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Thread: DC circuit court rejects immunity for Trump, SCOTUS appeal is pending

  1. #1

    DC circuit court rejects immunity for Trump, SCOTUS appeal is pending

    THREAD: Trump indictment #3: 2020 election & January 6th [US / federal]



    An appeals court ruled Tuesday that former President Donald Trump does not have immunity in a case related to the 2020 presidential election.

    'Any executive immunity that may have protected him while he served as president no longer protects him against this prosecution,' the three-judge panel ruled unanimously, striking a blow for prosecutor Jack Smith.

    His case accuses Trump of using false claims of voter fraud to pressure lawmakers, Justice Department officials and then-Vice President Mike Pence to prevent certification of Joe Biden's election victory.

    It is the second time in as many months that judges have rejected Trump's argument that he is immune from prosecution for actions he took during his time in office and during the run up to the Jan. 6, 2021, assault on the U.S. Capitol.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-election.html
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 02-28-2024 at 07:36 PM. Reason: added link to related thread
    My two daughters and I were gang-raped by some of the Newcomers. It landed us in the hospital for 3 weeks as several bones were broken. I don't blame them, it was a sexual emergency and I wasn't about to go all white privilege and deny them the release they needed, especially after being stuck in a hotel for months. I see the Newcomers as family now. They are on our side and will help us stop Trump. It is a small price to pay. Anything but Trump.

    -GLP poster



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  3. #2
    I think if this is appealed to scotus, Trump could potentially win based on the past decisions and current makeup of scotus. Probably with some sort of limited scope though. Scotus has to consider that they can't make a future president have immunity for any action they took. I feel like Trump may get a pass on the Jan 6th case, but not the documents case or Georgia case. Who knows at this point?

  4. #3
    Just look at the photo of the 3 judges, and you understand what happened with their ruling. And 2 were appointed by Biden. Either way doesn't matter to me, if no immunity, where is the prosecution for Obama's extrajudicial killings of American citizens. Oh, he probably left no family members alive to complain and lodge a case against him. Every former president is a war criminal, where is their prosecution? The argument for immunity would be government stability over selective prosecution depending on which party remains in power.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  5. #4
    That fact that some Americans believe that the founding fathers intended for presidents to be literally above the law is a sign of the horrible state of education in this country.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    That fact that some Americans believe that the founding fathers intended for presidents to be literally above the law is a sign of the horrible state of education in this country.
    We are so beyond what the Founders intended it's practically irrelevant to even discuss their motivations and desires.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    We are so beyond what the Founders intended it's practically irrelevant to even discuss their motivations and desires.
    “Founders”… the Federalists who ratified a central constitution, or the Anti Federalists who rightly warned against it?
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    “Founders”… the Federalists who ratified a central constitution, or the Anti Federalists who rightly warned against it?
    Both groups can reasonably be labelled as Founders.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    That fact that some Americans believe that the founding fathers intended for presidents to be literally above the law is a sign of the horrible state of education in this country.
    Uh... no. That's not what's going on at all. In fact, this is a sign of YOUR horrible education.

    Just like you have to file charges prior to arresting or trying someone, there is a process in place for going after a President. It's called impeachment. That is the remedy for a President to be tried for high crimes or misdemeanors. Agree with it or not, the Founders anticipated that a President could commit crimes while in office and established a process to prosecute them. You're trying to rewrite that as "being above the law" is just idiotic.

    I'm not a Trump supporter at all, but I'm also aware of the political witch hunts happening... Perhaps our Founders were wise enough to prepare for that as well.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  11. #9
    I suppose we can go after Clinton, Bush and Obama for their crimes now??? Or is this exclusive for the orange man?
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    I suppose we can go after Clinton, Bush and Obama for their crimes now??? Or is this exclusive for the orange man?
    Isn't it amazing how MSM are quiet on the Clinton and Epstein leaks?

    Or how far the Media are protecting Hunter Biden despite the leaked images of Hunter Biden doing things that are illegal for president/PM family to do?


