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Thread: RFK Jr. endorses abortion up to birth

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Explain to me why I personally should pay for other peoples Plan B, contraception and abortion, when I did not participate, nor was it was my decision to participate, in the sexual act?
    Some in the GOP are trying to eliminate that.

    This was just yesterday.

    Missouri Gov. Parson Signs Bill Banning Taxpayer Funds to Abortion Providers

    You won't see Janet Mills or Gavin Newsom or Mara Healy signing a bill like that.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    I believe a life exception must be written into the law the same way that self defense is written into the law as a defense against a murder charge. Would you be okay with leaving self defense totally to prosecutorial discretion? I like the two week grace period after a woman becomes aware, but I have heard of women who for whatever reason didn't know they were pregnant until they were about to deliver.
    First point... I guess you're right about the self-defense exception being written into the law as a valid defense, but people still get prosecuted and have to PROVE self-defense. It's usually up to prosecutorial discretion as to whether they would bring the case. I'd be opposed to preventing the exception defense, in any case. It'd probably be up to each state as to whether they need to include these exceptions as a valid defense in the law.

    Second point... This would be where prosecutorial discretion would come into play. There are definitely edge cases. And if a jury buys that defense, then so be it. I just don't want women and doctors doing this with impunity. They need to know they risk prosecution if a reasonable jury deems they should have known. I had an uncle who was born at 5 months in my grandmother's bathroom. She swears that she didn't know she was pregnant, but it may have been that she was hiding it from my grandfather because they already had 5 kids and were struggling. He lived a good life.

    I do see that my proposal would create an incentive for women to delay going to get tested if they suspect they're pregnant. Like I tried to say before - still not perfect, but nothing is.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Some in the GOP are trying to eliminate that.

    This was just yesterday.

    Missouri Gov. Parson Signs Bill Banning Taxpayer Funds to Abortion Providers

    You won't see Janet Mills or Gavin Newsom or Mara Healy signing a bill like that.

    Well, it's a start!
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  6. #34
    Prosecutorial discretion pretty much went out the window the first time a DA campaigned for reelection on his conviction rate. And the last vestiges of it disappeared when governments started offering corporations prisoners for slave labor, which is has quietly grown into a huge racket.

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    I always say that if you've come to your conclusion on this topic easily, you haven't thought about it long enough.
    I thought about this very deeply for about 10 years. I had all sorts of other deep thinkers guiding my deep thought on it and I came to a rooted-in-deep-thought conclusion on it.

    Then I saw my first picture of a tiny severed human arm sitting next to a US quarter for scale, and I realized that long thought's primary purpose is to defeat first principles.

    If you write enough and think enough you can make the US constitution support gun control.
    If you write and think enough you can make the Bible support homosexuality.

    I'm all about modifying or tossing first principles - but there have to be first principles intact for any system of thought to work. If your first principles are consistent then they fit like puzzle pieces neatly in any other argument. If they're not consistent or if you violate them when you've "thought about it long enough" then your system of thought is a mess that, as acptulsa already pointed out, is intentionally caused to lead us to a particular political outcome.

    And one of the first principles I'm operating under is the idea that all life is special and human life is more special than any other life. If that's not a first principle then property rights don't work. Liberty doesn't work.

    To all the women: sorry not sorry. We had a system in place that was based on this idea for millennia, wherein we generally acknowledged your physical inferiority but also acknowledged the necessity of the physically superior to protect you preferentially and at great cost. Your lives used to be assumed to be of greater value than those of men.

    Your feminazi grandmothers trashed that system and put you in a situation where you don't get that veneration and don't get to expect that protection anymore. And to make up for not being protected by society, you decided killing your offspring was some kind of consolation prize. There was only one group of people who ever enjoyed greater protections than you, and killing them was your answer.

    For some inscrutable reason, more men than women are willing at this point to go back to the old deal. But women are the ones who broke it, and they're going to need to overtly agree to go back to it in order for it to work.

    Part of that agreement involves not killing our offspring.

    Like everything else that happens in a family, this transcends law. Passing laws isn't going to fix this. But men who support laws that allow - or force - women to continue to break the deal, aren't helping the situation.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Prosecutorial discretion pretty much went out the window the first time a DA campaigned for reelection on his conviction rate. And the last vestiges of it disappeared when governments started offering corporations prisoners for slave labor, which is has quietly grown into a huge racket.
    Well, that's not true. We all know there's a $#@! ton of selective prosecution going on in the country! That's the flip-side of prosecutorial discretion.

