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Thread: Remember that statue the Church of Satan set up in the Iowa capitol building?

  1. #1

    Remember that statue the Church of Satan set up in the Iowa capitol building?

    Since I have been assured since 2020 that the tearing down of statues and so on is a societal good, I am curious why this man was arrested.


    https://twitter.com/EndWokeness/stat...14905178591683



    https://twitter.com/EndWokeness/stat...29557690179831

    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 12-15-2023 at 02:29 AM.
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee



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  3. #2
    Federal government and state government really do love showing just how much they worship Satan.
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  4. #3
    Goat-diddling, satanic snowflakes suddenly have a problem with blasphemy?!

    Link
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  5. #4
    Judges
    Chapter 6

    25 And it came to pass the same night, that the LORD said unto him, Take thy father's young bullock, even the second bullock of seven years old, and throw down the altar of Baal that thy father hath, and cut down the grove that is by it:

    26 And build an altar unto the LORD thy God upon the top of this rock, in the ordered place, and take the second bullock, and offer a burnt sacrifice with the wood of the grove which thou shalt cut down.

    27 Then Gideon took ten men of his servants, and did as the LORD had said unto him: and so it was, because he feared his father's household, and the men of the city, that he could not do it by day, that he did it by night.

    28 And when the men of the city arose early in the morning, behold, the altar of Baal was cast down, and the grove was cut down that was by it, and the second bullock was offered upon the altar that was built.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    I was hoping this would happen.

    The Satanic temple is not a real religion - It's a hate group that exists solely to mock Christians.
    It's attempt to horn in and overshadow a Christian holiday should be treated as a "hate crime".

    In fact, all attempts to vandalize, harass and/or prevent Christmas celebrations (ex: pro-palestinian protestors blocking tree-lightings) should be treated as hate crimes towards Christians.

    Their "holiday display" was nothing but some dunce's crappy art project - mashed up plastic bags and other debris for a head, covered with mirror tiles from the craft store. So inane.

    Also, the people who okayed this need to be named and shamed for being such stupid morons!

    Hope the guy countersues them for their very real hate crimes!

  7. #6

    dumbasses

    How can you commit a "hate crime" against someone who - if you yell "Go to HELL!" at them, they can only consider it a blessing?!

    This is just a juvenile club - probably formed by vapid rich kids who want to feel edgy.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    Goat-diddling, satanic snowflakes suddenly have a problem with blasphemy?!

    Link

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Since I have been assured since 2020 that the tearing down of statues and so on is a societal good, I am curious why this man was arrested.


    https://twitter.com/EndWokeness/stat...14905178591683



    https://twitter.com/EndWokeness/stat...29557690179831

    Exactly. Tearing down statues of founding fathers and other notable figures from our history is NBD, but tear down a statue of Baphomet and it's off to the clink with you!

  9. #8
    A satan worshipper should not be bummed about hate crimes. They should rejoice in them. They should be bummed about love crimes like giving people hugs and $#@!.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    Exactly. Tearing down statues of founding fathers and other notable figures from our history is NBD, but tear down a statue of Baphomet and it's off to the clink with you!
    Yup.

    Normally I'd be more "1st Amendment - ish" about this and shine it on as a childish display erected by deeply troubled souls.

    No longer.

    Since the Marxists declared open warfare on our history and have gone on a continuing rampage to destroy the symbols and displays and remembrances of our past, $#@! them, let's destroy their ugly, sinful, decadent $#@! as well.

