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Thread: Kristi Noem is a dog (and goat) killer

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    A good hunting dog will not kill your livestock. The dog was a retriever, you only need one and it doesn't kill the birds. You shoot the bird and the dog gets the dead bird and brings it to you. You typically wear camo for that if it really matters.


    Not everyone has been around rural life and these things can seem cruel to you but normal to a person who has, it's been a while for me. But what Noem described doing is normal behavior in that lifestyle.

    I'm not defending her, I don't really know much about her.
    Hard disagree. I'd point you to Susano's post, but I feel like throwing in my two cents, so here goes.

    I've been rural my entire life and lived on and around farms the entire time and what you're describing is absolutely not normal. The only people I know who would do such a thing are the guys on the farm about a mile from where I am, and they've had the cops called on them multiple times for animal cruelty. I won't go into details, but they bought dogs specifically to kill their overbred, out-of-control populations among other things. Those are the people I know who would do this kind of thing.

    Noem's dog clearly had a high prey drive, which means she had a few options:

    1. Train the dog to control its prey drive and perform the job she wants it to do. It was only a year old, so still quite malleable.
    2. Rehome the dog or give it to a rescue. A purebred pointer would've certainly been adoptable, even if only as a pet.
    3. Keep at as a pet, not a hunting dog.
    4. Blow its brains out and then kill off any other animals that annoy you.

    Prey drives can be hard to control. I've had collies who, strangely, couldn't be trusted around my geese but were fine with my goats, for example. I also have a mini dachshund who, until very recently, couldn't be trusted around cats at all. I managed to not kill them, by the way.

    The point is, if you really can't train them out of their drive, then what most people do is simply keep them as pets or rehome them as pets, letting the new owners know that the dog can't be trusted around smaller animals.

    Instead, this what seems to be what happened with Noem:

    1. Got a dog she didn't like.
    2. Didn't train it.
    3. Took it hunting, expecting that it would just do what the other dogs on the hunt would do, no training required.
    4. It (unsurprisingly) didn't and got super excited around pheasants. Prey drive activated!
    5. Noem stopped to chat with a friend and the dog got out of the truck, somehow. Was the window rolled down? Was she keeping it in the truck bed? Did she let it out because she's a moron? Anyway, not differentiating between chickens and pheasants (untrained again), it went on a killing spree.
    6. Noem startled it by trying to grab it and it "turned to bite" her, but obviously didn't.
    7. Noem's out for blood and kills the dog. Her own prey drive is now activated.
    8. Decides she hates her uncastrated goat because it smells like hormonal male goat and does goat things, which happens to ruin her kids' clothes.
    9. Shoots it.
    10. Brag about it in a book.

    This is the ten-step plan no one should follow. Even people who have shot strays coming around their livestock feel really bad about it and don't go around talking about it like it makes them alphas. Cricket could've easily gone to a new home, especially as a purebred. She could've also made a great pet, and clearly her children loved the dog.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    A good hunting dog will not kill your livestock. The dog was a retriever, you only need one and it doesn't kill the birds. You shoot the bird and the dog gets the dead bird and brings it to you. You typically wear camo for that if it really matters.
    That sounds reasonable for an actual hunter and it's how I’ve always seen it depicted on the screen and in books - but - the story says she took the dog on a hunt so it could learn from the other dogs. Instead it acted nuts and ruined the whole hunt, spoiling her fun. Does not sound like she took the dog's training very seriously. I suppose training an animal is less fun than shooting them.

    I think she's a poser and a show-off. If Trump picked her as his VP she’d be worse than Pence - if that is even possible! - and it would make me seriously doubt Trump’s ability to ever be even a half-way decent president.
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    "When I was growing up, my dad would always gather our family together and we would pray for Israel."

    Ensuring the Security of God’s Chosen People
    By: Governor Kristi Noem
    https://news.sd.gov/news?id=news_kb_...b10d46624bcbd5
    March 8, 2024
    She’s part of a cult, too. This is crazy talk.

