Page 5 of 11 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 150 of 307

Thread: Judge Rules Trump Committed Fraud, Stripping Control of Key Properties

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a hotel social club. People stay there. He's staying at a room in his own hotel..
    Well, that was what I figured, or he stays in the "owner's suite" or something like that.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    In this case, what plaintiff?

    There is no damaged party to be "made whole" again.

    So who gets this money?
    In this case, the "plaintiff" is the one who employs the Attorney General "plaintiff's" attorney - and the judge, too.

    IOW: The State.

    IOOW: Justice "Just Us" (but not you and me)

  4. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    In this case, the "plaintiff" is the one who employs the Attorney General "plaintiff's" attorney - and the judge, too.

    IOW: The State.

    IOOW: Justice "Just Us" (but not you and me)
    Anarcho-Tyranny
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  5. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    I'm well aware others do what Trump did, that doesn't make it legal.

    I'm also well aware that they targeted Trump for something others got away with.

    I never once said it wasn't a selective prosectution for political reasons.

    I just said that Trump did what they claimed he did.
    That's not what he said. Listen. That is literally their job. That is all they do, all day, every day. It's 100% legal. You don't know anything about economic finance or valuations, obviously. All valuations are subjective. You are allowed to lie on a job application or a resume, it's the employer's responsibility to verify. You are allowed to lie on a loan application, it's up to the bank to verify with an appraisal. If you lie egregiously, you might not get the loan, because banks tend to do their due diligence and will find out. They may not want to deal with you. If you lie on a job application, the employer may find out and not hire you. But it's not against the law. It also can be a common mistake, rather than a lie, there is no way to prove it was a lie.
    Last edited by dannno; 02-19-2024 at 10:01 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  6. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    I'm well aware others do what Trump did, that doesn't make it legal.

    I'm also well aware that they targeted Trump for something others got away with.

    I never once said it wasn't a selective prosectution for political reasons.

    I just said that Trump did what they claimed he did.
    Did you not listen to what the man said? This is how real estate development actually works. As a loan applicant, you state your collateral value at X. The lender states the value at X/x. And at the end of the day, it is up to the lender to agree or disagree with whatever valuation they deem to be fair, and to lend based on that criteria. There is nothing criminal about that. That's called a "negotiation", and in the end, once the lender determines the value of the collateral and makes the loan, the borrower is either obliged to agree to those terms, or seek financing elsewhere.

    I'm seriously not sure why this is even a question. This is such a clear-cut case of lawfare that it lowers the American judicial system to Soviet-style levels of corruption.

    Full disclosure - while I'm not a Trump supporter, I will 100% support him over the clearly corrupt and creepingly revolutionary democrats every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

  7. #126
    I guess next time anyone takes out a loan, they need to call this judge and ask what he thinks their assets are worth.

    I took out a loan for my current home in 2015. It was listed for $129k, I offered $4,000 over that. Even offered to pay all the closing costs and fees. (I really wanted the house.) The bank approved the loan for $133k.

    Did I defraud the bank? I mean, I know it's a little bit different situation, and I'm not running for president against the left's favorite dementia patient. But still, I guess I'd better stay out of New York (which will be easy.)
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 02-20-2024 at 07:44 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  8. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a hotel social club. People stay there. He's staying at a room in his own hotel..
    He is registered to vote with his address as Mar a Lago.

  9. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    That's not what he said. Listen. That is literally their job. That is all they do, all day, every day. It's 100% legal. You don't know anything about economic finance or valuations, obviously. All valuations are subjective. You are allowed to lie on a job application or a resume, it's the employer's responsibility to verify. You are allowed to lie on a loan application, it's up to the bank to verify with an appraisal. If you lie egregiously, you might not get the loan, because banks tend to do their due diligence and will find out. They may not want to deal with you. If you lie on a job application, the employer may find out and not hire you. But it's not against the law. It also can be a common mistake, rather than a lie, there is no way to prove it was a lie.
    You are the one not listening. The shark tank guy is saying that everyone lies about their net worth and the value of their properties. I didn't dispute that. Trump got caught doing it. They didn't just make up $#@!, he did this. It's not legal, it's fraud.



