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Thread: Judge Rules Trump Committed Fraud, Stripping Control of Key Properties

  1. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.



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  3. #212
    From the video: "the communists in power say, at least we are not poisoning anyone."
    Sez who?

    This is how they started, 30 years ago, this was one of the first acts of the Clinton regime, which in many ways is still running this $#@!show.

    This is what they did: they attacked a church, filled with diverse men, women and children, (never forget, roughly half of the Branch Davidians were "people of color") with volatile CS irritant gel, using tanks to bash into the building and deliver the agent, then shot the place up with pyrotechnic "flash bang" grenades (which they then lied about) setting the building on fire which combined with the high winds resulted in an inferno. Some, who were able to exit the rear of the building, out side of the MMOs coverage, were instead gunned down by automatic weapons fire.

    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 02-22-2024 at 09:54 PM.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  4. #213
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1760800383566311742

    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  5. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Do I have to list every fraud individually or will just one entry for fraud do?
    You mean NYS definition of fraud with no injured party and nobody defrauded?
    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it.

    ~comment at Zero Hedge

  6. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    You mean NYS definition of fraud with no injured party and nobody defrauded?
    That depends on if you consider chuds to be people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  7. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post

    Unfortunately people's hypocrisy is not limited to a specific political party.

    Most people don't have an issue suspending their "principles" so long as the victim is someone they don't like.
    "An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government" - Ron Paul.

    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you arent allowed to criticize."



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  9. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by unknown View Post
    Unfortunately people's hypocrisy is not limited to a specific political party.

    Most people don't have an issue suspending their "principles" so long as the victim is someone they don't like.
    Not sure if Judge E. had any principles to begin with.

    But what can you do?

    People will tell you that Trump will do the same thing when he takes office. Then those same people will mock Trump because he never went after Hillary.

    It cannot be both things at once. You cannot both fear that Trump will abuse his power, and then mock him for not doing so. If you put that into a calculator it with throw out a syntax error.

    “When I am Weaker Than You, I ask you for Freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am Stronger than you, I take away your Freedom, Because that is according to my principles.”
    ― Frank Herbert, Children of Dune
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 02-23-2024 at 11:42 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  10. #218
    https://twitter.com/newyorkstateag/s...27120481198282


  11. #219
    Musk should drop in with an interest free loan.

  12. #220
    I am not a lawyer nor am I astute in these matters. But my question is what happened to the Corporate, or LLC or ??? Shield that protects the person from their business dealings.

    What good is it to go thru all the BS of forming legal entities to have them pierced at will by the justice system.

  13. #221
    Trump should be able to seek damages from the Prosecutors if he wins an appeal.

    Do the American People have standing in this miscarriage or corrupt form of justice.

  14. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged View Post
    I am not a lawyer nor am I astute in these matters. But my question is what happened to the Corporate, or LLC or ??? Shield that protects the person from their business dealings.

    What good is it to go thru all the BS of forming legal entities to have them pierced at will by the justice system.
    An LLC shields a private individual owner of a company from liability for damages (i.e., monetary claims). In other words, the LLC ("limited liability company") can only protect the owner of a non-public business of his personal assets, but not the assets of the company itself.

    ETA: That said, even an LLC can be sued beyond the valuation of the net worth of the company. There isn't anything limiting to that of course. Worst case scenario (and some of our resident legal eagles here can correct me if I'm wrong) the business can be liquidated, all assets seized and used to pay it's fines, but beyond that the company is effectively and practically bankrupt, but the owners personally held assets are not and cannot be claimed.
    Last edited by A Son of Liberty; 02-24-2024 at 06:43 AM.

  15. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    An LLC shields a private individual owner of a company from liability for damages (i.e., monetary claims). In other words, the LLC ("limited liability company") can only protect the owner of a non-public business of his personal assets, but not the assets of the company itself.