    Quote Originally Posted by A. Havnes View Post
    1. Got a dog she didn't like.
    2. Didn't train it.
    3. Took it hunting, expecting that it would just do what the other dogs on the hunt would do, no training required.
    4. It (unsurprisingly) didn't and got super excited around pheasants. Prey drive activated!
    5. Noem stopped to chat with a friend and the dog got out of the truck, somehow. Was the window rolled down? Was she keeping it in the truck bed? Did she let it out because she's a moron? Anyway, not differentiating between chickens and pheasants (untrained again), it went on a killing spree.
    6. Noem startled it by trying to grab it and it "turned to bite" her, but obviously didn't.
    7. Noem's out for blood and kills the dog. Her own prey drive is now activated.
    8. Decides she hates her uncastrated goat because it smells like hormonal male goat and does goat things, which happens to ruin her kids' clothes.
    9. Shoots it.
    10. Brag about it in a book.
    This sounds accurate. My dog bit me once (not badly) - it was a case of displaced aggression and I wouldn't have dreamed of killing him for it (RIP - He lived to a ripe old age and was put to sleep at the vet's office). In the original Guardian story, it is implied that she spoke about this because she believes it proves she can ‘do anything “difficult, messy and ugly” if it simply needs to be done’... as if this is a great leadership quality.
    Last edited by Valli6; 04-28-2024 at 07:42 PM.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Not everyone has been around rural life and these things can seem cruel to you but normal to a person who has, it's been a while for me. But what Noem described doing is normal behavior in that lifestyle.
    It's been a half century since I've lived in "farm country", but I do remember it. Same resolution handed out to egg-sucking hounds, because once they've had a taste they're always going to go back and do it again. I even knew of a horse that was put down that way.



    I can't recall the last time I saw Hud aired. Cosby had a routine on it (but we're not allowed to mention Cosby any longer). Both of those are from a different time back in the sixties.
    Last edited by Voluntarist; 04-28-2024 at 08:34 PM.
    You have the right to remain silent. Anything you post to the internet can and will be used to humiliate you.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    She comes from hearty Zionist stock.

    "When I was growing up, my dad would always gather our family together and we would pray for Israel."

    Ensuring the Security of God’s Chosen People

    By: Governor Kristi Noem

    https://news.sd.gov/news?id=news_kb_...b10d46624bcbd5

    March 8, 2024
    SD = ZOG
    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it.

    ~comment at Zero Hedge

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by A. Havnes View Post
    Hard disagree. I'd point you to Susano's post, but I feel like throwing in my two cents, so here goes.

    I've been rural my entire life and lived on and around farms the entire time and what you're describing is absolutely not normal. The only people I know who would do such a thing are the guys on the farm about a mile from where I am, and they've had the cops called on them multiple times for animal cruelty. I won't go into details, but they bought dogs specifically to kill their overbred, out-of-control populations among other things. Those are the people I know who would do this kind of thing.

    Noem's dog clearly had a high prey drive, which means she had a few options:

    1. Train the dog to control its prey drive and perform the job she wants it to do. It was only a year old, so still quite malleable.
    2. Rehome the dog or give it to a rescue. A purebred pointer would've certainly been adoptable, even if only as a pet.
    3. Keep at as a pet, not a hunting dog.
    4. Blow its brains out and then kill off any other animals that annoy you.

    Prey drives can be hard to control. I've had collies who, strangely, couldn't be trusted around my geese but were fine with my goats, for example. I also have a mini dachshund who, until very recently, couldn't be trusted around cats at all. I managed to not kill them, by the way.

    The point is, if you really can't train them out of their drive, then what most people do is simply keep them as pets or rehome them as pets, letting the new owners know that the dog can't be trusted around smaller animals.

    Instead, this what seems to be what happened with Noem:

    1. Got a dog she didn't like.
    2. Didn't train it.
    3. Took it hunting, expecting that it would just do what the other dogs on the hunt would do, no training required.
    4. It (unsurprisingly) didn't and got super excited around pheasants. Prey drive activated!
    5. Noem stopped to chat with a friend and the dog got out of the truck, somehow. Was the window rolled down? Was she keeping it in the truck bed? Did she let it out because she's a moron? Anyway, not differentiating between chickens and pheasants (untrained again), it went on a killing spree.
    6. Noem startled it by trying to grab it and it "turned to bite" her, but obviously didn't.
    7. Noem's out for blood and kills the dog. Her own prey drive is now activated.
    8. Decides she hates her uncastrated goat because it smells like hormonal male goat and does goat things, which happens to ruin her kids' clothes.
    9. Shoots it.
    10. Brag about it in a book.

