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Thread: [Milei WINS!] Javier Milei, Austrian econ. prof. & ancap, runs for president of Argentina

  1. #631
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    Impressive!

    Do know or understand why it is he wants Argentina to use the USD?
    According to the AI, the following South American economies have dollarized, and have been free of central-bank-induced instability since:

    1. Ecuador - In 2000, Ecuador officially adopted the US dollar as its legal tender after abandoning its own currency, the sucre, due to high inflation and economic instability.

    2. El Salvador - El Salvador dollarized its economy in 2001, becoming the first country in the world to adopt the US Dollar as its official currency without having previously used it alongside their local currency.

    3. Panama - Since gaining independence from Colombia in 1903, Panama has used the US dollar as its official currency. The only other form of paper currency that circulates in Panama is the Balboa, which is pegged at parity with the US Dollar and issued by Panama's central bank.
    See CATO's list of Seven Myths about Dollarization in Latin America.

    For these and other reasons, Milei's policy is to annihilate the Argentinian Central Bank, and allow Argentinians free use of USD as an alternative to their own national currency. Policy wonks talk about nonsense like "currency sovereignty" as if issuing paper money is some kind of legitimate policy tool, rather than economic vandalism. "We have the right to vandalize our own country according to our own policies!" Pure insanity. As Milei noted when asked about why let the Fed implicitly set the inflation rate, his answer is that all central-banking is bad, but there are degrees of bad... the Fed is bad, the IMF is worse, but he called the Argentinian Central Bank "the worst thing in the universe." Which is a pretty accurate description since very few central-banks in the world have been more reckless with printing money out of thin-air, definitely out-stripping the outrageous inflation of the US Fed. Only destroying your economy as fast as America is destroying its own economy, when the previous policy was to destroy your economy as fast as possible, is a relative improvement. By pegging their economy to the dollar, this eliminates a lot of policy objections surrounding the minute details of currency policy.

    Ideally, Argentina would encourage its citizens to buy and sell in copper, silver and gold coins, which are the only truly durable currencies of history. But they may have to do this in a covert manner, because countries going off of the paper money system is a primary cause of the disease of being invaded or attacked by the US. What do you think is the single biggest reason that Putin is Global Enemy #1, the most hated man in the West? Because this is why -- threatening to put one of the world's Top-10 largest economies on the gold-standard is how you make the DC Leviathan see red. So, Milei announcing to the world, "Argentina will now go onto the gold-standard" would be the equivalent of sending a team of Argentinian diplomats to Washington to inform the US that Argentina desperately wants to be invaded and occupied by the US military and is willing to blow up a US building to make sure it happens. In fact, declaring to go on the gold standard would get a swifter and more violent response. Not a smart move. But dollarizing, and simultaneously loosing currency regulations so that precious-metals can be used as money without bringing down the ire of the tax authorities in Argentina, etc. is a much smarter way to achieve the same goal, without giving the psychopathic warmongers in DC a ready-made excuse to invade.
    Last edited by ClaytonB; 02-19-2024 at 02:01 PM.
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28



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  3. #632
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    Impressive!

    Do know or understand why it is he wants Argentina to use the USD?
    I haven't seen the slightest indication that he does. I've only seen evidence that Argentines want to use it, and he didn't want to prohibit them from doing so.

    You could as easily claim he wants them to use bitcoin, or pieces of silver, or goat hides, if any of his constituents want to use any of those things.



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  5. #633
    If Argentina really balanced budget in January, they deserve al credit.

    Hope it's true & they continue to do so

  6. #634
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    According to the AI, the following South American economies have dollarized, and have been free of central-bank-induced instability since:



    See CATO's list of Seven Myths about Dollarization in Latin America.

    For these and other reasons, Milei's policy is to annihilate the Argentinian Central Bank, and allow Argentinians free use of USD as an alternative to their own national currency. Policy wonks talk about nonsense like "currency sovereignty" as if issuing paper money is some kind of legitimate policy tool, rather than economic vandalism. "We have the right to vandalize our own country according to our own policies!" Pure insanity. As Milei noted when asked about why let the Fed implicitly set the inflation rate, his answer is that all central-banking is bad, but there are degrees of bad... the Fed is bad, the IMF is worse, but he called the Argentinian Central Bank "the worst thing in the universe." Which is a pretty accurate description since very few central-banks in the world have been more reckless with printing money out of thin-air, definitely out-stripping the outrageous inflation of the US Fed. Only destroying your economy as fast as America is destroying its own economy, when the previous policy was to destroy your economy as fast as possible, is a relative improvement. By pegging their economy to the dollar, this eliminates a lot of policy objections surrounding the minute details of currency policy.