  10. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  11. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    It's not legal, it's fraud.
    If it's illegal, why no proper prosecution and beyond a reasonable doubt criminal trial?

  12. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    You are the one not listening. The shark tank guy is saying that everyone lies about their net worth and the value of their properties. I didn't dispute that. Trump got caught doing it. They didn't just make up $#@!, he did this. It's not legal, it's fraud.
    lol

    The value of a piece of property is 100% subjective. I bought a piece of property just recently for 15K more than asking, because I had a certain subjective value ascribed to it. My offer was accepted. From my perspective, the sellers undervalued their property. I offered more than the asking price because I wanted to be sure I got the property.

    There's no "lying" about the subjective value of a piece of property. It's just a matter of negotiation, and how much the lender is willing to lend.

    I remain perplexed about what is so difficult about this.

  13. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    If it's illegal, why no proper prosecution and beyond a reasonable doubt criminal trial?
    Because they got him on civil fraud. NY law allows this. Somebody cited the statute in an earlier post.

  14. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    lol

    The value of a piece of property is 100% subjective. I bought a piece of property just recently for 15K more than asking, because I had a certain subjective value ascribed to it. My offer was accepted. From my perspective, the sellers undervalued their property. I offered more than the asking price because I wanted to be sure I got the property.

    There's no "lying" about the subjective value of a piece of property. It's just a matter of negotiation, and how much the lender is willing to lend.

    I remain perplexed about what is so difficult about this.
    This was already explained in previous posts, you didn't read or don't care to

  15. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Because they got him on civil fraud. NY law allows this.
    Does the Constitution?

    Do you really have no problem whatsoever with a government having used a civil court to prosecute this to an unconstitutional standard, or are you just happy they "got" this guy and principle and precedent both be damned?

    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    This was already explained in previous posts, you didn't read or don't care to
    Do you care to address that point?
    Last edited by acptulsa; 02-20-2024 at 10:04 AM.

  16. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    You are the one not listening. The shark tank guy is saying that everyone lies about their net worth and the value of their properties. I didn't dispute that. Trump got caught doing it. They didn't just make up $#@!, he did this. It's not legal, it's fraud.
    No, he didn't. Please post the quote where he said that. He did not. He said they shine the brightest and most optimistic light on it, because value is subjective. You can't "lie" in a legal sense about something that is subjective. It's like saying, "hey man, promote this artist's new album, it's the best album ever!". Is that a lie? Can you really objectively say that the album was NOT the best album ever? No, you can't, because music is subjective. So are valuations. If A Son of Liberty hadn't come along, it is likely nobody would have bought that property for that amount. It was pure happenstance he happened to find it, place that value on it, and buy it. Value is NOT $#@!ING OBJECTIVE. There is no "objective" value, markets and buyers are constantly in flux. He could have just as easily found another property a month earlier that he liked and bought that, and not been in the market at the time. There are also several methods to valuing assets, some of them rely on forecasting future sales quantities and the value of those sales. That is not $#@!ing objective.

    I said you can lie, because you can.. just not in a legal sense. You can't prove that somebody's opinion on a value is a lie, rather than just being really optimistic. He did not say that, but it's true.

    You are literally regarded.... as someone who doesn't know much about this stuff..
    Last edited by dannno; 02-20-2024 at 10:54 AM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  17. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    You are literally regarded.
    You don't seem to...

  18. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Does the Constitution?

    Do you really have no problem whatsoever with a government having used a civil court to prosecute this to an unconstitutional standard, or are you just happy they "got" this guy and principle and precedent both be damned?



    Do you care to address that point?
    When you do things like overstate your net worth or overvalue your property, you take the chance that it will come back to bite you in the ass especially if you are a public figure. It did for Trump. That's all I have to say.



  19. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  20. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    When you do things like overstate your net worth or overvalue your property, you take the chance that it will come back to bite you in the ass especially if you are a public figure. It did for Trump. That's all I have to say.
    Three felonies a day.

    Trump is guilty.

    So are you.

