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Thread: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse

  1. #121


    There's another reason to keep the federal government's nose out of it. Nobody can delay a project like Washington can.




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  3. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by vita3 View Post
    Anti-Fed or anybody else following the details,

    Who exactly would get the $$Billion+ Marine Insurance Claim?

    Maersk?
    @vita3

    I can't say for sure, because the list is so long.

    If BP's payouts over Deepwater Horizon are any example, every single entity that can claim any kind of hardship will be in line for part of that money, from the state and feds, all the way to every single shipper that had so much as one container on that ship, to the families of those that died.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  4. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    @vita3

    I can't say for sure, because the list is so long.

    If BP's payouts over Deepwater Horizon are any example, every single entity that can claim any kind of hardship will be in line for part of that money, from the state and feds, all the way to every single shipper that had so much as one container on that ship, to the families of those that died.
    AF, refresh my memory.

    When the ship blocked the Suez Canal a couple of years ago, wasn't there a possible scenario where each individual entity that had items being shipped on the ship were possibly going to have to pony up for the damage claims?

    Or did I hallucinate this?

  5. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by sparebulb View Post
    I genuinely think that Alex is a great salesman, regardless of whether it is dick pills or anything else.

    I also think that either you are really Alex's mom or you have an unhealthy attachment to people you don't know.
    You're lying about something you don't know anything about to disparage a person and I'm the unhealthy one?
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  6. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by sparebulb View Post
    I genuinely think that Alex is a great salesman, regardless of whether it is dick pills or anything else.

    I also think that either you are really Alex's mom or you have an unhealthy attachment to people you don't know.
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    A parasocial interaction ... becomes a parasocial relationship after repeated exposure to the media persona causes the media user to develop illusions of intimacy, friendship, and identification.
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  7. #126
    Dali Timeline from Data Recorder in Striking Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, March 26, 2024
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rxKQ8Tr94s
    {What is Going on With Shipping? | 29 March 2024}

    In this episode - maritime historian at Campbell University (@campbelledu) and former merchant mariner - discusses the timeline released by the NTSB from the Dali's Vessel Data Recorder and lays out some of the questions, issues that have been raised, and questions that need to be answered.

    [video timestamps:]

    00:00 - Intro & NTSB footage
    02:23 - Why did MSC Toronto sailed with Tugs?
    03:03 - How to Start a Ship's Main Engine
    03:59 - How to Steer A Ship
    04:46 - Why No Tugs with Dali?
    08:04 - Bridge Collapse in 1980?
    09:14 - Vessel Data Recorder Replay-Power Loss
    13:07 - Did the Emergency Diesel Generator Activate?
    17:26 - Dropping Anchor
    22:26 - Why does Dali turn Left?
    26:26 - Questions for NTSB?



    [links & references:]

    Marine Traffic
    - https://www.marinetraffic.com

    Full video | Francis Scott Key bridge collapses in Baltimore
    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEkRjlSgIIQ

    NTSB Timeline Reveals Crucial Minutes Leading Up to Baltimore Bridge Strike
    - https://gcaptain.com/ntsb-timeline-r...bridge-strike/

    NTSB B-Roll - Hazardous Material Investigators and Engineers Aboard the Cargo Ship Dali
    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIA5uH-i08I

    How To Start The Ship's Main Engine: From Preparation to Full Away
    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mFmCxOjY_A

    How We Steer A Cargo Ship | Life At Sea
    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T-wFfPm37U

    Why No Tugs MV Dali/Key Bridge Baltimore
    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsdZVp0opsQ

    Why No Tugs Follow- Up (Pt.2)
    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiLT2JHeBOQ

    Spirit of Norfolk Lost; Spar Lyra Not Under Command; Victory Rover, Z-ONE & others to the Rescue!
    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65-yG6Jw9S0

    Ships emergency diesel generator and switchboard
    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GGfTqUJG3A

    How to let go an anchor - Anchor dropping Step by step procedure
    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHyCj7q0pzI

    What's Next at the Bridge Collapse Site?
    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aozzrK06ys

    How Did A Ship Destroy Baltimore's Key Bridge?
    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlIhoxIxM30

  8. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Dali Timeline from Data Recorder in Striking Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, March 26, 2024
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rxKQ8Tr94s
    {What is Going on With Shipping? | 29 March 2024}

    In this episode - maritime historian at Campbell University (@campbelledu) and former merchant mariner - discusses the timeline released by the NTSB from the Dali's Vessel Data Recorder and lays out some of the questions, issues that have been raised, and questions that need to be answered.

