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Thread: Trump & FISA

  1. #1

    Trump & FISA

    SPLIT FROM: FISA reauthorization & Section 702 warrantless surveillance

    House blocks FISA reauthorization bill after Trump says ‘kill FISA’

    The GOP-led House voted to block the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act reauthorization bill on the House floor Wednesday after it passed out of the Rules Committee on Tuesday.

    The vote to block the rule providing for House floor consideration of the bill was 228 to 193. The latest vote reportedly marks the seventh time a rule that has failed on the House floor under House Speaker Mike Johnson, R-La.

    The "Reforming Intelligence and Securing America Act" would have extended Section 702 of FISA for 5 years. A group of amendments to the bill including a warrant requirement had cleared the Rules Committee on Tuesday night.

    Former President Trump had posted on Truth Social that the GOP should "kill FISA" shortly before the scheduled vote.

    More at: https://justthenews.com/government/c...orization-bill
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 04-22-2024 at 02:44 AM. Reason: added original post title to body after split
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #2
    Maybe Trump learned his lesson and will actually fight against this crap next time around if he wins again
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Maybe Trump learned his lesson and will actually fight against this crap next time around if he wins again
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Former President Trump had posted on Truth Social that the GOP should "kill FISA" shortly before the scheduled vote.
    How generous of the two-faced politician /slash/ opportunist who is up for reelection.

    - January 17, 2018 - U.S. President Donald Trump on Friday said he signed into law a bill renewing the National Security Agency’s Warrantless Internet Surveillance Program, sealing a defeat for digital privacy advocates. The legislation renews and extends Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) for six years and with minimal changes the National Security Agency (NSA) program. The program also incidentally scoops up Americans’ communications, including when they communicate with a foreign target living overseas, and can search those messages without a warrant.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...idUSKBN1F82MK/

    Oh, I know, it was jdyvgzfbgghgfdop’s fault, so he had to do it.

    Nice sales-pitch. Not.
    Last edited by PAF; 04-11-2024 at 02:33 PM.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    How generous of the two-faced politician /slash/ opportunist who is up for reelection.




    Oh, I know, it was jdyvgzfbgghgfdop’s fault, so he had to do it.

    Nice sales-pitch. Not.
    Veto proof majorities.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Veto proof majorities.
    No excuse. He should have gone on record defending the 4th amendment and given a speech calling out those who voted to gut it.
    My two daughters and I were gang-raped by some of the Newcomers. It landed us in the hospital for 3 weeks as several bones were broken. I don't blame them, it was a sexual emergency and I wasn't about to go all white privilege and deny them the release they needed, especially after being stuck in a hotel for months. I see the Newcomers as family now. They are on our side and will help us stop Trump. It is a small price to pay. Anything but Trump.

    -GLP poster

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    No excuse. He should have gone on record defending the 4th amendment and given a speech calling out those who voted to gut it.
    He's trying to kill it completely now.
    He's not perfect, just the best option we have.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He's trying to kill it completely now.
    He's not perfect, just the best option we have.

    [snip]
    .
    .
    The power of mass media takes advantage of human nature. Target audiences are presented with images and sounds that are naturally appealing. Then a new idea or suggested action is equated with the appealing scene, and the observer is unconsciously nudged to adopt the new behavior. For example, a commercial might show a happy family playing around the backyard swimming pool of a large house. Smiles and laughter abound. Smoke from barbecued meat drifts through the air and creates an imaginary aroma. Then an attractive mother looks to the camera and claims that she uses this product, or supports this politician, or believes in this idea. Because the staged family seems ideal, the viewer imagines herself as part of it, and while placing herself inside the narrative, she is subtly drawn to the product or concept being promoted. This is propaganda’s version of the Transitive Property of Equality: if the target identifies with the actors, and the actors identify with a product, then the target will identify with that product, too.
    .
    .

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2024/04/...es-propaganda/
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Will Rogers
    It won't mean a thing. They will go in like all the rest of them, go in on promises and come out on alibis.
    Trump and his useful idiots are uniquely arrogant in believing the world ought to buy the same set of broken promises again, because the alibis they lovingly craft for him are just so darned good.