    And expose the anarcho-tyranny of a two tiered "justice" system while at it.
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee

  12. #10
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 12-15-2023 at 08:09 PM.
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    From a law & order standpoint, this is a gray area, IMO. An unjust law is not law at all, and any law which protects open promotion of satanism is unjust. So I don't think he has "broken the law" in that sense. Nevertheless, it's a difficult issue because smashing things can create the wrong perception of what is happening, and the enemy will try to spin it that way. At worst, it should be treated as a "crime" of passion. They keep arousing the anger of the public, and then they act shocked when the public gets angry. Stupid games, stupid prizes...
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  14. #12
    https://twitter.com/RealSpikeCohen/s...11303485169929
    & https://twitter.com/RealSpikeCohen/s...15097619026069


    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Reaction is the Real Action | James Lindsay
    https://odysee.com/@newdiscourses:9/...action-james:f
    {New Discourses | 28 September 2023}

    With Liberty & Justice For All, Session 2 of 3 (28 September 2023)

    Leftist activism is happy to take direct wins whenever it can get them, but that’s not always possible. When it can’t get direct wins through the front door, it is also more than happy to get its wins through the back door by exploiting what we can call an action-reaction dynamic. As an act of dialectical political warfare, which is their battle logic, Leftist agitators will provoke a reaction, control the framing around that reaction to a watching audience, and use the reaction as justification to advance their cause. This strategy was articulated by Saul Alinsky as “your enemy’s reaction is your real action,” and it forms a backbone for a Leftist two-step of provoke, then advance. Currently, in the United States, recognizing the tremendous challenge conservative Christianity poses to any Marxist takeover of the country, a reactionary movement called “Christian Nationalism” is being repeatedly provoked in the hopes of being able to use that reaction to nullify any Christian resistance to the Woke takeover of the West. In this lecture from Dr. James Lindsay of New Discourses, the nature of the action-reaction dynamic as a tool of political warfare and the example of the setup of Christian Nationalism as a reaction to Woke provocation is laid bare. Listen for an important warning to the American church!

    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·

  15. #13
    So we are going to let them sacrifice virgins under a full moon as a religious right?
    The 1stA was only ever intended for Christian denominations and religions that followed the same general morality.
    There is literally nothing that can be outlawed if you allow anyone to make up any religion and respect its beliefs under the 1stA.
    They are already calling abortion a religious right in current court cases, theft, murder of adults, and literally any other crime will follow if they get away with it.

    It's long past time we declared that America is and always has been a Christian nation and we will only tolerate those who are willing to abide by laws based on Christian morality.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    From a law & order standpoint, this is a gray area, IMO. An unjust law is not law at all, and any law which protects open promotion of satanism is unjust. So I don't think he has "broken the law" in that sense. Nevertheless, it's a difficult issue because smashing things can create the wrong perception of what is happening, and the enemy will try to spin it that way. At worst, it should be treated as a "crime" of passion. They keep arousing the anger of the public, and then they act shocked when the public gets angry. Stupid games, stupid prizes...
    This gray area exists because we allowed the left to pretend America was not a Christian nation and take the 10 commandments out of courthouses.
    If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything.
    Civilization is based on religion, humans are religious by nature, if you allow the religion of your civilization to be driven out of its institutions it will be replaced by the religion that drove it out.
    It's no coincidence that Christianity is being persecuted at the same time satanists and their useful idiots are claiming religious liberty for the worship of evil.
    There is no world where Christianity and satanism live side by side with religious equality, one or the other will prevail and suppress the other.
    Anyone with a lick of sense who doesn't value his own vices over civilization will want Christianity to prevail.

    Matthew
    Chapter 12


    43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
    44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
    45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    So we are going to let them sacrifice virgins under a full moon as a religious right?
    Gee, I don't know, power freak. Nanny stater. Meddlesome busybody. Do libertarians believe in the NAP? Does murder violate the NAP? Does this tell you anything?

    Well, then, "we" aren't doing anything of the sort and you $#@!ing well know it. So why are you bleating like a Democrat sheep? Oh, Daddy, rule me! Rule over me! Do you have any idea how gay that makes you sound?

    The people who you want to say with authority whether your Fundy claptrap is a real path to God or not are the very minions who authorized that Iowa troll just to piss you off. And you not only trust them to do it right, you have more faith in them to save souls than Jesus. He just might well catch more flies with honey than with the sort of fascist inquisition you're calling for. Have you even asked Him?
    Last edited by acptulsa; 12-16-2023 at 05:17 AM.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Gee, I don't know, power freak. Nanny stater. Meddlesome busybody. Do libertarians believe in the NAP? Does murder violate the NAP? Does this tell you anything?