    [video timestamps:]

    00:00 - Intro & NTSB footage
    02:23 - Why did MSC Toronto sailed with Tugs?
    03:03 - How to Start a Ship's Main Engine
    03:59 - How to Steer A Ship
    04:46 - Why No Tugs with Dali?
    08:04 - Bridge Collapse in 1980?
    09:14 - Vessel Data Recorder Replay-Power Loss
    13:07 - Did the Emergency Diesel Generator Activate?
    17:26 - Dropping Anchor
    22:26 - Why does Dali turn Left?
    26:26 - Questions for NTSB?



    [links & references:]

    Marine Traffic
    - https://www.marinetraffic.com

    Full video | Francis Scott Key bridge collapses in Baltimore
    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEkRjlSgIIQ

    NTSB Timeline Reveals Crucial Minutes Leading Up to Baltimore Bridge Strike
    - https://gcaptain.com/ntsb-timeline-r...bridge-strike/

    NTSB B-Roll - Hazardous Material Investigators and Engineers Aboard the Cargo Ship Dali
    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIA5uH-i08I

    How To Start The Ship's Main Engine: From Preparation to Full Away
    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mFmCxOjY_A

    How We Steer A Cargo Ship | Life At Sea
    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T-wFfPm37U

    Why No Tugs MV Dali/Key Bridge Baltimore
    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsdZVp0opsQ

    Why No Tugs Follow- Up (Pt.2)
    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiLT2JHeBOQ

    Spirit of Norfolk Lost; Spar Lyra Not Under Command; Victory Rover, Z-ONE & others to the Rescue!
    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65-yG6Jw9S0

    Ships emergency diesel generator and switchboard
    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GGfTqUJG3A

    How to let go an anchor - Anchor dropping Step by step procedure
    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHyCj7q0pzI

    What's Next at the Bridge Collapse Site?
    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aozzrK06ys

    How Did A Ship Destroy Baltimore's Key Bridge?
    - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlIhoxIxM30

    Great Video. Thanks for sharing.

    So the ship's emergency generator which is relatively small (about the size of a truck engine) is tied to just a few systems, one of which is control of the rudder.

    So the question is why it appears they have no rudder control despite the emergency generator being on. And that with no rudder control, the current coming out of Curtis Bay into the Patapsco could have been enough to turn the bow into the concrete supports of the bridge. Had they had rudder control, since the boat was moving forward about 9 mph, they could have easily passed under the bridge even if the motor was not working.

  9. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by charrob View Post
    Great Video. Thanks for sharing.

    So the ship's emergency generator which is relatively small (about the size of a truck engine) is tied to just a few systems, one of which is control of the rudder.

    So the question is why it appears they have no rudder control despite the emergency generator being on. And that with no rudder control, the current coming out of Curtis Bay into the Patapsco could have been enough to turn the bow into the concrete supports of the bridge. Had they had rudder control, since the boat was moving forward about 9 mph, they could have easily passed under the bridge even if the motor was not working.
    I misspoke earlier in this thread, but this is important to note:

    On a lot of older vessels the e-gen will not supply power to steering engine.

    But even more important to note, on any modern vessel that has "Z - drive" or "azipod" propulsion, you will have no steering, or more correctly, thrust control, on e-gen power.

    That includes almost all cruise ships.

    That said, I think they lost a main 480V buss that, even when the e-gen kicked on, it did not apply power to the downstream circuits and just tripped right back off.

    Or, the electric powered bow thruster overloaded it and tripped it off, although that normally would not be powered by the e-gen either.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan



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  11. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I misspoke earlier in this thread, but this is important to note:

    On a lot of older vessels the e-gen will not supply power to steering engine.

    But even more important to note, on any modern vessel that has "Z - drive" or "azipod" propulsion, you will have no steering, or more correctly, thrust control, on e-gen power.

    That includes almost all cruise ships.

    That said, I think they lost a main 480V buss that, even when the e-gen kicked on, it did not apply power to the downstream circuits and just tripped right back off.

    Or, the electric powered bow thruster overloaded it and tripped it off, although that normally would not be powered by the e-gen either.
    Thanks. I don’t know anything about big container ships, but it seems rudder control is most important even if the engine isn’t running: why would a ship builder not have an emergency generator tied into powering control of the rudder?

  12. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by charrob View Post
    Thanks. I don’t know anything about big container ships, but it seems rudder control is most important even if the engine isn’t running: why would a ship builder not have an emergency generator tied into powering control of the rudder?
    Like I noted before, it's cheaper.