    They're exactly like progs. They want everyone to forget history.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    Last edited by acptulsa; 04-12-2024 at 06:33 AM.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Point taken. Given that the Donald failed to keep his single most significant promise to drain the swamp, I understand how people might feel a smidge of mistrust. /sarc

    However, and this turns on the assumption that the relevant factors are what they appear and are not theater elements, it could be said that Trump's putative defeat in 2020 holds at least some potential as a backhanded victory. Consider all that has come to light in the wake of his losing his bid for a second term. Would the raving corruption that we all knew was present, but could never quite prove beyond doubt in open fashion before the world have come to the fore in the absence of the left's apparently wild and flailing efforts to ensure Trump could never again gain the office? The seemingly unhinged reaction of the left, largely made manifest by the Democrats, has exposed the raw rot and stench and extent of the running state of unbridled corruption. If this is "organic", then one can but wonder where it will all lead in terms of people red-pilling and perhaps deciding they've had enough - dare I even hope. If it just more theater, perhaps intended as a show or even a metric of just how utter now is Theire power, then never mind.

    I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I can't tell which this all is... or perhaps it is a mix and Theye are once again finding themselves astonished at how fully corrupted we Americans have become.

    At this point I can dismiss nary a possibility out of hand.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  13. #11
    President Donald Trump and House Speaker Mike Johnson held a joint press conference earlier today from Mar-a-Lago.

    Keep in mind, the UniParty DC operation is constructed to remove Johnson and negate the Republican majority in the House of Representatives as a strategy against Donald Trump. As an outcome, Trump must navigate this shark infested water very carefully.

    Despite his personal and private opinions of Speaker Johnson, Trump must position support as a method to stop the effort to flip the House prior to the November election. Keep this in mind as you look at “Republican” members who would appear to be targeting Johnson from a MAGA perspective. Even with all the stupidity of the Speaker on full display, removing Johnson right now would be tantamount to a hostile anti-Trump shift in the House… WATCH:



    https://theconservativetreehouse.com...-mike-johnson/
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    President Donald Trump and House Speaker Mike Johnson held a joint press conference earlier today from Mar-a-Lago.

    Keep in mind, the UniParty DC operation is constructed to remove Johnson and negate the Republican majority in the House of Representatives as a strategy against Donald Trump. As an outcome, Trump must navigate this shark infested water very carefully.

    Despite his personal and private opinions of Speaker Johnson, Trump must position support as a method to stop the effort to flip the House prior to the November election. Keep this in mind as you look at “Republican” members who would appear to be targeting Johnson from a MAGA perspective. Even with all the stupidity of the Speaker on full display, removing Johnson right now would be tantamount to a hostile anti-Trump shift in the House… WATCH:



    https://theconservativetreehouse.com...-mike-johnson/

    Yep. Same DJT, same big government police-state solutions, never once addressed the root problems.

    If Trump wants to Drain the Swamp so badly, he can start with himself.

    That video was a complete waste of my time.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Keep in mind, the UniParty DC operation is constructed to remove Johnson and negate the Republican majority in the House of Representatives as a strategy against Donald Trump. As an outcome, Trump must navigate this shark infested water very carefully.

    Despite his personal and private opinions of Speaker Johnson, Trump must position support as a method to stop the effort to flip the House prior to the November election. Keep this in mind as you look at “Republican” members who would appear to be targeting Johnson from a MAGA perspective. Even with all the stupidity of the Speaker on full display, removing Johnson right now would be tantamount to a hostile anti-Trump shift in the House…
    It's a war against us. Not Donald Trump. The American people.

    We may not have fame, an imported trophy wife, and a penchant for gold plated toilets. But we count too. In fact, we count more, because there are lots more of us than Donald Trump.

    If getting rid of this Traitor Johnson hurts Trump, that's Trump's hard luck. I'm not letting a bunch of children in a treehouse talk me down.



    Last edited by acptulsa; 04-13-2024 at 05:32 AM.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    It's a war against us. Not Donald Trump. The American people.

    We may not have fame, an imported trophy wife, and a penchant for gold plated toilets. But we count too. In fact, we count more, because there are lots more of us than Donald Trump.

    If getting rid of this Traitor Johnson hurts Trump, that's Trump's hard luck. I'm not letting a bunch of children in a treehouse talk me down.
    You truly are not tall enough for this ride.
    Do you have any idea what the Demoncrats will do with control of the House in addition to the Senate and the White House?
    They are after Trump because he's between them and us.
    In addition to just what they will do with full government control, they will establish an open dictatorship if they can use the House to declare Trump guilty of insurrection and ineligible for office.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Yep. Same DJT, same big government police-state solutions, never once addressed the root problems.

    If Trump wants to Drain the Swamp so badly, he can start with himself.

    That video was a complete waste of my time.
    Trump has already said to kill FISA entirely, and he's simply the best option we have.
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 04-13-2024 at 05:31 PM. Reason: mod edit
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You truly are not tall enough for this ride.
    Do you have any idea what the Demoncrats will do...
    Yes. And I have all the proof I could possibly need that Republicans won't stop them. Especially that RINO named Trump.