    So am I.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  21. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    When you do things like overstate your net worth or overvalue your property, you take the chance that it will come back to bite you in the ass especially if you are a public figure. It did for Trump. That's all I have to say.
    Except literally everybody does that, because value is subjective, and it is completely 100% legal.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  22. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    .... as someone who doesn't know much about this stuff..
    LOL

    Cute edit.

    He knows as much as you do. He just has different blinders on than yours.

  23. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Three felonies a day.

    Trump is guilty.

    So are you.

    So am I.
    Right.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  24. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    LOL

    Cute edit.

    He knows as much as you do. He just has different blinders on than yours.
    He doesn't show jack $#@!.

    Is it illegal to "overvalue" your assets by $1? How about $2? Where is the threshold in the law?

    Does the government get to determine what the real value is? How do they do that? If they are off by $1 in their valuation, do they go to prison or pay a fine?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  25. #142
    Trump always over exaggerates numbers.

    Karma?

  26. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    He doesn't show jack $#@!.

    Is it illegal to "overvalue" your assets by $1? How about $2? Where is the threshold in the law?

    Does the government get to determine what the real value is? How do they do that? If they are off by $1 in their valuation, do they go to prison or pay a fine?
    The threshold of the law is between the persona and the persona non grata.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Three felonies a day.

    Trump is guilty.

    So are you.

    So am I.

  27. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Does the Constitution?

    Do you really have no problem whatsoever with a government having used a civil court to prosecute this to an unconstitutional standard, or are you just happy they "got" this guy and principle and precedent both be damned?
    To the extent that the governor had to proclaim that businesses in the state should not be concerned about this ruling... because... you know... wink, wink, nudge, nudge... it was just about getting Trump. Not a *real* ruling, and no one else is going to be held to this standard.



  28. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  29. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    To the extent that the governor had to proclaim that businesses in the state should not be concerned about this ruling... because... you know... wink, wink, nudge, nudge... it was just about getting Trump. Not a *real* ruling, and no one else is going to be held to this standard.
    Which is why a wise man stands on principle even if the *wink wink* is getting a guy he wants got.

  30. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Which is why a wise man stands on principle even if the *wink wink* is getting a guy he wants got.
    As has been previously stated by AF: "3 felonies a day".

    And I repeat emphatically - standing behind this SJ is substantiating the state. It is ludicrous, and it is a clear-cut case of lawfare, to the bold-faced point that this country is teetering on the point of banana republic status, full stop.
    Last edited by A Son of Liberty; 02-20-2024 at 11:48 AM.

  31. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Is it illegal to "overvalue" your assets by $1? How about $2? Where is the threshold in the law?
    Is it OK to falsely claim that a 10,996 square foot penthouse is really a 30,000 square foot one, resulting in an overvaluation between $114-207 million, especially after the discrepancy has been brought to your attention (see page 21 of Judge Engoron's order)? Or in Trump's world is the actual measure of a "foot" merely subjective?

    How about overvaluing property by over 400% (page 22-23 of the order) or 700% (page 23) or even 2300% (page 26)?
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  32. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Three felonies a day.

    Trump is guilty.

    So are you.

    So am I.
    Probably more than three for me. I'm not running for potus, so nobody cares.

  33. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    As has been previously stated by AF: "3 felonies a day".

    And I repeat emphatically - standing behind this SJ is substantiating the state. It is ludicrous, and it is a clear-cut case of lawfare, to the bold-faced point that this country is teetering on the point of banana republic status, full stop.
    Maybe so, but Trump is already on the record saying he would do the exact same thing to the Biden family if Trump is elected again. Is that ok or is it just what this country has come down to?

  34. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Probably more than three for me. I'm not running for potus, so nobody cares.
    Not yet they don't.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

Page 5 of 11 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 37
    Last Post: 10-03-2019, 02:50 PM
  2. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-20-2019, 06:10 PM
  3. NY court rules fraud charges against Trump University can proceed
    By CPUd in forum 2016 Presidential Election: GOP & Dem
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-01-2016, 04:20 PM
  4. Federal judge finds CIA committed fraud, orders documents unsealed
    By disorderlyvision in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-22-2009, 10:01 AM
  5. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-25-2009, 05:19 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •