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Thread: Judge Rules Trump Committed Fraud, Stripping Control of Key Properties

  1. #1

    Judge Rules Trump Committed Fraud, Stripping Control of Key Properties

    Judge Rules Trump Committed Fraud, Stripping Control of Key Properties
    The decision in a lawsuit that could go to trial next week is a major win for Attorney General Letitia James, who says former President Donald J. Trump overvalued his holdings by as much as $2.2 billion.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/26/n...aud-trial.html
    [archive link: https://archive.ph/3nOQd]
    {Jonah E. Bromwich & Ben Protess | 26 September 2023}

    A New York judge ruled on Tuesday that Donald J. Trump persistently committed fraud by inflating the value of his assets, and stripped the former president of control over some of his signature New York properties.

    The decision by Justice Arthur F. Engoron is a major victory for Attorney General Letitia James in her lawsuit against Mr. Trump, effectively deciding that no trial was needed to determine that he had fraudulently secured favorable terms on loans and insurance deals.

    Ms. James has argued that Mr. Trump inflated the value of his properties by as much as $2.2 billion and is seeking a penalty of about $250 million in a trial scheduled to begin as early as Monday [see this thread - OB].

    Justice Engoron wrote that the annual financial statements that Mr. Trump submitted to banks and insurance companies “clearly contain fraudulent valuations that defendants used in business.”

    Ms. James, in a brief statement, said, “We look forward to presenting the rest of our case at trial.”

    A lawyer for Mr. Trump, Christopher M. Kise, indicated that he would appeal the decision, which he called “outrageous” and “completely disconnected from the facts and governing law.” He said that the judge ignored an earlier appeals court ruling and “basic legal, accounting and business principles.”

    While the trial will determine the size of the penalty, Justice Engoron’s ruling granted one of the biggest punishments Ms. James sought: the cancellation of business certificates that allow some of Mr. Trump’s New York properties to operate, a move that could have major repercussions for the Trump family business.

    The decision could terminate his control over a flagship commercial property at 40 Wall Street in Lower Manhattan and a family estate in Westchester County. Mr. Trump might also lose control over his other New York properties, including Trump Tower in Midtown Manhattan and his golf club in Westchester.

    The order will not dissolve Mr. Trump’s company itself, which is a collection of hundreds of entities, but the decision could nonetheless have a sweeping impact on the company’s New York operations. If Justice Engoron’s decision is not reversed by an appeals court, it could shut down an entity that employs hundreds of people working for him in New York, effectively crushing the company.

    “The decision seeks to nationalize one of the most successful corporate empires in the United States and seize control of private property,” Mr. Kise said.

    The order would also unwind the Trump Organization L.L.C. That entity is relatively inconsequential, a vehicle for the sprawling company’s brand name. But it has been synonymous with Mr. Trump from his earliest days as a developer with a penchant for tabloid publicity, bringing his father’s outer-borough business to the heart of Manhattan.

    While Ms. James’s civil case had been overshadowed by the four criminal indictments of the former president [see here - OB] — which are unrelated to Ms. James’s accusations — the judge’s decision, if it stands, will represent the first punishment to emerge from a government investigation into Mr. Trump.

    Justice Engoron’s decision narrows the issues that will be heard at trial, deciding that the core of Ms. James’s case was valid. It represents a major blow to Mr. Trump, whose lawyers had sought to persuade the judge to throw out many claims against the former president.

    In his order, Justice Engoron wrote scathingly about Mr. Trump’s defenses, saying that the former president and the other defendants, including his two adult sons and his company, ignored reality when it suited their business needs. “In defendants’ world,” he wrote, “rent-regulated apartments are worth the same as unregulated apartments; restricted land is worth the same as unrestricted land; restrictions can evaporate into thin air.”

    “That is a fantasy world, not the real world,” he added.

    The judge also levied sanctions on Mr. Trump’s lawyers for making arguments that he had previously rejected. He ordered each to pay $7,500, noting that he had previously warned them that the arguments in question bordered on being frivolous.

    Repeating them was “indefensible,” Justice Engoron wrote.

    Even if Mr. Trump’s attempt to appeal the ruling is unsuccessful, he still has an opportunity to delay the trial, or even gut the case. Mr. Trump has sued Justice Engoron himself, and an appeals court is expected to rule this week on his lawsuit. But if the appeals court rules against him, Mr. Trump will have to fight the remainder of the case at trial.