    ETA: That said, even an LLC can be sued beyond the valuation of the net worth of the company. There isn't anything limiting to that of course. Worst case scenario (and some of our resident legal eagles here can correct me if I'm wrong) the business can be liquidated, all assets seized and used to pay it's fines, but beyond that the company is effectively and practically bankrupt, but the owners personally held assets are not and cannot be claimed.
    So if Trump had those properties in a corporation or LLC with little net value the judgement would literally be worthless?

  16. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged View Post
    So if Trump had those properties in a corporation or LLC with little net value the judgement would literally be worthless?
    If he had them in an LLC, they could seize all of the properties that were listed under the LLC, but they couldn't touch his own, personal assets.

    I don't know if an LLC can go public - i don't think it can, because every stock holder would literally be an owner. And I don't know whether or not Trump's business(es) are publicly or privately held, but I would guess that based on his business and total wealth that they're publicly held. Therefore, within the context of this blatant and naked lawfare that they're initiating against him, every single penny that he has is "fair" game, I'm afraid. Never mind the fact that the NY decision handed down by Engoron is wholly absurd and an absolute upending of business norms (in that a private entity is entirely within it's rights to assess the value of it's properties, and a lender is 100% within it's rights to conduct an independent valuation... never mind the fact that the lender was paid in full, timely, and with interest and so there truly was no victim. Thus the State sought to interject itself into this matter - for no reason at all - to suggest that Trump somehow defrauded NY of some tax value, which is by definition a socialist ruling by a decree from a judge, brought before him by a DA, both of whom were grinding an axe.

    This is an unacceptable level of governmental corruption that canNOT be tolerated in what is supposed to be a free and constitutionally governed society. Full stop.



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  18. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    If he had them in an LLC, they could seize all of the properties that were listed under the LLC, but they couldn't touch his own, personal assets.

    I don't know if an LLC can go public - i don't think it can, because every stock holder would literally be an owner. And I don't know whether or not Trump's business(es) are publicly or privately held, but I would guess that based on his business and total wealth that they're publicly held. Therefore, within the context of this blatant and naked lawfare that they're initiating against him, every single penny that he has is "fair" game, I'm afraid. Never mind the fact that the NY decision handed down by Engoron is wholly absurd and an absolute upending of business norms (in that a private entity is entirely within it's rights to assess the value of it's properties, and a lender is 100% within it's rights to conduct an independent valuation... never mind the fact that the lender was paid in full, timely, and with interest and so there truly was no victim. Thus the State sought to interject itself into this matter - for no reason at all - to suggest that Trump somehow defrauded NY of some tax value, which is by definition a socialist ruling by a decree from a judge, brought before him by a DA, both of whom were grinding an axe.

    This is an unacceptable level of governmental corruption that canNOT be tolerated in what is supposed to be a free and constitutionally governed society. Full stop.
    Aren't owners of corporations protected? I think corporations can be publicly held. I doubt that Trump didn't have those entities in some kind of protected status.

  19. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged View Post
    Aren't owners of corporations protected? I think corporations can be publicly held. I doubt that Trump didn't have those entities in some kind of protected status.
    Corporations absolutely can be publicly held.

    Again, I'll ask our local legal eagles to correct me here, but shareholders (because a shareholder is in an incremental way an "owner") cannot be held liable for the wrong-doings of a corporation, but officers and board members can.
    Last edited by A Son of Liberty; 02-24-2024 at 05:48 PM.

  20. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    Corporations absolutely can be publicly held.

    Again, I'll ask our local legal eagles to correct me here, but shareholders (because a shareholder is in an incremental way an "owner") cannot be held liable for the wrong-doings of a corporation, but officers and board members can.
    Well anyway I doubt that it was Donald J. Trump sole proprietor. If it was some legal business entity, I am certain he had employees and who knows what else. It seems that attacking him personally and bankrupting the man or putting him in jail over property value analysis is ludicrous and eliminates any reason a business would set up a corporation or LLC.
    I think good business practice for a closely held corporation is to keep as much money out of the corporation as possible. When a corporation has a gain they pay corporate tax and then when they turn the money into salary taxes are paid again. So I think an astute owner of a closely held corporation would think they have their personal liability protected by the corporation and would keep as little value in the corporation as possible. So the debits offset the credits.
    If it were a publicly held corporation the CEO probably would not personally be inflating numbers. If a corporation hires and person to do accounting the accountant has to do their work according to accounting principles not according to what the CEO tells them to do.