    I suspect if we chose to adjudicate abortion cases under this theory, then liberal districts would ignore them and conservative districts would pursue them. From a libertarian perspective, this brings the justice much closer to the local level based on what the local juries and voting bases would accept.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Well, that's not true. We all know there's a $#@! ton of selective prosecution going on in the country! That's the flip-side of prosecutorial discretion.

    I suspect if we chose to adjudicate abortion cases under this theory, then liberal districts would ignore them and conservative districts would pursue them. From a libertarian perspective, this brings the justice much closer to the local level based on what the local juries and voting bases would accept.
    So then, you agree with:

    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Which reenforces my opinion that:

    RFK Jr.: "We shouldn't have government involved." when he referenced fed or state.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    So then, you agree with:
    ?? No. The justice system would still get involved to adjudicate the matter.

    Just like any murder, the government gets involved. (Well, unless your last name is Clinton)

    Then, it's up to the prosecutor to decide if they can win a case and the jury to agree. I don't agree that the government should not get involved in murder cases. And neither does RFK. Heck, he wants them to get MORE involved in injury cases, much less murder! But he's making an exception here, because he fails to see it as the extinguishing of a human life.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    ?? No. The justice system would still get involved to adjudicate the matter.

    Just like any murder, the government gets involved. (Well, unless your last name is Clinton)

    Then, it's up to the prosecutor to decide if they can win a case and the jury to agree. I don't agree that the government should not get involved in murder cases. And neither does RFK. Heck, he wants them to get MORE involved in injury cases, much less murder! But he's making an exception here, because he fails to see it as the extinguishing of a human life.

    I don't know what is inside RFK Jr.'s mind. I agree with the points that you are making concerning the topic of murder. But I also believe that fed and state should not be involved for reasons that I stated previously. I don't know if you listened to everything "in context" or not, and how I believe he is trying to appeal to both sides of the isle without alienating one side or the other, but here it is starting at the 1:04:00 mark:


    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    1:04:00

    ____________

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    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    In the same sentence he said "Leave it to the states" and then he said 'Leave it to the woman...don't have the government involved"...but the states are government. I don't think he thought that one through.
    ...
    Like Ron Paul, many libertarians and those opposed to the Covid vax, I was intrigued when RFK Jr came out to run for POTUS. But then he started talking. And then he started contradicting himself, over and over again. He shoots from the hip, and tries to play to his audience, which is the political thing to do, but you can't contradict what you said earlier. It's like he hasn't thought anything through too deeply. Very reminiscent of Trump.
    Last edited by Brian4Liberty; 05-10-2024 at 10:29 AM.
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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Like Ron Paul, many libertarians and those opposed to the Covid vax, I was intrigued when RFK Jr came out to run for POTUS. But then he started talking. And then he started contradicting himself, over and over again. He shoots from the hip, and tries to play to his audience, which is the political thing to do, but you can't contradict what you said earlier. It's like he hasn't thought any through too deeply. Very reminiscent of Trump.
    Important issues and topics are raised that should be thought out and discussed, and support of those areas where one may agree. But that does not equate to a vote. That way you'll never be let down, or responsible if/when they happen to change their position.

    I believe it was Tom Massie who said something to the effect that disobedience(?) was more effective than voting ;-)
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  15. #42
    I watched the video and I still have no idea what his position is. I have to agree that it seems like he is trying not to alienate either side. Isn't he a Catholic like his father and uncle?

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    I watched the video and I still have no idea what his position is. I have to agree that it seems like he is trying not to alienate either side. Isn't he a Catholic like his father and uncle?
    A little but not really. More New-Agey. Definitely not like his father and uncle.
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  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Not to mention, that @Swordsmyth won't mention, that his savior Trump has signed more money-funding into Family Planning than Obama or any other president.

    And the mere mention of defunding anything, well, that raises the hair on his skin and puts him into a tizzy.

    @CaptUSA
    Veto proof budget bills, that's on Congress.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Some in the GOP are trying to eliminate that.

    This was just yesterday.