    Ideally, Argentina would encourage its citizens to buy and sell in copper, silver and gold coins, which are the only truly durable currencies of history. But they may have to do this in a covert manner, because countries going off of the paper money system is a primary cause of the disease of being invaded or attacked by the US. What do you think is the single biggest reason that Putin is Global Enemy #1, the most hated man in the West? Because this is why -- threatening to put one of the world's Top-10 largest economies on the gold-standard is how you make the DC Leviathan see red. So, Milei announcing to the world, "Argentina will now go onto the gold-standard" would be the equivalent of sending a team of Argentinian diplomats to Washington to inform the US that Argentina desperately wants to be invaded and occupied by the US military and is willing to blow up a US building to make sure it happens. In fact, declaring to go on the gold standard would get a swifter and more violent response. Not a smart move. But dollarizing, and simultaneously loosing currency regulations so that precious-metals can be used as money without bringing down the ire of the tax authorities in Argentina, etc. is a much smarter way to achieve the same goal, without giving the psychopathic warmongers in DC a ready-made excuse to invade.
    Interesting - to the degree that I understand it.
    My two daughters and I were gang-raped by some of the Newcomers. It landed us in the hospital for 3 weeks as several bones were broken. I don't blame them, it was a sexual emergency and I wasn't about to go all white privilege and deny them the release they needed, especially after being stuck in a hotel for months. I see the Newcomers as family now. They are on our side and will help us stop Trump. It is a small price to pay. Anything but Trump.

    -GLP poster

  7. #635
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I haven't seen the slightest indication that he does. I've only seen evidence that Argentines want to use it, and he didn't want to prohibit them from doing so.

    You could as easily claim he wants them to use bitcoin, or pieces of silver, or goat hides, if any of his constituents want to use any of those things.
    Put that way, it makes perfect sense. Use whatever you want for currency. That said, it seems he's officially said he wants to adopt the USD, if it hasn't happened already. One central bank killed is a step in the right direction and theirs sounds like it needs killing.
    My two daughters and I were gang-raped by some of the Newcomers. It landed us in the hospital for 3 weeks as several bones were broken. I don't blame them, it was a sexual emergency and I wasn't about to go all white privilege and deny them the release they needed, especially after being stuck in a hotel for months. I see the Newcomers as family now. They are on our side and will help us stop Trump. It is a small price to pay. Anything but Trump.

    -GLP poster

  8. #636
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    Interesting - to the degree that I understand it.
    Try reading the last 40 years of geopolitical history (it goes much further back, but start here) with these goggles on: "AGENDA #1 is to cease all use of any economic good which can act as a substitute for artificial money which is created at whim by the Fed, which is effectively the world central bank." The more artificial the money, the better. Hence, the push towards CBDCs. And this is why the globalist Elites hate oil which, when you think about it, seems kind of arbitrary. Yes, "pollution", but they obviously don't actually care about pollution (how many private jets to Davos every year?), so what is the real reason? "Control", obviously, but how does oil specifically mitigate against their control? Because oil is a proxy for gold and silver, it's a currency in its own right. A thousand barrels of oil is a thousand barrels of oil, and no amount of money-printing or other central bank hocus-pocus can change that fact. So, oil, like gold and silver, represent autonomy. Also, you can store oil for a long time, and use it later on (autonomy), whereas being connected to the electrical grid is energy you can use immediately (or not), and the moment you're switched off, you're dead. Why bugs? Because wheat and livestock are also autonomy. They can create factories that breed megatons of insect protein, while retaining total, centralized, push-button control over the world economy. At least, that's their fever-dream. But they know that can't work with standard crops and livestock which have to be widely scattered over large stretches of rural land, which requires their fat-ass police agencies to actually, you know, go somewhere, and that's just too hard.

    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  9. #637
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    Put that way, it makes perfect sense. Use whatever you want for currency.
    I like to call it the Ron Paul Plan. I can't think of anyone who did more to popularize it.

  10. #638
    Quote Originally Posted by vita3 View Post
    If Argentina really balanced budget in January, they deserve al credit.

    Hope it's true & they continue to do so
    @vita3

    Argentina Announces Financial Surplus in January – the First in 12 Years

    https://www.breitbart.com/latin-amer...irst-12-years/

    CHRISTIAN K. CARUZO 19 Feb 2024

    Economy Minister Luis “Toto” Caputo announced over the weekend that Argentina registered a roughly $620 million financial surplus in January, the first positive financial result of its kind experienced by the South American country in 12 years.