    Well, then, "we" aren't doing anything of the sort and you $#@!ing well know it. So why are you bleating like a Democrat sheep? Oh, Daddy, rule me! Rule over me! Do you have any idea how gay that makes you sound?

    The people who you want to say with authority whether your Fundy claptrap is a real path to God or not are the very minions who authorized that Iowa troll just to piss you off. And you not only trust them to do it right, you have more faith in them to save souls than Jesus. He just might well catch more flies with honey than with the sort of fascist inquisition you're calling for. Have you even asked Him?
    So there ARE limits to freedom of religion?
    Even a libertarian government would decide what those limits are?
    You are going to impose YOUR moral code if you have power?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    So there ARE limits to freedom of religion?
    Even a libertarian government would decide what those limits are?
    You are going to impose YOUR moral code if you have power?
    My moral code? You think I am responsible for the fact that murder is illegal? How old do you think I am?

    Why are you always wandering in here with the exact same stupid, tired semantic child games the worst purple-haired whiny 17 year old feminist wannabe progs keep beating to death? Do you think they need your help being ridiculous and annoying?

    Do I really sound to you like I'm calling for Frankie the Red to bring back the Inquisition? You seem to me to be the one calling for an Inquisition.

    So, everyone who doesn't want to torture heretics for criticizing Trump or anyone else that is often mistaken for God by the very people who should know better is okeley dokeley with mowing down the population, eh? Grow up. At least try to develop beyond the mental age of the typical climate protester.

    The more things change, the more the Left Partisans and the Right Partisans sound exactly the same. I'm telling you, @Anti Federalist, this War of the Partisans Psyop is really a war on the partisans. Right here we have a perfect example of just how it'll come to pass pretty soon that the Right Partisans will start shooting each other just like the Left Partisans are already doing. They're trying to cull the non-free thinkers. This is an IQ test. The ones that are failing will be replaced with robots in the Brave New World (Order).

    Both of these "sides" want the same thing--totalitarianism. They just want different flavors of it. Do me a favor and stay out of the crossfire. Please? You don't need to be sharing a thread with Amy and Pete for the benefit of these self-styled paragons of "Christianity".
    Last edited by acptulsa; 12-16-2023 at 07:22 AM.

  21. #18
    The entire purpose of the satanic temple is to be a lawsuit trap for people who treat them as anything other than a valid religion. This plays into their strategy, if anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  22. #19
    It is an abuse, and a misrepresentation of the Founders intent to allow 1st Amendment protections for things like Satanism or Pornography.

    States and Municipalities were free to pass those laws as they saw fit, and they certainly did.

    Only after the liberalisation of the 20th century brought on by a "certain" group of organised activists did this impression and interpretation change.

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

    What shall make no law? the Congress of the United States. Only. Not the State legislatures or town councils.
    "When Sombart says: "Capitalism is born from the money-loan", I should like to add to this: Capitalism actually exists only in the money-loan;" - Theodor Fritsch

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    So we are going to let them sacrifice virgins under a full moon as a religious right?
    But that's not the issue that is actually at stake. The question is whether the State is the proper instrument for opposing "satanism" -- it is not. For the purposes of the civil government, we can define the particular elements of satanism that cannot be permitted in the public sphere and explicitly ban those, if they are not already illegal. But going beyond that is placing the bishop's hat on Caesar, it is popery all over again.

    The 1stA was only ever intended for Christian denominations and religions that followed the same general morality.
    No, it genuinely protects all religious belief and practice that conforms to the laws of the land, which laws are (and ought to be) formed by the majority Christian culture. Any other arrangement results in either secularism (which results from allowing other religions to make our laws) or popery (which results from using the State to enforce religious doctrines and "morality").

    There is literally nothing that can be outlawed if you allow anyone to make up any religion and respect its beliefs under the 1stA.
    1A doesn't trump law-as-such. You can't murder, no matter what your "religion" believes. You can't steal no matter what your "religion" believes. The 1A protects free exercise of religion (for lawful religious purposes, meaning, not involving real (non-political) crimes), speech (press) and peaceable assembly.