    My point or question is why go after Trump and seize his properties or bankrupt him? Why are they not going after Trump Industries or whomever? Why are there not accountants being charged? Seriously a bank doesn't loan a half billion dollars on a development based on the value given of it by an egomaniac. Before anything is done even the egomaniac would hire somebody to tell them what it would get appraised at.

    This is a huge entity and it is not all about Trump. I would think the purpose of forming an entity would be to protect or limit the liability of the individual.

    What could he possibly be guilty of? Even if he went to the bank and said my properties are worth over a trillion dollars, over a trillion dollars... If you don't give me the loan I will go somewhere else, I will just go somewhere else. I can get this money anywhere, anywhere....

    WTF?

    Funny thing is same person that wants to send Trump to prison probably thinks Alec Baldwin has no liability.

  21. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged View Post
    Well anyway I doubt that it was Donald J. Trump sole proprietor. If it was some legal business entity, I am certain he had employees and who knows what else. It seems that attacking him personally and bankrupting the man or putting him in jail over property value analysis is ludicrous and eliminates any reason a business would set up a corporation or LLC.
    I think good business practice for a closely held corporation is to keep as much money out of the corporation as possible. When a corporation has a gain they pay corporate tax and then when they turn the money into salary taxes are paid again. So I think an astute owner of a closely held corporation would think they have their personal liability protected by the corporation and would keep as little value in the corporation as possible. So the debits offset the credits.
    If it were a publicly held corporation the CEO probably would not personally be inflating numbers. If a corporation hires and person to do accounting the accountant has to do their work according to accounting principles not according to what the CEO tells them to do.

    My point or question is why go after Trump and seize his properties or bankrupt him? Why are they not going after Trump Industries or whomever? Why are there not accountants being charged? Seriously a bank doesn't loan a half billion dollars on a development based on the value given of it by an egomaniac. Before anything is done even the egomaniac would hire somebody to tell them what it would get appraised at.

    This is a huge entity and it is not all about Trump. I would think the purpose of forming an entity would be to protect or limit the liability of the individual.

    What could he possibly be guilty of? Even if he went to the bank and said my properties are worth over a trillion dollars, over a trillion dollars... If you don't give me the loan I will go somewhere else, I will just go somewhere else. I can get this money anywhere, anywhere....

    WTF?

    Funny thing is same person that wants to send Trump to prison probably thinks Alec Baldwin has no liability.
    I think most of what you're saying is accurate... the only thing I would say is that it was all about Trump. This is lawfare in action. Note, the trial was a civil, not a criminal proceeding. Civil cases are much less dependent upon facts proved beyond a reasonable doubt, and more about the "appearance" of wrong-doing. Civil suits can sometimes be brought to "nudge" an opposing party to resolving some financial or personal dispute, rather than paying a ton of legal fees, etc. (speaking as someone who has lived thru just such a nightmare). And the fact that this smug, arrogant so-called "judge" made a summary judgment in this case just goes to that point even further.

  22. #229
    Appeal filed today.

    Trump Appeals $355 Million Ruling in New York Civil Fraud Case

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...il-fraud-case/

    SIMON KENT 26 Feb 2024

    Former President Donald Trump filed a notice of appeal Monday in the matter of the New York civil judgment finding him liable for fraudulently inflating his net worth on years of financial statements.

    The judgement curtailed his ability – and that of the Trump Organization – to do business in New York or apply for loans from financial institutions registered with the state.

    Trump has now asked an intermediate-level state appellate court to overturn Justice Arthur Engoron’s Feb. 16 ruling in a civil fraud lawsuit brought in 2022 by New York Attorney General Letitia James, Reuters reports.