    Those who refuse to learn from history are condemned to repeat it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump has already said to kill FISA entirely...
    Candidate Trump says lots of things. President Trump was one of the reasons it isn't dead already.

    But of course, you've asserted many times that his first term doesn't count because he was just a chuckle-headed sucker a few years ago, not a malevolent wolf in sheep's clothes. I still don't vote for chuckle-headed suckers either. Once a saphead, always a saphead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    ... and he's simply the best option we have.
    Then we have no acceptable options at all. Either that, or you just want to eliminate the best option with your own personal definition of "option". You know. The way progs redefine words when they can't win a debate.
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 04-13-2024 at 05:31 PM. Reason: mod edit



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump has already said to kill FISA entirely, and he's simply the best option we have.
    I can’t wait to hear the excuses this time.

    In case you missed it:

    - January 17, 2018 - U.S. President Donald Trump on Friday said he signed into law a bill renewing the National Security Agency’s Warrantless Internet Surveillance Program, sealing a defeat for digital privacy advocates. The legislation renews and extends Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) for six years and with minimal changes the National Security Agency (NSA) program. The program also incidentally scoops up Americans’ communications, including when they communicate with a foreign target living overseas, and can search those messages without a warrant.

    In case you missed this too:

    - Donald Trump Supports NSA Data Collection:


    Next, you’ll be kissing up to the likes of her:





    Debbie Lesko Voted YES on H.R. 3935 FAA Reauthorization 07/20/2023

    https://thenewamerican.com/freedom-i...lator/l000589/
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 04-13-2024 at 05:32 PM. Reason: mod edit
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  21. #18
    I see here a fair amount of bile and outright hatred of Trump. I understand why and I have my own doubts, but riding around town on the "I Hate Trump" bandwagon is an unproductive tactic. If you need to vent, go to the back 40, set up targets, and break out the 50BMG. Ranting about the insufficiencies of Trump is a grade-A waste of time.


    We are in a fight for our lives, figuratively and possibly physically, depending on which of the paranoid conspiracy speculations to which you subscribe. Standing on principles in the way of a purist such that the perfect becomes the enemy of the "will have to do under the circumstances", is a highly self-defeating approach. Stand on uch if you absolutely must, but as your purity leads you to the gas chamber, remember what I wrote here on this day.

    There is principle and there is pragmatism. The sweet spot on any given day and under a given set of circumstances lies between the two. This is the essence of the art of living, and the art of war. My inner purist is with the others 100% regarding Trump. My inner pragmatist has taken a 2x4 and knocked the purist mostly stupid for the sake of not dying on the wrong hill. I provisionally support Trump because we the people are painted into a very tight corner, the alternative choices posing a far more remote chance of helping us out. It's trite and it is as sad as the devil bawling his eyes out a rock in Georgia, but Trump is by all appearances the lesser evil.

    And so we are left with the paltry choices of Biden, some ain't-gonna-win-no-matter-how-hard-we-vote third party candidate, Trump, giving up entirely and going home and blowing our brains out for despair, or going to hot warfare against Theire minions in the United States. None of these options are particularly appetizing, I think many here would agree. But Trump is, again to all appearances, by far the least of the evils presented to us for choice. And if the appearances are false in the ways and to the degrees we might call "worst case", then we are sore-$#@!ed and reduced to the choices of capitulation or hot war and nothing we do otherwise will count for anything good.

    As a practical measure, and given the reality of the unenviable position into which we have allowed ourselves to be maneuvered by malevolent interests, and further given that we cannot know for certain the cloth from which the Donald is cut, he remains the current best hope for any return to a lesser state of servitude. Again, if he proves to be something very much other than what he advertises, then we are screwed to the barn door no worse than if we choose otherwise. We know Biden will continue to pile-drive us into the dust, and IMO war is the option of absolute last resort, to be chosen only if it becomes clear that Trump is leading us down the garden path.

    I say support Trump with the full expectation that he is going to do the BOHICA tango on us. At that point we have nothing to lose but our cell phones and any crumbs tossed our way might be seen at least as a move in the right direction... maybe. Sitting this one out: loser. Voting otherwise: demonstrated loser. Going to war: almost vanishingly small likelihood we have to sand for it, and it would still be premature.

    Given what we have allowed Themme to do to us, and we are all guilty of it, Trump is the only choice that is even cosmetically promising not to make things worse.

    Be practical and have your inner pragmatist work your inner purist over with a soft iron wire until the latter gets really quiet because we don't need to hear from him a whole lot at the moment. If we can make for better days, and I'm very dubious that we can at this point, then we will want his counsel in order that we do our best not to become that which we claim to despise and hate.