    They are already calling abortion a religious right in current court cases, theft, murder of adults, and literally any other crime will follow if they get away with it.
    "We are not unaware of his schemes..." (2 Cor. 2:11)

    It's long past time we declared that America is and always has been a Christian nation and we will only tolerate those who are willing to abide by laws based on Christian morality.
    Declarations are worthless. We need to become the Christian nation that we were founded to be, which means we need to repent and turn to God. Which is why this is fundamentally a spiritual issue, not a political issue. Which is why I'm always going on about that...
    Last edited by ClaytonB; 12-16-2023 at 11:10 AM.
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    There is no world where Christianity and satanism live side by side with religious equality, one or the other will prevail and suppress the other.
    It's even more cut-and-dried than that -- the only eventuality is that every knee will bow before Jesus and every tongue will confess that he is Lord (Philippians 2:5ff). No other outcome is possible. This is why we are eagerly reaching out to the world with the Gospel -- the Gospel is an unstoppable train and you either get onboard or perish. This is not a "threat", it's simply the truth. Jesus died on the cross and rose again from the dead, and that changes everything, whether anybody likes it or not. So, the real message of the church to satanists and other unbelievers is "please stop what you're doing, we don't want you to burn forever in hell... please come to Jesus and do not perish in your sins." Once again, that is not a threat but neither is it founded on impotence, as though we are wringing our hands in despair at their incorrigible rebellion, as though it is obstructing God's divine will. Rather, it is founded on sincere pity and the humble realization that, but for the grace of God there go I. And the unstoppability of the Gospel is why their rebellion ultimately does not matter. Those who do not repent will be destroyed, more certainly than the sun rises in the morning.

    "Has not the Lord Almighty determined that the people’s labor is only fuel for the fire, that the nations exhaust themselves for nothing?" (Habakkuk 2:13)
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    It is an abuse, and a misrepresentation of the Founders intent to allow 1st Amendment protections for things like Satanism or Pornography.

    States and Municipalities were free to pass those laws as they saw fit, and they certainly did.

    Only after the liberalisation of the 20th century brought on by a "certain" group of organised activists did this impression and interpretation change.

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

    What shall make no law? the Congress of the United States. Only. Not the State legislatures or town councils.
    Wow, we agree for once. This is correct.
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    But that's not the issue that is actually at stake. The question is whether the State is the proper instrument for opposing "satanism" -- it is not. For the purposes of the civil government, we can define the particular elements of satanism that cannot be permitted in the public sphere and explicitly ban those, if they are not already illegal. But going beyond that is placing the bishop's hat on Caesar, it is popery all over again.
    And then...



    But I do expect the rebirth of the Inquisition--as soon as someone starts talking like Swordy and holding sway.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    It's even more cut-and-dried than that -- the only eventuality is that every knee will bow before Jesus and every tongue will confess that he is Lord (Philippians 2:5ff). No other outcome is possible. This is why we are eagerly reaching out to the world with the Gospel -- the Gospel is an unstoppable train and you either get onboard or perish.
    Not him. He figures chasing people away from the Word with vinegar (remember the Roman soldier?) rather than using honey to attract them is "doing the Lord's work".
    Last edited by acptulsa; 12-16-2023 at 11:37 AM.

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    But I do expect the rebirth of the Inquisition--as soon as someone starts talking like Swordy and holding sway.
    Sadly, this appears more and more inevitable every day. Every side of the issue keeps digging in their heels and insisting against all evidence to the contrary, "No, I AM RIGHT". Of course, such a situation cannot continue indefinitely and, eventually, God is going to pour the social/spiritual equivalent of Drano on the lot of us, and all the heel-diggers are going to be etched away into oblivion. Sadly, the rest of us are probably going to singed by the caustic solution as well. What this nation needs is collective repentance. Nineveh style...

