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Thread: Tucker Carlson @ Joe Rogan Experience

  1. #1

    Tucker Carlson @ Joe Rogan Experience

    Joe Rogan Experience #2138 - Tucker Carlson
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfTU5LA_kw8
    {PowerfulJRE | 19 April 2024}

    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 04-26-2024 at 01:05 PM. Reason: added header to video embed
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  3. #2
    A clip from the above:

    https://twitter.com/TheChiefNerd/sta...96239583441327

    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  4. #3

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    https://twitter.com/dbenner83/status...46955232600250


    [...]
    Do Good Guys Drop Nukes? | Part Of The Problem 1117
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r50SNwrvhLU
    {Dave Smith | 25 April 2024}

    On this episode of Part Of The Problem, Dave and Robbie take a look at the recent discussion between Tucker Carlson and Joe Rogan about the morality of nuclear weapons.

    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 04-26-2024 at 01:07 PM.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Abolish the CIA and FBI
    https://odysee.com/@mises:1/abolish-the-cia-and-fbi:9
    {Mises Media | 25 April 2024}

    On this episode of Radio Rothbard, Ryan McMaken and Tho Bishop discuss Tucker Carlson's recent interview with Joe Rogan, and why he's right about America's dangerous "security" agencies.

    Discussed on the Show:

    "The FBI and CIA Are Enemies of the American People" by Ryan McMaken: https://Mises.org/RR_183_A
    "Cowardice, Not Courage, Led House Republicans to Side with the Democrats" by Connor O'Keeffe: https://Mises.org/RR_183_B

    //
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 04-26-2024 at 01:06 PM.

  7. #6
    war is never "good" and rarely "moral". war is hell. The best outcome is to end the war as quickly as possible. If US didn't have nuke and instead did a land invasion of Japan, millions would die.

    If you gave a nuke to George Washington in 1776 and told him press this button and King Charles will die and you'll win the war and be free, he presses it, 100%. Because he believed his cause to be righteous. The US revolutionaries killed many fathers and sons and in turn many of them were killed. You want me to condemn Israel for going to war that Hamas has been inflicting on them for decades?
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  8. #7
    This is probably one of the most profound and important podcasts I've ever heard. You can find a transcript here:

    https://podscripts.co/podcasts/the-j...tucker-carlson

    Some interesting points: Tucker's journey from hating "conspiracy theorists" to giving credence to some of the most "extreme" conspiracy theories:



    Joe Rogan
    Starting point is 00:08:29
    And there's a ton of evidence that are under the ocean and under the ground. So like with that fact set, what do you conclude? When did you start having this opinion that they were spiritual and that they've always been here? When did this- Well, I didn't know anything about the topic until 2017. Was that after the New York Times piece?

    Tucker Carlson
    Starting point is 00:08:48
    No, it was before. It was before, and the things that I saw, I mean, I was, and am still, a very conventional person. I mean, I'm 54, I grew up in this country in California, which was like, every assumption about America I bought completely, just completely. And I thought that everyone who questioned those assumptions was bad. I just bought into the system completely without even thinking about it.

    Starting point is 00:09:13
    And I imagined that I was like some kind of free thinker and you know, I'm going against the grain. But like the core, my core assumptions were the, you know, the assumptions fed to me by the culture and the government and I didn't even realize it. But anyway, I'd never really thought about UFOs at all, and I'd been in journalism since I was a kid, so of course I'd run into a lot of people who had crazy views on a lot of different topics.

    Starting point is 00:09:34
    UFOs, 9-11, circumcision, you know, like every whack job in the world you run into when you're covering stuff. Fluoride. Fluoride, right? I just brushed with non-fluoride toothpaste this morning. Me too. Right, exactly.

    Starting point is 00:09:49
    Exactly, but probably unlike you, I didn't have any opinions like that. I was like, fluoride, come on. 9-11, shut up! UFOs, you're $#@!ing crazy. You know what I mean? I just had this reflexive, I'm ashamed of it, I'm not bragging about it, but um, but it was it was 2017 and really it was the Trump campaign

    Starting point is 00:10:10
    It wasn't that I was like so in love with Trump though I've always liked Trump because it was a hilarious and charming and all that but I wasn't like a Trump or anything but it was watching that campaign and Particularly his claim that they were spying on him. And I was like, really? The Intel services and federal law enforcement, FBI, do not spy on presidential campaigns.

    Starting point is 00:10:33
    That's so out of the realm. That's so crazy. That could never happen, because of course, there's no democracy in a system like that. And fundamentally, we're a democracy, an imperfect one. It kind of lumbers along, but like it's not fake. And then that turned out to be true,

    Starting point is 00:10:50
    and I knew it was true. And that just blew my mind. So I began a process still ongoing of reassessing a lot of other things, like okay, well if that was not true, what else is not true? And what else that they told me was a conspiracy theory might actually have some basis in fact. And then someone from, you know, a DOD employee

    Starting point is 00:11:11
    reached out to me and said, actually, there's a ton of evidence that this UFO thing is real. And really? And so I started doing segments on it when I worked at the TV channel. And there was like a lot of mockery, but I was like, I don't care I'm just gonna do this and then of course the second you start as you know better than anybody you start talking about something then People reach out to you and some of them are deranged but some of them aren't at all So I just started getting a lot of information from people and meeting with people mostly in private, you know, come to my house let's talk. And I decided on the basis of what they told me and then I talked to a lot of people about it,

    Starting point is 00:11:51
    that actually this is really a very heavy duty question. Actually, it's not just, it's not the little green men question, it's like a much bigger question. And it's really bad, it's really dark. And then I stopped. Then I was like, I don't wanna know anymore because it's not helping me at all as a person.

