Page 3 of 11 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 90 of 307

Thread: Judge Rules Trump Committed Fraud, Stripping Control of Key Properties

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    I'm sure Trump will be able to go three years without doing any business in that filth hole. He could have took all his businesses there and moved them out of the state.
    There will be some businesses that would likely move out of the NYC New York City is becoming to dangerous and some areas have rat infestation. Getting rid of the rats isn't the only problem...



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    I'm sure Trump will be able to go three years without doing any business in that filth hole. He could have took all his businesses there and moved them out of the state.
    Next headline:

    Trump forbidden by judge to move businesses out of state. Must remain even if it means losing money.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Just because some other people don't report their worth correctly doesn't make what Trump did legal. You are missing my point, you all should be arguing that Trump was selectively prosecuted. Not that he is innocent, because he is not.
    It's a subjective valuation. The lender(s) had every right to refuse the valuation, or request a new one, or flat out refuse the loan.

    They weighed the risk to reward, found it agreeable, and issued the loans and credit lines.

    All of which were paid back at the required interest.

    The fact that this is a "selective" prosecution goes without saying.

    AG James said she was going to "get Trump" and she did.

    Yes, that is also a troubling new advance for the Marxists: the fact that they are now confident in prosecuting anybody, at any time, for any thing.

    Because we are all "guilty" of something.

    But the fact that he is innocent really pushes the envelope.
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee

  5. #64
    Luckily for him his criminal and legal expenses are already crowd funded.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.



  6. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    The problem is, it isn't a prosecution. It's a civil case with no plaintiff. It's an unprecedented persecution.
    Thank you! This is insane. Now any prosecutor who doesn't like a political adversary can bring a civil suit against them without a plaintiff and or injured party. There's no way this kind of idiocy can with withstand an appeal.
    My two daughters and I were gang-raped by some of the Newcomers. It landed us in the hospital for 3 weeks as several bones were broken. I don't blame them, it was a sexual emergency and I wasn't about to go all white privilege and deny them the release they needed, especially after being stuck in a hotel for months. I see the Newcomers as family now. They are on our side and will help us stop Trump. It is a small price to pay. Anything but Trump.

    -GLP poster

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Not that one is crap. But Trump did overstate the total net worth of his assets.
    I'm not in real estate, but I have bought and sold a couple of houses. When I bought those houses, the seller asked for a certain amount. My lenders determined whether or not the amount I was asking to borrow was reasonable with regard to the asset. They weren't going to give me $500K to buy a hovel on a quarter-acre (where I live anyway, lol). Thus, it really doesn't matter what the seller (or in Trump's case, he who is suggesting the value of his collateral) values the property at. Responsible banks will independently evaluate the value of the collateral and base their lending decisions on that valuation.

    Unless I'm missing something here, I'm not really sure why this is so difficult. Hell, in this case in particular, all you have to do is look at the values of the properties adjacent to Mar-a-Lago...

    This seems to me to be a bold and bald-faced political persecution. And if it is, that should concern every American citizen - right, left and middle.

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    I'm not in real estate, but I have bought and sold a couple of houses. When I bought those houses, the seller asked for a certain amount. My lenders determined whether or not the amount I was asking to borrow was reasonable with regard to the asset. They weren't going to give me $500K to buy a hovel on a quarter-acre (where I live anyway, lol). Thus, it really doesn't matter what the seller (or in Trump's case, he who is suggesting the value of his collateral) values the property at. Responsible banks will independently evaluate the value of the collateral and base their lending decisions on that valuation.

    Unless I'm missing something here, I'm not really sure why this is so difficult. Hell, in this case in particular, all you have to do is look at the values of the properties adjacent to Mar-a-Lago...

    This seems to me to be a bold and bald-faced political persecution. And if it is, that should concern every American citizen - right, left and middle.