    Mr. Trump is his own most dedicated promoter and for years has acted as a booster for the value of his buildings and his brand. The possibility that Mr. Trump’s exaggerations could be criminal has long intrigued prosecutors, and the Manhattan district attorney’s office at one point came close to indicting Mr. Trump on charges that he had misrepresented their value.

    The current district attorney, Alvin L. Bragg, declined to pursue that case, but later indicted the former president in connection with a hush money payment to a porn star [see this thread - OB].

    Ms. James started investigating Mr. Trump in March 2019 and filed a lawsuit against him last September, accusing him of “staggering” fraud in representing the value of his apartment buildings, hotels and golf clubs, among other assets. Her filings have accused Mr. Trump of using simple, duplicitous tricks to multiply the represented value of his signature properties, from Trump Tower to Mar-a-Lago.

    In one noteworthy example, she accused Mr. Trump of overestimating the size of the triplex apartment in Trump Tower in which he lived for decades, saying it was 30,000 feet, rather than about 11,000. Justice Engoron seized on that, noting that Mr. Trump’s lawyers had “absurdly” suggested that the calculation of square footage was subjective and adding that good-faith measurements might vary by as much as 10 to 20 percent, but not 200 percent.

    “A discrepancy of this order of magnitude, by a real estate developer sizing up his own living space of decades, can only be considered fraud,” he wrote.

    Mr. Trump’s lawyers had asked Justice Engoron for a so-called summary judgment — a ruling that they were entitled to a victory before trial based on undisputed facts — seeking to toss out many claims against him. They relied heavily on an appeals court ruling from June that raised the notion that some claims against Mr. Trump might be too old to proceed to trial.

    Justice Engoron denied Mr. Trump’s request, interpreting the appeals court ruling as relatively inconsequential for the case, while granting Ms. James’s similar bid for partial summary judgment.

    Mr. Trump, a Republican, has denied all wrongdoing and accused Ms. James, a Democrat, of political persecution. His lawyers have noted that the banks that lent Mr. Trump money were hardly victims: they turned profits. They also argued that valuing property can be subjective, more art than a strict science.

    “The court disregarded the viewpoint of those actually involved in the loan transactions who testified there was nothing misleading, there was no fraud, and the transactions were all highly profitable,” Mr. Kise said in his statement. He added that there was “zero evidence of any default, breach, late payment or any complaint of harm.”

    But those are some of the very arguments for which Justice Engoron, with whom Mr. Trump’s lawyers have tangled at every turn, issued sanctions.

    “The documents do not say what they say; that there is no such thing as ‘objective’ value,” the judge wrote, paraphrasing their arguments as he saw them, and adding, “Essentially, the court should not believe its own eyes.”

    In a footnote, he added a line from the movie “Duck Soup” uttered by Chico Marx: “Well, who ya gonna believe, me or your own eyes?”
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 09-26-2023 at 06:46 PM.
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  3. #2
    BREAKING: JUDGE RULES TRUMP DEFRAUDED BANKS & INSURERS
    https://twitter.com/MarioNawfal/stat...79664268644382
    {Mario Nawfal | 26 September 2023}

    In the biggest blow yet, a judge ruled Trump committed fraud for years as he built his real estate empire.

    Judge Arthur Engoron found that Trump and his company deceived banks, insurers and others by massively overvaluing his assets and exaggerating his net worth on paperwork used in making deals and securing financing.

    KEY POINTS:

    - Engoron found that Trump, his company and key executives repeatedly lied about their wealth on their annual financial statements, reaping rewards such as favorable loan terms and lower insurance premiums.

    - Engoron states that those tactics crossed the line, rejecting Trump’s contention that a disclaimer on the financial statements absolved him of any wrongdoing.

    - Engoron ordered that some of Trump’s business licenses be rescinded as punishment, making it difficult or impossible for them to do business in New York.

    - He also said he would continue to have an independent monitor oversee the Trump Organization’s operations.

    - Engoron’s ruling, in a phase of the case known as summary judgment, resolves the key claim in the lawsuit, but six others remain.

    “In defendants’ world: rent regulated apartments are worth the same as unregulated apartments; restricted land is worth the same as unrestricted land; restrictions can evaporate into thin air; a disclaimer by one party casting responsibility on another party exonerates the other party’s lies That is a is a fantasy world, not the real world.” - From Engoron's ruling.