    If ever there was a time in American history to get smart, it is now. As bad as things stand today, you will really hate what will be coming if we do not at least hold the barbarians at the gates.

    Your choice.

    It always was.

    Mortem proditoribus


    Mortem tyrannis
    Last edited by osan; 04-13-2024 at 12:29 PM.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    There is principle and there is pragmatism. The sweet spot on any given day and under a given set of circumstances lies between the two. This is the essence of the art of living, and the art of war. My inner purist is with the others 100% regarding Trump. My inner pragmatist has taken a 2x4 and knocked the purist mostly stupid for the sake of not dying on the wrong hill. I provisionally support Trump because we the people are painted into a very tight corner, the alternative choices posing a far more remote chance of helping us out. It's trite and it is as sad as the devil bawling his eyes out a rock in Georgia, but Trump is by all appearances the lesser evil.
    FFS. You, of all people? Fascism is the best you can expect?

    Don't know how to burst your bubble, but we're in no danger of being permanently saddled with this woke commie crap. It doesn't amuse the powers that be that much. It's a tool, a means to an end, and an expensive method too. No way they try to sustain it.

    We can do better than your lesser evil. We are not going to do worse. They've made Biden too unfunny a joke for his senile ass to be preserved.

    This is no time to stop being a radical. They're trying to make Trump look like the only option. Why would you help them do it? They're trying to make this such a high-stakes cycle of their lesser evil game that we say, we won't make you fool us any more. Take our constitution and our rights -- please. Biden is a toothless boogieman. One look and you know he won't last.

    It's a high stakes game. And as @Anti Federalist noted in another thread, they've never been more vulnerable. Ever. Certainly Trump-flavored fascism will make the remainder of your days more comfortable than this Biden Soviet is doing, but I prefer to think of the children. Some of them do deserve better.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 04-13-2024 at 12:45 PM.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You truly are not tall enough for this ride.
    Do you have any idea what the Demoncrats will do with control of the House in addition to the Senate and the White House?
    They are after Trump because he's between them and us.
    In addition to just what they will do with full government control, they will establish an open dictatorship if they can use the House to declare Trump guilty of insurrection and ineligible for office.
    Let them.

    Lets see if those 400 million guns and 8 trillion rounds of ammo are nothing more than expensive paperweights.

    The fix is already in, "they" have registered millions of unidentified voters.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    It's a high stakes game. And as @Anti Federalist noted in another thread, they've never been more vulnerable. Ever. Certainly Trump-flavored fascism will make the remainder of your days more comfortable than this Biden Soviet is doing, but I prefer to think of the children. Some of them do deserve better.
    I agree with you in that we can do better, the choice does not have to be Hitler or Stalin.

    But it will require a significant remnant of us to get smart and get hard, real $#@!ing fast.

    They are vulnerable...they are losing Bill Maher FFS.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    That's been Maher's position for decades. He's been pretty open about it.

    Of course, he also hates children despite being an undeveloped child himself.
    I had a little different take on it...his honest and harsh position makes people uncomfortable in confronting what it is.

    And I know he hates kids, but why this then?



    Yes, I know this is a silly discussion, but Maher still has a big audience.

    He just said, in this clip, basically, "You want Nazis? Because what you are doing is how you get Nazis."
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 04-13-2024 at 01:14 PM.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    FFS. You, of all people? Fascism is the best you can expect?
    OK, then what are your strategy and tactics? Be specific and give reasonable operational detail.

    Don't know how to burst your bubble, but we're in no danger of being permanently saddled with this woke commie crap.
    Where did I so much as hint at any of that? Do you mean to imply that our liberties are not at grave risk; that we have not already sustained huge losses while Theye cultivate their power and exercise ever more brazenly?

    Like it or not, wer are made war upon, or do you not believe this to be so?

    We can do better than your lesser evil.
    Alright, then lay it out for us, and please - no vague generalities. We need hard specifics that take into account the fact that Americans are just about at each other's throats in many locales.

    We are not going to do worse. They've made Biden too unfunny a joke for his senile ass to be preserved.
    And what do you think it is underlying reason for that? Ineptitude? Or perhaps its a finger in the eye of America that says "we can do anything we want and you can't do $#@! about it"? I keep hearing from cerain sources like x22 that Trump and the military are secretly setting up the fall of the "deep state". I hope it is so and I will cheerfully don my Village Idiot suit, marching proudly down Fifth Avenue if I am able to go home at night and watch the public executions. It may happen, but let us be realistic in our expectations that it is so.