    Yeah you are missing something. Trump wasn't borrowing based on stated or evaluated value of the purchased property. He was borrowing on the stated value of his total net worth. He exagerated his net worth which got him more lower and more favorable loan rates. This is an unfair trade practice because it gives his company an advantage over those who correctly value their net worth. It's not victimless, those who follow the rules are the victims.

    You all can argue that this happens all the time and you aren't wrong. But that doesn't make Trump not guilty of it. When you do things lilke this, you roll the dice you won't get caught, he did.

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Yeah you are missing something. Trump wasn't borrowing based on stated or evaluated value of the purchased property. He was borrowing on the stated value of his total net worth. He exagerated his net worth which got him more lower and more favorable loan rates. This is an unfair trade practice because it gives his company an advantage over those who correctly value their net worth. It's not victimless, those who follow the rules are the victims.
    Admittedly, I was not breathlessly following this "trial," but who exactly were the victims? Do you have specific names?

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    Admittedly, I was not breathlessly following this "trial," but who exactly were the victims? Do you have specific names?
    Any company in competition with Trump's in NY that correctly reported it's net worth is a victim. When Trump overstated the value of his company, he received loans at a lower rate with better terms than a company that properly reported their net worth. This creates an unfair advantge for Trump's company. This is an unfair trade practicce. A stockholder or employee of such a company is a victim of Trump, they lose value from his actions.

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Any company in competition with Trump's in NY that correctly reported it's net worth is a victim.
    So why didn't any of them sue him? The DA couldn't find any such unicorn?

    And it's its, not it's.

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Luckily for him his criminal and legal expenses are already crowd funded.
    Spoiler alert:

    So are his prosecutors. (only the crowd is a bit smaller, with more sinister characters involved)
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Any company in competition with Trump's in NY that correctly reported it's net worth is a victim. When Trump overstated the value of his company, he received loans at a lower rate with better terms than a company that properly reported their net worth. This creates an unfair advantge for Trump's company. This is an unfair trade practicce. A stockholder or employee of such a company is a victim of Trump, they lose value from his actions.
    What was the damage done to "any company"? I haven't seen any actual harm done to anyone. You are speaking hypotheticals.



  15. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    So why didn't any of them sue him? The DA couldn't find any such unicorn?

    And it's its, not it's.
    Quote Originally Posted by familydog View Post
    What was the damage done to "any company"? I haven't seen any actual harm done to anyone. You are speaking hypotheticals.
    I think at this point you both are grasping at straws. Naming of a specific indivual harmed is not legally necessary to win a case of this type.

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    I think at this point you both are grasping at straws. Naming of a specific indivual harmed is not legally necessary to win a case of this type.
    It's a civil suit. There not only has to be a victim, but until now, the victim has always had to instigate the case.

    Why are you ignoring that fact? As if victimless crimes weren't bad enough, now we have victimless "damages". Talk about an oxymoron. Courts demanding the government gets paid for imaginary damage done to--who? Nobody's claiming to be a victim of this, even with billions in incentives to make that claim. Talk about a recipe for tyranny.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 02-17-2024 at 08:00 AM.

  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    I think at this point you both are grasping at straws. Naming of a specific indivual harmed is not legally necessary to win a case of this type.
    If naming a victim is not required, then what is Trump guilty of, exactly? I've never been a fan of Soviet-style show trials.

  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    I think at this point you both are grasping at straws. Naming of a specific indivual harmed is not legally necessary to win a case of this type.
    So you can't identify any actual victims, and you can't specify any actual damages - but other people are the ones "grasping at straws"?


  20. #77
    Ok, the orange one can do no wrong and runs big beautiful perfect businesses, you all win. I explained, you all don't accept the reality of the situation, I'm done.

  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Any company in competition with Trump's in NY that correctly reported it's net worth is a victim. When Trump overstated the value of his company, he received loans at a lower rate with better terms than a company that properly reported their net worth. This creates an unfair advantge for Trump's company. This is an unfair trade practicce. A stockholder or employee of such a company is a victim of Trump, they lose value from his actions.
    The lender has the final sayso on the value.
    Maybe Trump gets better rates because he's a good customer?

