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Thread: $3.5M in Ron Paul Dollars Stolen by the feds!

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    While I do object to the advertising in this thread for a web store, I do find contempt with those who would find the Liberty Dollar people guilty before the case has even been to a court of law.
    My purpose was twofold-- to make people aware of the raid, aware of the ron paul connection, and aware of the effort to get these Ron Paul Dollars out there and how the governmetn reacted. I have seen people in forums lament that they wish tehy had certificates so they could join the class action lawsuit, and since I now have some for sale I figured it would be good to get them in peoples hands.

    I see many peopel bidding up Ron Paul Dollars on ebay to as high as $500 for a single silver ounce, and Liberty Dollars at high prices... I know that Ron Paul fans are a big component of those who are doing this bidding (Since the RPs go for so much more than the regular issues)... so my attempt here was to let this community know that there is still a store out there- that ebay is not the only place. I don't know of another way to do it than to post here.

    The case was brought to a court of law, by the way- Liberty Services sued the federal government after the mint said dishonest things about the Liberty Dollar. They were pressing for a ruling to show that it was legal. The government moved to have the suit dismissed... and then, their next action was to sieze all the assets of Liberty Services and freeze their bank accounts.

    This effectively prevents them from paying lawyers to pursue the case they had and puts them out of business.

    The government was going to lose the case, I believe, because there is no law that the product violates... and so they shut the business down using force instead.

    That's one way to deny people their day in court. In fact, the judge who was hearing the civil case that Liberty Services brought, is the same judge that signed the siezure warrant. At the very least this is a conflict of interest.... and as far as I'm concerned its outright criminality.

    As a victim of this theft, I would hope for a little sympathy, but my point was to spread the word and to let people know that there are still libertys out there at reasonable prices.
    Liberty Dollars for sale: http://LibertyDollarUSA.com

    To understand the economics of liberty, visit: www.mises.org
    To understand the philosophy of liberty, read Atlas Shrugged.



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by MadEmperor View Post
    Ron Paul supports what is in the constitution, let the Government make coins.
    Of all the dishonest statements in your post, this is the worst. The constitution does not give the government the exclusive right to make coins. Please try reading it. The constitution states that money must be made of metal (eg: gold and silver) and thus the Liberty Dollar is constitutional money while the government money is not.

    Ron Paul cannot "support the liberty dollar" but that does not mean that the Liberty Dollar was profiteering off of Ron Paul-- it was a marketing effort to support Ron Paul like any other product made which references the campaign (from tshirts to bumper stickers) and the campaign received a cut of the proceeds as a donation from the company (the only legal way to do it.)

    I find it disheartening that you endorse the theft of millions in valuables, the freezing of bank accounts, preventing a fair trial, and without due process, or any conviction or any charges.... and instead want to see the victim incarcerated, depsite having committed no crime, merely based on your misguided sense of "patriotism".

    A patriot shows more allegance to the constitution, not the current administration, and you are choosing the latter over the former here.
    Liberty Dollars for sale: http://LibertyDollarUSA.com

    To understand the economics of liberty, visit: www.mises.org
    To understand the philosophy of liberty, read Atlas Shrugged.



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  5. #33
    I went out the day before yesterday and bought $40 worth of the warehouse receipts and have been giving them away to people so they can join the class action suit. The $40 I spent, got me 40 of the 1/20th ounce warehouse receipts. So far I have given away five of them. I tell people not to accept the 'Federal Reserve Notes' if and when the case is won, but rather to demand the silver backing the notes.

  6. #34
    I don't think this needs in the Tea party section. No offense but we need threads about donations and rallying people together at the top for RON PAUL. Not the Liberty Dollar. I agree with everything you have said, but not in this subforum.
    Go check out my vocal covers on Youtube. Thanks!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVdQYPR6lEo

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyDollarUSA-com View Post
    Of all the dishonest statements in your post, this is the worst. The constitution does not give the government the exclusive right to make coins. Please try reading it. The constitution states that money must be made of metal (eg: gold and silver) and thus the Liberty Dollar is constitutional money while the government money is not.

