government live within its means even though buying slave labor produced and communist subsidized masks the market signals that might cause people to do something about it.
Free trade literally enables deficit spending and inflation because it robs foreign slaves and taxpayers to give a temporary perception of prosperity.

They talk about big corporations, big corporations LOVE Free Trade, they can afford to move to China to take advantage of slave labor while their smaller domestic competition cannot.
Free Trade creates giant globalist mega corporations and eliminates competition.
It also destroys the labor market by sending all the jobs overseas so they can reduce the wages they pay in all the remaining industries, and that wage loss is much bigger than any reduction in prices that comes from buying from slavers.

Free Trade is to the physical economy what the Federal Reserve is to the monetary system, a way for those with power and wealth to take an even bigger lion's share of future productivity and prevent anyone lower down from rising to compete with them.
Instead of a magic money machine it's a magic box to extract assets from without having to play by the same rules as those who have no access to it, especially those pesky rules about slavery and government subsidies.
It destroys independence, sovereignty, the political power of the average man, and liberty.

The bold above is a lie. Ron nowhere said that tariffs cause inflation. In fact he repeated several times that tariffs DO NOT cause inflation but do cause higher prices. He then several times noted that the higher prices caused by tariffs combined with those caused by inflation were really hurting American consumers.

The rest of your comments are just more of the same anti-freedom garbage you always post on this topic that I don’t have the time right now to deal with. Nor the inclination, for that matter since truth on this topic falls upon deaf ears where you and a few others are concerned. I’ve wasted enough of my life trying to convince obdurately resistant people that freedom is better than their familiar, and therefor comfortable, slavery. Enjoy your chains.

[Swordsmyth]

The bold above is a lie. Ron nowhere said that tariffs cause inflation. In fact he repeated several times that tariffs DO NOT cause inflation but do cause higher prices. He then several times noted that the higher prices caused by tariffs combined with those caused by inflation were really hurting American consumers.

The rest of your comments are just more of the same anti-freedom garbage you always post on this topic that I don’t have the time right now to deal with. Nor the inclination, for that matter since truth on this topic falls upon deaf ears where you and a few others are concerned. I’ve wasted enough of my life trying to convince obdurately resistant people that freedom is better than their familiar, and therefor comfortable, slavery. Enjoy your chains.

It's the first thing he says at 11:00.
He says it adds fuel to the fire of inflation.

You aren't replying to the rest because you can't, it's all fact, free trade is anti-liberty.

[CCTelander]

It's the first thing he says at 11:00.
He says it adds fuel to the fire of inflation.

You aren't replying to the rest because you can't, it's all fact, free trade is anti-liberty.

You’re lying again. As I noted above, Ron SPECIFICALLY STATED that tariffs DO NOT cause inflation. The “adds fuel” comment was explained to mean that the higher prices caused by tariffs all by themselves add to the consumers burden when added to the higher prices caused by inflation. NOWHERE did Ron even I’m-ly that tariffs in any way cause inflation.

As for the rest, your claims have been dealt with by myself and several others multiple times. Fletcher got it all wrong and his book is fit for composting and that’s about it.

[Swordsmyth]

You’re lying again. As I noted above, Ron SPECIFICALLY STATED that tariffs DO NOT cause inflation. The “adds fuel” comment was explained to mean that the higher prices caused by tariffs all by themselves add to the consumers burden when added to the higher prices caused by inflation. NOWHERE did Ron even I’m-ly that tariffs in any way cause inflation.

As for the rest, your claims have been dealt with by myself and several others multiple times. Fletcher got it all wrong and his book is fit for composting and that’s about it.

People can watch it for themselves and hear the truth.
They can also understand the logic in my arguments whether you deny it or not.

[CCTelander]

People can watch it for themselves and hear the truth.
They can also understand the logic in my arguments whether you deny it or not.

Yes, people CAN watch it for themselves. Ironically enough, and unfortunately so wrt your claims, Ron is making the same exact point in this video that I tried to make in that last thread on this topic, namely that the higher prices invariably caused by protectionist tariffs, ON TOP OF the increased prices caused by monetary inflation are really putting the squeeze on American consumers. You tried to disingenuously claim that I said that tariffs caused inflation in that one. At least you’re a consistent liar.

[acptulsa]

You aren't replying to the rest because you can't, it's all fact, free trade is anti-liberty.

With the possible exception of Canada and Mexico, and certain things like software, foreign production requires significant additional transportation costs. If you want to find a reason why that cost isn't prohibitive, you can buy a clue at your local OSHA office.

Once again, you're demanding draconian top-down policies as band aids to staunch the bleeding caused by other draconian top-down policies.

[CCTelander]

With the possible exception of Canada and Mexico, and certain things like software, foreign production requires significant additional transportation costs. If you want to find a reason why that cost isn't prohibitive, you can buy a clue at your local OSHA office.

Once again, you're demanding draconian top-down policies as band aids to staunch the bleeding caused by other draconian top-down policies.

