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Thread: Battle of the Stupid: The Debates are On

  1. #1

    Battle of the Stupid: The Debates are On

    They're debating, although it's kind of late for it now.

    https://apnews.com/article/2024-elec...041b23662d7da8

    Here's a snippet:

    WASHINGTON (AP) — President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump on Wednesday agreed to hold two campaign debates — the first on June 27 hosted by CNN and the second on Sept. 10 hosted by ABC — setting the stage for the first presidential face-off in just weeks.

    The quick agreement on the timetable to meet followed the Democrat’s announcement that he will not participate in fall presidential debates sponsored by the nonpartisan commission that has organized them for more than three decades. Biden’s campaign instead proposed that media outlets directly organize the debates with the presumptive Democratic and Republican nominees. Trump, in a post on his Truth Social site, said he was “Ready and Willing to Debate” Biden.

    Hours later, Biden said he accepted an invitation from CNN, adding, “Over to you, Donald.” Trump said on Truth Social he’d be there, adding, “Let’s get ready to Rumble!!!” And soon after that, they agreed to the second debate on ABC.

    “Trump says he’ll arrange his own transportation,” Biden wrote on X. “I’ll bring my plane, too. I plan on keeping it for another four years.”

    The swiftness with which the match-ups came together reflects how each of the two profoundly unpopular candidates thinks he can get the better of his opponent in a head-to-head showdown. The first debate will play out amid a busy and unsettled political calendar, following the expected conclusion of Trump’s hush money trial in New York, foreign trips by Biden to France and Italy, the end of the Supreme Court’s term, and the expected start of two criminal trials for the president’s son, Hunter Biden.

    CNN said that its debate would be held in its Atlanta studios and that “no audience will be present.” It said moderators and other details would be announced later. Disagreements about moderators and debate rules were some of the very questions that prompted the formation of the Commission on Presidential Debates in 1987.

    The two campaigns and television networks had held weeks of informal talks on ways to circumvent the commission’s grip on presidential debates, owing to years of complaints and perceived slights, according to two people familiar with the matter.

    Biden’s campaign had proposed excluding third-party candidates, such as Robert F. Kennedy Jr., from the debates outright. Under the debate commission’s rules, Kennedy or other third-party candidates could qualify if they secured ballot access sufficient to claim 270 Electoral Votes and polled at 15% or higher in a selection of national polls.

    Kennedy accused Biden and Trump of “colluding to lock America into a head-to-head match-up that 70% say they do not want.”

    “They are trying to exclude me from their debate because they are afraid I would win,” Kennedy said. “Keeping viable candidates off the debate stage undermines democracy.”

    CNN held open the door to Kennedy’s participation if he or any other candidate met polling and ballot access requirements similar to the commission’s.

    As recently as Wednesday morning, Trump expressed his desire for a large live audience for his debates with Biden.

    “I would strongly recommend more than two debates and, for excitement purposes, a very large venue, although Biden is supposedly afraid of crowds - That’s only because he doesn’t get them,” Trump said. “Just tell me when, I’ll be there.”

    Trump has been pushing for more debates and earlier debates, arguing voters should be able to see the two men face off well before early voting begins in September. He has repeatedly said he will debate Biden “anytime, anywhere, any place,” even proposing the two men face off outside the Manhattan courthouse where he is currently on criminal trial in a hush money case. He also has been taunting Biden with an empty lectern at some of his rallies.

    Trump’s campaign on Wednesday challenged the Biden campaign to agree to at least two other debates between the two candidates, beside the June and September dates. The Biden campaign did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

    Biden’s campaign has long held a grudge against the nonpartisan commission for failing to evenly apply its rules during the 2020 Biden-Trump matchups — most notably when it didn’t enforce its COVID-19 testing rules on Trump and his entourage.
    It sounds like the debates are going to be an even bigger sham, though:

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/her...p-debate-offer

    Here's a TL;DR version:

    • No Audience
    • No RFK Jr. or any other 3rd-party candidate
    • Limited news outlets
    • Candidate mics must mute after time expires


    Basically, nothing that might distract Biden or allow him to start rambling.



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by A. Havnes View Post
    They're debating

    • No Audience
    • No RFK Jr. or any other 3rd-party candidate
    • Limited news outlets
    • Candidate mics must mute after time expires

    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  4. #3

  5. #4
    Some BS restrictions to agree to but it's Trump's fault, kept boasting anytime anyplace
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  6. #5


    Trump: "I'm building The Wall!" Biden: "I'm building The Wall too!"