    Ron Paul cannot "support the liberty dollar" but that does not mean that the Liberty Dollar was profiteering off of Ron Paul-- it was a marketing effort to support Ron Paul like any other product made which references the campaign (from tshirts to bumper stickers) and the campaign received a cut of the proceeds as a donation from the company (the only legal way to do it.)

    I find it disheartening that you endorse the theft of millions in valuables, the freezing of bank accounts, preventing a fair trial, and without due process, or any conviction or any charges.... and instead want to see the victim incarcerated, depsite having committed no crime, merely based on your misguided sense of "patriotism".

    A patriot shows more allegance to the constitution, not the current administration, and you are choosing the latter over the former here.

    If you work at Liberty dollar, I sincerely hope you face jail time. I don't think it would be justice served unless the owners and top managers served time.

    The Owners of Liberty dollar made a clear attempt to pass of their currency as that which is issued by the fed res (i'm not saying I support the fed res, that is a different issue) and that is faud. Further more, dragging Ron Paul unwillingly into this is low.

    I can only hope that the seizure is the first step to breaking up this pyramid scheme. For once, the government did something right.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    I The $40 I spent, got me 40 of the 1/20th ounce warehouse receipts.
    That's a fantastic deal. On ebay the $40 would get you 4 of the 1/20th ounce reciepts. Where did you find them? That's actually significantly less than I paid for mine over a year ago, though mine are 1/10th ounce receipts.
    Liberty Dollars for sale: http://LibertyDollarUSA.com

    To understand the economics of liberty, visit: www.mises.org
    To understand the philosophy of liberty, read Atlas Shrugged.

  9. #37
    I went to my local RCO and told him I needed to get some for that purpose.

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by MadEmperor View Post
    and that is faud.
    Well, it think YOU are a FAUD!


  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by MadEmperor View Post
    If you work at Liberty dollar, I sincerely hope you face jail time.
    You know, that's the kind of thing that I don't think really needs to be said. That's just plain rude.

    The Owners of Liberty dollar made a clear attempt to pass of their currency as that which is issued by the fed res
    That's an asinine assertion, and its a bald faced lie- simply look at the website and you can see that this is not the case. Its explicitly stated that it is not from the federal reserve.

    and that is faud.
    You really need to show fraud. Its really easy to make unsupported assertions like that, but if you have any integrity at all, you should back them up. Or are you just here to throw mud?

    Further more, dragging Ron Paul unwillingly into this is low.
    Seems like you persist in misrepresenting the situation there, no matter what the facts are, eh? Ron Pauls likenes was used on this proiduct just like it is used on many products done by independant supporters whose efforts are to market the campaign and the message. These items had his likeness, and part of his message on them, and were widely desired and popular. Furthermore, the effort benefited the campaing by underwriting a contribution. These facts you persistently ignore and try to misrepresent hte situation as somehow underhanded and in opposition to Mr. Paul.

    I can only hope that the seizure is the first step to breaking up this pyramid scheme. For once, the government did something right.
    This is the third time you have used the frase "Pyeramid scheme". However, there was nothing pyramidal about it... I think you just want to smear it... cause lord knows you seem disinclined to back up your disparaging remarks with facts--- and the reason is because facts don't support your assertions.

    I don't know what your beef is-- some people just hink its wrong to sell a product for one price when the raw materials cost less (these people must walk everywhere because they won't buy a car at such a huge markup over the bulk price of iron). I won't speculate as to what you real issue is-- but the points your trying to make here do not stand up to any scrutiny and you have not supported them. So it appears your only goal is to be mean.
    Liberty Dollars for sale: http://LibertyDollarUSA.com

    To understand the economics of liberty, visit: www.mises.org
    To understand the philosophy of liberty, read Atlas Shrugged.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by MadEmperor View Post
    If you work at Liberty dollar, I sincerely hope you face jail time. I don't think it would be justice served unless the owners and top managers served time.

    The Owners of Liberty dollar made a clear attempt to pass of their currency as that which is issued by the fed res (i'm not saying I support the fed res, that is a different issue) and that is faud. Further more, dragging Ron Paul unwillingly into this is low.