    This is the ten-step plan no one should follow. Even people who have shot strays coming around their livestock feel really bad about it and don't go around talking about it like it makes them alphas. Cricket could've easily gone to a new home, especially as a purebred. She could've also made a great pet, and clearly her children loved the dog.
    I'm a vegetarian, animal rights supporter and don't feel at home on this planet because of it. The way some farmers and, especially ranchers, treat animals, imo, is sociopathic. Then they put their kids in 4H where they raise and care for an animal and then murder their empathy when that animal gets auctioned for slaughter because "that's just how life is". $#@! that $#@!. I feel the same about researchers who experiment on animals. AFAIC, the world would be far better off with everyone of these $#@!ers fed to sharks.
    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it.

    ~comment at Zero Hedge

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    I had to look up dispensationalism. Yuck.

    Although dispensationalism is best known for its eschatological doctrines, at its heart is the distinction between Israel and the church. Every other distinctively dispensationalist doctrine rests on this idea. What this distinction means for dispensationalists is that there are two peoples of God. Israel is one of these and consists of the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The church is the other, and it consists of all those and only those (whether Jew or gentile) who are saved between the Day of Pentecost and the rapture. Part of the reason for the pre-tribulation rapture is to remove the church from earth so that God can begin dealing with national Israel again.

    https://www.ligonier.org/learn/artic...pensationalism

    Is this what Hagee is?
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    She comes from hearty Zionist stock.

    "When I was growing up, my dad would always gather our family together and we would pray for Israel."
    ...
    It's actually an interesting subject.

    More on dispensationalism:

    Dispensationalists use a literal interpretation of the Bible and believe that divine revelation unfolds throughout the Bible. They believe that there is a distinction between Israel and the Church, and that Christians are not bound by Mosaic law. They maintain beliefs in premillennialism, Christian Zionism, and a rapture of the Church that will happen before the Second Coming of Christ, generally seen as happening before a period of tribulation.
    ...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalism
    My loose definition of those who follow dispensationalism includes many people who don't even know what it is. Similar to how many Marxists of today have no clue that they are implementing Marxist ideology, techniques and tactics.

    The sentence quoted and bolded above summarizes it pretty well. It is Christianity that was introduced to rapture and end times teachings. Probably not coincidently, Zionism was introduced and evolved together with dispensationalism. Both originated in the 1800s. First there were the "Christians" like John Nelson Darby who initiated the dispensationalist movements, and many waves of subsequent teachers of the philosophy such as Hal Lindsey. At nearly the same time, Jewish intellectuals in Ukraine decided that Zionism (return to ancient Israel) was possible, and proto-Zionism originated.

    The rest, as they say, is history.

    Thus today, you have Christians like Noem who have been taught that Zionism and focus on Israel is part of their "Christian" religion, and part of their duty. It makes it pretty easy for Chuck Schumer and Mitch McConnell to get whatever they want, as long as they offer the Israel funding carrot to Noem or Mike Johnson.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  9. #37
    Did I say how much I hate this psycho bitch? She's a sadist.
    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it.

    ~comment at Zero Hedge

  10. #38
    @Brian4Liberty 100% right, ignorance preys on the proud.

    The Zionist Christian phenomenon is exclusive to the American South and Midwest, and small groups of Scots.
    Churches who know their history like Catholics and Anglicans and even Lutherans did not fall prey.

    It would eventually replace the Congregationalism of the 1800s. All the Revivals and Soul-Winnings...

    It was the beginning of the end of true American independence. High finance and all that...
    Last edited by Snowball; 04-29-2024 at 04:23 PM.
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    I had to look up dispensationalism. Yuck.

    Although dispensationalism is best known for its eschatological doctrines, at its heart is the distinction between Israel and the church. Every other distinctively dispensationalist doctrine rests on this idea. What this distinction means for dispensationalists is that there are two peoples of God. Israel is one of these and consists of the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The church is the other, and it consists of all those and only those (whether Jew or gentile) who are saved between the Day of Pentecost and the rapture. Part of the reason for the pre-tribulation rapture is to remove the church from earth so that God can begin dealing with national Israel again.

    https://www.ligonier.org/learn/artic...pensationalism

    Is this what Hagee is?
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    @Brian4Liberty 100% right, ignorance preys on the proud.

    The Zionist Christian phenomenon is exclusive to the American South and Midwest.
    Churches who know their history like Catholics and Anglicans and even Lutherans did not fall prey.
    Unfortunately, even members of those older churches fell prey. It's probably a very small percentage of any given religion that have an in depth knowledge of their own religion, let alone their specific denomination.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    It's actually an interesting subject.