    On the type of vessels I ran, the four main gens supplied high voltage propulsion power as well as ship's service power and were segregated into two spaces, the idea being that it would be almost impossible that both plants, 2 mains, one main thruster, one or two bow or stern thrusters on each one, with totally separate distribution and control systems, in totally separate spaces, each with its own alarms and fire suppression, could fail at the same time.

    On very old ships, steam provides power to the steering engine.

    The first electric hydraulics units drew too much power to be hooked up to the e-gen.

    More modern designs, like this vessel do have them tied in.

    But if the distribution system failed, it would not make any difference, no power would get to the steering engine anyway.

    And that is what I think happened here.

    The same thing happened to that cruise ship in the Gulf of Mexico about ten years ago, where everybody got stuck onboard for days and days on a dark ship with no lights, water, AC or sanitary systems.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  13. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Like I noted before, it's cheaper.

    On the type of vessels I ran, the four main gens supplied high voltage propulsion power as well as ship's service power and were segregated into two spaces, the idea being that it would be almost impossible that both plants, 2 mains, one main thruster, one or two bow or stern thrusters on each one, with totally separate distribution and control systems, in totally separate spaces, each with its own alarms and fire suppression, could fail at the same time.

    On very old ships, steam provides power to the steering engine.

    The first electric hydraulics units drew too much power to be hooked up to the e-gen.

    More modern designs, like this vessel do have them tied in.

    But if the distribution system failed, it would not make any difference, no power would get to the steering engine anyway.

    And that is what I think happened here.

    The same thing happened to that cruise ship in the Gulf of Mexico about ten years ago, where everybody got stuck onboard for days and days on a dark ship with no lights, water, AC or sanitary systems.
    Thanks.

  14. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    @vita3

    I can't say for sure, because the list is so long.

    If BP's payouts over Deepwater Horizon are any example, every single entity that can claim any kind of hardship will be in line for part of that money, from the state and feds, all the way to every single shipper that had so much as one container on that ship, to the families of those that died.

    Thanks. I wonder if they study the art of Disaster Capitalism in the Ivy's?

  15. #133
    MV Dali and the Francis Scott Key Bridge | March 31 Update & Who Pays for the Salvage?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wim-_Q_59o
    {What is Going on With Shipping? | 31 March 2024}

    Who Pays?

    In this episode - maritime historian at Campbell University (@campbelledu) and former merchant mariner - provides an update on MV Dali and discusses the insurance ramifications of the accident.

    [video timestamps:]

    00:00 - Update on MV Dali and Key Bridge
    03:36 - Review of Power Outage on Dali
    07:15 - Dali Sitting on Gas Lines
    10:18 - Insurance Implications
    19:08 - $3.1 Billion in Insurance!



    [links & references:]

    Key Bridge Response 2024
    - https://www.keybridgeresponse2024.com/

    gCaptain - Baltimore Bridge Collapse
    - https://gcaptain.com/tag/baltimore-bridge-collapse/

    Marine Traffic
    - https://www.marinetraffic.com/

    Baltimore port bridge collapse: Global ocean carriers put U.S. companies on hook for urgent cargo pickup
    - https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...up/ar-BB1kDY9W

    Dali Cargo owners face massive costs if general average is declared
    - https://theloadstar.com/dali-cargo-o...e-is-declared/

    International Group of P&I Clubs
    - https://www.igpandi.org/reinsurance/

  16. #134
    gCaptain - Baltimore Bridge Collapse
    - https://gcaptain.com/tag/baltimore-bridge-collapse/
    Bookmark that site.

    It's the "go to" place online for accurate information on shipping, vessel and maritime related issues.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  17. #135
    Told you so.

    No.

    $#@! you, no.

    Marxists and Jews and leftists and queeers and coloreds, all of you, no.

    You've taken enough of my history, you have scrubbed enough of my past away.

    No, you do not get this.

    (Now, of course, that's just internet blowhardery on my part. Of course they'll get the name changed, they'll have no real opposition to it. White people are too enstupidated, too disillusioned, too demoralized, too disorganized, too sick from the mind poison, too busy figuring out how to kill their offspring and too weak to lift a finger in their own defense as the momentum of genocide speeds up all around them.)



    https://www.yahoo.com/news/african-a...154659041.html
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 04-10-2024 at 10:12 AM.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  18. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post


    Is that because Biden is footing the bill on the taxpayers, and maybe they are looking for ways to reduce the expense?

    j/k
    ____________

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    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)



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  20. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Dali Timeline from Data Recorder in Striking Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, March 26, 2024
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rxKQ8Tr94s
    {What is Going on With Shipping? | 29 March 2024}

    In this episode - maritime historian at Campbell University (@campbelledu) and former merchant mariner - discusses the timeline released by the NTSB from the Dali's Vessel Data Recorder and lays out some of the questions, issues that have been raised, and questions that need to be answered.
    ...
    Good video, answers many questions.