Well, what else would one expect? After all, Swordy is a “draconian top-down” kind of guy.

[acptulsa]

Well, what else would one expect? After all, Swordy is a “draconian top-down” kind of guy.

Innovation comes from the bottom up. MAGA is therefore fundamentally flawed at its very heart. Government has never made America great, cannot make America great, and will never make it great again. Is Cuba great? These hand-wringers run around screeching that America can't compete with Chinese slave labor, but why aren't they willing to give it a go?

They have no faith in freedom. The South lost the war because it had never been able to compete with the North. Which one had slavery? Britain ruled the world for a century after abolishing slavery. We competed the USSR into the dustbin of history when we were about as free as anyone has been in the industrial age.

They can see the "advantage" of slave labor but don't see the costs associated with keeping them on the plantation. They don't seem to have the eyes and the imagination to see the advantages of freedom and the innovation it fosters. They don't see that while the South was busy maintaining slavery, the free people of the North were inventing more perfect slaves -- machinery. Just to offer one example.

Republicans mutter, there oughta be a law. The difference between the majority of Republicans and libertarians is that libertarians have faith in freedom. It isn't something we just pay lip service to. We know in our hearts that, on a macro level, it works best. And do you know what? That's the difference between libertarians and liberals, too. Then neither of them can begin to understand the mind-bending concept that they have more in common with each other than either has with us.

It's going to be Republicans who ultimately throw the Constitution in the trash. Wait and see.

[Brian4Liberty]

Starts at about 11:00.
He's saying tariffs are bad and cause inflation.

Tariffs do not cause inflation, money printing causes inflation and deindustrialization causes money printing.
...

Ok, here's the exact quote:

"Tariffs are bad because they push prices up, but those prices are going up because of bad policy, which adds fuel to the fire of the inflation of the devaluation of the currency."

First of all, we need to be conscious of the use of the word "inflation". For most people, "inflation" refers to price inflation. But Ron did not use the word "inflation". He said "push prices up". That is specific. It means price inflation, which can have many causes. Monetary inflation causes prices to go up. Taxes cause the price to go up. High demand and/or low supply causes prices to go up. It's just basic economics.

Ron Paul refers to both a tax increase in the form of tariffs causing prices to go up, in addition to monetary inflation causing prices to go up.

I see nothing inaccurate or wrong about what Ron just said.

And more importantly, Chris Rossini responds and points out that taxes never go down. Ron Paul's POTUS campaigns included a call for a flat tariff to replace and abolish the income tax. If that were to be partially put into policy, then for every increase in tariffs, there should be a corresponding decrease in income tax to offset. That would be acceptable. Even better to abolish the income tax.

In terms of trade wars, sanction wars, cold wars, and real wars, those will often include tariffs and embargos, which will disrupt international trade, and like all war, should be avoided.

The global race to the bottom and the rise of the global kleptocratic plutocracy is a different problem. That is a war that has been and is being waged upon average people around the world, whether it is elimination of the working middle class in America, or the use of slave and child labor in China. That is a problem, but I doubt a few individual tariffs here or there will solve that one.

[CaptUSA]

I am in favor of tariffs as a means in which to fund limited government functions and to encourage domestic growth, manufacturing and production.

I consider Ron a national treasure, a statesman of epic proportions, all while being humble, soft spoken and mild mannered.

We disagree on this position.

I don't want to give up on you because once you understand this, it becomes obvious and you can no longer see it the other way. Protectionist tariffs hamper domestic growth, manufacturing and production. First, because politicians are incentivized to help their elite donors and it requires bureaucrats to monitor and implement correctly. Second, because it harms the American consumer who then has fewer dollars to spend on other industries which also require manufacturing and production. Since those industries are harmed at a greater rate (though, it's dispersed), the overall growth is lower than it would have been otherwise.

I understand it sounds counterintuitive at first, but lots of libertarian thinking does. But once you see what's happening at the big picture, it's hard to fall back. Please don't give up on learning about this.

[PAF]

...the use of slave and child labor in China. That is a problem, but I doubt a few individual tariffs here or there will solve that one.

I agree with most of your post, except for the last sentence. Here again, who decides?

Not trying to derail, I believe there is another thread where this has been raised, but I do hear comments every so often that tariffs will help "mitigate" this, which should not be justification at all.

[snip]

There is a distinction between a child that is working and a child that is being exploited through work and a child that is being forced to work. In many countries, children are a necessary part of the economic structure of their family and take on a job while still under parental protection and work in suitable conditions.

https://reliefweb.int/report/world/w...nd-child-slave

[Invisible Man]

Even if you support tariffs, you should also support having them be voluntary. They shouldn't be imposed on people who don't support them.

If we didn't have tariffs, those of you who support them could (and would, provided you are sincere) just voluntarily send extra money to the government every time you buy something from someone from a different country.

I'm sure that all of you who think tariffs are too low have already been doing this, unless you don't really mean what you say.