    Missouri Gov. Parson Signs Bill Banning Taxpayer Funds to Abortion Providers

    You won't see Janet Mills or Gavin Newsom or Mara Healy signing a bill like that.
    Or RFK.
    He wants universal healthcare and he will agree with the left that abortions are healthcare.
    He only wants to get government out of the way of the child sacrifice cult.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  19. #46
    But what about after birth?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
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    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  20. #47
    So, here he is, walking back his own comments, and promising a massive new government spending program to support mothers.


    https://twitter.com/RobertKennedyJr/...21919951704481

    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    But what about after birth?
    What about it?
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    So, here he is, walking back his own comments, and promising a massive new government spending program to support mothers.


    https://twitter.com/RobertKennedyJr/...21919951704481


    Full tweet:



    Robert F. Kennedy Jr
    @robertKennedyJr

    Abortion has been a notoriously divisive issue in America, but actually I see an emerging consensus — abortion should be legal up until a certain number of weeks, and restricted thereafter. Even in the reddest of red states, voters reject total abortion bans. And on the other end, almost no one supports gruesome third-trimester abortions except to save the life of the mother.

    I've been a medical freedom advocate for my entire career and have fought for bodily autonomy, and I trust women’s maternal instincts. What if the baby has some fatal condition that ensures it will survive just hours or days after birth in intense suffering? Can we, should we, legislate such painful decisions and take them away from the mother? Is a bureaucrat or judge better equipped than the baby’s own mother to decide?

    Cases like this are why I am leery of inserting the government into abortion. I had been assuming that virtually all late-term abortions were such cases, but I’ve learned that my assumption was wrong. Sometimes, women abort healthy, viable late-term fetuses. These cases of purely “elective” late-term abortion are very upsetting. Once the baby is viable outside the womb, it should have rights and it deserves society’s protection.

    I learned this because I was willing to listen — to my family, advisors, supporters, and others who shared their perspectives. My promise to myself and to America is that I will continue to listen and incorporate what I learn into my decisions.

    I support the emerging consensus that abortion should be unrestricted up until a certain point. I believe that point should be when the baby is viable outside the womb. Therefore I would allow appropriate restrictions on abortion in the final months of pregnancy, just as Roe v. Wade did.

    That is the principle that will guide my actions as President, whether implemented by Congress, the states, or in court. It is the right policy for our country. It is the will of the people.

    But there is more to it than that. We should be looking at why there are so many abortions in the first place. The biggest reason according to studies is affordability. Almost three-quarters of women cite economic reasons to explain why they chose to abort a pregnancy. So, we have developed a policy that we call “More Choices, More Life.” We can reduce abortion across the board by supporting motherhood, supporting parents, and supporting families. Soon we’ll unveil our plan for universally affordable child care, which will cap child care expenses at 10% for most families. And we will support women in need so that abortion isn’t their only choice.

    10:34 PM · May 10, 2024
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Or RFK.
    He wants universal healthcare and he will agree with the left that abortions are healthcare.
    He only wants to get government out of the way of the child sacrifice cult.
    That's not what he says. Now, politicians lie. If we didn't know that before Trump tweeted everything on both sides of every fence in 2016, we know it now. But I still think he knows more about what's going on in his own head than you do.

    I respect people who are capable of learning and evolving. Except when their views and actions "evolve" into RINOcon crap, like Trump's did.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 05-11-2024 at 06:46 AM.

  25. #51
    Full tweet:


    [INDENT]
    Robert F. Kennedy Jr

    What if the baby has some fatal condition that ensures it will survive just hours or days after birth in intense suffering? Can we, should we, legislate such painful decisions and take them away from the mother? Is a bureaucrat or judge better equipped than the baby’s own mother to decide?

    Cases like this are why I am leery of inserting the government into abortion
    The baby is alive, it is life. Just because it is not healthy or won't survive long doesn't justify murder. Do everything possible to save it's life. Yes take the decision away from the mother, they are hormonal, and mental wrecks during pregnancy. They do not think rationally. Protecting life is a legitimate function of government.

    His elaborated position on this is spineless political double speak.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

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  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    His elaborated position on this is spineless political double speak.
    Yes he is most definitely trying hard to stay on the fence on this issue. No, he doesn't look very comfortable up there.

  27. #53
    https://twitter.com/joma_gc/status/1789066356320563450

  28. #54
    I have a lot of problems with abortion, which includes things like, if someone lets says causes a car accident, and as a result a pregnant woman loses their child, all of a sudden it is now manslaughter, but if that woman elected to have an abortion the same day, it is not murder. That inconsistency in particular bothers me quite a lot. It is the definition of a double standard.
    A savage barbaric tribal society where thugs parade the streets and illegally assault and murder innocent civilians, yeah that is the alternative to having police. Oh wait, that is the police

    We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.
    - Edward R. Murrow

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  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    That's not what he says. Now, politicians lie. If we didn't know that before Trump tweeted everything on both sides of every fence in 2016, we know it now. But I still think he knows more about what's going on in his own head than you do.