    I'm not sure whence your seeming sense of optimism. Firstly, we stupid Americans allowed ourselves to be maneuvered into this position, which says little good about us as a people. All the great inventions in the world mean nothing at all if we show no sense for the basics such as out liberties and the rights that devolve therefrom. It's like the great philanthropist, giving and helping and raising up the less fortunate - all well and good, but a single grand felony such as murdering his neighbor so he can have a swag at his daughter is the single-point event upon which he will be judged, were he to commit such an act, erasing every merit he'd theretofore earned in the eyes of others.

    But that aside, and secondly, we can't get it up to put a single lousy brewery out of business for taking measures that offend the sensibilities of otherwise decent and nominally rational people. Anheuser Busch should have filed for chapter 11 long ago. The outrage at their PR flop lasted what, three weeks? A month? Way to go, American big yaps.

    So how, then, are we to dig ourselves out of the pit when we have no sand even to bear mere inconvenience? Remember 2008 when that Kenyan prick was foisted on us? An economic bubble burst and legions were calling it "economic collapse". $#@!'s sake, that was a hiccup and some people got burned. If Americans think that that is collapse, boy will they be in for it if and when an actual collapse occurs. Millions... tens of millions will die for want of knowledge and guts; people who become suicidal if they can't have their cell phones.


    But please do enlighten us as to how we will yank our freedoms and our rights from the jaws of the global tyrant, and I ask this not sarcastically, but forthrightly as someone who doesn't see much over which to be optimistic. Perhaps I've missed something; I often do. But I can also be very thoroughly circumspect and tend in such matters to be rather diligent in my generation of tangential possibilities. So please show me what you've got in mind and we can take it apart and decide whether shows promise.

    This is no time to stop being a radical.
    But what does that even mean; go to war?

    They're trying to make Trump look like the only option.
    What are the others, besides Biden, etc.?

    Why would you help them do it?
    And there's your error, assuming I'm helping the scoundrels. And I wrote, and apparently you missed it, I fully expect Trump to do it to us. That is my assumption going in so that I refrain from unrealistically optimistic expectations. Anything less that a full-on buttsex attack would leave us in no worse a position than we already enjoy. And don't take that too literally; I'm trying to have a sense of humor about all this nastiness. Sometimes it gets me through my days.


    They're trying to make this such a high-stakes cycle of their lesser evil game that we say, we won't make you fool us any more. Take our constitution and our rights -- please. Biden is a toothless boogieman. One look and you know he won't last.
    Fine, but you seem to be evading a central point that Biden is a sock-puppet. Theye have their hands way up his bum and if it won't be Biden, it will be someone else. This whole circus turns on the assumption that Trump was indeed and outsider, that he cannot be bought, and that he cannot be bullied or otherwise intimidated. It may be real, it maybe theater. We won't know until...

    It's a high stakes game. And as @Anti Federalist noted in another thread, they've never been more vulnerable. Ever. Certainly Trump-flavored fascism will make the remainder of your days more comfortable than this Biden Soviet is doing, but I prefer to think of the children. Some of them do deserve better.
    I agree that they are vulnerable, but it becomes real only if we come together in sufficient mass and we ACT in the right ways. As things stand, and as I mentioned just above, we just seem to have no gumption to get it up and stick to a commitment. We seem to be so rotted with corruption for convenience and ease, we just don't want to rock the boat. Wouldn't want to lose access to tinder, eh?

    They are only vulnerable if enough of us do the rirght things, and thus far I see no hint of that happening. So if I'm supposed to be dancing down the avenue with a boner, you're going to have tell my why.

    Our best bet is mass disobedience, but we'd rather sit at our terminals and curse Eville Conservatives or Eville Liberals, wasting our energies underscoring our differences, rather than emphasizing our commonalities. How does one talk to a frothing lefty whose only desire is that a cop shoot you dead where you stand and that your children die long and freakishly agonized deaths of cancer? What do you do with your fellow travelers who say all the right words in the right order, but won't get their fat asses out of the recliner? As I've said many times before, the one thing for which I must give the left due credit is that they get out of their moms' basements and they burn down entire cities. That's commitment and dedication to ACT, something thoe who claim to love liberty do not seem to have in common with their mortal foes.

    So let's have it: what is the plan? I'm always ready to learn something new and be proven an idiot.

    Thanks in advance.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    I see here a fair amount of bile and outright hatred of Trump. I understand why and I have my own doubts, but riding around town on the "I Hate Trump" bandwagon is an unproductive tactic. If you need to vent, go to the back 40, set up targets, and break out the 50BMG. Ranting about the insufficiencies of Trump is a grade-A waste of time.