  4. #3
    The decision by Justice Arthur F. Engoron is a major victory for Attorney General Letitia James in her lawsuit against Mr. Trump, effectively deciding that no trial was needed to determine that he had fraudulently secured favorable terms on loans and insurance deals.
    LOL - Like a jury trial would have made a difference in Manhattan.
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee

  5. #4
    Just more of that integrity he is all about.
    On Trump:
    How conservative Republicans can continue to support this arrogant imposter—the man who brags about inflicting the world with the Covid mark of the beast; the man who said, “Take the guns first, go through due process second”; and the man who deliberately played and then set up Stewart Rhodes (of course, Stewart was all too eager to be Trump’s patsy) for an 18-year prison sentence—is truly beyond my comprehension.” Chuck Baldwin

  6. #5
    wrong thread sorry
    On Trump:
    How conservative Republicans can continue to support this arrogant imposter—the man who brags about inflicting the world with the Covid mark of the beast; the man who said, “Take the guns first, go through due process second”; and the man who deliberately played and then set up Stewart Rhodes (of course, Stewart was all too eager to be Trump’s patsy) for an 18-year prison sentence—is truly beyond my comprehension.” Chuck Baldwin

  7. #6
    The system encourages this kind of fraud. It’s only when you run afoul of the ruling politicians that it becomes a problem. I bet you’d find that a majority of large businesses do the same.

    In a free market, it’s a cautionary tale for customers and investors. In whatever we have now, it leverage for control.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  8. #7
    Holy $#@!ing $#@!.

    Theyre literally trying to destroy him.

    And for what???

    Pushing through a bumpstock ban, crazy debt and trying to secure the border?
    "An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government" - Ron Paul.

    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you arent allowed to criticize."

  9. #8
    I'm not alleging that this is a victimless crime....yet........ but who was the injured party that started this investigation?



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    The system encourages this kind of fraud. It’s only when you run afoul of the ruling politicians that it becomes a problem. I bet you’d find that a majority of large businesses do the same.

    In a free market, it’s a cautionary tale for customers and investors. In whatever we have now, it leverage for control.
    So you believe this ruling? What ever happen to "Innocent until proven guilty?"

    Has anyone notice that every time the Republicans fine a new damning piece of information on Hunter and Joe, then some judge puts a slap down of Trump? Coincidence? Nah, convenient, yes.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    So you believe this ruling? What ever happen to "Innocent until proven guilty?"
    Gee, I don't see where he said that. He just said it happens continuously, which is true.

    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Has anyone notice that every time the Republicans fine a new damning piece of information on Hunter and Joe, then some judge puts a slap down of Trump? Coincidence? Nah, convenient, yes.
    Of course. Biden was designed to fail. Your buddy will be back in a couple of years, trying to get you to take that jab of his.

    Once it's his again, will you like it better? You'll be surprised how many of your peers will.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    So you believe this ruling? What ever happen to "Innocent until proven guilty?"
    That rule applies in criminal cases. This was a civil proceeding.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    That rule applies in criminal cases. This was a civil proceeding.
    Anyone may apply that standard personally wherever they wish. At least, they may in a free country.

    And since this "civil case" was filed by an attorney general who isn't even alleging that she was personally defrauded, it does seem to blur that line, doesn't it? Or have the banks even claimed they suffered by loaning money that was paid back with the requisite interest?

    Attorney general brings a case against someone who has no victims. Pardon me for saying it sure sounds like a criminal case.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 09-27-2023 at 09:09 AM.

  15. #13
    commies...commies EVERYWHERE
    FLIP THOSE FLAGS, THE NATION IS IN DISTRESS!


    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by jkr View Post
    commies...commies EVERYWHERE
    that is a fact and a problem beyond fixing in the methods being attempted that i have seen.
    Do something Danke

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    That rule applies in criminal cases. This was a civil proceeding.
    However, for a judge to rule that a persons entire business enterprise must be totally absolved via a ruling in a civil case is unusual. Normally, there is a monetary decision.

    This smacks of political bias... shockingly /s.

  18. #16
    The Judge claimed Mar-a-Lago is only worth $18 million.

    The vacant property down the street that is 1/10th the size is going for $150 million.

    Mar-a-Lago is estimated to be worth upwards of $1 billion or more.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    The system encourages this kind of fraud. It’s only when you run afoul of the ruling politicians that it becomes a problem. I bet you’d find that a majority of large businesses do the same.

