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Thread: Copyrights lasting beyond the death of the creator are unconstitutional

  1. #1

    Copyrights lasting beyond the death of the creator are unconstitutional

    Congress is only allowed to grant copyrights (an artificial monopoly) to the authors themselves:

    Article I Section 8 | Clause 8 – Patent and Copyright Clause of the Constitution. [The Congress shall have power] “To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries.”

    It may even be unconstitutional to allow the transfer (as opposed to licensing) of copyrights at all.
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  3. #2
    So, you think heirs inheriting things of value is unConstitutional?

    So I suppose you think everything a dead person owned should belong to the government? How very commie of you. Or maybe you're just a useful idiot who thinks the government will willingly proclaim it public domain? Pollyanna.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    So, you think heirs inheriting things of value is unConstitutional?

    So I suppose you think everything a dead person owned should belong to the government? How very commie of you. Or maybe you're just a useful idiot who thinks the government will willingly proclaim it public domain? Pollyanna.
    Copyrights and patents are artificial monopolies created by the government and our Constitution only authorizes them for the creators.
    The creations return to their natural state in the public domain when their protection runs out, they always have and they always will, not to the government, that's just a very clumsy strawman you created.
    Many libertarians oppose the existence of IP protection at all.
    IP lasting for the life of the creator and beyond is obscene and is the creation of the Corporatists.
    It is doubly obscene when far more beneficial patents only last for 21 years at the most.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  5. #4
    Obscene? Well, I imagine some of it is...

    You don't spare the hyperbole, do you?

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Congress is only allowed to grant copyrights (an artificial monopoly) to the authors themselves:

    Article I Section 8 | Clause 8 – Patent and Copyright Clause of the Constitution. [The Congress shall have power] “To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries.”

    It may even be unconstitutional to allow the transfer (as opposed to licensing) of copyrights at all.
    It shouldn't be called copyright, it should be called "copy privilege". Government can't give rights, it can only give privileges. That's the first problem with it.

    And yeah, "infinity -1" is not what the Constitution describes. Fortunately though it looks like Disney has given up on continuing to push for copyright extensions. They were the main driver behind the continued expansion.
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  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    It shouldn't be called copyright, it should be called "copy privilege". Government can't give rights, it can only give privileges. That's the first problem with it.

    And yeah, "infinity -1" is not what the Constitution describes. Fortunately though it looks like Disney has given up on continuing to push for copyright extensions. They were the main driver behind the continued expansion.
    Now we need to get them shortened.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #7
    Congress’s power to secure copyright and patent is expressly granted in the U.S. Constitution’s Article I, Section 8 Intellectual Property Clause. It confers on Congress a power "to promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing, for a limited time, to authors and inventors, the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries." In order to better grasp the meaning of this power and the rights it is designed to secure, attention undoubtedly should be paid to that repository of American constitutionalism widely regarded to be second only to the Constitution: namely, The Federalist Papers.

    Such attention to The Federalist Papers is not merely a matter of historical interest, although the history is certainly interesting. Rather, it is a matter of enhancing our present day understanding of why our Founders thought copyrights and patents important and deserving of protection in our Constitution. James Madison, writing in the guise of "Publius" in Federalist No. 43 provided that work’s lone direct reference to Congress’s power to protect intellectual property rights.

    This paper explores what Federalist No. 43 has to say about IP rights, and the relationship of this particular number to the theory of American constitutional government contained in other Federalist Paper numbers. The paper is the fifth in a series exploring foundational principles of intellectual property rights.
    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=2389728

    (Link contains a button to view the paper as a free PDF)

    From the paper:
    ... In subtle and succinct fashion, Federalist No. 43 identifies the ultimate source for copyright and patent in an individual’s natural right to the fruits of his or her own labor. Madison regarded copyright and patent as forms of property that government is established to protect ...

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Bern View Post
    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=2389728

    (Link contains a button to view the paper as a free PDF)

    From the paper:
    Nobody here is saying IP shouldn't exist.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  11. #9
    You were trying to make the case that copyright is Constitutionally limited to the original author. I presented argument from one of the dudes that helped shape the Constitution that copyright should be considered as property - presumably with all the standard rights to lend, lease or assign as any other property.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Bern View Post
    You were trying to make the case that copyright is Constitutionally limited to the original author. I presented argument from one of the dudes that helped shape the Constitution that copyright should be considered as property - presumably with all the standard rights to lend, lease or assign as any other property.
    Presumably not, because it is an artificial construct of the law that had to be added to the Constitution and the Constitution only allows it to be secured for the creator.
    Lending, leasing, and licensing, would fall within the language of the Constitution, but not transfer.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Presumably not, because it is an artificial construct of the law that had to be added to the Constitution and the Constitution only allows it to be secured for the creator.
    Lending, leasing, and licensing, would fall within the language of the Constitution, but not transfer.
    Um, like, dude, lending, leasing and licensing are all three ways of transferring.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Um, like, dude, lending, leasing and licensing are all three ways of transferring.
    Transfer here indicates a permanent change of ownership.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Nobody here is saying IP shouldn't exist.
    I am.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)



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