    When Jonah’s warning reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, took off his royal robes, covered himself with sackcloth and sat down in the dust. This is the proclamation he issued in Nineveh:

    “By the decree of the king and his nobles:

    Do not let people or animals, herds or flocks, taste anything; do not let them eat or drink. But let people and animals be covered with sackcloth. Let everyone call urgently on God. Let them give up their evil ways and their violence. Who knows? God may yet relent and with compassion turn from his fierce anger so that we will not perish.”

    When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened. (Jonah 3:7-10)
    Are there any Christian leaders today with the righteousness of even the king of Nineveh? Been an open question for 2,000 years...

    The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now something greater than Jonah is here. (Matthew 12:41)
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28



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  29. #25
    The one thing that I'm surprised is never brought up during religious first amendment arguments is that this country was always to be a Christian nation. The first amendment means that the government doesn't get to keep the citizens from practicing their faith. (Unless there's a big cold going around apparently) That doesn't mean your religious beliefs get to be forced on others in government buildings. A nativity scene in a government building does not prevent others from practicing their religion. Cow towing to these extremists just destroys society.

  30. #26
    It's nice to walk with God, so you don't have to live in such mortal terror of the devil.

    If you're so afraid of the devil that you panic and do things which leave you more afraid of God, you don't get it.

    That's why I love this meme war. The way to defeat this evil is to laugh at it. When we're the last ones laughing, people will convert just to find out what we're smoking. They'll be ready for some.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 12-16-2023 at 12:05 PM.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    It's nice to walk with God, so you don't have to live in such mortal terror of the devil.

    If you're so afraid of the devil that you panic and do things which leave you more afraid of God, you don't get it.

    That's why I love this meme war. The way to defeat this evil is to laugh at it. When we're the last ones laughing, people will convert just to find out what we're smoking. They'll be ready for some.




    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    My moral code? You think I am responsible for the fact that murder is illegal? How old do you think I am?

    Why are you always wandering in here with the exact same stupid, tired semantic child games the worst purple-haired whiny 17 year old feminist wannabe progs keep beating to death? Do you think they need your help being ridiculous and annoying?

    Do I really sound to you like I'm calling for Frankie the Red to bring back the Inquisition? You seem to me to be the one calling for an Inquisition.

    So, everyone who doesn't want to torture heretics for criticizing Trump or anyone else that is often mistaken for God by the very people who should know better is okeley dokeley with mowing down the population, eh? Grow up. At least try to develop beyond the mental age of the typical climate protester.

    The more things change, the more the Left Partisans and the Right Partisans sound exactly the same. I'm telling you, @Anti Federalist, this War of the Partisans Psyop is really a war on the partisans. Right here we have a perfect example of just how it'll come to pass pretty soon that the Right Partisans will start shooting each other just like the Left Partisans are already doing. They're trying to cull the non-free thinkers. This is an IQ test. The ones that are failing will be replaced with robots in the Brave New World (Order).

    Both of these "sides" want the same thing--totalitarianism. They just want different flavors of it. Do me a favor and stay out of the crossfire. Please? You don't need to be sharing a thread with Amy and Pete for the benefit of these self-styled paragons of "Christianity".
    Your moral code is not the traditional one, it was invented by libertarians who wanted to live and let live with evil.
    Your kind has been trying to force it on conservatives who follow the traditional moral code for only a short time in historical terms, in ignorant concert with the satanists who wish to force their own "do as thou wilt" moral code of the jungle on everyone.

    Libertarians would allow things like Sati (the burning of the widow of a deceased man on his funeral pyre) as long as it was consensual. (or at least it is claimed to be even though it is under duress)
    There is no noninterventionism in the war of good vs. evil, if satanism is granted "religious liberty" it will use the power of government to impose itself, we see that now with voluntary prayer being prohibited in school while the schools run after school satanism clubs, and in the satanically captured FBI targeting traditional Catholics and parents who are against trans grooming of their children as terrorists.