    The surplus, according to the Argentine government, is the outcome of a primary surplus and the payment of interest on the public debt. January’s results are the first surplus since August 2012 and the first January surplus since 2011.

    “This is the first time since August 2012 that the National Government spends less than it collects, and that debt interest payments do not leave the public accounts in the red,” a statement from the Office of the President of Argentina read.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  11. #639
    resident Javier Milei anticipates that he is near materialising his idea of long-held aim of dollarisation, claiming that Argentina has an “85.7 percent chance” of being able to finalise the process.

    "We have an 85.7 percent chance of being able to dollarise. If we finish cleaning up financial assets and complete the instant reform of the financial system instantly, we could already dollarise but because it’s not instant we cannot,” insisted the head of state in a radio interview.

    He revealed that, the government estimates that it will clean up the balance of the Central Bank by midyear.

    “Dollarisation is always at a market rate. When you dollarise, you’re left without a monetary policy, that’s why you have to adapt the financial system because ultimately you have no lender,” he underlined.

    https://www.batimes.com.ar/news/econ...ollarise.phtml

    What does that bit in bold mean?
    My two daughters and I were gang-raped by some of the Newcomers. It landed us in the hospital for 3 weeks as several bones were broken. I don't blame them, it was a sexual emergency and I wasn't about to go all white privilege and deny them the release they needed, especially after being stuck in a hotel for months. I see the Newcomers as family now. They are on our side and will help us stop Trump. It is a small price to pay. Anything but Trump.

    -GLP poster

  12. #640
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    “Dollarisation is always at a market rate. When you dollarise, you’re left without a monetary policy, that’s why you have to adapt the financial system because ultimately you have no lender,” he underlined.

    https://www.batimes.com.ar/news/econ...ollarise.phtml

    What does that bit in bold mean?
    "Monetary policy" just means "how fast the central bank prints money out of thin-air". "Tight policy" means they print money fast. "Loose policy" means they print really, really fast. The Fed has been in permanent "loose-money policy" since the 2008 housing collapse, aka QE Forever (Note the link is from 2012... that's how long we've been on this roller-coaster-from-hell...)

    Most of the time, the way that a Central Bank actually "prints money" is by purchasing bonds from their government. So, when the Federal Reserve wants to print another $100 billion dollars (also known as any given Tuesday), they ring up the Treasury and put in an order for $100 billion dollars of US Treasury Bonds. The idea is that the Bond market itself will arbitrage the risk of hyper-inflation -- if the Fed "prints too much", the yields on bonds goes down (as people are less interested in holding them), and this is a "feedback signal" to the Fed that it's "printing too much". That's all purely hypothetical though, since the central banking system also controls the financial markets (including most large, institutional bond-holders) through financial regulations. So, you know, most bond-holders can't "just sell" even if they wanted to. Which means that the whole thing is a giant charade. And even if it wasn't a charade, it would still be evil because it's out-and-out robbery of all US citizens (and ultimately, all holders of dollars and dollar-denominated assets).

    tl;dr: the Fed is the US government's "lender", where the loan occurs through "purchase" of a Bond which will one day later be exchanged back with "interest" which is the mythical "interest on the national debt" which we taxpayers are forced to pay to the Fed for the privilege of being robbed by them. So, Milei is simply saying that they won't have a central bank, and so their government won't be able to steal from its citizens in this way, that is, it will have "no lender", no central-bank.
    Last edited by ClaytonB; 02-19-2024 at 08:13 PM.
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28



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  14. #641
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    "Monetary policy" just means "how fast the central bank prints money out of thin-air". "Tight policy" means they print money fast. "Loose policy" means they print really, really fast. The Fed has been in permanent "loose-money policy" since the 2008 housing collapse, aka QE Forever (Note the link is from 2012... that's how long we've been on this roller-coaster-from-hell...)