    In a free market, it’s a cautionary tale for customers and investors. In whatever we have now, it leverage for control.
    It's not fraud... if you buy a property for $10,000 and build something that makes the property worth $1 million based on income generation, you get to take out loans based on the $1 million. If you are building something that you predict will make the property worth $1 million in income generation, then you can take out a loan based on the $1 million. Therefore it is all speculative. It's actually the bank's responsibility to do the due diligence and make the determination.

    In this case, Trump paid back all the loans.

    Context:

    It was once my job to approve business loans for a bank. We believed nothing applicants told us, relying only on documents such as tax returns and third-party assessments.


    Nearly all applicants "exaggerate" their ability to repay a loan. None were indicted.


    I couldn't even insure my house without the insurance company walking through it to see for themselves.


    So, I have questions.


    https://twitter.com/ScottAdamsSays/s...91205613514999

    In an attempt to destroy my father and kick him out of New York, a Judge just ruled that Mar-a-Lago, in Palm Beach Florida, is only worth approximate “$18 Million dollars”… Mar-a-Lago is speculated to be worth we’ll over a billion dollars making it arguably the most valuable residential property in the country. It is all so corrupt and coordinated.


    https://twitter.com/EricTrump/status...95629505114508



    https://twitter.com/HappyCamper2626/...22440272912729
    Last edited by dannno; 09-27-2023 at 08:20 AM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  21. #18
    The largest wall street banks in the world with the most sophisticated law firms reviewing contracts and approving loans, all the loans were paid back with interest. None of the banks are claiming fraud and are not part of the civil suit.

    Things are getting really bad.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  22. #19

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    However, for a judge to rule that a persons entire business enterprise must be totally absolved via a ruling in a civil case is unusual. Normally, there is a monetary decision.
    The summary judgment the judge rendered was for liability. There will be a trial to determine the size of the penalty and other remedies.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    The summary judgment the judge rendered was for liability. There will be a trial to determine the size of the penalty and other remedies.
    Penalty.

    Remedies for whom, exactly? Is anyone going to get any of this plunder but government and government employees?

    This does sound less and less like a civil case...

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    The Judge claimed Mar-a-Lago is only worth $18 million.

    The vacant property down the street that is 1/10th the size is going for $150 million.

    Mar-a-Lago is estimated to be worth upwards of $1 billion or more.
    I used to live in Palm Beach County.

    20 acres of land on the island, along with the Post/Trump estate itself, is worth $800 million to $1 billion in today's market, I think.
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Penalty.

    Remedies for whom, exactly? Is anyone going to get any of this plunder but government and government employees?

    This does sound less and less like a civil case...
    Don't forget that the Trump companies are government-chartered, and there's probably something in NY law that allows the state to seek penalties for fraudulent behavior.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    This does sound less and less like a civil case...
    It does seem odd. Why is there no prison sentence demanded?!?
    This fraud looks even more serious than not properly disclosing hush payments to a porn star and Playboy bunny...

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Remedies for whom, exactly? Is anyone going to get any of this plunder but government and government employees?
    Obviously those poor poor banks couldn't figure out that big bad Donald inflated the worth of his real estate.
    I guess you're not arguing that the banks should be compensated (as far as I can tell it isn't even claimed that they suffered any damage).


    Maybe it really is merely a publicity stunt that will give Donald the media attention he needs, bringing in the go-fund-my-lawsuits bucks and votes.
    Although I DO find it hard to believe that this will make Donald more popular overall.
    Do NOT ever read my posts. Google and Yahoo wouldn’t block them without a very good reason: Google-censors-the-world/page3

    The Order of the Garter rules the world: Order of the Garter and the Carolingian dynasty



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Don't forget that the Trump companies are government-chartered, and there's probably something in NY law that allows the state to seek penalties for fraudulent behavior.
    Fortunately this behavior is totally normal and pretty much 100% of businesses who engage in similar business transactions engage in similar behavior.

    Care to comment on the Judge claiming Mar-a-Lago is only worth $18 million?

    It's 17.5 acres. There is a property down the street on a half acre with a home that probably cost about $1 million or so to build, that is currently listed at $40 million.

    It is realistically probably worth $600 million - $1 billion plus.