    Outright worship of evil was never covered under the 1stA, our forefathers would have executed satanists.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Your moral code is not the traditional one, it was invented by libertarians who wanted to live and let live with evil.
    Libertarian ≠ libertine

    This is like the rumors that the Romans used to spread that Christians were cannibals, intentionally smearing the sacrament of communion. Aka poisoning the well fallacy. Some libertarians are libertines. Not all are. So condemning hedonism and libertinism, then conflating that with libertarianism, is just a strawman.

    Your kind has been trying to force it on conservatives who follow the traditional moral code for only a short time in historical terms, in ignorant concert with the satanists who wish to force their own "do as thou wilt" moral code of the jungle on everyone.
    Satanic "do as thou wilt" means "commit the crime if you think you can get away with it." Classical liberalism (which is the proper name of libertarianism which was only changed after the Left hijacked the word "liberal" precisely because they are so terrified of genuine liberty) begins with the principles of self-ownership and non-aggression. You own yourself, nobody else owns you. (Christian libertarianism explains that this is because you're made in the image of God!) In other words, you can't be enslaved (in truth), nor can you enslave another (in truth). And non-aggression is something you learned in kindergarten -- if you hit him first, you're in the wrong, no matter how mad his words made you. And since you own yourself, you also own what you produce by yourself, that is, by labor or trade. Thus, non-aggression means that you can't take people's stuff. And yes, other than that "do as thou wilt", meaning, go forth and start a business empire, or trade with far-off peoples or build a skyscraper, or whatever dream you have that doesn't involve committing a crime, just do it! That's the meaning of freedom in the civil sphere, and a government can only be just if it behaves consistently with this natural freedom that we all have by virtue of birth! None of this is complicated, a first-grader can understand all of this. And it's written down in the first paragraph of the Declaration of Independence!

    Libertarians would allow things like Sati (the burning of the widow of a deceased man on his funeral pyre) as long as it was consensual. (or at least it is claimed to be even though it is under duress)
    Yeah, "consensual" here is like "my slave wanted me to whip them, they like it." BS.

    There is no noninterventionism in the war of good vs. evil,
    OK, true, but how is that war actually to be fought? With what weapons? If even the Son of God himself did not take up swords against literal agents of Satan who crucified him, then neither are we in that war. And as to the other concerns of day-to-day protection of life and property against ordinary crimes, these can be reasonably be treated as a separate matter from the war of good versus evil for the purposes of civil government, otherwise, we should all be papists. If you need a crucifix to stop petty theft, then we all better become Catholic. But if there is a theological separation between church and State (and there is), then we must not confuse the means that are suitable in one domain for the other. We don't handcuff unbelievers for the "crime" of unbelief, we preach the Gospel to them. Because that is the weapon we have been given by God to use. Not the State.

    if satanism is granted "religious liberty" it will use the power of government to impose itself,
    What do you think has been going on these past 6,000 years of recorded history?!? It's been nothing but Satan and his henchmen from day one, with the solitary exception of God's chosen people, to the extent they were faithful to him. This is not a hypothetical, every human government in history without exception has been run by Satan, which is what the Bible is really talking about when it uses the badly twisted and misinterpreted term "this world" or "the world". "This world" doesn't mean flowers and birds and brooks... it means the wicked violent murderous State and its ecosystem of predators of all kinds, the State-sponsored/protected vice peddlers (the worst of whom hide in religious robes). People pretend like the government was at war with the mafia... the government has never been at war with the mafia, the mafia is just the "direct action unit" of the State! And all of them are beholden to just one master, who is Satan!

    we see that now with voluntary prayer being prohibited in school
    I mean, yes, that's a symptom of this, but let's be honest, government schools were created in order to systematically indoctrinate generations of our children into Marxism, and they have been wildly successful. It is impossible to explain the "overnight shift" into full-blown Wokism without understanding the government indoctrination pipeline. It has splendidly served the purpose for which it was created, with or without prayer or satanism clubs. Government schools are not only a failure, they were a blatantly obvious Trojan horse, and previous generations opted for comfortable convenience instead of resistance to tyranny.