    More on dispensationalism:



    My loose definition of those who follow dispensationalism includes many people who don't even know what it is. Similar to how many Marxists of today have no clue that they are implementing Marxist ideology, techniques and tactics.

    The sentence quoted and bolded above summarizes it pretty well. It is Christianity that was introduced to rapture and end times teachings. Probably not coincidently, Zionism was introduced and evolved together with dispensationalism. Both originated in the 1800s. First there were the "Christians" like John Nelson Darby who initiated the dispensationalist movements, and many waves of subsequent teachers of the philosophy such as Hal Lindsey. At nearly the same time, Jewish intellectuals in Ukraine decided that Zionism (return to ancient Israel) was possible, and proto-Zionism originated.

    The rest, as they say, is history.

    Thus today, you have Christians like Noem who have been taught that Zionism and focus on Israel is part of their "Christian" religion, and part of their duty. It makes it pretty easy for Chuck Schumer and Mitch McConnell to get whatever they want, as long as they offer the Israel funding carrot to Noem or Mike Johnson.
    I totally agree with your take on rapture types and useful idiot leftists being clueless about what it is they're advocating and following. I was familiar with the Scofield bible thing and how "Christian" Zionism came to be and didn't realize it went by this name, Dispensationalism. What is actually is British Israel and the British Baptists, from Oxford University, funded the Scofield bible and the guy who went around promoting it.

    British Israel: The Hidden Hand Behind the
    'The Kingdom of God on Earth' Deception


    British Israel Uses Christian Fundamentalist Evangelicals to Promote the "Kingdom of God on Earth' Scheme to Deliver Up A One World Society-Both Feudal and Fascist

    "British Israel" is a term used by the anonymous author of a brilliantly written 1970 book titled The Union Jack, to describe the manipulative efforts of elite British oligarchs (on behalf of the Rothchilds) to create a one world feudal society-controlled by British oligarchs of course-by first creating the state of Israel (via the British inspired 1917 Balfour Declaration), and then using Christian fundamentalist propagandists to promote the idea that Christ will physically return to Earth and will rule a "Kingdom of God on Earth' for a thousand years (the 'Millennium') from His earthly throne in....you guessed it... Jerusalem!

    The only problem is, that after million upon millions of deceived Christian fundamentalists passively give up their constitutional liberties, their country's sovereignty, and their freedom in the mistaken belief that the Apocalypse, Armageddon and End Times scenario is an inevitable 'prophecy' from God that must take place before we can be delivered into the Happy world of the New Millennium, they will finally discover that they've been delivered into a satanic, feudal slave society that will no longer tolerate any talk of Christ or Christianity- assuming they are still alive to enjoy the 'Kingdom of God on Earth'.

    The frontline promoters and propagandists of the 'Kingdom of God on Earth' scenario include all the well known TV evangelical personalities like British Israel promoter John Hagee, Benny Hinn, Jack Van Impe, Paul & Jan Crouch of the Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN), Jesse Duplantis, Kenneth Copeland, Pat Robertson, Billy Graham, Robert Shuller, Jerry Falwell,, Rod Parsley, Fred Price, Kim Clement,and Kenneth Hagin among others, but their ranks are also swollen with lesser known evangelical, pro-Israel (Ziionist) promoters who show up on UHF, cable TV, and radio stations every Sunday morning to pitch the soon-to-be-realized Great Tribulation and End Times "prophecies". A large percentage of these televangelist employ shouting, flamboyant movements, repeated phrases, and various histrionics to pump up the emotions of the audience in order to achieve a very specific technique of brainwashing called 'conversion'.

    https://educate-yourself.org/cn/brit...d10jul05.shtml
    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it.

    ~comment at Zero Hedge



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    @Brian4Liberty 100% right, ignorance preys on the proud.

    The Zionist Christian phenomenon is exclusive to the American South and Midwest, and small groups of Scots.
    Churches who know their history like Catholics and Anglicans and even Lutherans did not fall prey.

    It would eventually replace the Congregationalism of the 1800s. All the Revivals and Soul-Winnings...

    It was the beginning of the end of true American independence. High finance and all that...
    The other ones you mentioned went all in on Marxism. Christianity, as a religious movement, is dead. Peter Hitchens (British writer) said it died with WWI and I think that's about right.
    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it.