    Later Joe Rogan and Tucker Carlson enter into a debate about the morality of allowing an artificial sentient life for to replace humanity to the point of extinction. (People talk replacement theory with regards to immigration? This is replacement of the entire human race!) Note that Tucker Carlson in the course of the debate rejects evolution, not from a "that goes against the Bible" point of view but from a "I think continued existence of humanity is important" point of view and evolution should be rejected to the extent that it justifies the mass extinction of humanity. Tucker also, kind of sort of says the Unibomber was right to the point of (half jokingly?) endorsing nuking data centers.


    Joe Rogan
    Starting point is 00:26:52
    Well, you know, when we study primates, one of the things that we do, do you ever watch Chimp Nation on Netflix? No, I don't have a TV, but I like the sound of it. It's an amazing documentary on Netflix that details these embedded scientists in the Congo. And what's really fascinating about it is that this group of scientists or related scientists have been there for 20 plus years. So these chimps have become entirely accustomed to having human beings near them. So there's very specific rules. You stay within 20 yards of them. If they come closer, you back up. You never have food, ever. You can't bring any food there because they'll $#@! you up and just steal your food. If they find out you have food, you're in real trouble.

    Starting point is 00:27:41
    Oh yeah, they'll tear you apart. And they kill each other, so they'll definitely kill you. And so when they have done this, the chimps have become accustomed to them being there, and the chimps behave completely normally. The chimps see them as just an innocuous part of their environment. They're not food, and they're not enemy. They don't ever intrude. They don't try to challenge them.

    Starting point is 00:28:04
    They don't make eye contact. So they don't worry about the people at all. So they behave completely like chimps. And if I was an advanced species and I was studying people and I wanted the human beings to eventually kind of catch up, right, like you're introducing technology that they call donations crash vehicles Figure out what fiber optics are here you go. Check this out figure this out. Try to figure that out Maybe it'll take you decades. Maybe it'll take you more but you are Accelerating the technological evolution of this advanced species on this planet and one way to do that. Tucker Carlsonwould be for what purpose I wonder?

    Joe RoganWell, that's a very good question My my belief is that? Biological intelligent life is essentially a caterpillar and it's a caterpillar that's making a cocoon and it doesn't even know why it's doing it It's just doing it and that cocoon is gonna give birth to artificial life Digital life it's gonna give birth to a new life form. I think we're real close to that. I think we're Way closer than that to that than most people would ever want to admit. Tucker CarlsonI agree I agree Joe Roganand I think Tucker Carlson but it can we assign a like a value to that is that good or bad?

    Joe Rogan
    Starting point is 00:29:25
    That's a good question. It depends, universally, I think it's the path. I think it's what happens. I think, what this thing is, if you extrapolate, if you take the concept of a sentient artificial intelligence the concept of a sentient artificial intelligence that has the ability to utilize all the information that every human being has on Earth at a level of computing that's far beyond the capabilities of the human mind and all of our supercomputers that currently exist because it'll design much better

    Starting point is 00:30:02
    computers, it'll use quantum computers. It'll have the ability to recode things and change things. It'll make better versions of itself. So instead of biological evolution, which is very slow, it takes a long time, relatively. It takes, it's pretty quick really when you think about it, like how long, it's not that long to go from being a single-celled organism to being a human being Flying a plane really relatively over the course of a billion years if you think about how long the universe has been around But it's slow compared to technological evolution I mean a hundred years ago

    Starting point is 00:30:38
    We didn't have $#@! and now we have we could send videos from your phone and it'll hit New Zealand in a second. It's crazy. The stuff that we have now is beyond imagination. It's essentially magic for people 100 years ago. If that keeps going, it's ultimately gonna lead to a life form. And if that life form has now untethered, it doesn't have any problems with biological

    Starting point is 00:31:07
    evolution. Now it's just about information and implementing the technology that's available and then increasing that technology and making it better and better. It essentially becomes a god because if you give it enough time, it has the ability to make better versions of itself, which will in turn make better versions of itself. It has the ability to utilize everything. It has the understanding of everything that exists in the universe. It's black holes, dark matter, everything. And it probably has the ability to harness that or even

    Starting point is 00:31:45
    reproduce that. So if you take artificial sentient intelligence and it has this super accelerated path of technological evolution and you give artificial general intelligence, sentient artificial intelligence far beyond human beings, you give it a thousand years alone To make better and better versions of itself. Where does that go that goes to a god? Tucker CarlsonWhat kind of God so like I think of this way so the first stage of the Industrial Revolution Consist of people building machines that were stronger than the human body, right? Joe RoganRight, Tucker Carlsonso the steam powered loom.

    Starting point is 00:32:25
    JRSure. TCThe backhoe. JRCombustion engine. TCCombustion engine. They replace muscles. JRRight. TCRight. So that's what the machine does. It becomes stronger than the human body.