    I respect people who are capable of learning and evolving. Except when their views and actions "evolve" into RINOcon crap, like Trump's did.
    Robert Kennedy Jr.

    Do you support a single-payer healthcare system?

    Yes, this system guarantees healthcare for everyone


    https://www.isidewith.com/candidates...ies/healthcare
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Robert Kennedy Jr.

    Do you support a single-payer healthcare system?

    Yes, this system guarantees healthcare for everyone


    https://www.isidewith.com/candidates...ies/healthcare
    Why do you offer links as "proof" to sites which don't tell you when the candidates said things, don't offer you proof, and don't give you links to their sources so you can check to see if something was taken out of context? Do you just like to be propagandized? Do you just like to be fooled?



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Why do you offer links as "proof" to sites which don't tell you when the candidates said things, don't offer you proof, and don't give you links to their sources so you can check to see if something was taken out of context? Do you just like to be propagandized? Do you just like to be fooled?
    Why do you pretend it doesn't source its information when it does?

    https://www.isidewith.com/candidates...yer-healthcare

    All you had to do was click on a link under the answer, but I guess you didn't want to know.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Why do you pretend it doesn't source its information when it does?

    https://www.isidewith.com/candidates...yer-healthcare

    All you had to do was click on a link under the answer, but I guess you didn't want to know.
    Your link provides only this:

    Reference: “In the conversation last month with Ball and her cohost Saagar Enjeti, Ball asked Kennedy if he would support “universal health ...” ‐jacobin.com
    I pasted that in the search engine Brave and all it could find by way of confirmation was a link to this:

    https://jacobin.com/2023/06/rfk-jr-m...trist-democrat

    Populist? RFK Jr Doesn’t Even Support Medicare for All.
    BY
    BEN BURGIS
    Many commentators see the eccentric Robert F. Kennedy Jr as an “antiestablishment” alternative to Biden. But he doesn’t even support single-payer health care, the brightest line dividing the centrist Democratic Party from its base.


    Robert F. Kennedy, Jr visits The Faulkner Focus at Fox News Channel Studios on June 2, 2023 in New York City. (Jamie McCarthy / Getty Images)

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    No elected president has been denied his party’s nomination for a second term since Franklin Pierce in 1856. The last time one even faced a serious primary opponent was 1992, when Pat Buchanan challenged George H. W. Bush for the Republican nomination. And the last time it happened on the Democratic side was when Ted Kennedy ran against Jimmy Carter in 1980.

    But according to recent polling, only 37 percent of Democrats say they want Joe Biden to seek a second term. His age has a lot to do with that. But so does the state of the country.

    Biden came into office surrounded by credulous journalists hailing him as a second FDR. He’s utterly failed to live up to the hype. If anything, the recently concluded debt ceiling negotiations made him look more like a second Bill Clinton — haggling with Republicans about exactly how much to shrink the welfare state. Meanwhile, the United States is becoming ever more deeply involved in a potentially catastrophic war between Russia and Ukraine.

    All of this creates an opening for a primary challenger. Ted Kennedy’s nephew, Robert F. Kennedy Jr, has stepped in to fill that niche. He’s not the only Democrat running against Biden — Marianne Williamson is too — but in most polls I’ve seen, Kennedy is well ahead of her. And it’s not hard to see why he might emerge as Biden’s most prominent challenger. On the one hand, he comes from a lineage of Democratic Party royalty. On the other hand, he’s an edgy antiestablishment “populist.”

    Or at least that’s how he’s been widely portrayed — both by commentators who are repulsed by Kennedy’s proclivity for anti-vaccine conspiracy theories and by those who find his criticisms of the Biden administration compelling. But the populism label is false advertising. On key issues from Israel/Palestine to Medicare for All, RFK Jr’s politics are a thousand miles away from his branding.

    A Bold Truth-Teller?
    Is Kennedy really a tribune of ordinary people screwed over by powerful interests? If so, it might be surprising that so many of his biggest fans are on the Right. He recently hung out on Twitter Spaces with union-busting billionaire Elon Musk, and last month a paean of praise for Kennedy appeared in the conservative journal National Review.

