New Mexico Governor Takes Away Right to Carry for Public Health "Emergency"

[Occam's Banana]

And your views are also in the vast majority of American citizen's views.

Which is why there is no hope of ever turning this around.

That's incorrect.

I hope and pray every day that I am wrong.

Even if your first statement is correct, the second is not. [1]

That's because the views of the "majority of American[s]" don't really matter.

Their views (whatever they may be) are ultimately not what determines how things will go.

What determines how things will go are the particular circumstances under which a minority (and it is always a minority) either (1) imposes [2] its will upon the rest, or (2) resists [3] the attempts of some other minority to impose its will upon the rest.

All of history is a train of contentions between active minorities. The majority of people simply go along with whatever the results of those contentions may be [4]. Thus, all that is necessary for "turning this around" is that there are enough people - not a majority, or even a plurality, but just "enough" (however much that might be) in the right places at the right times (whatever those might be) - to accomplish (2).

IOW: Minorities lead and majorities follow.

IOOW: There is always hope - but there are never guarantees.

"It's possible we will lose. It's impossible that we must lose. That is the white pill." -- Michael Malice

[1] You sense this on some level, which is why you ended up saying "I hope [...] I am wrong [that 'there is no hope']".

[2]

https://twitter.com/RepThomasMassie/...24135026286810

[3] Peaceably (by active non-compliance) and/or violently (through force or threat of force).

[4] The practice of mass democracy has deceived many people into thinking otherwise, and has deluded them into imagining that (the mass of) "The People" are somehow ultimately in charge of anything. (That's why so many politicians profess to love "our democracy" so much.)

[TheTexan]

The damage that Abraham Lincoln did to this nation's psyche cannot be overstated.

Live long enough as a slave, and you forget what freedom even means.

[Anti Federalist]

Even if your first statement is correct, the second is not. [1]

That's because the views of the "majority of American[s]" don't really matter.

Their views (whatever they may be) are ultimately not what determines how things will go.

What determines how things will go are the particular circumstances under which a minority (and it is always a minority) either (1) imposes its will upon the rest, or (2) resists [2] the attempts of some other minority to impose its will upon the rest.

All of history is a train of contentions between active minorities. The majority of people simply go along with whatever the results of those contentions may be [3]. Thus, all that is necessary for "turning this around" is that there are enough people - not a majority, or even a plurality, but just "enough" (however much that might be) in the right places at the right times (whatever those might be) - to accomplish (2).

IOW: Minorities lead and majorities follow.

IOOW: There is always hope - but there are never guarantees.

"It's possible we will lose. It's impossible that we must lose. That is the white pill." -- Michael Malice

[1] You sense this on some level, which is why you ended up saying "I hope [...] I am wrong [that 'there is no hope']".

[2] Peaceably (by active non-compliance) and/or violently (through force or threat of force).

[3] The practice of mass democracy has deceived many people into thinking otherwise, and has deluded them into imagining that (the mass of) "The People" are somehow ultimately in charge of anything. (That's why so many politicians profess to love "our democracy" so much.)

You're right, of course, but the key word is "ultimately".

When Rome fell, for many of the same reasons the West is falling now, the western world was plunged into a "Dark Age" that lasted almost 1000 years.

It took the USSR 70 years to fail.

The Khmer Rouge failed in 7.

But look at the lives lost and bloodshed and ground lost, in "civil society".

How much better off would the people of Rome have been, or Russia or Cambodia, among so many others, had none of that happened?

But, sooner or later, things do "right themselves".

But goddamn, what a cost, when some simple vigilance and meaningful resistance would have prevented it.

I hate living in a dying empire, I hate knowing if my enemies are successful, my posterity will be annihilated.

In short, I hate living in the "Weak Men Make Bad Times" portion of the cycle.

[69360]

https://twitter.com/ChuckCallesto/st...28427812286793

Normally I am not a fan of these strap an AR on your back protests. But in this case I think it was a justified response.

[Anti Federalist]

Normally I am not a fan of these strap an AR on your back protests.

LMMFAO

Why does that not surprise me?

