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Thread: US government vs. "antisemitism"

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    You're fine to have your own opinion but not your own facts. You don't have to agree with the Civil Rights Act but you shouldn't mis-characterize what it does. It doesn't do what you said it does College students regularly said racist things on campus well into the 21st century. And even now when students get in trouble on campus for being racist it's not the federal government coming down on them but rather campus honor codes.
    I was talking about discrimination laws against private businesses. Isn't that part of the civil rights act?



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  3. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I was talking about discrimination laws against private businesses. Isn't that part of the civil rights act?
    I'm talking about the FBI being directed to investigate people based on nothing but their speech. That is not part of the civil rights act but it IS part of the Anti Antisemitism Awareness Act.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  4. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Can you quote the part of the bill you're alluding to here? I can't find that.

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-...ill/6090/text?
    From your link:


    SEC. 4. DEFINITIONS.

    For purposes of this Act, the term “definition of antisemitism”—

    (1) means the definition of antisemitism adopted on May 26, 2016, by the IHRA, of which the United States is a member, which definition has been adopted by the Department of State; and

    (2) includes the “[c]ontemporary examples of antisemitism” identified in the IHRA definition.

    Criticizing Israel is part of the current definition of antisemitism by the IHRA.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  5. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I was talking about discrimination laws against private businesses. Isn't that part of the civil rights act?

    Generally, customers of public accommodations such as restaurants, movie theaters, and gas stations are protected by federal law from discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin or other protected status. Federal law also provides that all citizens have equal rights to make and enforce contracts. These rights are guaranteed by Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and 42 U.S.C. § 1981.

    Retail stores are a gray area, however, because federal courts have held that retail shopping is not a “public accommodation” and browsing in a store doesn't normally invoke the right-to-contract provision. While many states have passed anti-discrimination laws similar to or more stringent than federal laws, Texas is one of a handful of states that relies solely on the federal anti-discrimination provisions of the civil rights law. This means retail stores in Texas are probably not prohibited by state or federal law from engaging in discriminatory practices.

    https://www.brazoslawyers.com/discri...-legal-illegal
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  6. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    From your link:

    SEC. 4. DEFINITIONS.

    For purposes of this Act, the term “definition of antisemitism”—

    (1) means the definition of antisemitism adopted on May 26, 2016, by the IHRA, of which the United States is a member, which definition has been adopted by the Department of State; and

    (2) includes the “[c]ontemporary examples of antisemitism” identified in the IHRA definition.

    Criticizing Israel is part of the current definition of antisemitism by the IHRA.
    Where does it say anything about the FBI investigating anybody for that?

    This strikes me as essentially no different than a resolution with no impact on the law at all. It's just politicians passing a law to express an opinion that has no teeth to it.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  7. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post

    Generally, customers of public accommodations such as restaurants, movie theaters, and gas stations are protected by federal law from discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin or other protected status. Federal law also provides that all citizens have equal rights to make and enforce contracts. These rights are guaranteed by Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and 42 U.S.C. § 1981.

    Retail stores are a gray area, however, because federal courts have held that retail shopping is not a “public accommodation” and browsing in a store doesn't normally invoke the right-to-contract provision. While many states have passed anti-discrimination laws similar to or more stringent than federal laws, Texas is one of a handful of states that relies solely on the federal anti-discrimination provisions of the civil rights law. This means retail stores in Texas are probably not prohibited by state or federal law from engaging in discriminatory practices.

    https://www.brazoslawyers.com/discri...-legal-illegal
    All of those laws are a violation of the property rights of the owners. Those laws are some of the worst laws on the books. They deprive owners of their property, they make thought a crime, and they have the opposite effect of their intent.



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  9. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    All of those laws are a violation of the property rights of the owners. Those laws are some of the worst laws on the books. They deprive owners of their property, they make thought a crime, and they have the opposite effect of their intent.

    Yep. I didn't imply otherwise. I'm just not sure what to make of this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    There's no difference, however what anarchists don't understand is that there's no other option. There's always going to be a "state", "mafia", "warlord" presiding over a given area. Government is force and force is not going away anytime soon.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  10. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    I'm just not sure what to make of this:
    ???

  11. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Where does it say anything about the FBI investigating anybody for that?