    Trump: "I love Tariffs!" Biden: "I love Tariffs too!"

    Biden: ”My turn to go first. We need a North American Union!” Trump: “Sorry Joe, I beat ya to it!”

    Trump: "Operation Warp Speed is mine and I'm proud of it!" Biden: "I renamed it "Project NextGen", so there!"

    Trump: "I was the first to sign off on $8 Trillion in one single term!" Biden: "So what? I'm doing that too!"

    Trump: "Take the guns first, ban bump stocks, raise the age to 21!" Biden: "I'm actually good with that."

    Trump: "We need to THROW Massie OUT of the Republican Party!" Biden: "No complaints there either."

    Trump: "I endorsed Mike Johnson (R) as Speaker!" Biden: [reads teleprompter] He's the one who sided with us, right?"


    Special announcement: Sorry folks, no discussion of the printing of money, IRS, eVerify and/or other National ID, DHS & NGO funding, or other topics will be heard.


    Trump: "Round of golf after this?" Biden: "My legs are too feeble... meet at Hillary's for drinks?"



    @Swordsmyth
    Last edited by PAF; 05-17-2024 at 08:29 PM.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  7. #6
    Get ready to see Trump supporters say Trump will be dropping massive bombshells and haymakers during this debate. Why do I get the feeling neither of those things are going to happen?

  8. #7
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  9. #8
    Trump perspective: "One of them, five of them, doesn't matter..."


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B56wGAt1gc

    Unfortunately for Trump, there won't be an audience to entertain, just a panel from The Ministry of Truth.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  11. #9
    Kennedy just said Biden and Trump are colluding to exclude him from the debates. They probably are.

  12. #10
    https://twitter.com/3YearLetterman/s...26682133123381
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Kennedy just said Biden and Trump are colluding to exclude him from the debates. They probably are.
    They don't want any different perspectives, not to mention that Biden probably can't keep two candidates straight in his mind.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Kennedy just said Biden and Trump are colluding to exclude him from the debates. They probably are.
    Maybe if he knew what he was doing (he does not), he'd already be polling 15% and on his way to being on enough ballots to win 270 electorals.

    If he meets this threshold, he belongs there. If he doesn't, he doesn't.

    Compare. In 1992, when Ross Perot was on the debate stage, in many polls he was BEATING BOTH Bush and Clinton.
    AND he was on ALL state ballots.
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    Maybe if he knew what he was doing (he does not), he'd already be polling 15% and on his way to being on enough ballots to win 270 electorals.

    If he meets this threshold, he belongs there. If he doesn't, he doesn't.

    Compare. In 1992, when Ross Perot was on the debate stage, in many polls he was BEATING BOTH Bush and Clinton.
    AND he was on ALL state ballots.
    Actually Kennedy has already polled 15 or more in way more than 4 national polls, which was the criteria that the commission for presidential debates used. I guess the commission is over now though. Kennedy's running mate is paying the bills to get him on all the battles with all the Google money she got in the divorce. Good chance they pull it off.

    I would not be surprised one bit if the Trump and Biden campaigns or even Trump and Biden personally conspired to bypass the commission to keep Kennnedy out.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Actually Kennedy has already polled 15 or more in way more than 4 national polls, which was the criteria that the commission for presidential debates used. I guess the commission is over now though. Kennedy's running mate is paying the bills to get him on all the battles with all the Google money she got in the divorce. Good chance they pull it off.

    I would not be surprised one bit if the Trump and Biden campaigns or even Trump and Biden personally conspired to bypass the commission to keep Kennnedy out.
    Yeah, I think Kennedy will probably be in at least one debate, and when CNN says 15% I didn't mean to imply that he hasn't attained that, but that historically there is no reason to be so upset if you can't win. He needs to get on more ballots. Right now, he's barely comparing to Anderson in 1980. Anderson's high was 26% but then downhill...