    Starting point is 00:32:36
    The second stage, which we're in the middle of, consists of creating machines that are more powerful than the human mind. That's what computing is. And I would say AI or super computing is just that exponentially. But that doesn't make it a god in the sense that the machine, however powerful it is, any more than a backhoe is a god because it can dig a trench faster than a hundred men. It's still something that people created.

    Starting point is 00:33:05
    So the story hasn't really changed. At the center of the story are people and their creative power may lead to unintended consequences, but the machines that they build did not make the universe and did not make people. People made the machines. But I would say the part I agree with

    Starting point is 00:33:24
    is there's a spiritual component here for sure. People will worship AI as a God. AI, Ted Kaczynski was likely right, will get away from us. We will be controlled by the thing that we made. All those are bad. Like that's just bad. And we need to say unequivocally, it's bad.
    Starting point is 00:33:40

    It's bad to be controlled by machines. JRRight. TC Machines are helpmates. Like we created them to help us to make our lives better, not to take orders from them. So I don't know why we're not having any of these conversations right now. We're just acting as if this is like some kind of virus,

    Starting point is 00:33:59
    like COVID that spreads across the world inexorably. There's nothing we can do about it. Just wait to get it. It's like, no. If we agree that the outcome is bad, and specifically it's bad for people, we should care what's good for people. That's all we should care about, is it good for people or not?

    Starting point is 00:34:16
    If it's bad for people, then we should strangle it in its crib right now. JRRight. [b]TC[b] And why don't you just blow up the data centers? Like, why is that hard? If it's actually going to become what you just described, which is a threat to people, humanity, life, then we have a moral obligation to murder it immediately.

    Starting point is 00:34:35
    And since it's not alive, we don't need to feel bad about that. JRWell, you could say the same about the atomic bomb, right? TCYes, you could. JRAnd you could say that we have to develop it like Oppenheimer felt before the Nazis. TCI love that how that work Well, I love by the way that people on my side
    Starting point is 00:34:55

    I'll just say I'll just admit it on the right, you know I've spent the last 80 years defending dropping nuclear weapons on civilians, like are you joking? That's just like prima facie evil. If you can't, well, if we hadn't done that, then this, that, the other thing, that was actually a great savings. No, it's wrong to drop nuclear weapons on people. And if you find yourself arguing that it's a good thing

    Starting point is 00:35:18
    to drop nuclear weapons on people, then you are evil. Like it's not a tough one, right? It's not a hard call for me. So with that in mind, like, why would you want nuclear weapons? It's like just a mindless childish sort of intellectual exercise to justify like, oh no, it's really good because someone else,

    Starting point is 00:35:35
    how about no? How about like spending all of your effort to prevent this from happening? Would you kill baby Hitler, you know, famously? JRRight. TC So I don't know why we're sitting back and allowing this to happen if we really believe it will extinguish the human race

    Starting point is 00:35:51
    or enslave the human race. How can that be good? JRWell, if God creates everything, if God created the universe and God creates people, God probably creates a process. And we think that we are very important because we are very important to us. But are we very important in the universal sense? Not really. Like, if the earth just imploded and disappeared, if the sun went supernova and our whole solar system was blown

    Starting point is 00:36:20
    to bits, the universe still exists. And God created- TCIt depends how wide you're, for sure. In the end, as Conan O'Brien, the famous philosopher once said, every grave goes unvisited, which is true. And that's an important perspective. Pull out the lens a little bit. Does it really matter? No, it doesn't.

    Starting point is 00:36:38
    JRBut it does matter. It does matter to us. TCHow about this? Do your children matter? JRYes, sure. TC Do their lives matter? JR For sure. TCWould you die for them? JRYes, of course. Everything matters.

    Starting point is 00:36:47
    If you're not comfortable, it matters. If you're sitting here, like, you don't wanna wear headphones, like, let's not wear headphones. That matters. Everything matters. The, I mean, at scale. TC But what matters most, like?

    JR
    Starting point is 00:36:57
    Right, is it, that is the evil, right? The evil is the, it's the same thing as saying the necessary evil of dropping nuclear bombs on civilians is if you don't do that, then there'll be more evil, then more things will happen. It's kind of the same thing as saying the necessary evil of dropping nuclear bombs on civilians is if you don't do that Then there'll be more evil then more things will happen. It's kind of the same thing like it doesn't TCWell it comes from the same place which is hubris. Like imagining your God you have unlimited power and you have omniscience You can imagine what the future is gonna be you can't you're $#@!ing idiot You're a person like you can't even make your wife happy.

    Starting point is 00:37:25
    The limits of your power are really obvious. The limits of your wisdom, same. So don't jump into $#@!, big things, whose outcomes you can't predict with certainty. You can't know. Go in with humility. I guess that's what I'm saying. Right?

    Starting point is 00:37:42
    And do what you can, knowing that you're probably gonna screw it up and you probably won't achieve your goal, but like you should try. And on the AI question, everyone I've ever talked to, but I'm hardly an expert, I don't own a computer, okay? But everybody I've ever talked to, and there's many people, like, yeah,

    Starting point is 00:37:59
    it could get away from us and enslave us. Well, let's say no to slavery, how's that? Is that a tough one? Not for me. JRYeah. TCI mean, and maybe a good use of nuclear weapons would be to hit the data centers. JR LAUGHING TCNo, I'm serious.