    Most of the time, the way that a Central Bank actually "prints money" is by purchasing bonds from their government. So, when the Federal Reserve wants to print another $100 billion dollars (also known as any given Tuesday), they ring up the Treasury and put in an order for $100 billion dollars of US Treasury Bonds. The idea is that the Bond market itself will arbitrage the risk of hyper-inflation -- if the Fed "prints too much", the yields on bonds goes down (as people are less interested in holding them), and this is a "feedback signal" to the Fed that it's "printing too much". That's all purely hypothetical though, since the central banking system also controls the financial markets (including most large, institutional bond-holders) through financial regulations. So, you know, most bond-holders can't "just sell" even if they wanted to. Which means that the whole thing is a giant charade. And even if it wasn't a charade, it would still be evil because it's out-and-out robbery of all US citizens (and ultimately, all holders of dollars and dollar-denominated assets).

    tl;dr: the Fed is the US government's "lender", where the loan occurs through "purchase" of a Bond which will one day later be exchanged back with "interest" which is the mythical "interest on the national debt" which we taxpayers are forced to pay to the Fed for the privilege of being robbed by them. So, Milei is simply saying that they won't have a central bank, and so their government won't be able to steal from its citizens in this way, that is, it will have "no lender", no central-bank.
    Oh, I see. No central bank, "no lender". So, where are they gonna get all of these US dollars? I never thought about that before - all of the USD floating around the world. I assume most is digital but if he wants USDs to be Argentina's official currency, we're talking a poor population who deals in cash, I presume. To get USD you either have exchange your local currency or sell something to the US and get paid in USD, right? So sorry, my understanding of fiance is poor and I'm also a math tard. I get how inflation works with printing fiat, financing debt with bonds and the need for something of intrinsic value but that's about it.
    My two daughters and I were gang-raped by some of the Newcomers. It landed us in the hospital for 3 weeks as several bones were broken. I don't blame them, it was a sexual emergency and I wasn't about to go all white privilege and deny them the release they needed, especially after being stuck in a hotel for months. I see the Newcomers as family now. They are on our side and will help us stop Trump. It is a small price to pay. Anything but Trump.

    -GLP poster

  15. #642
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    Oh, I see. No central bank, "no lender". So, where are they gonna get all of these US dollars? I never thought about that before - all of the USD floating around the world. I assume most is digital but if he wants USDs to be Argentina's official currency, we're talking a poor population who deals in cash, I presume. To get USD you either have exchange your local currency or sell something to the US and get paid in USD, right?
    No doubt, there are already a lot of USDs in Argentina, so it's just a matter of those spreading out more widely. The Argentine peso is going to be retired by the Argentine government but I don't think there will be any official act by Milei to prohibit people from using it. So people will go on using it for some period of time, but probably not that long. The reason is that without anti-counterfeit enforcement, the criminals will be running off unlimited amounts of pesos, and so the value will go to zero very rapidly. So people have a window of time right now to move their pesos over to USD. I have forgotten the details of the transition plan, but the short answer is "it all works itself out". There are some costs to transitioning, but the costs of not transitioning are far greater. The Argentina economy will be on a much better footing after dollarization. That doesn't prevent them from going further and moving to PMs, Bitcoin, etc. El Salvador is a country that understand that money matters -- they moved to USD some time back and have now made Bitcoin their legal tender. That's a very bold, experimental move, but it shows that they understand the power of sound money. Sound money -> sound economy, it's really that simple. Inflation creates a situation for the common working man trying to build savings where saving for his or her retirement is like trying to store water in a sieve. Of course, Wall St. can solve that problem for you, as long you store your entire nest-egg in their casino so they can gamble with it. Which shows the true purpose... the globalists do not want you to have custody of your own liquid assets, they want that value stored with themselves, where they can do whatever they wish with it.

    So sorry, my understanding of fiance is poor and I'm also a math tard. I get how inflation works with printing fiat, financing debt with bonds and the need for something of intrinsic value but that's about it.
    That's enough. Don't worry about the math-side of it too much because, at the end of the day, stealing isn't really about math. The math is just the trick that fraudsters use to do the heist, but the motives and methods of the heist itself are transparently obvious to anyone. What idiots we have been to entrust our entire wealth to proven liars and thieves, which is what politicians are. Every one of us jokes that they are liars and thieves, and not to be trusted, and then we store our retirement assets in their sole discretionary control. We truly do deserve whatever happens to us, because we are knowingly entrusting ourselves to those who are not to be trusted:

    On her way to work one morning
    Down the path 'longside the lake
    A tender-hearted woman saw a poor half-frozen snake
    His pretty colored skin had been all frosted with the dew
    "Oh well," she cried, "I’ll take you in and I'll take care of you"

    She wrapped him up all cozy in a comforter of silk
    And laid him by thе fireside with some honеy and some milk
    She hurried home from work that night, and soon as she arrived
    She found that pretty snake she’d taken in had been revived

