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Thread: Trump indictment #4: 2020 election RICO conspiracy [Fulton county GA]

  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Ever read Sinclair Lewis?



    When fascism consumes America it will come wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross. And most Republicans will welcome it with open arms, as the compromise with a lesser evil that may save a lot of children from getting sexually mutilated, if they keep their word this time.
    It's a good thing then, that as you point out, Trump is not a Christian, and his supporters have no love for the Republican party. The flag might be an issue, because they do love the flag.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.



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  3. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    It's a good thing then, that as you point out, Trump is not a Christian, and his supporters have no love for the Republican party. The flag might be an issue, because they do love the flag.
    Except, I can’t tell you how many flag carrying republicans I’ve come across who claim that he was “Sent by God”.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  4. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by PAF View Post
    Except, I can’t tell you how many flag carrying republicans I’ve come across who claim that he was “Sent by God”.
    Biden was sent by God as punishment for abandoning the first guy he sent.

    They tried to wrap him in the flag too, but the visuals were pretty bad:



    And let's not forget what happened when Senator Fetterman tried to wrap himself in the flag:

    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 08-17-2023 at 05:16 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  5. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post
    It's a good thing then, that as you point out, Trump is not a Christian, and his supporters have no love for the Republican party. The flag might be an issue, because they do love the flag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.



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  7. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    The only difference I see is that theye will, if pushed to that point, kill us all with a bio-weapon virus.

    COVID was the beta test to prove they could do it.
    <Eris variant considers entering the chat>

    naa crazy talk, going into the fall....
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  8. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    The Constitution also says that a President cannot be convicted of crimes that occurred during their term - the only remedy for that is impeachment and prosecution by the Senate.
    While Department of Justice policy says that a sitting President can't be tried or convicted of a crime, there's nothing the Constitution that says so, and the Supreme Court has never said so. See the following articles:

    https://www.law.virginia.edu/news/20...sions-immunity

    https://academic.oup.com/book/32574/chapter/270366527
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  9. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    While Department of Justice policy says that a sitting President can't be tried or convicted of a crime, there's nothing the Constitution that says so, and the Supreme Court has never said so. See the following articles:

    https://www.law.virginia.edu/news/20...sions-immunity

    https://academic.oup.com/book/32574/chapter/270366527
    Can you name a specific action that Trump took that you believe is the strongest evidence that he has committed a crime related to any of his four indictments?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  10. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    We got Covid in late 2019/early 2020 because of Trump. I'm only saying that the timing of the pandemic was due to getting rid of Trump. They had many other objectives as well, it was a global pandemic. But they were more broad goals and less timely.
    COVID was to get Trump out, but then they also stole the election to get Trump out?

  11. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    COVID was to get Trump out, but then they also stole the election to get Trump out?
    Wouldn't have been able to change all the election rules in just about every state over night without "an emergency".

    Quit being stupid. It's idiotic questions like that that actually make me MORE sympathetic to Trump.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  12. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Wouldn't have been able to change all the election rules in just about every state over night without "an emergency".

    Quit being stupid. It's idiotic questions like that that actually make me MORE sympathetic to Trump.
    Oh wow, well good thing we don't have to worry about that anymore now that the "emergency" is over. Dannno definitely won't call the next election rigged.

  13. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Oh wow, well good thing we don't have to worry about that anymore now that the "emergency" is over. Dannno definitely won't call the next election rigged.
    So, have they returned the election rules to their pre-covid state?? No?? Well, then the same problems will continue to exist.

    Funny that you think just because the "emergency" is over that the rules set up during that emergency would also be over. So funny.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  14. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Oh wow, well good thing we don't have to worry about that anymore now that the "emergency" is over. Dannno definitely won't call the next election rigged.
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    So, have they returned the election rules to their pre-covid state?? No?? Well, then the same problems will continue to exist.