    the satanically captured FBI targeting traditional Catholics and parents who are against trans grooming of their children as terrorists.
    And libertarians were the ones who were decades ahead in warning everybody else -- including the supposedly "staunch conservatives" -- that these dangers were coming. Conservatives preferred to keep rolling the dice to get their shot at the POTUS Ring-of-Power instead of facing up to their own failures and confronting tyranny in its tracks. There have never been any obstacles to confronting tyranny. We never needed to "set things in order" before taking it on, all conservatives had to do was stop coddling their own besetting sins -- war-mongering, pharisaism, xenophobia, apathy, etc. -- and go confront the tyrants right then and there. But actually repenting of their own favorite sins was a price that conservatives were not willing to pay. Better to keep their sins and shovel the $#@!-ball of inter-generation tyranny down onto us. Which is why we are now confronted with Wokism and bare-assed satanism in our society.

    Outright worship of evil was never covered under the 1stA
    No one in this thread is arguing that it is. I think even diehard secular libertarians tend to take a pretty dim view of open satanism and have little sympathy for them when their property is destroyed due to public backlash against people who openly state that they consider murder to be a virtue. And it is an axiom of Christian libertarianism that satanism is not to be tolerated in the public square, neither civilly nor religiously. But the State cannot solve or even address the real problem, which is spiritual. All it can do is enforce the civil laws. The State is not and never was the solution, it was always the disease.
    Last edited by ClaytonB; 12-17-2023 at 01:15 AM.
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    Libertarian ≠ libertine

    This is like the rumors that the Romans used to spread that Christians were cannibals, intentionally smearing the sacrament of communion. Aka poisoning the well fallacy. Some libertarians are libertines. Not all are. So condemning hedonism and libertinism, then conflating that with libertarianism, is just a strawman.
    Not all are, but they still push for things like legalized prostitution and granting religious liberty to satanists because they took the bait of the ones that are and swallowed the hook.


    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    Satanic "do as thou wilt" means "commit the crime if you think you can get away with it." Classical liberalism (which is the proper name of libertarianism which was only changed after the Left hijacked the word "liberal" precisely because they are so terrified of genuine liberty) begins with the principles of self-ownership and non-aggression. You own yourself, nobody else owns you. (Christian libertarianism explains that this is because you're made in the image of God!) In other words, you can't be enslaved (in truth), nor can you enslave another (in truth). And non-aggression is something you learned in kindergarten -- if you hit him first, you're in the wrong, no matter how mad his words made you. And since you own yourself, you also own what you produce by yourself, that is, by labor or trade. Thus, non-aggression means that you can't take people's stuff. And yes, other than that "do as thou wilt", meaning, go forth and start a business empire, or trade with far-off peoples or build a skyscraper, or whatever dream you have that doesn't involve committing a crime, just do it! That's the meaning of freedom in the civil sphere, and a government can only be just if it behaves consistently with this natural freedom that we all have by virtue of birth! None of this is complicated, a first-grader can understand all of this. And it's written down in the first paragraph of the Declaration of Independence!
    Exactly, and I acknowledged the difference.
    But declaring an equal playing field in the battle of good and evil just tilts the field in favor of evil after driving GOD out of the courthouse, there is no level playing field nor should there be in these matters.
    Classical liberalism if a fine thing as a modifier to traditional conservatism that serves GOD, the good, the beautiful, and the true, while suppressing outright evil.



    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    Yeah, "consensual" here is like "my slave wanted me to whip them, they like it." BS.
    But if we allow religious liberty to apply to things like satanism it will be legally protected.


    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    OK, true, but how is that war actually to be fought? With what weapons? If even the Son of God himself did not take up swords against literal agents of Satan who crucified him, then neither are we in that war. And as to the other concerns of day-to-day protection of life and property against ordinary crimes, these can be reasonably be treated as a separate matter from the war of good versus evil for the purposes of civil government, otherwise, we should all be papists. If you need a crucifix to stop petty theft, then we all better become Catholic. But if there is a theological separation between church and State (and there is), then we must not confuse the means that are suitable in one domain for the other. We don't handcuff unbelievers for the "crime" of unbelief, we preach the Gospel to them. Because that is the weapon we have been given by God to use. Not the State.
    Christ also drove the money changers out of the Temple with a cat of 9 tails.
    I'm not calling for the enforcement of every religious rule by the state, but outright evil must be suppressed, like Gideon destroying the idol of Baal and his grove.
    Evil will not hesitate to force its dictates on people if it is allowed to flourish openly.