    If this were Trump on those images/documents the media wont be stopping talking about this for years.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    That fact that some Americans believe that the founding fathers intended for presidents to be literally above the law is a sign of the horrible state of education in this country.
    While you have Biden acting above the law currently with the air strikes in Iraq and Syria currently believing and thinking as if America owns the middle east.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    I suppose we can go after Clinton, Bush and Obama for their crimes now??? Or is this exclusive for the orange man?
    i certainly see no reason Ngo's helping people come into country illegally or Epstein's clients shouldn't be gone after.
    Do something Danke

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    I suppose we can go after Clinton, Bush and Obama for their crimes now??? Or is this exclusive for the orange man?
    I think that is what will make life difficult for scotus if this case makes it to them. They would have to bail Trump out of his legal problems with a narrow enough scope that future President can't just have immumity for anything.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Uh... no. That's not what's going on at all. In fact, this is a sign of YOUR horrible education.

    Just like you have to file charges prior to arresting or trying someone, there is a process in place for going after a President. It's called impeachment. That is the remedy for a President to be tried for high crimes or misdemeanors. Agree with it or not, the Founders anticipated that a President could commit crimes while in office and established a process to prosecute them. You're trying to rewrite that as "being above the law" is just idiotic.

    I'm not a Trump supporter at all, but I'm also aware of the political witch hunts happening... Perhaps our Founders were wise enough to prepare for that as well.
    Are you saying that inclusion of a process of impeachment in the Constitution means that the person convicted of an impeachment shall not be liable and subject to indictment, trial, judgment and punishment, according to law?
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    I suppose we can go after Clinton, Bush and Obama for their crimes now???
    I don't see why not.
    Last edited by Invisible Man; 02-06-2024 at 03:48 PM.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Uh... no. That's not what's going on at all. In fact, this is a sign of YOUR horrible education.

    Just like you have to file charges prior to arresting or trying someone, there is a process in place for going after a President. It's called impeachment. That is the remedy for a President to be tried for high crimes or misdemeanors. Agree with it or not, the Founders anticipated that a President could commit crimes while in office and established a process to prosecute them. You're trying to rewrite that as "being above the law" is just idiotic.

    I'm not a Trump supporter at all, but I'm also aware of the political witch hunts happening... Perhaps our Founders were wise enough to prepare for that as well.
    I've never liked the claim of immunity (for anyone) and, in Trump's case, I find it a weak defense in that I don't believe he's guilty of any crimes, at all (just stupidity and saying dumb stuff). Being innocent seems the more important thing to focus on.

    When any politician is guilty of a crime I don't think impeachment suffices because it doesn't carry a penalty other getting kicked out of office and I don't think I've ever read any founder's reasoning behind immunity. I understand that, in the political arena, impeachment or prosecution carries the risk (almost guarantee) that it has political motivations but don't see how that effects the accused committing crimes.
    My two daughters and I were gang-raped by some of the Newcomers. It landed us in the hospital for 3 weeks as several bones were broken. I don't blame them, it was a sexual emergency and I wasn't about to go all white privilege and deny them the release they needed, especially after being stuck in a hotel for months. I see the Newcomers as family now. They are on our side and will help us stop Trump. It is a small price to pay. Anything but Trump.

    -GLP poster



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    I've never liked the claim of immunity (for anyone) and, in Trump's case, I find it a weak defense in that I don't believe he's guilty of any crimes, at all (just stupidity and saying dumb stuff). Being innocent seems the more important thing to focus on.
    What would you do if the whole deep state was out to destroy you? I think the strategy is sound. Also its an interesting debate to have. Because it can open a nice can of worms.

    PS: TDS Sufferers.. can you see why Trump is a good choice. He makes things go forwards in god's ways. He brings out the evilness of the democrats who are now far far away from their supposed democratic values.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    PS: TDS Sufferers.. can you see why Trump is a good choice. He makes things go forwards in god's ways. He brings out the evilness of the democrats who are now far far away from their supposed democratic values.
    He's nearly as good as Dubya as doing the exact same thing for the Republicans, who aren't one whit closer to theirs.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by WarriorLiberty View Post
    While you have Biden acting above the law currently with the air strikes in Iraq and Syria currently believing and thinking as if America owns the middle east.
    I know, it's incredible isn't it. Thank goodness Trump never conducted strikes in Iraq and Syria.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    I suppose we can go after Clinton, Bush and Obama for their crimes now??? Or is this exclusive for the orange man?
    Nope. Trump will unfortunately be the only exception.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordan View Post
    What would you do if the whole deep state was out to destroy you? I think the strategy is sound. Also its an interesting debate to have. Because it can open a nice can of worms.