But in this case I think it was a justified response.

I am so relieved you approve, I'll notify my people in NM to carry on.

[Occam's Banana]

You're right, of course, but the key word is "ultimately".

When Rome fell, for many of the same reasons the West is falling now, the western world was plunged into a "Dark Age" that lasted almost 1000 years.

It took the USSR 70 years to fail.

The Khmer Rouge failed in 7.

But look at the lives lost and bloodshed and ground lost, in "civil society".

How much better off would the people of Rome have been, or Russia or Cambodia, among so many others, had none of that happened?

But, sooner or later, things do "right themselves".

But goddamn, what a cost, when some simple vigilance and meaningful resistance would have prevented it.

I hate living in a dying empire, I hate knowing if my enemies are successful, my posterity will be annihilated.

In short, I hate living in the "Weak Men Make Bad Times" portion of the cycle.

I can't really argue with any of that, since it's pretty much spot on.

Even so, there is still cause to think any such American "interregnum", if it occurs, would be relatively shorter and less severe. Unlike ancient Rome, (pre-)modern Russia, etc., America has a tradition that is distinctly and strongly "libertarian-ish" (at least, compared to all those others). And even though politically that tradition may at present be "a custom more honour'd in the breach than the observance", there is, I think, a sufficient residuum or "Remnant" [1], as broad and inchoate as it may be, so as to mitigate or ameliorate (or in some cases or some ways even prevent) the worst of any "Weak Men / Bad Times" dynamic.

With respect to human liberty, as far short of that ideal as we may have gotten, we still got much further along towards it than in any of those other times and places - and so there is much further we have to fall than they did before things sink to their level. None of which means it can't happen, of course, but despite the lack of any guarantees, there are still reasons for hope (even if it is only that things might not become as bad as they could - and thus that things might "right themselves" sooner than they otherwise would).



[1] As evidenced by things like the Ron Paul movement and the existence of these very forums, for example.

[Occam's Banana]

And right on cue, here come the distributed talking points:

https://twitter.com/tedlieu/status/1700589909390835901


https://twitter.com/davidhogg111/sta...01787605266779

Notice how they qualify the claim: "there is no [...] state [...] emergency exception [...]"

Federal, on the other hand ...

https://twitter.com/LPMisesCaucus/st...20935406518655

[Occam's Banana]

https://twitter.com/tedlieu/status/1700589909390835901

JFC ...

https://twitter.com/justinamash/stat...21945419219122

[69360]

LMMFAO

Why does that not surprise me?



I am so relieved you approve, I'll notify my people in NM to carry on.

Yeah, this time I do approve. It was in response to a massive over reach by a liberal governor. She went too far and this push back is deserved. I've always said open carry should be legal, but just because it is legal doesn't mean you should do it. But in the face of absolute BS like this public health declaration thing, I think what these people did is fine. When somebody like me thinks this is ok, you know the liberals went too far.

[ClaytonB]

[Matt Collins]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ4lQWCeST8

[Occam's Banana]

New Mexico Governor Suspends 2nd Amendment
https://odysee.com/@actualjusticewar...suspends-2nd:7
Actual Justice Warrior | 11 September 2023

In this video I discuss the Governor Of New Mexico suspending open carry and concealed carry in 2 counties due to powers she granted herself under the premise of a public health crisis.

[Anti Federalist]

I can't really argue with any of that, since it's pretty much spot on.

Even so, there is still cause to think any such American "interregnum", if it occurs, would be relatively shorter and less severe. Unlike ancient Rome, (pre-)modern Russia, etc., America has a tradition that is distinctly and strongly "libertarian-ish" (at least, compared to all those others). And even though politically that tradition may at present be "a custom more honour'd in the breach than the observance", there is, I think, a sufficient residuum or "Remnant" [1], as broad and inchoate as it may be, so as to mitigate or ameliorate (or in some cases or some ways even prevent) the worst of any "Weak Men / Bad Times" dynamic.

With respect to human liberty, as far short of that ideal as we may have gotten, we still got much further along towards it than in any of those other times and places - and so there is much further we have to fall than they did before things sink to their level. None of which means it can't happen, of course, but despite the lack of any guarantees, there are still reasons for hope (even if it is only that things might not become as bad as they could - and thus that things might "right themselves" sooner than they otherwise would).



[1] As evidenced by things like the Ron Paul movement and the existence of these very forums, for example.

Here's to hoping you are right and I am wrong.

[Anti Federalist]

https://twitter.com/AZHouseDems/stat...66724716974437

[Occam's Banana]

https://twitter.com/gunpolicy/status...69177918156933


Bernalillo County sheriff rejects gun violence health order
"It's irritating for me to see how this 30-day ban completely overshadowed the robust conversations we had with the governor on what we are going to do to curb gun violence and for people to stop being victims," BCSO Sheriff John Allen said
https://www.koat.com/article/bernali...order/45082887
Faith Egbuonu | 11 September 2023

BERNALILLO COUNTY, N.M. — Bernalillo County Sheriff John Allen said his office would not enforce the latest public health order to combat gun violence in a press conference on Monday, Sept. 11.

The announcement was in response to Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham's public health order on firearms in Albuquerque and the county. The order will ban concealed and open carry in those areas for the next 30 days after being enacted last Friday.

Allen described the order as unconstitutional and said he learned about the order just minutes before the announcement last week. The public health order was issued after an 11-year-old boy was killed in Albuquerque.

"The governor made it clear in her press conference," Allen said. "She knew we as law enforcement did not agree with the order, and as a result, this was solely her decision."

He went on to say that this order will not assist him in making the county safer for the public or his policing staff.

"This order will not do anything to curb gun violence other than punish law-abiding citizens from their constitutional right of self-defense," Allen said.

Allen also cited political violence as a reason not to enforce the public health order.

BCSO Sheriff John Allen's plan to address ongoing crime

• Ask Crime Reduction director of BCSO to lead task force of various law enforcement agencies to focus on crimes with firearms
• Continuous meetings for early intervention for adult and youth offenders
• Requesting Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham to consider a special session to address crime for the entire state of New Mexico

"We need to look at solutions to address violent crimes involving juveniles with firearms, adults with firearms, pretrial release and harsh penalties for violent crimes which also involve a firearm," Allen said.

"The planning will and continue with the mayor of Albuquerque, Tim Keller, chief of New Mexico State Police Troy Whistler, chief of the Albuquerque Police Department Harold Medina, and District Attorney Sam Bregman. I will also be contacting federal entities such as the FBI and the U.S. Attorney to assist us and make sure we work as a team to curb gun violence and so many other crimes that we see in Bernalillo County," Allen said.

Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham sent KOAT a statement following BCSO's rejection:

"I don’t need a lecture on constitutionality from Sheriff Allen: what I need is action. What we need is for leaders to stand up for the victims of violent crime. We need law enforcement, district attorneys, public officials, school leaders and state agencies to use every single tool at their disposal to stop this violence. Period.

This is an administration that has treated the gun violence epidemic as the crisis that it is. We’ve passed common-sense gun legislation, including red flag laws, domestic violence protections, a ban on straw purchases, and safe storage laws; dedicated hundreds of millions of dollars to a fund specifically to help law enforcement hire and retain officers; increased penalties for violent offenders and provided massive support to intervention programs.

We've given you the tools, Sheriff Allen— now stop being squeamish about using them. I will not back down from doing what’s right and I will always put the safety of the people of New Mexico first.”

[Occam's Banana]

[underline emphasis added - OB]

Allen described the order as unconstitutional and [...]

[...] also cited political violence as a reason not to enforce the public health order.

BCSO Sheriff John Allen's plan to address ongoing crime

• [bureaucrats should blah-blah-blah]
• [bureaucrats should also yada-yada-yada]
• [politicians should argle-bargle diddly-do]

[more vacuous PR-speak gibber-jabber about "look[ing] at solutions" and "planning" and "work[ing] as a team" ]

The so-called "public health order" is "political violence".

So either:
(1) do your goddam job & arrest the bitch who issued it, or
(2) simply STFU and obey the orders you've been given.

In any case, please just spare us all the spinelessly half-assed, mealy-mouthed "both sides" pandering.

[Matt Collins]

Nice to see law enforcement isn't just "following orders"

[Occam's Banana]

https://twitter.com/tomselliott/stat...18616955806179

[Occam's Banana]

Nice to see law enforcement isn't just "following orders"

I suppose it is, in the same way it's "nice" to see firefighters who aren't just setting peoples' homes on fire.

But if they're not also putting out fires, then what is even the point of them?

(Not doing the opposite of what one is supposed to do should be the mundane, expected, and entirely un-noteworthy default.)

[acptulsa]

Another "emergency". One after the other.

[Matt Collins]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmtYHO0svtE

[nobody's_hero]

Normally I am not a fan of these strap an AR on your back protests. But in this case I think it was a justified response.

What if she charges them with insurrection? Don't see why she couldn't, with such a broad definition for that these days:

Your support:

[Dr.3D]

Seems like there should be a penalty when someone tries to violate the U.S. Constitution.

At the very least, she should have to pay the legal fees associated with any suits she loses.

[Occam's Banana]

AG says he won’t defend Lujan Grisham administration in gun order lawsuits
https://nmpoliticalreport.com/2023/0...rder-lawsuits/
Nicole Maxwell | 12 September 2023

New Mexico Attorney General Raúl Torrez sent Gov. Michelle Luan Grisham a letter telling her that his office would not defend her in the four cases so far filed in federal court challenging the Sept. 8 public health order.

The order puts a temporary ban on firearms in Albuquerque and Bernalillo County as well as imposing drug monitoring and other measures.

“Though I recognize my statutory obligation as New Mexico’s chief legal officer to defend state officials when they are sued in their official capacity, my duty to uphold and defend the constitutional rights of every citizen takes precedence,” Torrez’s letter stated. “Simply put, I do not believe that the Emergency Order will have any meaningful impact on public safety but, more importantly, I do not believe it passes constitutional muster.”

Torrez shared his anger and frustration about survivors and victims of gun violence.

“The tragic deaths of 5-year-old Galilea Samaniego in a recent drive-by shooting and 11-year-old Froylan Villegas in a road rage incident should serve as a wakeup call to everyone,” Torrez said in the letter. “I encourage you to engage in a more thoughtful and deliberative process with members of the New Mexico Legislature rather than taking unilateral action that infringes on the constitutional rights of law-abiding citizens while having little if any discernible impact on the underlying dynamics driving gun violence in our community.”

Torrez agrees with the need for a debate about the effects of gun violence, “but the issuance of an executive order in violation of core constitutional principles is not the appropriate method for bringing about such a debate, and its flawed legal foundation is likely to obscure rather than highlight, meaningful solutions.”

Bernalillo County Sheriff John Allen announced Monday that his office would not be enforcing the order citing its alleged unconstitutionality, to which Lujan Grisham responded in a statement to the NM Political Report that her administration had “given you the tools, Sheriff Allen — now stop being squeamish about using them. I will not back down from doing what’s right and I will always put the safety of the people of New Mexico first.”

The four federal lawsuits were filed by the National Association for Gun Rights, We the Patriots USA, a class action lawsuit filed by Shawn Blas, a Bernalillo County resident and Randy Donk and Gun Owners of America.

Other groups are planning to file lawsuits against Lujan Grisham and her administration.

Two of these groups are the New Mexico Shooting Sports Association and the Republican Party of New Mexico.

[Anti Federalist]

https://twitter.com/tomselliott/stat...18616955806179

I think this is the complete interview:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1701591562021728336

[Occam's Banana]

https://twitter.com/gunpolicy/status...98939286691923

[Matt Collins]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQPnn_x4hkw

[Matt Collins]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIptpU8UlUw

[A Son of Liberty]

https://twitter.com/gunpolicy/status...98939286691923

Tread lightly when you find leftists agreeing with you. There is a reason, and it is not aligned with yours.

[ClaytonB]