    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    What do you think has been going on these past 6,000 years of recorded history?!? It's been nothing but Satan and his henchmen from day one, with the solitary exception of God's chosen people, to the extent they were faithful to him. This is not a hypothetical, every human government in history without exception has been run by Satan, which is what the Bible is really talking about when it uses the badly twisted and misinterpreted term "this world" or "the world". "This world" doesn't mean flowers and birds and brooks... it means the wicked violent murderous State and its ecosystem of predators of all kinds, the State-sponsored/protected vice peddlers (the worst of whom hide in religious robes). People pretend like the government was at war with the mafia... the government has never been at war with the mafia, the mafia is just the "direct action unit" of the State! And all of them are beholden to just one master, who is Satan!
    There have been exceptions, like the Judges and the Righteous kings of Israel/Judah who suppressed the devil worshipers in their reigns.
    We are to be among the exceptions and do as they did when we can.
    Romans 13 is not an endorsement of all earthly governments as the statists would have us believe, but it is an endorsement of the exceptions and a description of how we should rule if we have power:

    Romans
    Chapter 13


    3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
    4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.



    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    I mean, yes, that's a symptom of this, but let's be honest, government schools were created in order to systematically indoctrinate generations of our children into Marxism, and they have been wildly successful. It is impossible to explain the "overnight shift" into full-blown Wokism without understanding the government indoctrination pipeline. It has splendidly served the purpose for which it was created, with or without prayer or satanism clubs. Government schools are not only a failure, they were a blatantly obvious Trojan horse, and previous generations opted for comfortable convenience instead of resistance to tyranny.
    It's true that we should not have government schools, but they were far less bad when Christianity was not driven out of them.
    They are a perfect example of the shifting of the playing field in favor of evil when it is not tilted in favor of good, every necessary department of government is undergoing the same inversion and always will, because there is no neutral ground in this fight.



    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    And libertarians were the ones who were decades ahead in warning everybody else -- including the supposedly "staunch conservatives" -- that these dangers were coming. Conservatives preferred to keep rolling the dice to get their shot at the POTUS Ring-of-Power instead of facing up to their own failures and confronting tyranny in its tracks. There have never been any obstacles to confronting tyranny. We never needed to "set things in order" before taking it on, all conservatives had to do was stop coddling their own besetting sins -- war-mongering, pharisaism, xenophobia, apathy, etc. -- and go confront the tyrants right then and there. But actually repenting of their own favorite sins was a price that conservatives were not willing to pay. Better to keep their sins and shovel the $#@!-ball of inter-generation tyranny down onto us. Which is why we are now confronted with Wokism and bare-assed satanism in our society.
    Conservatives neglected to defend the religious foundations of our culture and government because they focused on things they should not have, but also because they drank the lies peddled to them about religious neutrality.
    There should have been mass revolts (like pulling children out of school to be homeschooled or sent to conservative and religious private schools) when prayer was kicked out of school, humanism was added beginning with evolutionism, and the 10 commandments were kicked out of the courthouse.
    One reason neither they nor the libertarians bucked when they should have was a love of money.


    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    No one in this thread is arguing that it is. I think even diehard secular libertarians tend to take a pretty dim view of open satanism and have little sympathy for them when their property is destroyed due to public backlash against people who openly state that they consider murder to be a virtue. And it is an axiom of Christian libertarianism that satanism is not to be tolerated in the public square, neither civilly nor religiously. But the State cannot solve or even address the real problem, which is spiritual. All it can do is enforce the civil laws. The State is not and never was the solution, it was always the disease.
    On the contrary, the post I replied to in the first place was defending granting religious rights to satanism and using the state to protect it and its statue on public property.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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