    PS: TDS Sufferers.. can you see why Trump is a good choice. He makes things go forwards in god's ways. He brings out the evilness of the democrats who are now far far away from their supposed democratic values.
    I do understand that the attorneys need to use everything they can for their client, Trump. That includes exploring the possibility of immunity. I would, too. Nevertheless, every charge against Trump is bogus.
    My two daughters and I were gang-raped by some of the Newcomers. It landed us in the hospital for 3 weeks as several bones were broken. I don't blame them, it was a sexual emergency and I wasn't about to go all white privilege and deny them the release they needed, especially after being stuck in a hotel for months. I see the Newcomers as family now. They are on our side and will help us stop Trump. It is a small price to pay. Anything but Trump.

    -GLP poster

  25. #22
    Amazing how GW Bush lied to the world in front of the UN and lied all about Saddam being a threat.
    No one in the Bush family is being arrested or threaten with a suit.


    Justice System is broken...

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by WarriorLiberty View Post
    Amazing how GW Bush lied to the world in front of the UN and lied all about Saddam being a threat.
    No one in the Bush family is being arrested or threaten with a suit.


    Justice System is broken...
    I remember when he spoke to UN and was followed by Hugo Chavez who said he could still smell the sulphur from Bush being up there.
    My two daughters and I were gang-raped by some of the Newcomers. It landed us in the hospital for 3 weeks as several bones were broken. I don't blame them, it was a sexual emergency and I wasn't about to go all white privilege and deny them the release they needed, especially after being stuck in a hotel for months. I see the Newcomers as family now. They are on our side and will help us stop Trump. It is a small price to pay. Anything but Trump.

    -GLP poster

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Trump J6 case REMOVED from DC court docket
    The case, brought by special counsel Jack Smith and presided over by Judge Tanya Chutkan, currently has motions pending that are on appeal.
    https://thepostmillennial.com/just-i...m-court-docket
    {The Post Millennial | 01 February 2024}

    The J6 case against Donald Trump has been dropped from the court's public calendar in Washington, DC. The case, brought by special counsel Jack Smith and presided over by Judge Tanya Chutkan, currently has motions pending that are on appeal.

    "Former president Donald Trump’s March 4 trial date on charges of plotting to overturn the results of the 2020 election has been dropped from the public calendar of the federal court in Washington, a sign of what has long been anticipated — that his claim of presidential immunity from criminal prosecution would delay his trial while it remains on appeal," the Washington Post reports.

    The motion currently on appeal is one brought by Trump's attorneys stating that he has presidential immunity from the charges as he was still in office at the time the alleged offenses occurred. Trump brought the motion to Chutkan, who denied it, and Trump then appealed.

    Smith took the motion to the Supreme Court and asked them to rule on it quickly, but the court declined to do so, leaving the matter for the lower court to decide. This process has caused a delay of the trial that Smith wanted to ram through the court system as quickly as possible.

    Chutkan had said that trial deadlines would be suspended as the motion brought by Trump moves through the appeals court. President Joe Biden's Department of Justice has accused Trump of staging the J6 riot, which happened while Trump was still in office.

    Trump faces a RICO case in Georgia brought by Fulton County DA Fani Willis [see this thread - OB], who is now facing her own crisis after it was revealed that she hired a man to work on the prosecutorial team with whom she was having an affair. Willis has been subpoenaed by one of the 18-codefendants in the case, Michael Roman.

    The case brought by Manhattan DC Alvin Bragg [see this thread - OB] will likely move forward this spring. Trump is accused of having recorded payments made to his attorneys as legal fees in his bookkeeping records, though Bragg claims the funds in question were intended as "hush money" to a porn star with whom Trump allegedly had a dalliance. Bragg has claimed that these misdemeanor charges are actually felonies, though he has not revealed what felony he believes these suspected misdemeanors were in service too. A pretrial hearing is on February 15.

    In a Florida federal court, Trump faces charges of hanging onto classified documents after leaving office [see this thread - OB]. That case is tied up as the Biden attorneys sort out how to view the classified documents in question. Trump has said that under the Presidential Records Act he had the right to designate which documents he would retain for personal use.