    She clutched him to her bosom, "You're so beautiful," she cried
    "But if I hadn't brought you in, by now you might have died"
    She stroked his pretty skin again and kissed and held him tight
    Instead of saying thanks, that snake gave her a vicious bite

    "I saved you," cried the woman
    "And you've bitten me, but why?
    And you know your bite is poisonous and now I'm gonna die"
    "Oh shut up, silly woman," said the reptile with a grin
    "You knew damn well I was a snake before you took me in"
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  16. #643
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    I never thought about that before - all of the USD floating around the world. I assume most is digital but if he wants USDs to be Argentina's official currency, we're talking a poor population who deals in cash, I presume.
    I'm curious too what he means by official currency. That could mean it's declared the only legal tender. It could mean when the government reports its GDP and pays the IMF their blood money, that's done in dollars, and nothing more than that--the public may trade with any damned thing they please. It could mean something in between.

    I'm not buying any of the speculation. I'm just enjoying watching this show unfold so far. He seems to be crazy like a fox. He has already pulled a couple of rabbits out of the snow.

  17. #644
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    No doubt, there are already a lot of USDs in Argentina, so it's just a matter of those spreading out more widely. The Argentine peso is going to be retired by the Argentine government but I don't think there will be any official act by Milei to prohibit people from using it. So people will go on using it for some period of time, but probably not that long. The reason is that without anti-counterfeit enforcement, the criminals will be running off unlimited amounts of pesos, and so the value will go to zero very rapidly. So people have a window of time right now to move their pesos over to USD. I have forgotten the details of the transition plan, but the short answer is "it all works itself out". There are some costs to transitioning, but the costs of not transitioning are far greater. The Argentina economy will be on a much better footing after dollarization. That doesn't prevent them from going further and moving to PMs, Bitcoin, etc. El Salvador is a country that understand that money matters -- they moved to USD some time back and have now made Bitcoin their legal tender. That's a very bold, experimental move, but it shows that they understand the power of sound money. Sound money -> sound economy, it's really that simple. Inflation creates a situation for the common working man trying to build savings where saving for his or her retirement is like trying to store water in a sieve. Of course, Wall St. can solve that problem for you, as long you store your entire nest-egg in their casino so they can gamble with it. Which shows the true purpose... the globalists do not want you to have custody of your own liquid assets, they want that value stored with themselves, where they can do whatever they wish with it.



    That's enough. Don't worry about the math-side of it too much because, at the end of the day, stealing isn't really about math. The math is just the trick that fraudsters use to do the heist, but the motives and methods of the heist itself are transparently obvious to anyone. What idiots we have been to entrust our entire wealth to proven liars and thieves, which is what politicians are. Every one of us jokes that they are liars and thieves, and not to be trusted, and then we store our retirement assets in their sole discretionary control. We truly do deserve whatever happens to us, because we are knowingly entrusting ourselves to those who are not to be trusted:
    Debt money and the world of international finance all seems like some kind of alchemy to me. I don't understand crypto, either. Why is Bitcoin, which is purchased with debt money and resides in cyberspace, sound money?
    My two daughters and I were gang-raped by some of the Newcomers. It landed us in the hospital for 3 weeks as several bones were broken. I don't blame them, it was a sexual emergency and I wasn't about to go all white privilege and deny them the release they needed, especially after being stuck in a hotel for months. I see the Newcomers as family now. They are on our side and will help us stop Trump. It is a small price to pay. Anything but Trump.

    -GLP poster

  18. #645
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    I'm curious too what he means by official currency. That could mean it's declared the only legal tender. It could mean when the government reports its GDP and pays the IMF their blood money, that's done in dollars, and nothing more than that--the public may trade with any damned thing they please. It could mean something in between.

    I'm not buying any of the speculation. I'm just enjoying watching this show unfold so far. He seems to be crazy like a fox. He has already pulled a couple of rabbits out of the snow.
    Well, we can trade with anything we please, as well, but use the USD for everyday transactions like paying bills, buying gas and groceries, etc. I guess it will be the same in Argentina. This is where the "poor" part is going to come in. Most of them are already poor with a hugely inflated currency so when they trade that in for USDs they're not going to get very many USDs and they're still going to be poor but, I guess Milei's thinking is that whatever meager money people have will then be more stable so they won't be becoming even poorer through the Argentinian inflation and they'll have ours, instead. So, then what? Slash spending and pay off their national debt? How long will that take? Next, bring in investment to create privat sector employment and generate wealth?
    My two daughters and I were gang-raped by some of the Newcomers. It landed us in the hospital for 3 weeks as several bones were broken. I don't blame them, it was a sexual emergency and I wasn't about to go all white privilege and deny them the release they needed, especially after being stuck in a hotel for months. I see the Newcomers as family now. They are on our side and will help us stop Trump. It is a small price to pay. Anything but Trump.