    I can only hope that the seizure is the first step to breaking up this pyramid scheme. For once, the government did something right.
    Shouldn't you wait for all the facts to come out? Not being optimistic that they will receive a fair hearing is one thing, but prejudging the facts is quite another.

    The Liberty Dollar folks have been careful to maintain in their official literature that Liberty Dollars are not legal tender, are not current money, and are not coins. This is the wording in the relevant statutes, and they have taken great pains to avoid running afoul of the law in their official literature.

    This is not a done deal. This is a matter of interpretation of largely untested federal law.

    Why are you so anxious to jump on these people? Why are you prejudging this and villainizing them? What is your motive?



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    After serving two tours of duty in the Vietnam war, I was turned off by politics and have been pretty much apathetic as to the outcome of the elections. I knew if I voted I would be voting for either Bozo or Clarabell and would get a clown in the White House in either case.

    This is the first election I have ever made a contribution to a candidate and do hope it isn't too late for the United States citizens to pull their heads out and think clearly enough to stop run away government.

    Now on to the subject:
    The Liberty Dollar was an attempt to provide an alternative to the 'fake' money imposed on us by the government. If the Liberty Dollar is in fact counterfeit , then this should be determined in a court of law. What is being done to the Liberty Dollar people, is against the Constitution and thus we should be up in arms about it.

    There has been no arrest, trial, or even an answer from the original court case filed by the Liberty Dollar people about the legality of their items.

    To just make the claim the Liberty Dollar is counterfeit makes those who say so just as bad as the government! What you are doing is bypassing the due course of law and saying they are guilty till proven innocent!

    While I do object to the advertising in this thread for a web store, I do find contempt with those who would find the Liberty Dollar people guilty before the case has even been to a court of law.
    Very well put..

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyDollarUSA-com View Post
    FWIW, since you admit he's racist, this is pretty compelling evidence that his thinking isn't on the up-and-up. His conclusions are affected by this personal prejudice and thus his judgement in general shouldn't be trusted. This racism is totally relevant.
    For the record, I did not "admit he's racist", but that's another discussion entirely that has no place here -- any more than thinly-disguised advertising for commercial ventures that have no real connection to the Ron Paul campaign. It was you who injected this deliberately inflammatory, reason-trumping term into the discussion, not I.

    As for whether the Liberty Dollar pushers should be prosecuted, punished or whatever, I'd say no, they had a legal right to do what they did, even if morally it may not have been entirely on the up-and-up. I don't see that they lied about anything exactly, though they do seem to have allowed their less-than-astute customers to infer "facts" which may not have been strictly true, though certainly those inferences were to their (the sellers') benefit.

    IOW, there may be a sucker born every minute, and in a libertarian society there can be no laws designed to protect fools from themselves ... but for a Buddhist anyway the concept of "right livelihood" prohibits taking advantage of the naive even if it isn't strictly illegal.

    I agree with Steele at least in this: the attempt to get NotHaus's customers to pick up the bill for the problems he's caused himself by acting like a fool (at least) I find less than ethical. If you want to beard the lion in his den, better make sure you have bigger teeth before you start. If what you really want is martyrdom, I have no argument with that, so long as you're honest -- first with yourself -- about it.

    All I said, again, was that it seemed fishy to me, as have NotHaus's other, previous "currency" schemes. That wasn't an argument, just sharing my impression: an alternative view, as a counterpoint to the uncritical love-fest that the thread had been up till then. I also shared Edgar Steele's analysis for anyone who might be interested in investigating further. If you don't care to put the time into rebutting his detailed criticisms, that's fine with me. Like I said, I didn't think your initial post belonged here in the first place.

    Basically, the message is: Caveat Emptor. And, if you claim to be a libertarian, don't come crying to me if you got taken because you didn't do your homework.
    "In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution." --Thomas Jefferson

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Politeia View Post
    For the record, I did not "admit he's racist", but that's another discussion entirely that has no place here -- any more than thinly-disguised advertising for commercial ventures that have no real connection to the Ron Paul campaign. It was you who injected this deliberately inflammatory, reason-trumping term into the discussion, not I.