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Ok, the orange one can do no wrong and runs big beautiful perfect businesses, you all win. I explained, you all don't accept the reality of the situation, I'm done.
    Meow, someone needs a nap

  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Ok, the orange one can do no wrong and runs big beautiful perfect businesses, you all win. I explained, you all don't accept the reality of the situation, I'm done.
    The only ones denying reality is yourself, the prosecutor and the judge. The idea that your property is only worth what the county assessor has it listed at is ridiculous. County assessments are always under the true value and then increases are capped until the property is sold. It's very likely that you, the prosecutor and the judge all misrepresented your property values when getting loans in the same way. Your TDS is clouding your judgement, and you're willing to go along with a malicious prosecution.



  24. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  25. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt4Liberty View Post
    The only ones denying reality is yourself, the prosecutor and the judge. The idea that your property is only worth what the county assessor has it listed at is ridiculous. County assessments are always under the true value and then increases are capped until the property is sold. It's very likely that you, the prosecutor and the judge all misrepresented your property values when getting loans in the same way. Your TDS is clouding your judgement, and you're willing to go along with a malicious prosecution.
    The property tax value was low because of the way Mara Lago is categorized. here is what I found, "The lower valuation comes from Mar-a-Lago technically being a social club in an agreement Trump made in 1995 to receive tax benefits rather than a private residence."

  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Ok, the orange one can do no wrong and runs big beautiful perfect businesses, you all win. I explained, you all don't accept the reality of the situation, I'm done.
    This still doesn't explain how someone can be sued in civil court by a prosecutor who can't produce a victim.

    Habeas corpus just doesn't cut any ice with you, does it?

  27. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Ok, the orange one can do no wrong and runs big beautiful perfect businesses, you all win. I explained, you all don't accept the reality of the situation, I'm done.
    It's the opposite. You're trying to justify (or at least assuage) the most insane example of, "Show me the man and I'll show you the crime," in U.S. history...on a Ron Paul/libertarian forum. You're willing to go along with burning the entire nation to the ground because you dislike Trump, a person who isn't even responsible for this nation's problems, which were decades in the making.

    The problem is that this doesn't end with Trump. What they have done to Trump they can more easily do to regular people who run afoul of the government's good graces. The next Ron Paul that emerges will be destroyed, and likely will not have the resources that have allowed Trump to stay afloat. You will never be allowed to elect a candidate that you like.
    "I shall bring justice to Westeros. Every man shall reap what he has sown, from the highest lord to the lowest gutter rat. They have made my kingdom bleed, and I do not forget that."
    -Stannis Baratheon

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    It's a civil suit. There not only has to be a victim, but until now, the victim has always had to instigate the case.
    Not quite. The basis of the complaint is Section 63(12) of the New York Executive Law, which authorizes the New York Attorney General to file suit to enjoin fraudulent business conduct and seek damages.

    12. Whenever any person shall engage in repeated fraudulent or illegal acts or otherwise demonstrate persistent fraud or illegality in the carrying on, conducting or transaction of business, the attorney general may apply, in the name of the people of the state of New York, to the supreme court of the state of New York, on notice of five days, for an order enjoining the continuance of such business activity or of any fraudulent or illegal acts, directing restitution and damages and, in an appropriate case, cancelling any certificate filed under and by virtue of the provisions of section four hundred forty of the former penal law or section one hundred thirty of the general business law, and the court may award the relief applied for or so much thereof as it may deem proper. The word "fraud" or "fraudulent" as used herein shall include any device, scheme or artifice to defraud and any deception, misrepresentation, concealment, suppression, false pretense, false promise or unconscionable contractual provisions. The term "persistent fraud" or "illegality" as used herein shall include continuance or carrying on of any fraudulent or illegal act or conduct. The term "repeated" as used herein shall include repetition of any separate and distinct fraudulent or illegal act, or conduct which affects more than one person. Notwithstanding any law to the contrary, all monies recovered or obtained under this subdivision by a state agency or state official or employee acting in their official capacity shall be subject
    to subdivision eleven of section four of the state finance law.
    More specifically, the fraudulent conduct alleged to trigger Section 63(12) includes violations of New York Penal Law § 175.10 (Falsifying Business Records); Penal Law § 175.45 (Issuing a False Financial Statement); and Penal Law § 176.05 (Insurance Fraud).