    Engoron ordered Trump to pay $355 million in penalties, but with interest the total has grown to nearly $454 million.

    That total will increase by nearly $112,000 per day until he pays, according to James’ office, CBS News notes.

    James sought to essentially bankrupt Trump by calling for a $370 million fine and a lifetime disbarment from the real estate industry in New York State.

    Trump’s announcement follows through with his trial comments when he declared during closing arguments, “This is a case that should have never been brought, and I think we should be entitled to damages, as Breitbart News reported.

    Trump added he was being punished for “having built a perfect company, great cash, great buildings, great everything.”

    Constitutional scholar Jonathan Turley called the ruling “confiscatory, extreme, and abusive.”

    The judgment is the second this year in which Trump was found guilty and required to part with millions.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  23. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Appeal filed today.

    Trump Appeals $355 Million Ruling in New York Civil Fraud Case

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...il-fraud-case/

    SIMON KENT 26 Feb 2024

    Former President Donald Trump filed a notice of appeal Monday in the matter of the New York civil judgment finding him liable for fraudulently inflating his net worth on years of financial statements.

    The judgement curtailed his ability – and that of the Trump Organization – to do business in New York or apply for loans from financial institutions registered with the state.

    Trump has now asked an intermediate-level state appellate court to overturn Justice Arthur Engoron’s Feb. 16 ruling in a civil fraud lawsuit brought in 2022 by New York Attorney General Letitia James, Reuters reports.

    Engoron ordered Trump to pay $355 million in penalties, but with interest the total has grown to nearly $454 million.

    That total will increase by nearly $112,000 per day until he pays, according to James’ office, CBS News notes.

    James sought to essentially bankrupt Trump by calling for a $370 million fine and a lifetime disbarment from the real estate industry in New York State.

    Trump’s announcement follows through with his trial comments when he declared during closing arguments, “This is a case that should have never been brought, and I think we should be entitled to damages, as Breitbart News reported.

    Trump added he was being punished for “having built a perfect company, great cash, great buildings, great everything.”

    Constitutional scholar Jonathan Turley called the ruling “confiscatory, extreme, and abusive.”

    The judgment is the second this year in which Trump was found guilty and required to part with millions.
    "The beatings will continue until morale improves"

    I don't think that is going to work this time.
    "The Patriarch"

  24. #231
    Apparently as I mentioned previously, nobody is willing to write a bond for Trump's appeal.


    https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-can...170009953.html

  25. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Apparently as I mentioned previously, nobody is willing to write a bond for Trump's appeal.


    https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-can...170009953.html
    The exorbitant and punitive amount of the judgment coupled with an unlawful and unconstitutional blanket prohibition on lending transactions would make it impossible to secure and post a complete bond.
    I don't see how this is possible given that he's a multi trillionaire
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.



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  27. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    I don't see how this is possible given that he's a multi trillionaire
    Would you have posted bond for one of Stalin or Hitler’s imprisoned political enemies?

    That would probably be safer.

  28. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Would you have posted bond for one of Stalin or Hitler’s imprisoned political enemies?

    That would probably be safer.
    Do you remember when you thought that he was self funded?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  29. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Do you remember when you thought that he was self funded?
    Many people have memories which are more convenient than that.

  30. #236
    The next lawsuit is going to be for the falsifying information on the bond.

  31. #237
    More anarcho-tyrannical "no victims, no damages" bull$#@!:

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post

  32. #238

  33. #239
    https://twitter.com/jsolomonReports/...69837582983620
    [link: https://justthenews.com/politics-pol...-trumps-assets]


    Letitia James Moves To STEAL Trump's Properties
    https://odysee.com/@actualjusticewar...-trump's:0
    {Actual Justice Warrior | 21 March 2024}

    In this video, I explain how the so-called real estate fraud case against Trump is so tilted against him. Even if he were to win on appeal it could cost him more than the value of his current fine.

    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 03-21-2024 at 11:06 PM.

  34. #240
    Then there are those that say Trump is the deep state or paid opposition or???



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