    ~comment at Zero Hedge

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Unfortunately, even members of those older churches fell prey. It's probably a very small percentage of any given religion that have an in depth knowledge of their own religion, let alone their specific denomination.
    The closest ones to the real deal are probably in the middle east, where it all began.
    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it.

    ~comment at Zero Hedge

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    I'm a vegetarian, animal rights supporter and don't feel at home on this planet because of it. The way some farmers and, especially ranchers, treat animals, imo, is sociopathic. Then they put their kids in 4H where they raise and care for an animal and then murder their empathy when that animal gets auctioned for slaughter because "that's just how life is". $#@! that $#@!. I feel the same about researchers who experiment on animals. AFAIC, the world would be far better off with everyone of these $#@!ers fed to sharks.
    I feel the same way. Never did 4H and my animals are basically all pets now. I couldn’t stand the slaughter of traditional farms so my livestock functions as non traditional pets.

    Out of curiosity, what do you think of cultured meat?

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by A. Havnes View Post
    Out of curiosity, what do you think of cultured meat?
    You mean like knowing which fork to use for the meat entre?
    You have the right to remain silent. Anything you post to the internet can and will be used to humiliate you.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by A. Havnes View Post
    I feel the same way. Never did 4H and my animals are basically all pets now. I couldn’t stand the slaughter of traditional farms so my livestock functions as non traditional pets.

    Out of curiosity, what do you think of cultured meat?
    I wouldn't touch cultured meat. Looks gross (like real hamburger) and that makes me sick just looking at it. That it's grown from cells from flesh is also disgusting. I already eat the occasional vegetarian meat substitutes like burgers and hot dogs but those are made from plants.
    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it.

    ~comment at Zero Hedge

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    The other ones you mentioned went all in on Marxism. Christianity, as a religious movement, is dead. Peter Hitchens (British writer) said it died with WWI and I think that's about right.
    The Eastern Orthodox Church is not dead.

    Outside of Iraq, Syria, and zio-occupied Ukraine anyway, thanks to zio-American slaughter.

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    Oh, jeez. I was thinking another Sarah Palin, though I dunno of SP is of that belief.

    Seriously, $#@! her. What a callous bitch this woman is. I already didn't like her but now I hope she gets stomped to death by a buffalo.
    Seriously? You think the story in the OP reflects poorly on her?
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  21. #48
    I highly doubt that Trump will pick Noem as VP. She went against him on the lockdowns, which he sees as his greatest legacy. He despised DeSantis for much milder departures from the Trump doctrine regarding COVID.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    The other ones you mentioned went all in on Marxism. Christianity, as a religious movement, is dead. Peter Hitchens (British writer) said it died with WWI and I think that's about right.
    It makes more sense to say Christianity, as a POLITICAL movement, died around WW I. That's when the Holy Roman Empire and other monarchies lost power.

    Concerning "Marxism" and Christianity, it's important not to conflate general welfare with Marxism. For example, worker's rights, childhood and elderly protections, and fair pricing is not Marxism. Would you consider groups like the Catholic Worker, or Liberation Theology to be Marxist? If so, that's wholly inappropriate.
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    I highly doubt that Trump will pick Noem as VP. She went against him on the lockdowns, which he sees as his greatest legacy. He despised DeSantis for much milder departures from the Trump doctrine regarding COVID.
    She's still on the very short list.
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by sparebulb View Post
    The Eastern Orthodox Church is not dead.

    Outside of Iraq, Syria, and zio-occupied Ukraine anyway, thanks to zio-American slaughter.
    I'd sort of put all Orthodox into one box, with the middle eastern (Syriac?) being in there.
    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it.

    ~comment at Zero Hedge

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    It makes more sense to say Christianity, as a POLITICAL movement, died around WW I. That's when the Holy Roman Empire and other monarchies lost power.

    Concerning "Marxism" and Christianity, it's important not to conflate general welfare with Marxism. For example, worker's rights, childhood and elderly protections, and fair pricing is not Marxism. Would you consider groups like the Catholic Worker, or Liberation Theology to be Marxist? If so, that's wholly inappropriate.
    I don't know about Catholic Worker (sounds commie) so can't speak to that. Catholic Human Development, most definitely. Liberation theology, yes, because it embraced Marxism as the solution to the abuses of what was going in central America. Well intentioned, perhaps, but one extreme to the other. More, though, I was referring to the embracing of wokeism, especially LGBTQIAP. And, they're all involved in the massive human trafficking engineered by the globalists and they're making off of it.
    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it.