    We are in a fight for our lives, figuratively and possibly physically, depending on which of the paranoid conspiracy speculations to which you subscribe. Standing on principles in the way of a purist such that the perfect becomes the enemy of the "will have to do under the circumstances", is a highly self-defeating approach. Stand on uch if you absolutely must, but as your purity leads you to the gas chamber, remember what I wrote here on this day.

    There is principle and there is pragmatism. The sweet spot on any given day and under a given set of circumstances lies between the two. This is the essence of the art of living, and the art of war. My inner purist is with the others 100% regarding Trump. My inner pragmatist has taken a 2x4 and knocked the purist mostly stupid for the sake of not dying on the wrong hill. I provisionally support Trump because we the people are painted into a very tight corner, the alternative choices posing a far more remote chance of helping us out. It's trite and it is as sad as the devil bawling his eyes out a rock in Georgia, but Trump is by all appearances the lesser evil.

    And so we are left with the paltry choices of Biden, some ain't-gonna-win-no-matter-how-hard-we-vote third party candidate, Trump, giving up entirely and going home and blowing our brains out for despair, or going to hot warfare against Theire minions in the United States. None of these options are particularly appetizing, I think many here would agree. But Trump is, again to all appearances, by far the least of the evils presented to us for choice. And if the appearances are false in the ways and to the degrees we might call "worst case", then we are sore-$#@!ed and reduced to the choices of capitulation or hot war and nothing we do otherwise will count for anything good.

    As a practical measure, and given the reality of the unenviable position into which we have allowed ourselves to be maneuvered by malevolent interests, and further given that we cannot know for certain the cloth from which the Donald is cut, he remains the current best hope for any return to a lesser state of servitude. Again, if he proves to be something very much other than what he advertises, then we are screwed to the barn door no worse than if we choose otherwise. We know Biden will continue to pile-drive us into the dust, and IMO war is the option of absolute last resort, to be chosen only if it becomes clear that Trump is leading us down the garden path.

    I say support Trump with the full expectation that he is going to do the BOHICA tango on us. At that point we have nothing to lose but our cell phones and any crumbs tossed our way might be seen at least as a move in the right direction... maybe. Sitting this one out: loser. Voting otherwise: demonstrated loser. Going to war: almost vanishingly small likelihood we have to sand for it, and it would still be premature.

    Given what we have allowed Themme to do to us, and we are all guilty of it, Trump is the only choice that is even cosmetically promising not to make things worse.

    Be practical and have your inner pragmatist work your inner purist over with a soft iron wire until the latter gets really quiet because we don't need to hear from him a whole lot at the moment. If we can make for better days, and I'm very dubious that we can at this point, then we will want his counsel in order that we do our best not to become that which we claim to despise and hate.

    If ever there was a time in American history to get smart, it is now. As bad as things stand today, you will really hate what will be coming if we do not at least hold the barbarians at the gates.

    Your choice.

    It always was.

    Mortem proditoribus


    Mortem tyrannis
    Amen brother, couldn't agree more

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I can’t wait to hear the excuses this time.

    In case you missed it:




    In case you missed this too:




    Next, you’ll be kissing up to the likes of her:





    Debbie Lesko Voted YES on H.R. 3935 FAA Reauthorization 07/20/2023

    https://thenewamerican.com/freedom-i...lator/l000589/
    RFK Jr. Pretends Not to Know Intel Agency FISA Game


    There are three basic options for this response from RFK Jr. (1) He really is not that intelligent, and doesn’t know of what he speaks. (2) He knows the full background context and is pretending not to know. (3) He’s working on behalf of an alternate interest.

    The reason is simple, the last reauthorization of the FISA-702 process took place in December/January of 2017/2018. At the time of the issue you might remember the intense debate that encompassed what was called the “Nunes memo”. The House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence (HPSCI) Chairman Devin Nunes had written a memo outlining the contents of the FISA application used against Carter Page. The Intelligence Community wanted to keep the information about the FISA application hidden from public review.
    Devin Nunes’ memo was designated “Top Secret Compartmented Intelligence” (TSCI) by those who wanted it to remain hidden. Nunes was asking President Trump to use his declassification authority to remove the classified status, so that the American people could read how the DOJ, CIA, FBI and ODNI constructed a fraudulent FISA application to conduct political surveillance on Donald Trump.
    Keep in mind, on March 17, 2017, SSCI Vice Chairman Mark Warner leaked a full and unredacted copy of the FISA application to the media. Three days later, on March 20th, FBI Director James Comey admitted during public testimony that Donald Trump was the subject of an active counterintelligence investigation.

