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It's a subjective valuation. The lender(s) had every right to refuse the valuation, or request a new one, or flat out refuse the loan.
They weighed the risk to reward, found it agreeable, and issued the loans and credit lines.
All of which were paid back at the required interest.
The fact that this is a "selective" prosecution goes without saying.
AG James said she was going to "get Trump" and she did.
Yes, that is also a troubling new advance for the Marxists: the fact that they are now confident in prosecuting anybody, at any time, for any thing.
Because we are all "guilty" of something.
But the fact that he is innocent really pushes the envelope.
The whole narrative is absurd on its face - at the same time the USA was both founded on White supremacy, slavery, and genocide, yet always meant to be a place that infinity Africans, Indians, and South Americans could come for a "better life"? - Unknown
'Here......Once again, we have gathered in the depths of a small Cotswold town called Stow-On-the Wold, among the town and country folk, we can witness the lesser spotted Karens, going about other peoples business, in their natural habitat'.......
-In the voice of Sir David Attenborough
I'm not in real estate, but I have bought and sold a couple of houses. When I bought those houses, the seller asked for a certain amount. My lenders determined whether or not the amount I was asking to borrow was reasonable with regard to the asset. They weren't going to give me $500K to buy a hovel on a quarter-acre (where I live anyway, lol). Thus, it really doesn't matter what the seller (or in Trump's case, he who is suggesting the value of his collateral) values the property at. Responsible banks will independently evaluate the value of the collateral and base their lending decisions on that valuation.
Unless I'm missing something here, I'm not really sure why this is so difficult. Hell, in this case in particular, all you have to do is look at the values of the properties adjacent to Mar-a-Lago...
This seems to me to be a bold and bald-faced political persecution. And if it is, that should concern every American citizen - right, left and middle.
Yeah you are missing something. Trump wasn't borrowing based on stated or evaluated value of the purchased property. He was borrowing on the stated value of his total net worth. He exagerated his net worth which got him more lower and more favorable loan rates. This is an unfair trade practice because it gives his company an advantage over those who correctly value their net worth. It's not victimless, those who follow the rules are the victims.
You all can argue that this happens all the time and you aren't wrong. But that doesn't make Trump not guilty of it. When you do things lilke this, you roll the dice you won't get caught, he did.
Any company in competition with Trump's in NY that correctly reported it's net worth is a victim. When Trump overstated the value of his company, he received loans at a lower rate with better terms than a company that properly reported their net worth. This creates an unfair advantge for Trump's company. This is an unfair trade practicce. A stockholder or employee of such a company is a victim of Trump, they lose value from his actions.
It's a civil suit. There not only has to be a victim, but until now, the victim has always had to instigate the case.
Why are you ignoring that fact? As if victimless crimes weren't bad enough, now we have victimless "damages". Talk about an oxymoron. Courts demanding the government gets paid for imaginary damage done to--who? Nobody's claiming to be a victim of this, even with billions in incentives to make that claim. Talk about a recipe for tyranny.
Last edited by acptulsa; 02-17-2024 at 08:00 AM.
Ok, the orange one can do no wrong and runs big beautiful perfect businesses, you all win. I explained, you all don't accept the reality of the situation, I'm done.
The only ones denying reality is yourself, the prosecutor and the judge. The idea that your property is only worth what the county assessor has it listed at is ridiculous. County assessments are always under the true value and then increases are capped until the property is sold. It's very likely that you, the prosecutor and the judge all misrepresented your property values when getting loans in the same way. Your TDS is clouding your judgement, and you're willing to go along with a malicious prosecution.
It's the opposite. You're trying to justify (or at least assuage) the most insane example of, "Show me the man and I'll show you the crime," in U.S. history...on a Ron Paul/libertarian forum. You're willing to go along with burning the entire nation to the ground because you dislike Trump, a person who isn't even responsible for this nation's problems, which were decades in the making.