    As for whether the Liberty Dollar pushers should be prosecuted, punished or whatever, I'd say no, they had a legal right to do what they did, even if morally it may not have been entirely on the up-and-up. I don't see that they lied about anything exactly, though they do seem to have allowed their less-than-astute customers to infer "facts" which may not have been strictly true, though certainly those inferences were to their (the sellers') benefit.

    IOW, there may be a sucker born every minute, and in a libertarian society there can be no laws designed to protect fools from themselves ... but for a Buddhist anyway the concept of "right livelihood" prohibits taking advantage of the naive even if it isn't strictly illegal.

    I agree with Steele at least in this: the attempt to get NotHaus's customers to pick up the bill for the problems he's caused himself by acting like a fool (at least) I find less than ethical. If you want to beard the lion in his den, better make sure you have bigger teeth before you start. If what you really want is martyrdom, I have no argument with that, so long as you're honest -- first with yourself -- about it.

    All I said, again, was that it seemed fishy to me, as have NotHaus's other, previous "currency" schemes. That wasn't an argument, just sharing my impression: an alternative view, as a counterpoint to the uncritical love-fest that the thread had been up till then. I also shared Edgar Steele's analysis for anyone who might be interested in investigating further. If you don't care to put the time into rebutting his detailed criticisms, that's fine with me. Like I said, I didn't think your initial post belonged here in the first place.

    Basically, the message is: Caveat Emptor. And, if you claim to be a libertarian, don't come crying to me if you got taken because you didn't do your homework.
    Ever heard the phrase BUYER BEWARE?

    Honestly.
    The Liberty Dollar is NOT PROVEN TO BE COUNTERFEIT, and far as i am concerned is 100% legal and NOT counterfeit.

    But even still, given the VERY CLEARLY STATED DISCLAIMER, how can you accuse this group of forcing the consumer to bare the fruits of "their stupidity"?

    They bought it knowing full well what it was.
    You can't hold Liberty Dollar responsible for the government acting like the gestapo. But the people purchasing them sure should have known exactly what they were buying.
    If they were buying notes and not the metal itself, they bought it understanding explicitly that those notes were ONLY good so long as libertydollar remained around and solvent.

    To LDollars credit they DID remain around for TEN PLUS years, NEVER absconded with the loot, and ONLY closed down because they were raided. And now are having their 4th ammendment rights violated by a unlawful auction!

  17. #44
    Politeia--

    You continue to attack the Liberty Dollar without providing any specifics. You infer that people were mislead, but you provide no reason to believe that they were or that this was deliberate.

    It seems pretty weak to attack Bernard to call for donations for an effort to get our property back-- this presumes that he profited and that he brought it upon himself. This is Steele, and you, presuming your conclusion absent evidence. The reality is, the property stolen by the federal government was stolen from his customers, and the seizure of bank accounts prevents mounting a legal defense. Literally how else can a lawsuit be brought without raising funds?

    Finally, you mention "bernards other monetary schemese". There are no other monetary schemes- this is a great phrase to throw in there to try and paint him as a scamster who's been defrauding people-- something you want to insinuate though you can't be bothered to actually argue for. But the reality is that prior to the Liberty Dollar, he created commemorative pieces for the state of Hawaii -- regular old silver rounds sold on artistic merit. They weren't a "monetary scheme" though after the success of the Liberty Dollar (and 10 years of repeated statements by members of the federal government that the Liberty Dollar was legal) he did make a "Hawaii Dala Liberty Dollar"- much like the Ron Paul Liberty dollar and the forthcoming "Peace" anti-war Liberty Dollar-- these are simply liberty dollars with different art.

    I do wonder why so much effort to bash me and this organization which raised funds for Ron Paul?
    Liberty Dollars for sale: http://LibertyDollarUSA.com

    To understand the economics of liberty, visit: www.mises.org
    To understand the philosophy of liberty, read Atlas Shrugged.

  18. #45








    He was also recently interviewed on Freedom Watch by Judge Napolitano:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufHiZKKh9Hw#t=27m0s
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

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