    Warner and Comey were running an operation using DC media to get the momentum they needed for a Special Counsel investigation. The SC investigation was needed to cover up the activity of the DOJ, FBI, NSD, ODNI and SSCI during the 2016 election cycle. Every element of the intelligence apparatus in DC was opposed to the efforts of Nunes and Trump to expose the unlawful targeting effort.
    To get the Nunes memo declassified, both President Trump and Devin Nunes used the leverage of FISA-702 reauthorization to force the IC to declassify it. If the ODNI, FBI and DOJ did not agree to declassify the memo and make it public, then 702 would be allowed to expire, and the IC would lose their currency.
    It worked. The DNI, FBI and DOJ acquiesced to the memo declassification. Then they worked diligently to undermine it.



    That’s how they roll.

    The FBI is to America in 2024, what the Soviet FSB was to Russia in 1984. A fully weaponized government inversion is underway within the United States.
    Either Robert Kennedy Jr. is clueless (doubtful), or he’s pretending not to know what DC does with their power (likely).
    Yes, there is a lot of irony within his pretenses. Then again, he’s a Kennedy.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    To get the Nunes memo declassified, both President Trump and Devin Nunes used the leverage of FISA-702 reauthorization to force the IC to declassify it. If the ODNI, FBI and DOJ did not agree to declassify the memo and make it public, then 702 would be allowed to expire, and the IC would lose their currency.
    It worked.
    So, the fruits and nuts in the treehouse say that Trump screwed us on FISA so he could expose something that agencies did to him personally? And you're presenting that to us as if it's a good excuse?

    And yet, during the Florida Trump search, you said the president can declassify anything at any time. So, if he had them, and was the sitting president, he could just release them, and didn't need to screw us first. Right?

    And you think you can have it both ways, of course. Isn't it convenient how facts can change 180° to fit various treehouse narratives?

    Obviously TDS is indeed obvious.
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 04-21-2024 at 01:10 AM. Reason: edit after thread split

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    So, the fruits and nuts in the treehouse say that Trump screwed us on FISA so he could expose something that agencies did to him personally? And you're presenting that to us as if it's a good excuse?

    And yet, during the Florida Trump search, you said the president can declassify anything at any time. So, if he had them, and was the sitting president, he could just release them, and didn't need to screw us first. Right?

    And you think you can have it both ways, of course. Isn't it convenient how facts can change 180° to fit various treehouse narratives?

    Obviously TDS is indeed obvious.
    When he was in office he had to deal with the power structure or risk being convicted and removed in one of the phony impeachments or assassinated.
    On his way out he had the right to declassify anything he wanted and no longer had to deal with the power structure.

    And it's not "something that agencies did to him personally", it was exposing a coup against the Republic but the deepstate so that the people would wake up to our situation before it was too late.

    Yes, your TDS is obvious.
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 04-21-2024 at 01:10 AM. Reason: edit after thread split
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, your TDS is obvious.
    Because I don't buy excuses even more complex and convoluted than leftist memes, I'm deranged.

    Yes, yes, of course. Whatever.

  32. #28
    To put my perspective in another way...

    It's great to get the house in order. Add this, paint that, rewire the other. But when you have a raging kitchen fire, that has to be priority one, or else all the rest counts for naught. This is the situation in which we find ourselves in America at this time. The positive reality is that the kitchen is burning, the fire is gaining, and we are failing to use the Ansul (fire suppression system). That is the hard, ugly, incomprehensible truth of our reality. When you blow the Ansul, the kitchen becomes a mess, but it is the lesser evil to having the house burn to the foundation blocks. That is why I give >>provisional<< support to Trump. To do otherwise is to give up all hope and go tits-up as a matter of choice. My expectation is that he will fail us. My hope is that he will not. But if he does, then we all of us need to decide on what we will DO in the wake of yet another yanking of our chain. This is prudent, circumspect consideration. Holding one's breath, stamping their feet in tantrum is not the way. If in desperation all you find before you is a single possible alternative in a process that is going to move forward regardless whether you participate, and that alternative is known to be a possible fake, you go with that, rather than the choice you already know will put you over the wood.

    Dropping out because you don't like the choices before you is the response of a spoiled toddler, I am sorry to say. Be a strategist. I consider what is before me coldly as the analyst that I am. I see feces displayed for my consumption and am displeased. But my analysis does reveal difference, and it is difference that drives truths we can use to best effect, which at this point is in fact and indeed the best for which we can hope AT THIS TIME. Unicorns are not going to appear suddenly, pooing out love and peace, prosperity, freedom, and respect for all human rights.

    The world is a statistical place. EVERYTHING numerically non-trivial has a statistical nature and the statistical reality before right here, right now as I write these words is that the cohesion necessary to toss the tyrant, his acolytes, and his minions into the dustbin does not exist. Tomorrow morning it will not exist, nor next week or next month, or in November. The American people will continue to walk the path of manifold corruptions and enough will go to the polls to make the process we all despise happen. That is to say, the $#@!ing kitchen is ablaze and the rest of the house is about to go up with it. There is no affordable opportunity to goof around; the problem must be addressed, quickly and effectively. Time to turn off will come later, but for now we get to work with the process ON ITS TERMS. We do so because OUR TERMS don't count for $#@! at this moment. That will hopefully change, but at this point we must engage in triage, and it says get to the Ansul FAST.

    Nobody here wants freedom more than do I. I am an adept analyst, if I date flatter myself, and I see the statistical reality as it stands before us. It is grim, and taking gratuitously supercilious measures that will not effectively address the most immediate problem at hand is a fool's errand. Stop the fire, no matter how distasteful you may find the process. Save the house. Then clean and rebuild.

    You may dislike your neighbor down the road, but when he comes to help put out your kitchen fire, are you going to turn him away?

    War makes for strange bedfellows. This is war. Get over your delicate sensibilities, adopt at least a soldier's posture, if not one of a warrior, and get the job done.

    None of this is to suggest we not do the other things. By all means do them. Just don't fall to the fallacy of the false-dichotomy, believing it has to be the one or the other. Theye are smart, contrary to popular belief. Theye are clever, are effectively funded without limit, and are viciously and mindlessly treacherous. Theye have every advantage, or did you think that the protesters who effectively razed downtown Portland do it all for free? How did all those illegals walk from places like Guatemala to the California border? If they are in such dire straits, where in hell did they get the money to eat on the way? Did any of you not notice how many of them are great big giant-fat endomorphs? Did you notice how many have cell phones? If it takes them two months to walk, how in hell were they paying their phone bills?

    My point in that last bit is to underscore that Theye have money to burn and can buy the corrupt who are eager to whore in any way Theye dictate, so long as it pays. They will riot, pillage, rape, rob, murder. Name it, pay the cash, and it is done. That is what we are up against, so once again I respectfully, if strongly suggest it is time we put on our big boy pants, get seriously strategic in our thinking, which means great circumspection, dispense with delicacy of feelings, and fight the good fight on all fronts because those $#@!ers are playing for real and they will see you in chains, or on a slab if you allow Themme any quarter. Make Themme sweat and toil for every scrap they take from you, and that includes the phony baloney, horse$#@! political process we know to be a scam, and yet what Theye use to such devastating effect against us.

    I hope I have been clear.
    freedomisobvious.blogspot.com

    There is only one correct way: freedom. All other solutions are non-solutions.

    It appears that artificial intelligence is at least slightly superior to natural stupidity.

    Our words make us the ghosts that we are.

    Convincing the world he didn't exist was the Devil's second greatest trick; the first was convincing us that God didn't exist.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    I hope I have been clear.
    You just posted a wall of text that seems premised on the assumption that if your kitchen were on fire, you could count on Trump to pee on the flames.

    But this is a thread about him ordering someone to do something that he could have done six years ago, but didn't.

    No. I'm not at all sure of the concept. Trump and Biden are cops on the same squad. One's playing good cop and the other is playing bad cop. But the bad cop has such advanced Alzheimer's that he'll be lucky to make next January under any circumstances.

    Nobody thinks Biden's going to legitimately win anything. You're all just waiting for the even more obvious electoral shenanigans so we can go to the Capitol and demand Trump be made Mussolini.

    You really think they won't comply?

    Lesser evil? Lesser evils are anachronisms. Washington, D.C. hasn't seen a lesser evil since 1981. Welcome to the twenty-first century where the evil only escalates. Wonder how that happens?
    Last edited by acptulsa; 04-14-2024 at 08:07 AM.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    You just posted a wall of text that seems premised on the assumption that if your kitchen were on fire, you could count on Trump to pee on the flames.

    But this is a thread about him ordering someone to do something that he could have done six years ago, but didn't.

    No. I'm not at all sure of the concept. Trump and Biden are cops on the same squad. One's playing good cop and the other is playing bad cop. But the bad cop has such advanced Alzheimer's that he'll be lucky to make next January under any circumstances.

    Nobody thinks Biden's going to legitimately win anything. You're all just waiting for the even more obvious electoral shenanigans so we can go to the Capitol and demand Trump be made Mussolini.

    You really think they won't comply?

    Lesser evil? Lesser evils are anachronisms. Washington, D.C. hasn't seen a lesser evil since 1981. Welcome to the twenty-first century where the evil only escalates.
    Nailed it!

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