The problem is that this doesn't end with Trump. What they have done to Trump they can more easily do to regular people who run afoul of the government's good graces. The next Ron Paul that emerges will be destroyed, and likely will not have the resources that have allowed Trump to stay afloat. You will never be allowed to elect a candidate that you like.
"I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
-Stannis Baratheon
Not quite. The basis of the complaint is Section 63(12) of the New York Executive Law, which authorizes the New York Attorney General to file suit to enjoin fraudulent business conduct and seek damages.
More specifically, the fraudulent conduct alleged to trigger Section 63(12) includes violations of New York Penal Law § 175.10 (Falsifying Business Records); Penal Law § 175.45 (Issuing a False Financial Statement); and Penal Law § 176.05 (Insurance Fraud).12. Whenever any person shall engage in repeated fraudulent or illegal acts or otherwise demonstrate persistent fraud or illegality in the carrying on, conducting or transaction of business, the attorney general may apply, in the name of the people of the state of New York, to the supreme court of the state of New York, on notice of five days, for an order enjoining the continuance of such business activity or of any fraudulent or illegal acts, directing restitution and damages and, in an appropriate case, cancelling any certificate filed under and by virtue of the provisions of section four hundred forty of the former penal law or section one hundred thirty of the general business law, and the court may award the relief applied for or so much thereof as it may deem proper. The word "fraud" or "fraudulent" as used herein shall include any device, scheme or artifice to defraud and any deception, misrepresentation, concealment, suppression, false pretense, false promise or unconscionable contractual provisions. The term "persistent fraud" or "illegality" as used herein shall include continuance or carrying on of any fraudulent or illegal act or conduct. The term "repeated" as used herein shall include repetition of any separate and distinct fraudulent or illegal act, or conduct which affects more than one person. Notwithstanding any law to the contrary, all monies recovered or obtained under this subdivision by a state agency or state official or employee acting in their official capacity shall be subject
to subdivision eleven of section four of the state finance law.
Keep in mind that the Trump organizations that are defendants in the suit are corporations and limited liability companies formed under New York law and entities formed out-of-state that are registered to do business in New York. As such, they are subject to New York law including Section 63(12).
The complaint can be read here: https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/tto_complaint.pdf
We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
Erwin N. Griswold
Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
Anonymous
Another excellent reason to secede from New York. Time for us to figure out that we're fools to stay in any club that has New York as a member.
When the government drags someone to court without the slightest pretense that the government itself is owed something, ostensibly on behalf of the common good, that's a prosecution. And there's nothing in the Bill of Rights I read which says, "... unless the government disguises its prosecution as a suit and conducts it in civil court."
Last edited by acptulsa; 02-17-2024 at 10:39 AM.
Again, net worth is a highly subjective estimation. The bank representatives testified that they routinely gave high net worth individuals a 50% haircut to their stated net worth before evaluating loan terms and conditions. The suggestion that this was unfair and impacted others in the market for loans is really ridiculous, when you can't name a single victim. Trump received favorable loan terms not because of his highly subjective stated net worth, but because he was an incredibly sought after individual that all the biggest banks in the world competed to earn his business because it was known to be low risk and lucratively profitable at the same time.
How you can endorse the state seizing such a fine, and openly support it on this liberty forum, is shameful, just because you hate trump.
I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.
Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
To whom?directing restitution and damages
There was no plaintiff, nobody got ripped off, the loans were paid back, everybody made money.
So who was defrauded?
This is nothing more than a case of a colored communist channeling Lavrentiy Beria for personal political reasons.
"Show me the man and I'll show you the crime" - Soviet secret police chief Lavrentiy Beria
The whole narrative is absurd on its face - at the same time the USA was both founded on White supremacy, slavery, and genocide, yet always meant to be a place that infinity Africans, Indians, and South Americans could come for a "better life"? - Unknown
The whole narrative is absurd on its face - at the same time the USA was both founded on White supremacy, slavery, and genocide, yet always meant to be a place that infinity Africans, Indians, and South Americans could come for a "better life"? - Unknown
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