    -GLP poster

  19. #646
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    Debt money and the world of international finance all seems like some kind of alchemy to me.
    "Debt money" is a confusing term and I would generally stay away from sources that use that language, because they are usually propagandists in my experience.

    Money is money -- money is exactly what you think it is (cash and coin, bank accounts, etc.) Those who mystify it, do so because they have an agenda. There is nothing about money that is inherently more complicated than any other good. In fact, since money is the closest asset to being a "pure number", it is in many ways much simpler than other goods.

    In Mystery of Banking (IIRC), Rothbard gives a breakdown of money starting from the concept of warehousing. Warehousing is the industry that has to do with storing things like wheat, oil, and other commodities. When you store a good of a given grade with a warehouser, you receive a warehouse receipt for the quantity you deposited, including its specific grade. When you later want to redeem the warehouse receipt, you expect to be given the full amount of the stored good, at the same grade. You would not deposit Grade A wheat with a wheat warehouse, and then be satisfied to receive moldy wheat when you return to redeem your warehouse receipt, or to only be given 10% of the wheat you deposited. In the same way, Rothbard argues, the basis of banking is just "money warehousing" -- the gold depositor who deposits 100 gold coins with his bank, expects to return later with the deposit receipt for that account and receive fully 100 gold coins of the same weight and fineness as those he deposited. He will not accept 100 50% silver/gold coins, nor will he accept 90 gold coins instead of 100 -- the deposit receipt is for fully 100 gold coins of some weight and fineness and he expects exactly what he deposited in return.

    People in society generally assume or feel that this is how banking fundamentally works, even if it's "very sophisticated" and not easy for the normal person to understand all the details. But what central banking and fiat money break is this assumption -- in fact, the modern banking system does not at all warehouse your money in this way, nor return it to you in the same amount and quality at which you deposited it. This is the meaning of that claim you hear often that "the dollar has lost 90% of its value since 1971 when Nixon closed the gold-window." The point is that $100 deposited at your bank in 1971, even if it is returned numerically, is not returned in its real value. You do not receive one hundred 1971 dollars' worth of value when you redeem your original deposit, because inflation has eaten away 90+% of its actual purchasing power, and you were not compensated for this. Nor is this eating away of the value of your deposit the result of having foregone investment, as is often suggested. It is true that a mere deposit (instead of an investment) is not "generating wealth" because it's just sitting there, collecting dust, but this is a separate topic (I won't go into it here to avoid too long of a post), but just take my word for now that this is an intentional confusion that is often injected into discussion of modern banking to confuse people and deflect attention away from the real issue.

    And what is the real issue? That when the central bank "creates money", it is doing nothing different than any ordinary criminal counterfeiter does when they print counterfeit bills. They are literally just printing money out of thin air, no matter how much liturgical ritual they surround it with, no matter how grave and stupendous the charade, no matter how long-faced the actors playing their roles upon the stage -- it's all an elaborate pretense whose purpose is to make the obscene seem sacred, to make the criminal seem lawful.

    In truth, they are violating Torah --

    Deut. 25:13 - Do not have two differing weights in your bag-one heavy, one light.
    Proverbs 16:11 - Honest scales and balances are from the LORD; all the weights in the bag are of his making.
    Micah 6:11 - Shall I acquit a man with dishonest scales, with a bag of false weights?

    They are thieves, in fact, they are the greatest thieves ever, in history. They have stolen oceans' worth of wealth, and mostly just lit it on fire (in many cases quite literally).