    ~comment at Zero Hedge

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    It makes more sense to say Christianity, as a POLITICAL movement, died around WW I. That's when the Holy Roman Empire and other monarchies lost power.

    Concerning "Marxism" and Christianity, it's important not to conflate general welfare with Marxism. For example, worker's rights, childhood and elderly protections, and fair pricing is not Marxism. Would you consider groups like the Catholic Worker, or Liberation Theology to be Marxist? If so, that's wholly inappropriate.
    BTW, I don't believe Peter Hitchens was referring to it as the political movement. He said all of the churches (local) supported the war. I'd guess that the war was so devastating that it left people cynical (lost their faith) and their churches supporting it didn't help.
    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it.

    ~comment at Zero Hedge

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    I don't know about Catholic Worker (sounds commie) so can't speak to that. Catholic Human Development, most definitely. Liberation theology, yes, because it embraced Marxism as the solution to the abuses of what was going in central America. Well intentioned, perhaps, but one extreme to the other. More, though, I was referring to the embracing of wokeism, especially LGBTQIAP. And, they're all involved in the massive human trafficking engineered by the globalists and they're making off of it.
    Ugh. I was talking about the WW I era. I don't have the time to respond to everything else you wrote there. But I will say that the Latin American response to the CIA in the 20th and 21st centuries which at times took the form of what could be called "Marxism" was a political kickback against corporate and military subjugation. Film recommendation: Romero (1989), Book recommendation: People of God (Penny Lernoux).
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    Ugh. I was talking about the WW I era. I don't have the time to respond to everything else you wrote there. But I will say that the Latin American response to the CIA in the 20th and 21st centuries which at times took the form of what could be called "Marxism" was a political kickback against corporate and military subjugation. Film recommendation: Romero (1989), Book recommendation: People of God (Penny Lernoux).
    Okay but you responded my post referencing Peter Hitchens and WWI but brought up liberation theology which pertains, mostly, to Latin America.

    I agree with you about the rights of the people and the abuses of those rights causing the reaction which included liberation theology and, yes, a Marxist response. Conditions for the peasants of Russia were abominable, too, but Bolshevism was not the answer, which was the point I was driving at about liberation theology. Wherever severe oppression with poverty happens, it nearly always creates a communist backlash.
    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it.

    ~comment at Zero Hedge

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    Okay but you responded my post referencing Peter Hitchens and WWI but brought up liberation theology which pertains, mostly, to Latin America.

    I agree with you about the rights of the people and the abuses of those rights causing the reaction which included liberation theology and, yes, a Marxist response. Conditions for the peasants of Russia were abominable, too, but Bolshevism was not the answer, which was the point I was driving at about liberation theology. Wherever severe oppression with poverty happens, it nearly always creates a communist backlash.
    That's the case since the French Revolution, to choose a marker. Still, all these forms and manifestations and organizations are pretty much entirely unique to their own populations and the motives and constituency of those who comprised the revolutionaries. They are mostly all very different, with the overriding distinction being one that is entirely misrepresented or ignored by mainstream "history"... do you have any idea what that distinction is? Most people don't. It's the ones who were trigged and led by shoes and the ones who were not triggered or led by shoes. You know who shoes are.
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    That's the case since the French Revolution, to choose a marker. Still, all these forms and manifestations and organizations are pretty much entirely unique to their own populations and the motives and constituency of those who comprised the revolutionaries. They are mostly all very different, with the overriding distinction being one that is entirely misrepresented or ignored by mainstream "history"... do you have any idea what that distinction is? Most people don't. It's the ones who were trigged and led by shoes and the ones who were not triggered or led by shoes. You know who shoes are.
    Marx was a Jew so it makes no difference if if the ideology comes from Lenin or nuns and priests.
    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it.

    ~comment at Zero Hedge

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Noem is a dispensationalist, just like Mike Johnson. That's a no go from this day forward.
    Some people have to get all weird about it.
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    Marx was a Jew so it makes no difference if if the ideology comes from Lenin or nuns and priests.
    Catholic Social Teaching is not Marxism.
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    Catholic Social Teaching is not Marxism.
    Haven't paid much attention to Pope Francis, have you?

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