    "Chutkan also has acknowledged that Trump’s March trial was off. On Jan. 24, for example, Chutkan scheduled a new trial for April 2, when Trump’s projected six- to eight-week trial would have been ongoing. On Wednesday, Chutkan set a March 18 hearing for another defendant, saying, 'I suspect in March I will not be in trial,'" the Post reported.
    //
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by WarriorLiberty View Post
    While you have Biden acting above the law currently with the air strikes in Iraq and Syria currently believing and thinking as if America owns the middle east.
    The ones being bombed don't have standing to sue because they aren't Americans.

    Americans don't have standing to sue because they aren't the ones being bombed.

    (Pretty sweet how that works out, ain't it?)

  30. #26
    MOD NOTE: I've moved all the posts about immigration/invasion/etc. to the "Invasion USA" thread. They made up just over half the thread, but they weren't germane to the issue of Presidential "immunity" as presented in the OP.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea View Post
    Just look at the photo of the 3 judges, and you understand what happened with their ruling. And 2 were appointed by Biden. Either way doesn't matter to me, if no immunity, where is the prosecution for Obama's extrajudicial killings of American citizens. Oh, he probably left no family members alive to complain and lodge a case against him. Every former president is a war criminal, where is their prosecution? The argument for immunity would be government stability over selective prosecution depending on which party remains in power.
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    I suppose we can go after Clinton, Bush and Obama for their crimes now??? Or is this exclusive for the orange man?
    From another thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Trump has raised fresh questions about his intentions if he regains power by putting forward a legal theory that a president would be free to do nearly anything with impunity — including assassinate political rivals — so long as Congress can’t muster the votes to impeach him and throw him out of office.
    Torturing prisoners (Bush) ... drone-assassinating American citizens (Obama) ... bombing countries without Congressional approval (Biden) ...

    Where could this "legal theory that a president [is] free to do nearly anything with impunity" possibly have come from?

    It's such a baffling mystery!
    Despite all the squawking of the clowns in the OP article, Trump is nothing special in this regard.

    They're all "Tricky Dick" now:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMt8qCl5fPk
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    https://twitter.com/TrumpDailyPosts/...52069397577821


    https://twitter.com/KenGardner11/sta...56117882917241


    Well, why shouldn't he think it?

    After all, previous presidents have effectively enjoyed "total immunity" for their crimes.

    Trump is nothing special in this regard. (At worst, he's just more crudely open and blunt about it.)

    "What can possibly go wrong?" Too late - it's already gone wrong (and you did not object, because it suited your desire).

    Trump is just another iteration of what all you complacent $#@!s previously tolerated (or even encouraged).

    IOW: Reality is a thing - and causes will have their effects.

    IOOW: What is reaped is what was sown - and as rotten as it may be, one way or another, the fruit of that labor will be eaten.

    IOOOW: Karma's a bitch, ain't it?

    https://twitter.com/JonahDispatch/st...37134190313827
    & https://twitter.com/pangyre/status/1748128562245218762

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Are you saying that inclusion of a process of impeachment in the Constitution means that the person convicted of an impeachment shall not be liable and subject to indictment, trial, judgment and punishment, according to law?
    What? No. Not at all. Just that impeachment is the first step.

    If we're going to make an exception for the orange man, then let's go after the rest of 'em, too.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    When any politician is guilty of a crime I don't think impeachment suffices because it doesn't carry a penalty other getting kicked out of office and I don't think I've ever read any founder's reasoning behind immunity.
    Immunity protects voters from having the representatives they elected removed and prevented from voting by whatever random, scurrilous charges anyone cares to toss out there. Want to get your bill passed? Press phony charges against members of the opposition, then drop them after the vote.

    Impeachment is the process the body uses to deprive actual criminals of that position and that immunity, so the law can proceed against them. Immunity does not cover ex-office holders. The Court was right about that.

    This is just Trump channeling Nixon. It doesn't mean a damned thing to anyone but his cultists.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 02-07-2024 at 07:35 AM.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    What? No. Not at all. Just that impeachment is the first step.
    No. For criminal trials, indictment is the first step. Impeachment and criminal indictment are two independent things.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    If we're going to make an exception for the orange man, then let's go after the rest of 'em, too.
    There's no rule there that requires an exception for anybody. Yes, let's go after all of them.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

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