    Keep in mind that the Trump organizations that are defendants in the suit are corporations and limited liability companies formed under New York law and entities formed out-of-state that are registered to do business in New York. As such, they are subject to New York law including Section 63(12).

    The complaint can be read here: https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/tto_complaint.pdf
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  29. #85
    Another excellent reason to secede from New York. Time for us to figure out that we're fools to stay in any club that has New York as a member.

    When the government drags someone to court without the slightest pretense that the government itself is owed something, ostensibly on behalf of the common good, that's a prosecution. And there's nothing in the Bill of Rights I read which says, "... unless the government disguises its prosecution as a suit and conducts it in civil court."
    Last edited by acptulsa; 02-17-2024 at 10:39 AM.

  30. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Ok, the orange one can do no wrong and runs big beautiful perfect businesses, you all win. I explained, you all don't accept the reality of the situation, I'm done.
    Laws are for other companies, like Disney and Facebook.

    You see, laws are supposed to protect "us" from "them." They're not supposed to bind "us" in the process.
    Last edited by TheCount; 02-17-2024 at 11:11 AM.

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    Yeah you are missing something. Trump wasn't borrowing based on stated or evaluated value of the purchased property. He was borrowing on the stated value of his total net worth. He exagerated his net worth which got him more lower and more favorable loan rates. This is an unfair trade practice because it gives his company an advantage over those who correctly value their net worth. It's not victimless, those who follow the rules are the victims.

    You all can argue that this happens all the time and you aren't wrong. But that doesn't make Trump not guilty of it. When you do things lilke this, you roll the dice you won't get caught, he did.
    Again, net worth is a highly subjective estimation. The bank representatives testified that they routinely gave high net worth individuals a 50% haircut to their stated net worth before evaluating loan terms and conditions. The suggestion that this was unfair and impacted others in the market for loans is really ridiculous, when you can't name a single victim. Trump received favorable loan terms not because of his highly subjective stated net worth, but because he was an incredibly sought after individual that all the biggest banks in the world competed to earn his business because it was known to be low risk and lucratively profitable at the same time.

    How you can endorse the state seizing such a fine, and openly support it on this liberty forum, is shameful, just because you hate trump.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by tebowlives View Post
    The property tax value was low because of the way Mara Lago is categorized. here is what I found, "The lower valuation comes from Mar-a-Lago technically being a social club in an agreement Trump made in 1995 to receive tax benefits rather than a private residence."
    That's the case in this situation. It doesn't mean that the county assessed value isn't almost always dramatically lower, and just about anyone who ever took out a mortgage would be guilty by the standards set forth by this Marxist judge.



  33. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  34. #89
    directing restitution and damages
    To whom?

    There was no plaintiff, nobody got ripped off, the loans were paid back, everybody made money.

    So who was defrauded?

    This is nothing more than a case of a colored communist channeling Lavrentiy Beria for personal political reasons.

    "Show me the man and I'll show you the crime" - Soviet secret police chief Lavrentiy Beria
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee

  35. #90

Page 3 of 11 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 37
    Last Post: 10-03-2019, 02:50 PM
  2. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-20-2019, 06:10 PM
  3. NY court rules fraud charges against Trump University can proceed
    By CPUd in forum 2016 Presidential Election: GOP & Dem
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-01-2016, 04:20 PM
  4. Federal judge finds CIA committed fraud, orders documents unsealed
    By disorderlyvision in forum U.S. Political News
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-22-2009, 10:01 AM
  5. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-25-2009, 05:19 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •