Are American libertarians too pessimistic?

[Occam's Banana]

https://twitter.com/BobMurphyEcon/st...46257927074189


Are American Libertarians Unduly Pessimistic?
https://odysee.com/@mises:1/are-amer...rians-unduly:1
{Mises Media | 05 April 2024}

Nick Gillespie, editor-at-large for Reason, recently got into a friendly dispute with Bob over whether American libertarians were being too pessimistic. He joins Bob to make the case for optimism, while Bob demurs.

Chapters:

00:00 - Raffle Winner
00:35 - Introduction
01:32 - Should Libertarians be Pessimistic?
03:20 - Nick on Optimism
10:45 - Bob on Pessimism
17:46 - The Growth of Government
23:48 - Are we Losing Freedom?
31:57 - Predictions for the Next Five Years
38:59 - Justice, Rule of Law, and Donald Trump
44:00 - Conclusions

[Bourbon Democrat]

They both make good points. I have been reading both men for over 20 years.

I sure wish I had Gillespie's optimism. The last 23.5 years in the wake of 9/11 have been crazy, the last 10 years have been insane, and the least 3 have been things that cause revolutions. I believe the American people have largely forgotten what liberty is, and the Gen Z youngsters have never really known liberty. Sad.

[PAF]

Are American libertarians too pessimistic?

Unmasking Democracy: A Moral Virtue or a Flawed Tool?

[Okie RP fan]

They both make good points. I have been reading both men for over 20 years.

I sure wish I had Gillespie's optimism. The last 23.5 years in the wake of 9/11 have been crazy, the last 10 years have been insane, and the least 3 have been things that cause revolutions. I believe the American people have largely forgotten what liberty is, and the Gen Z youngsters have never really known liberty. Sad.

Gen Z is going to end up being the most different of the previous generations going back to at least the Boomers.
The boomers through millennials still have memories of certain things like people working with their hands, time just before modern cell phone adoption, playing outside, there only being 1-2 "weird" kids in class instead of half, etc.

This is why personalities like Jordan Peterson, who are apparently making inroads with young men in particular, are so critical right now (like him or dislike him, doesn't matter - he's telling young men "there's another way out there...").
It's for that same reason that the left hates people like Peterson and want him gone: because he's pulling a lot of people out from their communist hypnotism. They've put in a lot of work over a long period of time in our schools and culture only to see a couple guys come in and tell them "modern life is fake and gay. Real life is this way."

[Okie RP fan]

As for the actual thread itself...

Libertarianism in America is, to be plain and simple, a joke. We cannot get out of our own way and we'll never be taken seriously as a legitimate party. And thus, we will never wield the power necessary from a wide angle in order to advance liberty.

I'm probably going to be changing my party affiliation at some point with how the LP convention went this year. I honestly don't wish to be associated with it at this point.

Edit: of course, I'm not suggesting any of the parties are worth associating with. It really is just a giant mess right now.

[acptulsa]

Libertarianism in America is, to be plain and simple, a joke.

The LP has comedy value, to be sure. We have seen the enemy, and don't know if it's the CIA or if it's our own autistic asses.

But I think the conversation was about, or more about, small-l libertarianism as a philosophy. And on that score, I think the old adage that it's always darkest before the dawn has merit, because excess tends to cause a backlash. They're trying to get us to go full totalitarian because of the problems they created. That's why they have reacted so strongly to Ron Paul and ourselves, and have worked so hard at usurping the Tea Party and other things.

All we can do is keep broadcasting the fact that the government caused all those problems, usually deliberately, and see if that allows us to play one "side" off against the other.

We have a real chance to do that, if we can avoid getting caught up in their artificial divide, and remember that the lesser evil is still more evil than ever.

[Okie RP fan]

The LP has comedy value, to be sure. We have seen the enemy, and don't know if it's the CIA or if it's our own autistic asses.

But I think the conversation was about, or more about, small-l libertarianism as a philosophy. And on that score, I think the old adage that it's always darkest before the dawn has merit, because excess tends to cause a backlash. They're trying to get us to go full totalitarian because of the problems they created. That's why they have reacted so strongly to Ron Paul and ourselves, and have worked so hard at usurping the Tea Party and other things.

All we can do is keep broadcasting the fact that the government caused all those problems, usually deliberately, and see if that allows us to play one "side" off against the other.

We have a real chance to do that, if we can avoid getting caught up in their artificial divide, and remember that the lesser evil is still more evil than ever.

Ah, in that case sure, small l still has a little bit of backbone and merit but I do think that's waning every day. The more I go out in public and see the creatures that want more government in their lives (and thus ours), the more hopeless I tend to become. So yea, maybe a lot of us are pessimistic.

I admit I didn't listen to the conversation.

[idiom]

Gen Z is going to end up being the most different of the previous generations going back to at least the Boomers.
The boomers through millennials still have memories of certain things like people working with their hands, time just before modern cell phone adoption, playing outside, there only being 1-2 "weird" kids in class instead of half, etc.

This is why personalities like Jordan Peterson, who are apparently making inroads with young men in particular, are so critical right now (like him or dislike him, doesn't matter - he's telling young men "there's another way out there...").
It's for that same reason that the left hates people like Peterson and want him gone: because he's pulling a lot of people out from their communist hypnotism. They've put in a lot of work over a long period of time in our schools and culture only to see a couple guys come in and tell them "modern life is fake and gay. Real life is this way."

As soon as freedom started to include actual personal freedom away from state imposed gender, JP tacked into statism really really hard.