    And here's the part of the conversation where Tucker Carlson defends a black nationalist socialist who Biden is trying to put in prison for the rest of his natural born life for taking the Russian position in the war in Ukraine and going to the United Nations in 2015 to say there is a genocide in America against black people. (And yet the Democrats pretend to support the slogan "black lives matter.") And @Anti Federalist, this is the point I was trying to make in the thread about the anarcho-communist who burned himself to death protesting Trump and Biden, bad COVID policy and what he sees as a crypto ponzi scheme. Unlike Ted Kaczynski, with whom Tucker agrees with about AI being an existential threat, the anarcho-communist didn't hurt anyone but himself. And if Tucker Carlson can find common ground on a common message with someone like the unibomber, or with a black nationalist socialist, then maybe it's not wrong to hear a message all the way out even if you don't agree with the method (letter bombs or self immolation) or all of the message (is there a genocide against African Americans in the U.S. in particular?) I think @PAF, @CCTelnder and @acptulsa understand what I'm saying. Defensive vote for Trump all you want. Tucker seems pretty keen on voting for Trump. But there are things in this world that are possibly more important and certainly have longer lasting effect than voting.

    Starting point is 01:24:31
    And if somebody is not allowed to speak or fired from his job for having an opinion that you disagree with, defend him anyway. I just interviewed a guy who is a black nationalist socialist, okay? So I'm obviously not much of a black nationalist. I don't know if you're aware of that, but I'm not. And I'm not a socialist either.
    Starting point is 01:24:51
    But this guy is facing prison time under the Biden DOJ because he said things they don't like about foreign policy. And I just interviewed the guy for an hour and it was like, I'm, because on principle, you should be able to say what you think, period. What is this gentleman's name? He was actually, it turns out I like loved him. Oh, and I'm embarrassed I can't,
    Starting point is 01:25:12
    he's a member of a pretty small black nationalist socialist group. It's like the revolutionary black nationalists or something like that. They're out of Southwest Florida. And he's literally facing prison for repeating Russian disinformation. He's not even accused of doing anything.
    Starting point is 01:25:32
    He's accused of saying things the Biden DOJ doesn't like. Well, you know. What were these things that he said? Repeating Russian propaganda. About? About the invasion of Ukraine. And his point was, well, there's a backstory here, which is that NATO has been moving eastward since 1991,
    Starting point is 01:25:49
    and that's a massive threat to Russia. Missiles on their border from a hostile power is a threat. And the Biden administration accelerated that, and in response, Putin invaded eastern Ukraine. Now, you can disagree with that, but that's hardly a crackpot view, by the way. I think that's actually true, but even if you don't agree that it's true,
    Starting point is 01:26:07
    that's not, you don't have to be a paid propagandist from the Kremlin to say that. Right. I have said it, I'm not a paid propagandist. Is this the gentleman? That's him right there. Four Americans from a black-empowerment organization work with Russian intelligence to spread propaganda,
    Starting point is 01:26:20
    Fed say. Yes, to spread propaganda. Now propaganda, first of all, you know, there's a lot of propaganda. Scroll up a little on that, Jamie, so I can read what this is saying. It's covered up. Oh, okay. Right?
    Starting point is 01:26:34
    So that guy is, that guy right there. Okay, subscribe real quick. Yeah, the People's Democratic Uhuru Movement in St. Petersburg. So. So he contacted, he spoke with someone in Russia. They spoke with people in Russia and then he repeated. No, no, no, he is being, he's charged with felonies.
    Starting point is 01:26:51
    The FBI raided his house. The first thing they did was cover up the security cameras and they went in there and arrested them, raided by the FBI. Russia's foreign intelligence service allegedly weaponized our first amendment rights, freedoms, Russianized citizens to divide Americans and interfere elections in the US says assistant attorney general Matthew Olson.
    Starting point is 01:27:11
    Now, first of all, weaponized our first amendment rights? No, your first amendment rights are never a crime. They're God given, the government did not bestow them, you were born with them as a free person, period, and the First Amendment simply says you can't interfere with their exercise, that's it. And in this they are. And I looked at, I read this and I thought,
    Starting point is 01:27:37
    and I reached out to this guy by the way. Matthew Olson? No, I wish, Matthew Olson would never do my show. You mean the guy whose salary I pay as a US citizen? No, he would never speak to me. Listen, look at that quote. Russia's foreign intelligence services allegedly weaponized our First Amendment rights,
    Starting point is 01:27:53
    freedoms Russia denies its own citizens to divide Americans and interfere in elections in the United States. That, you gotta like, why are you saying that? Say what happened. Well, but nothing happens. So that's the thing. So I'm reading this, someone sent it to me
    Starting point is 01:28:08
    and I'm like, okay, clearly there's a crime here. Like they were found with, I don't know, mortar shells or they were, I mean, usually the government makes up, they put kiddie porn on your computer, at least to discredit you. There's no underlying crime other than they said something that the foreign policy establishment
    Starting point is 01:28:24
    of the United States disagrees with. Okay, that's not a crime other than they said something that the foreign policy establishment of the United States disagrees with. Okay, that's not a crime by definition. And this guy is facing life in prison. And it looks to me, because Barry Weiss has not defended him, I think this guy is likely to spend the rest of his life in prison. And I'm like, this is crazy. The rest of his life in prison? Yes.
    Starting point is 01:28:42
    Okay, hold it. This is the thing. I think he's 83. How do you say his prison? Yes! Okay, hold on, this is the thing. He's, I think he's 83. Ye$#@!, how do you say his name? Yeshitela? Yeshitela and three other U.S. citizens, Penny Joanne Hess, Jesse Neville, and Augustus C. Romaine Jr. are charged with conspiracy to defraud U.S. Hess? Uh, oh, okay, defraud the United States. Hess, Yeshitela, and and Nivelle are also charged