    - Mainly, the ship turned towards the tower because of the current (tide going out) from a channel coming from the right side of the ship. They had no rudder control, and no time to put the ship into reverse. Dropping the anchor probably had no effect.

    - Underwater cable/pipe damage: Sounds like the ship is now sitting on a high pressure gas line. Damage unknown, other than the fact that it is not leaking right now. Makes moving the ship a little tricky.
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    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  21. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by charrob View Post
    Great Video. Thanks for sharing.

    So the ship's emergency generator which is relatively small (about the size of a truck engine) is tied to just a few systems, one of which is control of the rudder.

    So the question is why it appears they have no rudder control despite the emergency generator being on. And that with no rudder control, the current coming out of Curtis Bay into the Patapsco could have been enough to turn the bow into the concrete supports of the bridge. Had they had rudder control, since the boat was moving forward about 9 mph, they could have easily passed under the bridge even if the motor was not working.
    That part was interesting, and explained a lot.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  22. #139

  23. #140
    Cyber attack?

    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

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    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  24. #141
    Interesting she brings up critical infrastructure and talks about the Sallisaw bridge. The navigation channel is important to heartland farmers mainly to export grain. But the bridge itself is Interstate 40. That's a big deal.

  25. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I'm guessing three to six weeks to get the ship channel open again.
    Told you so:

    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  26. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged View Post
    Are you of the professional opinion that this is nothing more than an accident?
    Yes.

    It was at the time it occurred, and remains my professional opinion, as a Master Mariner of over 40 years experience, today.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  27. #144

    Why is media not saying obvious? Ship Dali turned hard right under rudder and rammed bridge

    Power goes off, official story says ship drifts toward critical support column. But when the power goes back on (lights on) the ship pulls a hard right aligning itself with the column in a precise fashion. Power goes off again for a moment, then back on as the ship throttles forward.

    Media muddies the issue of whether or not there was rudder when the lights went back on. Of course there was. The turn was too sharp to be drift. Clear as day this was an attack. Port critical for farm equipment and fertilizer coming into US. Food supply chain attack.

    Last edited by James_Madison_Lives; 05-04-2024 at 01:45 PM.



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  29. #145
    Ugh.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  30. #146

  31. #147
    They are kicking butt picking bridge up, dredging & opening lanes imo

    We ain’t total bitches when it comes to this stuff

  32. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by vita3 View Post
    They are kicking butt picking bridge up, dredging & opening lanes imo

    We ain’t total bitches when it comes to this stuff
    No, we are not.

    And when the ChiComs came to visit San Fran last year, they had all the drunks and hobos and addicts off the streets and all the $#@! washed off.

    And when a Pooh-bah comes to visit the border we can shut it down.

    We do not have to live like this.

    We live in squalor, crime, mountains of red tape, debt, endless war and anarcho-tyranny because our rulers want it that way.

    But it does not have to be that way, it could be turned around in a year.

    Why do we tolerate it?

    Why do we allow our living conditions to degrade this way?
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  33. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    No, we are not.

    And when the ChiComs came to visit San Fran last year, they had all the drunks and hobos and addicts off the streets and all the $#@! washed off.

    And when a Pooh-bah comes to visit the border we can shut it down.

    We do not have to live like this.

    We live in squalor, crime, mountains of red tape, debt, endless war and anarcho-tyranny because our rulers want it that way.

    But it does not have to be that way, it could be turned around in a year.

    Why do we tolerate it?

    Why do we allow our living conditions to degrade this way?
    https://twitter.com/EndWokeness/stat...80342001213745

    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  34. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I misspoke earlier in this thread, but this is important to note:

    On a lot of older vessels the e-gen will not supply power to steering engine.

    But even more important to note, on any modern vessel that has "Z - drive" or "azipod" propulsion, you will have no steering, or more correctly, thrust control, on e-gen power.

    That includes almost all cruise ships.

    That said, I think they lost a main 480V buss that, even when the e-gen kicked on, it did not apply power to the downstream circuits and just tripped right back off.

    Or, the electric powered bow thruster overloaded it and tripped it off, although that normally would not be powered by the e-gen either.
    The Dali is a modern ship built in 2015 by Hyundai. It definitely had rudder.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Dali

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