    The Commission and CNN maintain the candidate must have an arithmetic chance of winning the Electoral College:
    https://debates.org/2024/05/01/cpd-statement/index.html

    Kennedy has a lot of work to do. I recall Texas State was going to have him attend, but that's also axed, by the Uniparty.
    https://www.kens5.com/article/news/l...3-113a142f1833
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    Yeah, I think Kennedy will probably be in at least one debate...
    Not with either Biden or Trump. Zero chance.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Not with either Biden or Trump. Zero chance.
    I tend to agree. Neither will let it happen.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Not with either Biden or Trump. Zero chance.
    If he meets the requirements then it's up to them if they want to refuse to attend...
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    If he meets the requirements then it's up to them if they want to refuse to attend...
    And if both of them have already stipulated that they won't come if there's a third candidate on stage, then RFKJr can't any more meet the requirements than you can. No matter what happens.

    Do you really think they didn't?

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    If he meets the requirements then it's up to them if they want to refuse to attend...
    They move the goal posts. If you look at the wording of the (former?) commission on presidential debate, it has ambiguous wording like "recognized" or "accepted" national polls. They have for at least the last 20 years had one college professor who decides which poll are acceptable.

    Both already are refusing if RFK is there.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    And if both of them have already stipulated that they won't come if there's a third candidate on stage, then RFKJr can't any more meet the requirements than you can. No matter what happens.

    Do you really think they didn't?
    I’m sure they did, but it would be fun to include him anyway just to showcase the pettiness of Biden and Trump.

    EDIT: Just saw this article. Trump apparently would be open to having RFK on stage.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...p/73712743007/
    Last edited by A. Havnes; 05-24-2024 at 06:19 PM. Reason: Never mind, Trump says he’d debate Kennedy.

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    And if both of them have already stipulated that they won't come if there's a third candidate on stage, then RFKJr can't any more meet the requirements than you can. No matter what happens.

    Do you really think they didn't?
    IF and WHEN RFK Jr. meets the requirements, and both of them decline to attend, it will be true.
    Like when Carter refused to attend the first debate, and Anderson debated Reagan alone.

    I'm only saying he has a lot of work to do before he meets the requirements. He can't expect to be admitted without that.
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    IF and WHEN RFK Jr. meets the requirements, and both of them decline to attend, it will be true.
    Like when Carter refused to attend the first debate, and Anderson debated Reagan alone.
    The League of Women Voters ran the debates back then. They actually had standards to maintain, and a good reputation to live up to. They therefore got squeezed out of the business before the twentieth century was even over.

    If and when he meets the requirements. Are you asleep? What are the requirements to be on primary ballots in most states? You have to be Biden or Trump. We're talking about candidates not being able to get on Democratic primary ballots unless their name is Biden. That's literally the only requirement. And you think there's some kind of immutable gold standard past which nobody can keep you out of a debate?

  26. #23
    When the people no longer feel the need or the desire to have debates, then we will be getting somewhere. Otherwise, it's just a dog and pony show, which only demonstrates your consent, that others have influence and power over you. They are meant to take away your individuality, the desire to work locally and within your community, and to transfer power and control as far away from you as they can.

    What does any politician know that you need to hear in a "debate", that you [and the offspring that you raise] shouldn't know already?
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  27. #24

    Trump vs Biden debate, 2024

    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst



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  29. #25
    I hope Trump doesn't back down on the drug test requirement.

  30. #26
    Biden is going to receive the biggest pharmaceutical cocktail ever.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    Biden is going to receive the biggest pharmaceutical cocktail ever.
    Yeah, and if he doesn't live through it then Kamela becomes not only President but the nominee
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  32. #28
    I have suspicions on the expedited debates scheduling. Putting aside all Biden's demands for now, but of course those also are telling and unreasonable.

    1) Democrats want enough time for the first debate (ahead of conventions for the first time ever) to be "forgotten", as it is so early, even before the apex of summer, that months will go by, this means they want it to go down the memory hole when Biden performs poorly.
    2) The fact that one debate is before the DNC in August makes it more likely that Biden really IS the candidate, although there's still a chance he won't be, and still a chance Harris won't be VP.
    3) This one's the biggest - lining up for enough time to make sure early voting can be rigged, as no more challenging appearances like having to answer questions, there will be mid-September to Election Day for Democrats to organize a big clandestine ballot operation.
    4) October Surprise already planned. No debates all month (never seen this). Pandemic? Terrorism? War?
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch

  33. #29
    Joe Biden Agrees To Debate Trump | Part Of The Problem 1125
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1hWhmks6yo
    {Dave Smith | 23 May 2024}

    On this episode of Part Of The Problem, we start off on the ICC leveling charges against Benjamin Netanyahu. We then hear about the upcoming debates and the strange stipulations around it.


  34. #30

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