    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    Why is Bitcoin, which is purchased with debt money and resides in cyberspace, sound money?
    The easiest way to understand Bitcoin is to look at it from the standpoint of what we call "the marketplace of money", or "a free market in money production". The US dollar is named after the Thaler or "Joachimsthaler" which was a silver coin struck by an Austrian noble family that happened to be, at the end of the 18th century, one of the most widely used coins for international trade. This was because of its high reputability, its good design, anti-counterfeit features, its optimal weight, and its relative political neutrality, not being issued by a national government. The point is that the founding Fathers chose the Thaler/Dollar as the national currency because it was a "market winner" -- it was in wide use everywhere around the world. They didn't worry about the details of why the Thaler was in widespread use, they relied on the wisdom of the market to sort that out. In the same way, those who use Bitcoin don't need to understand every detail of how/why it works, all they need to understand is that Bitcoin is a competitor in the world marketplace of currencies -- most of which are subsidized by their national government and operated as a monopoly -- and it is holding its own against them. Bitcoin's death has been predicted as many times as the political death of Trump... but it's still standing. Lots of smart people who do fully understand how it works have invested every penny they have into it. It's too old to be a pyramid scheme and you'll never get robo-called by "Bitcoin Corporation" because there isn't such a thing, Bitcoin is an open standard (kind of like the Internet itself) and no one agency controls the Bitcoin network, something that the biggest Bitcoin players have very carefully ensured (to secure their own Bitcoin assets).
    Last edited by ClaytonB; 02-20-2024 at 12:49 AM.
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  20. #647
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    Put that way, it makes perfect sense. Use whatever you want for currency. That said, it seems he's officially said he wants to adopt the USD, if it hasn't happened already. One central bank killed is a step in the right direction and theirs sounds like it needs killing.
    Generally official dollarization will mean that you are required to pay taxes in dollars.
    The need to pay taxes will cause dollars to dominate the economy even if trade in other currencies is allowed.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #648
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    Well, we can trade with anything we please...
    Can we? Try opening a large retail establishment that prices all their goods for U.S. consumers in rubles, and see what you get.

    The armed forces have flattened countries for selling oil to other countries for something besides FRNs. They don't have a sense of humor about it.



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  23. #649
    Argentina Sees Poverty Reach Record High


    https://www.thefinancialtrends.com/2...h-record-high/



    (Note to dumb people: Milei can't be responsible for this yet, it just shows what he is facing)
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #650
    If poverty level goes from 44% to 57% due to gov subsidies cut in one quarter under Milei, I’d say he’s responsible

    He deserves a hall pass for this temporarily imo

  25. #651
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Can we? Try opening a large retail establishment that prices all their goods for U.S. consumers in rubles, and see what you get.

    The armed forces have flattened countries for selling oil to other countries for something besides FRNs. They don't have a sense of humor about it.
    Oh, yeah, you're right. I was talking about among individuals.
    My two daughters and I were gang-raped by some of the Newcomers. It landed us in the hospital for 3 weeks as several bones were broken. I don't blame them, it was a sexual emergency and I wasn't about to go all white privilege and deny them the release they needed, especially after being stuck in a hotel for months. I see the Newcomers as family now. They are on our side and will help us stop Trump. It is a small price to pay. Anything but Trump.

    -GLP poster

  26. #652
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Argentina Sees Poverty Reach Record High


    https://www.thefinancialtrends.com/2...h-record-high/



    (Note to dumb people: Milei can't be responsible for this yet, it just shows what he is facing)
    I read that he said he would keep some welfare programs in order to help people get through this and he'll have to or people will turn against him. Hopefully by firing the 45,000 government workers it will be affordable.
    My two daughters and I were gang-raped by some of the Newcomers. It landed us in the hospital for 3 weeks as several bones were broken. I don't blame them, it was a sexual emergency and I wasn't about to go all white privilege and deny them the release they needed, especially after being stuck in a hotel for months. I see the Newcomers as family now. They are on our side and will help us stop Trump. It is a small price to pay. Anything but Trump.

    -GLP poster

  27. #653
    Globalist take on Milei - pretty much what you'd expect but surprisingly balanced. This bit I found curious:

    No area sums up the cognitive dissonance that Milei inspires better than climate change. Milei campaigned as a full-blown climate change denier. He said that “politicians who blame the human race for climate change are fake” and called the very idea of climate change a “socialist hoax.” And yet as president, his top climate diplomat confirmed that Argentina will remain in the Paris climate agreement. He even included a new cap-and-trade plan to limit carbon emissions in his omnibus reform bill. Observers could be forgiven for having whiplash—even for Milei, the turnaround on climate has been dramatic. This is hardly the only issue where Milei’s rhetoric and his actions are surprisingly divergent. So how should we judge Milei—by his outlandish campaign statements, or by his restrained actions once in office?

    https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/02/13...ntina-economy/
    My two daughters and I were gang-raped by some of the Newcomers. It landed us in the hospital for 3 weeks as several bones were broken. I don't blame them, it was a sexual emergency and I wasn't about to go all white privilege and deny them the release they needed, especially after being stuck in a hotel for months. I see the Newcomers as family now. They are on our side and will help us stop Trump. It is a small price to pay. Anything but Trump.