    The author of the National Review piece, Matthew Scully, calls Kennedy “courageous of heart.” He writes that the mainstream media is hostile to the Kennedy campaign because of RFK Jr’s “inability to tolerate the intellectual dishonesty he finds in his antagonists.” He says that Kennedy would still be in liberals’ good graces “if only he didn’t have so much integrity.”

    Much of this is about Kennedy’s stance on COVID-19. It’s probably true that he wouldn’t be such a pariah if he weren’t a “skeptic” about vaccines and masking — although the claim that his positions on these issues display honesty and integrity is far more dubious. For example, Kennedy has claimed that there are “mountainous archives of peer-reviewed science supporting the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.” But meta–analyses of the research so far show exactly the opposite. Nathan Robinson and Lily Sánchez look at this and a number of other examples in a long article on Kennedy’s COVID conspiracism and conclude that “he’s telling people lies that will endanger their health.”

    That would be bad enough if it were his only flaw. Part of the job of a president, after all, is to provide leadership during public health emergencies. But COVID policy isn’t likely to loom as large in the 2024 election, as some voters might care less about whether Kennedy thought they should get vaccinated two years ago than where he stands on health care policy in general right now.

    Is Kennedy prepared to pick up where Bernie Sanders left off in 2020, continuing the fight to put an end to the parasitical private insurance industry and institute Medicare for All?

    Antiestablishment or Just Eccentric?
    In a recent interview with left-wing journalist Krystal Ball, Kennedy was asked whether, given the hostility to the pharmaceutical companies he often expresses while talking about vaccines, he’d be willing to support a “public option” for pharmaceuticals or maybe even the outright nationalization of the industry. He immediately dismissed this, saying, “Oh, I don’t think that’s the right thing,” and switching the subject to how to insulate regulatory agencies from the industry’s influence. He didn’t even pause to explain why it wouldn’t be the right thing. Apparently, he finds the suggestion too outlandish to even consider.

    It’s worth noting that Kennedy’s hostility to even providing a public option to compete with privately manufactured medicine puts him to the right of California governor Gavin Newsom, a thoroughly mainstream Democrat who recently announced that California is going to start manufacturing its own insulin later this year.

    The California news is one small indication of the way health care policy debates have shifted in the last decade and a half. I can remember watching then president Barack Obama on TV when he first rolled out the Affordable Care Act (the ACA, otherwise known as “Obamacare”) in 2009. Obama said that if the United States was starting its health care system over from scratch, he would prefer a “single-payer” system — what would later became known as Medicare for All. But because we weren’t “starting from scratch,” what Obama actually proposed was a market-based patchwork of regulations.

    He never actually explained why the fact that we weren’t “starting from scratch” meant that we can’t switch to single-payer health care now. And it says a lot about the dismal political landscape of 2009 that hardly anyone at the time challenged him on that point.
    You're using a bunch of self-described Jacobins whining that he won't nationalize health care to imply he will? Here we have the right wing mainstream media using the left wing mainstream media as proof, even though they're making the opposite claim, and counting on conservatives to either not check for themselves or to not understand what they read if they do. And you bit, hook line and sinker.

    Heckuva source you found there, Brownie.

    Now. Who was it that didn't want to know?
    Last edited by acptulsa; 05-12-2024 at 06:25 AM.

  34. #59
    What was Trump's big selling point? He makes liberal heads explode? Well who's doing that now?

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Your link provides only this:



    I pasted that in the search engine Brave and all it could find by way of confirmation was a link to this:

    https://jacobin.com/2023/06/rfk-jr-m...trist-democrat



    You're using a bunch of self-described Jacobins whining that he won't nationalize health care to imply he will? Here we have the right wing mainstream media using the left wing mainstream media as proof, even though they're making the opposite claim, and counting on conservatives to either not check for themselves or to not understand what they read if they do. And you bit, hook line and sinker.

    Heckuva source you found there, Brownie.

    Now. Who was it that didn't want to know?
    From the article:

    Kennedy shifted the goalposts in a more moderate direction, redefining “single-payer” health care to mean something more like the Obama/Biden “public option” proposal. “I would say,” he said, “[that] my highest ambition would be to have a single-payer program . . . where people who want to have private programs can go ahead and do that, but to have a single program that is available to everybody.”
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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