    Starting point is 01:29:06
    with impersonating agents of a foreign government. Okay, they say to defraud the United States, so defraud suggests theft of something of value, right? Right. If I defraud you, I steal your money. There's no allegation of that at all. And I actually read the charges. There's no, the only allegation is they said things
    Starting point is 01:29:27
    that the US government, the Biden administration doesn't like, that's it. And because they're unpopular, and they have views that are considered quote, fringe, you know, like crazy black nationalists, nobody wants to defend them. And my only point is not that I'm like such a principled person.
    Starting point is 01:29:45
    This seems very obvious to me. You can't allow that. You absolutely cannot allow that if you believe in the First Amendment and the freedom of free people to say what they think. So what this implication is, they're saying that they were recruited by the FSB. So it says the prosecutor said, Ianov operated an entity called the Anti-Globalization Movement of Russia that was used to carry out its US influence efforts overseen by the Russian intelligence service, known as FSB. They recruited US-based organizations to help sway elections, make it appear there was a strong support in the US for Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and backed efforts such
    Starting point is 01:30:25
    as the 2015 United Nations petition to decry the genocide of African people in the US according to the indictment. Backed efforts. What does that mean? Look at that. It means that. It's negative to back efforts such as the 2015 United Nations petition to decry the genocide of African people. But just look at that statement. Backed efforts such as a
    Starting point is 01:30:54
    thing to decry genocide. The United Nations petition of 2015 to decry the genocide of African people in the US according to the indictment. Okay, so the real misinformation and propaganda is in the charging documents, actually. The real liars here are the Biden DOJ officials who did this, and they're dangerous. They're criminals, in my opinion. But if you read it carefully,
    Starting point is 01:31:19
    you will see that the only crime is having opinions that the people in charge didn't like. And were they in contact with people from Russia? Yeah, I think they went over to Russia for some conference. So, by the way, the way this typically works is they say, well, you went to a country against which we've imposed sanctions and you violated the sanctions regime in some way.
    Starting point is 01:31:42
    Like that's how they get you. They're not even alleging that. They're not even alleging that. They're not even alleging that. They're just saying, you said things that we don't like, that by the way a foreign government we don't like, agrees with. But that's not- But that they learned those when they went over to Russia?
    Starting point is 01:31:56
    They learned these things? No, it's all on the internet. That they learned them? I mean, I guess it doesn't matter where they learned them. I would, because I've talked to the guy and I've seen what they wrote, the opinions that they expressed, I don't, you know, the genocide of African peoples
    Starting point is 01:32:12
    in America, I don't even know what that means. I guess I don't agree with that. But their views on Russia, I generally agree with because I think they're true. And so does Jeff Sachs and a lot of other non-crazy, non-black nationalists who probably agree with the basic framework of their position. But whether we agree or not is not relevant.
    Starting point is 01:32:31
    Right. All that matters is in a free country, which this was when I grew up, you have the right to any opinion you want. You do not have the right to hurt people, you don't have the right to steal from them, you don't have the right to defraud people, but you certainly foremost have the right to hurt people, you don't have the right to steal from them, you don't have the right to defraud people, but you certainly foremost have the right
    Starting point is 01:32:47
    to any opinion you want, no matter what the people in charge think of it. In fact, you have that right as a bulwark against tyranny by the people in charge. Like that's the only thing that keeps this country free is my right to have any opinion I want. And this guy is going to jail for his opinions. And, you know, it's so crazy that I kept thinking,
    Starting point is 01:33:10
    like, is there something that I'm missing? Like, it does seem a little fringe, this group. I'd never heard of them. I'm not sending them money, okay? They must have done something. Nope, nothing. And you should see the video of the FBI raid. It's unbelievable.
    Starting point is 01:33:22
    They sent, they sent like, it's on the internet. It's on X. I have the video on there. They sent like 40 armed agents with automatic weapons to this guy's office and his house like no exaggeration It was a full-blown like we're arresting El Chapo type thing for this guy's like an 83 year old army veteran It's outrageous. And I really find it baffling that nobody who's like against woke culture, whatever, will touch it. And the reason they won't touch it is because their foreign policy views in general are more important
    Starting point is 01:33:58
    to them than their views on speech and the First Amendment. Their views on America. Well, if you step out of line, right, so the ideology is that we must support Ukraine. So this is, Russia has a point. This is what they're saying. So Russia was very upset about the movement of the weapons closer to their borders, the joining NATO, all the stuff that was the hard red lines that Putin had already set, like if Russia would definitely do something if Ukraine joined NATO.
    Starting point is 01:34:34
    We all knew that. So if you deviate from that, you're going to be in trouble. So better just ignore it. Because you can't, you clearly, if you look at who these people are, I mean these are people that would be supported by the left, wholeheartedly. Well they are, I mean it's like
    Starting point is 01:34:52
    the revolutionary socialism. Yeah, right. They're not at CPAC this year. But the left has to ignore it because then. 100%. It conflicts with this other part of the ideology. Well the categories right and left are just like, now they're actually ridiculous.