    This strikes me as essentially no different than a resolution with no impact on the law at all. It's just politicians passing a law to express an opinion that has no teeth to it.
    You're right. It doesn't specifically mention the FBI. That said the impact of the law that you linked to is that it allows criticism of Israel to be used as prima fascia evidence of discrimination. Under the 1964 CRA having posters of Hitler all over the office could be seen as creating a hostile work environment. Under this bill a company taking a stand against what's happening in Gaza could be seen as creating a hostile work environment.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  12. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    ???
    lol, think about it for a while ;-)
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  13. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    lol, think about it for a while ;-)
    I give up, can you help me out?

  14. #102
    If I am not mistaken, this is a first, where political lobby group's opinions will be used to define what is and is not "legal".
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  15. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I give up, can you help me out?
    Sure. Post #2 and #6, and then your statement:

    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    There's no difference, however what anarchists don't understand is that there's no other option. There's always going to be a "state", "mafia", "warlord" presiding over a given area. Government is force and force is not going away anytime soon.
    So, is Lew Rockwell's OP article valid or not, and what is your solution?
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  16. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Sure. Post #2 and #6, and then your statement:



    So, is Lew Rockwell's OP article valid or not, and what is your solution?

    Valid in what way? Solution to what?



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  18. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Valid in what way? Solution to what?
    Seriously? Ok, I'm sitting here wondering, if what you state is true:

    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    There's no difference, however what anarchists don't understand is that there's no other option. There's always going to be a "state", "mafia", "warlord" presiding over a given area. Government is force and force is not going away anytime soon.
    Should more, or less legislation be enacted to protect our freedoms, or would we be better off de-legislating even though we anarchists "don't understand"?
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  19. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Seriously? Ok, I'm sitting here wondering, if what you state is true:



    Should more, or less legislation be enacted to protect our freedoms, or would we be better off de-legislating even though we anarchists "don't understand"?
    If the legislation violates freedom, as in this case, then of course we want less of it.

  20. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    If the legislation violates freedom, as in this case, then of course we want less of it.
    Ok, so what do anarchists don't understand?

    If only, there was more us, instead of people trying to justify existence of a corrupt state.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  21. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    If I am not mistaken, this is a first, where political lobby group's opinions will be used to define what is and is not "legal".
    Can you find anything that is made illegal by this act that is not already illegal?

    I can't.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  22. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Ok, so what do anarchists don't understand?

    If only, there was more us, instead of people trying to justify existence of a corrupt state.

    Anarchist don't understand that there's no such thing as statelessness. So it's a waste of time talking about eliminating the state. The only option is to try to have a "least bad" state. And as long as you're an anarchist that believes in real solutions to minimizing the damage, then we're on the same page. The problem is a sizable percentage of anarchists mock any attempt to minimize the state, like term limits, end the federal reserve, etc.

  23. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Given that, then what is the basis for the claim that this Anti-Semitism Awareness Act criminalizes speech?
    Matt Gaetz's perspective

  24. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    Can you find anything that is made illegal by this act that is not already illegal?

    I can't.
    I quoted it to you. There are none so blind as those that cannot see. A private group's definition of antisemitism, which includes criticism of Israel, was written into the bill as prima facia evidence of discrimination.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  25. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Anarchist don't understand that there's no such thing as statelessness. So it's a waste of time talking about eliminating the state. The only option is to try to have a "least bad" state. And as long as you're an anarchist that believes in real solutions to minimizing the damage, then we're on the same page. The problem is a sizable percentage of anarchists mock any attempt to minimize the state, like term limits, end the federal reserve, etc.
    To the contrary, anarchists attempt to minimize Starve the State wherever/whenever possible. It is the statist on whatever side who believe there must be at least some state and/or federal taxation. Which messes people like me up.

    I do not support or endorse "term limits". It is yet another attempt to give a false sense of hope to "voters". If person is bad-bad-bad, they would be for the most part replaced with another bad-bad-bad. Look at Boehner, and Trump, for 2 off-the-top-of-my-head examples. If person is very good, such as Rand Paul, Tom Massie, term limits would simply do away with them, and then what do you do? So, term limits are bogus and not important to me at all. Grounded-in-principle-and-moral PEOPLE who engage in non-compliance are much more useful and effective.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)



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  27. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    I quoted it to you. There are none so blind as those that cannot see. A private group's definition of antisemitism, which includes criticism of Israel, was written into the bill as prima facia evidence of discrimination.
    And worse, it was written into the bill that their definition was the legal definition, but that definition itself doesn't seem to be there. I don't see any indication that they need permission from Congress to change that definition. So this group can change its definition, and that changes the law.