    The Judge is literally retarded.. either that or a complete lying authoritarian Stalinist toolbag.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Care to comment on the Judge claiming Mar-a-Lago is only worth $18 million?
    The judge said that the Palm Beach County Assessor had appraised the property at between $18 and 27.6 million. Why? Because Trump had placed conservation easements on the property restricting its use to that of a social club and "limiting changes to the Property, including, without limitation, the division or subdivision of the Property for any purpose, including use as single family homes, the interior of renovation of the mansion, which may be necessary or desirable for the sale of the Property, the construction of new buildings and the obstruction of open vistas". In exchange for these easements and restrictions the property was taxed at a much lower rate than it otherwise would have been (which was a major purpose of placing the restrictions on the property in the first place)

    And guess what? The value for the property shown on Trump's financial statements didn't reflect these restrictions.

    See pages 26-27 of the judge's order, available here: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbe...==&system=prod[/quote]

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    The Judge is literally retarded.. either that or a complete lying authoritarian Stalinist toolbag.
    No, the folks who are retarded are those who make knee-jerk assertions without knowing all of the facts. Also retarded is anyone who would pay $600 million for a property with these restrictions.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    The Judge claimed Mar-a-Lago is only worth $18 million.

    The vacant property down the street that is 1/10th the size is going for $150 million.

    Mar-a-Lago is estimated to be worth upwards of $1 billion or more.
    As a resident of Florida, I can tell you there is no way in hell it is worth 18 million. Add a zero to that probably. I would say 150-200 million. Not a billion, not way. 18 million on my part of the east coast of Florida buys you a 2000-3000 sq foot house on a 1/4 acre lot oceanfront.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    The judge said that the Palm Beach County Assessor had appraised the property at between $18 and 27.6 million. Why? Because Trump had placed conservation easements on the property restricting its use to that of a social club and "limiting changes to the Property, including, without limitation, the division or subdivision of the Property for any purpose, including use as single family homes, the interior of renovation of the mansion, which may be necessary or desirable for the sale of the Property, the construction of new buildings and the obstruction of open vistas". In exchange for these easements and restrictions the property was taxed at a much lower rate than it otherwise would have been (which was a major purpose of placing the restrictions on the property in the first place)

    And guess what? The value for the property shown on Trump's financial statements didn't reflect these restrictions.





    No, the folks who are retarded are those who make knee-jerk assertions without knowing all of the facts. Also retarded is anyone who would pay $600 million for a property with these restrictions.
    Around here in Florida the easments basically mean nothing. If you grease the right people, they just go away.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    The judge said that the Palm Beach County Assessor had appraised the property at between $18 and 27.6 million. Why? Because Trump had placed conservation easements on the property restricting its use to that of a social club and "limiting changes to the Property, including, without limitation, the division or subdivision of the Property for any purpose, including use as single family homes, the interior of renovation of the mansion, which may be necessary or desirable for the sale of the Property, the construction of new buildings and the obstruction of open vistas". In exchange for these easements and restrictions the property was taxed at a much lower rate than it otherwise would have been (which was a major purpose of placing the restrictions on the property in the first place)

    And guess what? The value for the property shown on Trump's financial statements didn't reflect these restrictions.

    See pages 26-27 of the judge's order, available here: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/fbe...==&system=prod
    This changes nothing. Obviously, a new owner could remove those easements, and saying tax assessed value should be the same as market value or value presented to a bank is ludicrously retarded.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 01/15/24
    Trump will win every single state primary by double digits.
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Has anyone notice that every time the Republicans fine a new damning piece of information on Hunter and Joe, then some judge puts a slap down of Trump?
    Yes.
    100s Of Pages Of Newly Released Memos Spark Fresh Corruption Charges Ahead Of 1st Biden Impeachment Inquiry Hearing
    WEDNESDAY, SEP 27, 2023 - 09:45 PM

    Mountains of evidence released by House Republicans on the Ways and Means Committee today point to a decade and more of influence peddling and financial fraud involving President Joe Biden, his son Hunter, and brother, James, and multiple business associates.

    These documents will be reviewed on Thursday in the first special impeachment inquiry hearing of the House Oversight and Accountability Committee.

    Newly revealed materials confirm that Hunter Biden was traveling the world to sell influence and access to the Biden “brand,” meaning his father, Joe Biden.

    Hunter has even referred to access to his father as “the keys” to “my family’s only asset.”...

    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/...head-1st-biden

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