    Starting point is 01:35:04
    They're ridiculous. They don't mean anything. In fact, we've moved, the categories right and left are just like, now they're actually ridiculous. They're ridiculous. They don't mean anything. In fact, we've moved past the point where they don't mean anything, they do mean something. They are propaganda instruments designed to cloak the truth from the rest of us. Then in fact, there's agreement, not disagreement at the center of power.
    Starting point is 01:35:19
    They all agree on the things that matter. And those are the economy and foreign policy because that's where the money is. There's no effort to say rein in the credit card companies, which if you really cared about the country, you'd say but people are really suffering, okay, they don't have enough money to live, kids can't not only not buy houses, they can't afford rent, and why is that? And one of the main reasons is because they're paying like close to 20% interest on their credit cards and
    Starting point is 01:35:50
    Okay, we just imagine that in a free market, that's a good thing. Tell me why that's a good thing who benefits from that Why are we for that again? I'm not for that. I think the credit card companies are villains and They send credit cards to kids at school and get them hooked on this. I think it's totally wrong and If you said that in the US Congress people people would look at you like you had three heads, like what? They just don't care because they all agree that our current economic system and our current foreign policy assumptions are good. So that's not a two party system, that's a one party system, and it doesn't serve the interest of the country.
    Starting point is 01:36:20
    And my position is super simple. The only country I have an emotional attachment to is the United States, that's it. I like lots of countries. I like almost all countries actually. I've been to a lot of them. I like them all. But the only one I feel emotional about
    Starting point is 01:36:32
    is the United States, because I live here. I was born here, my kids are here. It's my country. And most of the people in our foreign policy conversation do not feel that way. So that distorts it really dramatically. And there also, a lot of them are violence worshipers. Like they get off on war.
    Starting point is 01:36:50
    They get off on hurting people and on the power that that imbues them with. And I think, you know, the Liz Cheney model, you know what I mean? Like someone like Liz Cheney, who's got like a really sad and barren personal life, a lot of them are this way, weird personal life, failed personal life.
    Starting point is 01:37:09
    Like they don't have people who love them. They don't have kids who respect them. And so Adam Kinzinger or whatever, they're all kind of the same. The more broken they are inside, the more focused they are on like war and foreign policy because it gives them a feeling of power and strength and success.
    Starting point is 01:37:25
    Like I can't get my wife to respect me. I can't get my kids to listen to me. I can't pass any meaningful domestic agenda. But what I can do is bomb the living $#@! out of a foreign country. And so there is this, it's not true for all of them, but for a lot of them, there is this syndrome that drives their behavior.
    Starting point is 01:37:47
    But whatever the reason, it's totally disconnected from what's good for the country. And if you run America, you have one job, one job, and that's improve America, period. They don't see it that way. So I don't think the system can continue because it's too distorted. It's not serving its original purpose at all. So what was it that these guys said that made this raid possible? They said Russia, and I don't wanna speak for them.
    Starting point is 01:38:17
    Like I interviewed, anyone who wants to see it can interview. And I just wanna say again, like one of the cool things about this moment that I did not anticipate all this sad stuff happening, I know that you probably experienced this all the time, is like finding not only common ground with people you thought you had nothing in common with at all, but also like liking them.
    Starting point is 01:38:35
    You know, like I actually liked the guy. I'm sure we disagree on a million things, probably mad at white people. I am a white person, whatever. But like in my conversation, I was like, I like this guy. You know, he's honest and he's sincere, he's principled. He was a veteran, you know, but whatever. No, I really think what they said was what I have said and a lot of people have said,
    Starting point is 01:38:56
    which is there was a reason for this invasion. I personally think the invasion was a bad idea, didn't help anybody. I'm against war, I'm sad, the war's ongoing. But they were pushed to this by a more powerful country, which would be the United States of America With the threat of including Ukraine in NATO. It's really simple and right before the invasion days before the invasion They send poor Kamala Harris who has no idea what day it is to the Munich Security Conference an area She knows nothing about no experience in at. And they send her there for one purpose,
    Starting point is 01:39:26
    which is to announce any press briefing with all the cameras rolling, to Zelensky right there, she says, "'We want you to join NATO.'" What? No other NATO members were clamoring for Ukraine. It didn't even qualify for a NATO membership. Why would you say that?

    (Note I got a little tired trying to reformat everything. So I'm not going to worry reformatting that last part. I may write a computer program in Python to fix it up. Or....use AI. )
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  9. #8
    Sorry Ben Shapiro, it’s not ‘left-wing’ to call U.S. Hiroshima bombing ‘evil’
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeXStE9nK6k
    {Jack Hunter | 24 April 2024}

    When Tucker Carlson called America’s dropping of the atomic bomb on Japan ‘evil’ recently, the Daily Wire host called it ‘left-wing.’



    Dropping the Atomic Bomb On Japan Wasn’t Necessary. Just Ask the Military Leaders of WW2
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnYTRDVlbJI
    {Jack Hunter | 24 April 2024}

    Conservative pundits Steven Crowder and Ben Shapiro both say Tucker Carlson is wrong to call the U.S. dropping an atomic bomb on Japan in 1945 ‘evil.’




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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Sorry Ben Shapiro, it’s not ‘left-wing’ to call U.S. Hiroshima bombing ‘evil’
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeXStE9nK6k
    {Jack Hunter | 24 April 2024}

    When Tucker Carlson called America’s dropping of the atomic bomb on Japan ‘evil’ recently, the Daily Wire host called it ‘left-wing.’



    Dropping the Atomic Bomb On Japan Wasn’t Necessary. Just Ask the Military Leaders of WW2
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnYTRDVlbJI
    {Jack Hunter | 24 April 2024}

    Conservative pundits Steven Crowder and Ben Shapiro both say Tucker Carlson is wrong to call the U.S. dropping an atomic bomb on Japan in 1945 ‘evil.’

    It's LAUGHABLE that Stephen Crowder is SOOOOOO pro life that he wants to prohibit abortion from conceptions (I wonder what he thinks of the Alabama ruling that frozen embryos are people which temporarily halted all IVF procedures in the state), ignoring the argument back alley abortions kill women and children (as opposed to just children) and yet he's willing to sacrifice old people, women and children for the sake of forcing Japan to accept unconditional surrender? Japan is a island with limited resources. Say if instead of hopping island to island sending in land troops, we simply kept bombing military targets? No terrorism (which the atomic bombs were). Just military targets? And if we were so against the emperor remaining in power....we could have bombed the imperial palace. There was nothing stopping that. Stephen Crowder's position is actually MUCH worse than the official rules of war set out by Mohammed and about as bad as modern Islamic terrorism.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  12. #10

  13. #11
    Nobody forces a person to use credit cards or pay that interest.
    The only reason people are paying 20% on their credit card is because they are spending more than they make.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Say if instead of hopping island to island sending in land troops, we simply kept bombing military targets? No terrorism (which the atomic bombs were). Just military targets? And if we were so against the emperor remaining in power....we could have bombed the imperial palace. There was nothing stopping that.
    Hiroshima and Nagasaki were military targets. Conventional bombing of these targets would have led to just as many if not
    more casualties. The imperial palace was in Tokyo, so you are suggesting bomb Tokyo and kill the emperor that the Japanese people revered as a God. You think killing their God would make it more likely or less likely for them to surrender????? You speak as if no one during that time thought these things out....we actually had very smart people wargaming every single decision. Not like the dumbos we have today.
    Last edited by spudea; 04-26-2024 at 05:11 PM.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    Hiroshima and Nagasaki were military targets. Conventional bombing of these targets would have led to just as many if not
    more casualties. The imperial palace was in Tokyo, so you are suggesting bomb Tokyo and kill the emperor that the Japanese people revered as a God. You think killing their God would make it more likely or less likely for them to surrender????? You speak as if no one during that time thought these things out....we actually had very smart people wargaming every single decision. Not like the dumbos we have today.
    General Dwight D. Eisenhower disagreed with your conclusion. I have much more faith in his military mind than I do yours. The Japanese had already offered conditional surrender. They were also no longer a threat to attack anyone outside of Japan. Their navy was sunk. Their air force was reduced to a handful of garbage planes that sucked so bad that it was easier to use them as flying bombs than to actually use them as bombers. Hence the rise of the kamikaze which really didn't become a thing until 1944.

    And just so you know I'm not pulling this out of my ass....

    https://www.aei.org/op-eds/japan-was...asic-morality/

    “I was against it on two counts,” Dwight Eisenhower, supreme allied commander, five-star general, and president of the United States, said of dropping nuclear bombs on two Japanese cities. “First, the Japanese were ready to surrender, and it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing. Second, I hated to see our country be the first to use such a weapon.”

    And also:

    Adm. William Leahy, President Harry Truman’s chief military adviser, agreed with Eisenhower. “It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan,” Leahy wrote. “The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons.”

    I don't that there were people during the time who "thought these things out" and came to your conclusion. That doesn't mean they were right. That's like the cult think of "Well Fauci said it and we can't question the science." We sure as hell can. And we can question the "experts" that say there was no other choice but drop two atomic bombs on major civilian population centers or do a land invasion. There's always another choice.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Tucker took the overwhelmingly Biblical position on interest.

    https://www.openbible.info/topics/usury

    Interestingly enough the early Christian church understood this. Christians couldn't charge Christians interest and Jews couldn't charge Jews. So....they each would lend to the other group as interest. And that was the beginning of the modern banking system.

    Of course there is a way around without involving government. Peer lending platforms like https://Kiva.org allow people to borrow and lend interest free to invest in small business ventures. And really that's the only debt people should get into. But that requires a complete mind shift especially among religious leaders who's only view of money is "Pay your tithe and offering" as opposed to "Let's pool our resources and be our own venture capital bank."
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Their navy was sunk. Their air force was reduced to a handful of garbage planes that sucked so bad that it was easier to use them as flying bombs than to actually use them as bombers. Hence the rise of the kamikaze which really didn't become a thing until 1944.
    And what little they had left or could still produce they had precious little fuel for. As in, no fuel at all for training crews before they sent them into battle.
    Imagine yourself a pilot on not just your first solo, but your first flight, getting shot at.