    Funny that you think just because the "emergency" is over that the rules set up during that emergency would also be over. So funny.
    Not to mention, they have already cheated in 2024 by indicting Trump over BS charges.. novel legal theories with evidence that is full of Constitutionally protected speech.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  16. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    So, have they returned the election rules to their pre-covid state?? No?? Well, then the same problems will continue to exist.

    Funny that you think just because the "emergency" is over that the rules set up during that emergency would also be over. So funny.
    First, which election rule is it that was changed during covid that you're concerned hasn't gone back?


    Second, "emergency rules" aren't really a requirement for someone who thinks that US black ops special forces raided a German datacenter to recover servers hosting Venezuelan software that stole the election.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  17. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Well, welcome back...and only some of us do.

    I've said it before, I'll say it again, I was not before, nor am now, a huge fan of Trump, but I know this: he drives my enemies stark raving mad.

    I'll vote for him just because of that.
    That is also what complies me to consider him. Lol.
    The wisdom of Swordy:

    On bringing the troops home
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They are coming home, all the naysayers said they would never leave Syria and then they said they were going to stay in Iraq forever.

    It won't take very long to get them home but it won't be overnight either but Iraq says they can't stay and they are coming home just like Trump said.

    On fighting corruption:
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump had to donate the "right way" and hang out with the "right people" in order to do business in NYC and Hollyweird and in order to investigate and expose them.
    Fascism Defined

  18. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    First, which election rule is it that was changed during covid that you're concerned hasn't gone back?
    It'd be easier to go the other way...

    Here's a list from a left-wing site of all the covid-related changes - some permanent, some temporary that were subsequently made permanent, some that went back.
    https://www.brennancenter.org/our-wo...roundup-2020-0

    States That Took Substantial Legislative Steps to Support Voting During the Pandemic
    Among the 29 states and the District of Columbia that enacted expansive voting laws, seven states stand out for particularly ambitious legislative action to protect the right to vote in the face of significant constraints posed by the pandemic. These measures aimed to smooth election administration and protect voters and election workers from Covid-19. California, Connecticut, Massachusetts, New York, Nevada, Utah, and Virginia all made substantial changes to their election laws this year to preserve safe access to the ballot box.

    California passed legislation to affirmatively mail ballots to all voters and set strict standards for polling place closures.footnote2_kq74lif2
    Connecticut passed a broad bill to expand absentee access, allow drop boxes, authorize preprocessing of mailed ballots, and expand options for early in-person voting. Only the early voting provisions, however, are permanent.footnote3_zqh0mny3
    Massachusetts expanded options and eligibility for absentee and in-person early voting, set temporary standards for polling place closures that required election officials to look at disparate racial impact, and mailed absentee ballot applications to all voters. These changes were largely temporary; the only significant permanent reform was the expansion of in-person early voting options.footnote4_f10y9t34
    New York made a range of temporary and permanent changes to their mail and absentee ballot processes so that every New Yorker could vote by mail during the pandemic. The permanent changes included a notice and cure opportunity for rejected absentee ballots and a statutory presumption that ballots lacking a postmark were returned on time.footnote5_ln0sxn45
    Nevada enacted new legislation requiring counties to keep a certain number of polling places open and mailed ballots to all voters. Nevada’s automatic voter registration (AVR) and same-day registration (SDR) statutes were also in place for the first time this year.footnote6_345x51s6
    Utah passed a number of permanent reforms in an omnibus elections bill aimed at responding to Covid-19, including creating online voter registration, authorizing mail ballot drop boxes, and expanding the voter registration deadline.footnote7_5ecqrt87
    Virginia took the most ambitious steps to pass expansive legislation. After flipping the state House of Delegates and gaining a trifecta in 2019, Virginia Democrats enacted legislation to adopt automatic voter registration and same-day registration, repeal the photo ID requirement, allow no-excuse absentee voting, create a permanent absentee voter list option, and expand options for in-person early voting. These changes were made largely before the worst impacts of Covid-19 took hold.footnote8_lhzxscu8
    Laws enacted to expand voting access were passed primarily in states where Democrats have full control of state government. (Democrats in Massachusetts have legislative supermajorities that allow them to override the Republican governor’s vetoes.) The notable exception is Utah, where Republicans passed a number of important pro-voter reforms.

    Types of Legislation That Enabled Voting During Covid-19
    As highlighted below, and contrary to expectations, states with varying partisan makeups also enacted laws to facilitate voting during the pandemic. Indeed, three states with divided government broke years of partisan gridlock on election law issues to pass voting legislation that protected voters from Covid-19: Louisiana, Michigan, and North Carolina.

    Louisiana passed 10 bills that included both expansive and restrictive voting provisions. Expansive provisions included allowing preprocessing of absentee ballots, loosening the witness requirement for mail ballots, expanding early in-person voting, implementing standards for closing or consolidating polling places, and increasing poll worker pay. Louisiana also passed two restrictive provisions limiting who could witness absentee ballot applications and allowing police at polling places. Michigan passed four bills, including legislation to allow mail ballot preprocessing the day before Election Day and to create a notice and cure opportunity for mail ballots. North Carolina passed four bills, one of which authorized online mail ballot requests.

    Broadly, pandemic-driven voting legislation focused on three themes: expanding access to or altering the mail voting process, instituting new standards for polling places, and strengthening poll worker recruitment.

    1. Vote By Mail
    Eight states expanded eligibility to vote by mail. Connecticut, Delaware, Massachusetts, Missouri, New Hampshire, New York, Virginia, and South Carolina all enacted legislation to expand vote-by-mail eligibility in some way. Only Virginia expanded eligibility permanently, and only New Hampshire did so in a divided government.
    Four states enacted new notice and cure processes. Michigan, New Jersey, New York, and Virginia all created or expanded notice and cure processes through new legislation. In contrast to the expanded eligibility statutes, three of these four statutes were permanent reforms. Virginia is the only state of the four that didn’t face litigation in 2020 related to its notice and cure policy (or the absence thereof). And Michigan is the only state of these four without a Democratic trifecta in state government.
    Four states and the District of Columbia provided prepaid postage for all mail ballots. D.C., Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, and Virginia passed new legislation to provide prepaid postage for mail ballots. Only Maryland’s statute was a permanent change.
    Four states extended ballot receipt deadlines. California, Massachusetts, Mississippi, and New York extended their mail ballot receipt deadlines via statute. This lineup of states is notable in that it includes Democratic trifectas, a Republican trifecta, and a state with divided government; however, only New York’s change was permanent.
    Five states permitted preprocessing of mail ballots. Connecticut, Idaho, Louisiana, Michigan, and Vermont passed legislation authorizing election officials to begin processing mail ballots at some point before Election Day. These states represent Democratic trifectas, Republican trifectas, and divided governments.
    2. Polling Places
    Long lines and confusion during the primary elections conducted during the early months of the pandemic led several states to take legislative action to ensure polling places stayed open during early voting and on Election Day. Nine states and the District of Columbia instituted new standards for polling place closures and consolidations to guaranty a minimum number of polling places remained open.footnote9_9lfy4cs9 These reforms happened in states with Democratic trifectas, Republican trifectas, and divided government. And most of these reforms were permanent — only D.C., California, and Massachusetts’s legislation was temporary.

    Five states and D.C. set specific quotas for the number of open polling places. These were California, D.C., Iowa, Massachusetts, Nebraska, and Nevada. The most common reform was a statute requiring a specific number of polling places to be open on Election Day. Some states used a raw number, while others used a ratio of registered voters per polling place. Massachusetts’s temporary legislation was unique in that it specifically required election commissioners to consider whether polling place changes would have disparate adverse impacts based on race, national origin, disability, income, or age.
    Four states required election officials to follow specific processes for closing or consolidating polling places. Delaware, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, and Virginia passed legislation requiring election officials to use specific processes and pre-election timelines when closing or consolidating polling places.
    Tennessee and D.C. established notice procedures for election officials when closing or consolidating polling places. These procedures minimize voter confusion by ensuring voters know where to go to vote.
    3. Poll Workers
    Seven states passed new legislation focused on poll worker recruitment, which became a particular challenge during the Covid-19 pandemic.

    Four states and D.C. relaxed standards for who may serve as a poll worker. D.C., Illinois, Massachusetts, Utah, and Virginia expanded poll worker eligibility requirements by lowering age restrictions or eliminating county residency rules.
    Three states increased poll worker compensation. Louisiana, Mississippi, and North Carolina used legislation to bolster poll worker recruitment efforts by increasing poll worker compensation temporarily.
    Note that when they say: "Protect the right to vote" or "Support voting" or things like that, what they really mean are steps to rig the voting process to advantage a certain party over another.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  19. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Can you name a specific action that Trump took that you believe is the strongest evidence that he has committed a crime related to any of his four indictments?
    Several. For starters:

    Obstruction of the government's efforts to recover the presidential records that Trump had no right to possess. Whether they were classified is immaterial.

    Divulging classified defense information to persons without the clearance to view them.

    After the safe harbor date in the Electoral Count Act had passed attempting to have the Georgia Secretary of State "find" additional votes for him after being told by the Secretary that Trump's claims of election fraud never happened.

    Having his agents (e.g., Giuliani) lie to the Georgia subcommittee about irregularities in the Fulton County vote counting in an attempt to change the final count.

    Of course none of this has anything to do with whether the Constitution prohibits trying a sitting President for a crime.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  20. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Several. For starters:

    Obstruction of the government's efforts to recover the presidential records that Trump had no right to possess. Whether they were classified is immaterial.
    Highly debatable. Also, if convicted, we better be able to see what records Trump "took" that "he had no right to possess".. at minimum, let somebody like Rand view them in a SCIF so he can tell us what his opinion is on it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Divulging classified defense information to persons without the clearance to view them.
    This one is total fake news.. Trump wasn't holding up classified defense information, he was holding up a newspaper article that discussed said information, and said he should have declassified it. He only told the person what was publicly known, which was in the news article.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    After the safe harbor date in the Electoral Count Act had passed attempting to have the Georgia Secretary of State "find" additional votes for him after being told by the Secretary that Trump's claims of election fraud never happened.
    Total bull$#@!. He wasn't asking to find votes FOR him, he was asking them to find fraudulent votes that they could subtract out. There is nothing wrong with that, it's totally normal. Also specifically part of the first amendment, the right to redress grievances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Having his agents (e.g., Giuliani) lie to the Georgia subcommittee about irregularities in the Fulton County vote counting in an attempt to change the final count.
    What evidence do you have they were lying? You don't even have evidence they were wrong..
    Last edited by dannno; 08-18-2023 at 06:19 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  21. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Several. For starters:

    Obstruction of the government's efforts to recover the presidential records that Trump had no right to possess. Whether they were classified is immaterial.

    Divulging classified defense information to persons without the clearance to view them.

    After the safe harbor date in the Electoral Count Act had passed attempting to have the Georgia Secretary of State "find" additional votes for him after being told by the Secretary that Trump's claims of election fraud never happened.

    Having his agents (e.g., Giuliani) lie to the Georgia subcommittee about irregularities in the Fulton County vote counting in an attempt to change the final count.

    Of course none of this has anything to do with whether the Constitution prohibits trying a sitting President for a crime.
    Are you better versed in Constitutional Law than Alan Derschowitz?

    “I predict there’ll be some convictions,” Dershowitz said during an appearance on “Bannon’s War Room,” a podcast hosted by former White House chief strategist Stephen Bannon. “I think the strategy is to get bad convictions, but to get them fast in New York and Florida, in Washington, and in Fulton County.”

    Dershowitz argued these convictions will be reversed, but not until after the election.

    https://thehill.com/regulation/court...mp-indictment/
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  22. #199
    As Jimmy Dore pointed out recently, there's been a longstanding "honor among thieves" practice of not prosecuting your political opponents, which kind of calls into question why they broke that tradition in Trump's case.

    It doesn't have to be a good reason, but I'm guessing there is (at least) one.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  23. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Are you better versed in Constitutional Law than Alan Derschowitz?

    https://thehill.com/regulation/court...mp-indictment/

    Are you a fan of all of Epstein's lawyers or just this one?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.



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  25. #201
    "Democracy Is At Stake" | Part Of The Problem 1026
    On this episode of Part Of The Problem, Dave and Robbie take a look at a supercut of the media having a different tone about the justice system being used in political beefs, and a panic over Donald Trump on a recent episode of Morning Joe.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JrfGF4nGsY

  26. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Are you a fan of all of Epstein's lawyers or just this one?
    He's the only one who helped get Epstein ultimately arrested by signing onto the lawsuit to make the civil case documents public that I'm aware of, so I'm guessing there wasn't any dirt on him.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  27. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    He's the only one who helped get Epstein ultimately arrested by signing onto the lawsuit to make the civil case documents public that I'm aware of, so I'm guessing there wasn't any dirt on him.
    So he's the best Zionist pedovore defender, in your opinion?

  28. #204
    So typical of the Count...
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    COVID was to get Trump out, but then they also stole the election to get Trump out?
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Wouldn't have been able to change all the election rules in just about every state over night without "an emergency".

    Quit being stupid. It's idiotic questions like that that actually make me MORE sympathetic to Trump.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Oh wow, well good thing we don't have to worry about that anymore now that the "emergency" is over.
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    So, have they returned the election rules to their pre-covid state?? No?? Well, then the same problems will continue to exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    First, which election rule is it that was changed during covid that you're concerned hasn't gone back?
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Here's a pretty damned long list from a left-wing site of all the covid-related changes - some permanent, some temporary that were subsequently made permanent, some that went back.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    <crickets>
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  29. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Highly debatable. Also, if convicted, we better be able to see what records Trump "took" that "he had no right to possess".. at minimum, let somebody like Rand view them in a SCIF so he can tell us what his opinion is on it. \
    The Presidential Records Act is clear: at the conclusion of a President's term presidential records belong to the National Archives. In addition, these records had been subpoenaed and Trump had a duty to return them.


    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Total bull$#@!. He wasn't asking to find votes FOR him, he was asking them to find fraudulent votes that they could subtract out. There is nothing wrong with that, it's totally normal. Also specifically part of the first amendment, the right to redress grievances.
    Bull$#@! (which is what Trump's own Attorney General had told him his claims of fraud were). Georgia had already audited the voting results three times and had certified them in accordance with Georgia law.

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    What evidence do you have they were lying? You don't even have evidence they were wrong..
    Giuliani has already admitted his claims that two Fulton County poll workers manipulated ballots were defamatory. By definition, a defamatory claim is a false claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Are you better versed in Constitutional Law than Alan Derschowitz?
    There's nothing about constitutional law in the article you linked to. Try again.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  30. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    The Presidential Records Act is clear: at the conclusion of a President's term presidential records belong to the National Archives. In addition, these records had been subpoenaed and Trump had a duty to return them.
    They had them.. Trump didn't take anything he wasn't supposed to that the National Archives didn't have a copy of. Lookup the portion of the PRA that says "otherwise has access".

    The Trump Warrant Had No Legal Basis
    A former president’s rights under the Presidential Records Act trump the statutes the FBI cited to justify the Mar-a-Lago raid.
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-tru...nd-11661170684


    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Bull$#@! (which is what Trump's own Attorney General had told him his claims of fraud were). Georgia had already audited the voting results three times and had certified them in accordance with Georgia law.
    That's not even an answer or related to anything I said..

    He wasn't asking to find votes FOR him, he was asking them to find fraudulent votes that they could subtract out. There is nothing wrong with that, it's totally normal. Also specifically part of the first amendment, the right to redress grievances.
    And who cares if they "claim" they did an audit? We know they weren't fully audited, we know they didn't do signature matching.. they just "re-counted" a bunch of fraudulent ballots and claimed they were "audited". That's more like a recount, not a full audit..


    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Giuliani has already admitted his claims that two Fulton County poll workers manipulated ballots were defamatory. By definition, a defamatory claim is a false claim.
    His attorney argued they were defamatory per se (meaning the statements were damaging), not "with actual malice" (meaning Guiliani knew the claims were false at the time). That was an argument made to save him time and money in the lawsuit - basically "even if my client's statements were false and damaged the defendants, let's assume they did so we don't have to waste court time... he did so unknowingly and therefore this is Constitutionally protected free speech."

    Are you sure you are an actual attorney?


    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    There's nothing about constitutional law in the article you linked to. Try again.
    Dershowitz is a Constitutional Attorney.. his opinion is that all of the cases are bad and will be overturned by higher courts. He thinks that Trump may be falsely convicted on some charges because he is a lawyer and knows that lawyers can easily fool a biased jury. Why is your opinion better than his?
    Last edited by dannno; 08-19-2023 at 01:11 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  31. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    So he's the best Zionist pedovore defender, in your opinion?
    Unknowingly, most likely, but that doesn't detract from his opinions on Constitutional law which is completely unrelated to what you are talking about.

    Part of being a lawyer is defending really bad people from time to time. There is no evidence Dershowitz was aware of the extent of Epstein's crimes in 2005.
    Last edited by dannno; 08-19-2023 at 01:11 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  32. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Unknowingly, most likely, but that doesn't detract from his opinions on Constitutional law which is completely unrelated to what you are talking about.

    Part of being a lawyer is defending really bad people from time to time. There is no evidence Dershowitz was aware of the extent of Epstein's crimes in 2005.
    Um... I don't know how much you have followed his opinions on "Constitutional law" but this might be a good place to start:
    https://www.c-span.org/video/?319161...-surveillance#!

    Make that state surveillance-loving Zionist pedovore defender.
    The enemy of my enemy may be worse than my enemy.

    I do not suffer from Trump Rearrangement Syndrome. Sorry if that triggers you.



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  34. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti-Neocon View Post
    Um... I don't know how much you have followed his opinions on "Constitutional law" but this might be a good place to start:
    https://www.c-span.org/video/?319161...-surveillance#!

    Make that state surveillance-loving Zionist pedovore defender.
    The sad thing is he may be correct to some extent, even though I believe it is bad policy to spy on Americans (I assume he was referring to Americans, although it wasn't made clear).

    The way he would likely defend it is that the government needs a warrant to come into your house or search your belongings, but they don't need a warrant to search a box left in the street. If you are sending data over a network of public infrastructure, is that data constitutionally protected, or is it more like a box left in the street? What about a box you send to a private company? Should they be allowed to send that to the government if they want to? If it's on their network, and you sent it to their private network, it belongs to them, right?

    It's a complex discussion, I always tend to side on the right to privacy.

    Did you know the Post Office needs a search warrant to search First-Class mail, but they don't need one for other classes of mail?

    I think it should be constitutionally protected, or at minimum there should be a policy of the US Govt not to spy on Americans.. but the founders didn't include it in the Constitution because the internet and data transfer over public infrastructure didn't exist. For the same reason, I don't think guns that didn't exist back at the time the Constitution was written should be infringed on by law.

    What you won't find in many of Dershowitz' opinions is his personal opinion about the way things should be. He just calls it out like he believes the law is written. So I don't hold all his opinions on law against him, because he rarely specifies whether he agrees with the law or not.

    If you really wanted a "gotcha" you should have posted his opinion on government forcing vaccinations. I don't agree with him 100% of the time, but he is generally very well educated on these types of topics and is at least worth hearing out. I would have to have a one on one debate with him to understand why he holds his position, whether he personally agrees with that position, etc.
    Last edited by dannno; 08-19-2023 at 05:39 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  35. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    So typical of the Count...
    I asked what changes remained after covid and your response was a page from 2020

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