    Who elected these people that they can change a U.S. federal statute at will?

  28. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    I quoted it to you. There are none so blind as those that cannot see. A private group's definition of antisemitism, which includes criticism of Israel, was written into the bill as prima facia evidence of discrimination.
    A perfect summary.

    I'd only add that it is fickle as well, the definition subject to change as the Small Hat Club dictates.

    And that should make any thinking person's hair stand on end.
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 05-15-2024 at 12:59 PM.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  29. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    And worse, it was written into the bill that their definition was the legal definition, but that definition itself doesn't seem to be there. I don't see any indication that they need permission from Congress to change that definition. So this group can change its definition, and that changes the law.

    Who elected these people that they can change a U.S. federal statute at will?
    Exactly.

    Nobody.

    But we are now being let to know who runs things around here.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  30. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    I quoted it to you. There are none so blind as those that cannot see. A private group's definition of antisemitism, which includes criticism of Israel, was written into the bill as prima facia evidence of discrimination.
    You were not able to find any quotes from the act that made anything illegal that isn't already.

    The act doesn't make criticism of Israel, or any other speech or opinion, de facto discrimination. Those things would still need to be accompanied with some kind of actual discrimination as defined by the Civil Rights Act.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  31. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    A perfect summary.
    But it's not a perfect summary. You can check the text of the bill. It doesn't say what his summary says it says.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  32. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    You're right. It doesn't specifically mention the FBI. That said the impact of the law that you linked to is that it allows criticism of Israel to be used as prima fascia evidence of discrimination. Under the 1964 CRA having posters of Hitler all over the office could be seen as creating a hostile work environment. Under this bill a company taking a stand against what's happening in Gaza could be seen as creating a hostile work environment.
    If a Jewish person worked at an office that had Hitler posters all over and could show that a promotion was given to a less qualified coworker, I am pretty sure that under current law those Hitler posters would be considered in court as evidence to support the charge that their employer discriminated against them because they're Jewish.

    The same thing would be true if it were a black person and the office had posters of KKK members burning crosses.
    There is nothing to fear from globalism, free trade and a single worldwide currency, but a globalism where free trade is competitively subsidized by each nation, a continuous trade war is dictated by the WTO, and the single currency is pure fiat, fear is justified. That type of globalism is destined to collapse into economic despair, inflationism and protectionism and managed by resurgent militant nationalism.
    Ron Paul
    Congressional Record (March 13, 2001)

  33. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    You were not able to find any quotes from the act that made anything illegal that isn't already.

    The act doesn't make criticism of Israel, or any other speech or opinion, de facto discrimination. Those things would still need to be accompanied with some kind of actual discrimination as defined by the Civil Rights Act.
    More from the bill.

    In reviewing, investigating, or deciding whether there has been a violation of title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (42 U.S.C. 2000d et seq.) on the basis of race, color, or national origin, based on an individual’s actual or perceived shared Jewish ancestry or Jewish ethnic characteristics, the Department of Education shall take into consideration the definition of antisemitism as part of the Department’s assessment of whether the practice was motivated by antisemitic intent.

    So under the old CRA if you said "We don't like Jews" and then fired someone you could be found liable for discrimination, but you couldn't be liable simply for taking the political stance "Israel is an apartheid stated." Candace Owens was fired by the Daily Wire for taking a stance that Ben Shapiro felt was anti Israel. If Candace Owens owned her own company and fired someone for taking Ben Shapiro's stance that would be evidence to show discrimination under this bill. A political stance is being conflated with ethnic discrimination.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  34. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Invisible Man View Post
    If a Jewish person worked at an office that had Hitler posters all over and could show that a promotion was given to a less qualified coworker, I am pretty sure that under current law those Hitler posters would be considered in court as evidence to support the charge that their employer discriminated against them because they're Jewish.

    The same thing would be true if it were a black person and the office had posters of KKK members burning crosses.
    Right! But under this bill just having a "Free Palestine" poster on your wall counts the same as having Adolf Hitler or KKK posters on your wall!

    Edit: And doesn't it bother you that rather than having the balls to just say what their own definition of antisemitism is, they delegate that to some third party by reference? As Matt Gatez pointed out, even the Christian Bible saying "the Jews killed Jesus" is antisemitism by this definition. So this is legalized discrimination against Christianity.
    Last edited by jmdrake; 05-15-2024 at 01:45 PM.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.



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