    Yes, they had sued for peace. I heard somewhere that the main sticking point was the U.S. demanded the God Emperor step down, a thing we didn't make them do after all.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Of course it's the fed which should be abolished.

    FYI: regular citizens are prevented by law from charging interest rates above X%, whereas the CC companies can charge double and more what you are allowed and it is completely allowable.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    General Dwight D. Eisenhower disagreed with your conclusion. I have much more faith in his military mind than I do yours. The Japanese had already offered conditional surrender. They were also no longer a threat to attack anyone outside of Japan. Their navy was sunk. Their air force was reduced to a handful of garbage planes that sucked so bad that it was easier to use them as flying bombs than to actually use them as bombers. Hence the rise of the kamikaze which really didn't become a thing until 1944.

    And just so you know I'm not pulling this out of my ass....

    https://www.aei.org/op-eds/japan-was...asic-morality/

    “I was against it on two counts,” Dwight Eisenhower, supreme allied commander, five-star general, and president of the United States, said of dropping nuclear bombs on two Japanese cities. “First, the Japanese were ready to surrender, and it wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing. Second, I hated to see our country be the first to use such a weapon.”

    And also:

    Adm. William Leahy, President Harry Truman’s chief military adviser, agreed with Eisenhower. “It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan,” Leahy wrote. “The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons.”

    I don't that there were people during the time who "thought these things out" and came to your conclusion. That doesn't mean they were right. That's like the cult think of "Well Fauci said it and we can't question the science." We sure as hell can. And we can question the "experts" that say there was no other choice but drop two atomic bombs on major civilian population centers or do a land invasion. There's always another choice.
    Eisenhower was in Europe and didn't have the experience with the Pacific theater strategy planning, thus his opinions after the fact are questionable, AKA Monday morning quarterbacking. The quote you reference from William Leahy is from his memoir after the fact. He didn't raise strong objections during the planning meetings.
    Last edited by spudea; 04-26-2024 at 06:17 PM.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    Eisenhower was in Europe and didn't have the experience with the Pacific theater strategy planning, thus his opinions after the fact are questionable, AKA Monday morning quarterbacking. The quote you reference from William Leahy is from his memoir after the fact. He didn't raise strong objections during the planning meetings.
    That's irrelevant. Eisenhower was able to read. And he read the document from Japan offering its surrender. That's covered in the Jack Hunter video that I was responding to (it's interesting that out of multiple people taking a different position on this you're only responding to me but whatever). And your idea that killing the Japanese "god emperor" would not undermine his position as a god is laughable.



    And for MacAthor (I'm guessing you're relying on him as your Pacific theater expert? You haven't actually cited a signal source.) that nut job wanted to use nukes in the Korean War.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    And what little they had left or could still produce they had precious little fuel for. As in, no fuel at all for training crews before they sent them into battle.
    Imagine yourself a pilot on not just your first solo, but your first flight, getting shot at.

    Yes, they had sued for peace. I heard somewhere that the main sticking point was the U.S. demanded the God Emperor step down, a thing we didn't make them do after all.
    Yep. And Japan’s final surrender was likely because Stalin started saber rattling. It had nothing to do with the bombs, which, by the way, practically wiped Christianity out in Japan. Nagasaki was known as the Christian capital of Japan and was home to the largest cathedral in Asia until the bomb.

    https://consortiumnews.com/2023/08/0...gasaki-bomb-2/

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    And @Anti Federalist, this is the point I was trying to make in the thread about the anarcho-communist who burned himself to death protesting Trump and Biden, bad COVID policy and what he sees as a crypto ponzi scheme. Unlike Ted Kaczynski, with whom Tucker agrees with about AI being an existential threat, the anarcho-communist didn't hurt anyone but himself. And if Tucker Carlson can find common ground on a common message with someone like the unibomber, or with a black nationalist socialist, then maybe it's not wrong to hear a message all the way out even if you don't agree with the method (letter bombs or self immolation) or all of the message (is there a genocide against African Americans in the U.S. in particular?) I think @PAF, @CCTelnder and @acptulsa understand what I'm saying. Defensive vote for Trump all you want. Tucker seems pretty keen on voting for Trump. But there are things in this world that are possibly more important and certainly have longer lasting effect than voting.
    Well, I like to think that I do hear a message all the way out.

    Now, that does not necessarily mean that, after listening to the message, analyzing and digesting it, I will agree.

    One way or the other I do try to make points that buttress my decision to accept or reject an idea, proposal or theory.

    A variant of "Unibomber" was my nickname at the business I owned, so yes, I found some common ground there, and I imagine with the free speech and separatist aspects of the Black Uhuru movement as well.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  24. #21
    Tucker seems pretty convinced on the whole alien thing. Is the evidence really that compelling? I haven't bothered to look.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  25. #22
    I would have liked to see Rogan challenge some of Tucker's very weird views about marijuana like legalization being a communist plot to dumb down America and such. Knowing how Rogan thinks on this issue I'm surprised it didn't come up, but also not surprised because so many podcasts nowadays are not about challenging the views of guests that come on (which is true of Tucker's show on X especially).

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    THREAD: Dave Smith vs. neocons @ Tucker Carlson

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Say his name.

    https://x.com/MLiamMcCollum/status/1791219617379061945



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