    -GLP poster

  28. #654
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    Globalist take on Milei - pretty much what you'd expect but surprisingly balanced. This bit I found curious:

    No area sums up the cognitive dissonance that Milei inspires better than climate change. Milei campaigned as a full-blown climate change denier. He said that “politicians who blame the human race for climate change are fake” and called the very idea of climate change a “socialist hoax.” And yet as president, his top climate diplomat confirmed that Argentina will remain in the Paris climate agreement. He even included a new cap-and-trade plan to limit carbon emissions in his omnibus reform bill. Observers could be forgiven for having whiplash—even for Milei, the turnaround on climate has been dramatic. This is hardly the only issue where Milei’s rhetoric and his actions are surprisingly divergent. So how should we judge Milei—by his outlandish campaign statements, or by his restrained actions once in office?

    https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/02/13...ntina-economy/
    Not good.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  29. #655
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    So how should we judge Milei—by his outlandish campaign statements, or by his restrained actions once in office?
    Lord, please give this country a president so "restrained" as Milei. LOL

  30. #656
    Even with sausage concessions, his omnibus reform bill didn't pass the legislature. The man is doing the best he can IMO.



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  32. #657
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    Globalist take on Milei - pretty much what you'd expect but surprisingly balanced. This bit I found curious:

    No area sums up the cognitive dissonance that Milei inspires better than climate change. Milei campaigned as a full-blown climate change denier. He said that “politicians who blame the human race for climate change are fake” and called the very idea of climate change a “socialist hoax.” And yet as president, his top climate diplomat confirmed that Argentina will remain in the Paris climate agreement. He even included a new cap-and-trade plan to limit carbon emissions in his omnibus reform bill. Observers could be forgiven for having whiplash—even for Milei, the turnaround on climate has been dramatic. This is hardly the only issue where Milei’s rhetoric and his actions are surprisingly divergent. So how should we judge Milei—by his outlandish campaign statements, or by his restrained actions once in office?

    https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/02/13...ntina-economy/
    I don't understand why conservatives/libertarians so easily fall for this obvious propaganda...

    This is an old headline being recycled.

    First, the "top climate diplomat" was from the previous administration. I assume Milei will fire them, but we'll see, maybe there's some political calculus that makes that difficult.

    Second, this "top climate diplomat" ran off from Argentina during Milei's inauguration and announced, apparently on their own cognizance, all this crap about the Paris Agreement. If I had to guess, this is a stunt being pulled by Milei's opposition to make him appear unable to rein in his own government, thus making him look weak. If he were to openly contradict this diplomat, yet is unable to force him out of office due to political maneuvers, then he appears powerless, and this can be exploited to topple him. But if he allows the diplomat's words to go unchallenged, you get these stupid brainwashed propaganda news articles as above.
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  33. #658
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    I don't understand why conservatives/libertarians so easily fall for this obvious propaganda...

    This is an old headline being recycled.

    First, the "top climate diplomat" was from the previous administration. I assume Milei will fire them, but we'll see, maybe there's some political calculus that makes that difficult.

    Second, this "top climate diplomat" ran off from Argentina during Milei's inauguration and announced, apparently on their own cognizance, all this crap about the Paris Agreement. If I had to guess, this is a stunt being pulled by Milei's opposition to make him appear unable to rein in his own government, thus making him look weak. If he were to openly contradict this diplomat, yet is unable to force him out of office due to political maneuvers, then he appears powerless, and this can be exploited to topple him. But if he allows the diplomat's words to go unchallenged, you get these stupid brainwashed propaganda news articles as above.
    Well, I hope you're right and I'm not inclined to go digging into it. Why would he include cap & trade in his omnibus bill, though, and not pull out of the Paris accord right off the bat?
    My two daughters and I were gang-raped by some of the Newcomers. It landed us in the hospital for 3 weeks as several bones were broken. I don't blame them, it was a sexual emergency and I wasn't about to go all white privilege and deny them the release they needed, especially after being stuck in a hotel for months. I see the Newcomers as family now. They are on our side and will help us stop Trump. It is a small price to pay. Anything but Trump.

    -GLP poster

  34. #659
    Quote Originally Posted by A Son of Liberty View Post
    Lord, please give this country a president so "restrained" as Milei. LOL
    I agree! If firing 45K government workers is restrained then I'd like to see what radical is.
    My two daughters and I were gang-raped by some of the Newcomers. It landed us in the hospital for 3 weeks as several bones were broken. I don't blame them, it was a sexual emergency and I wasn't about to go all white privilege and deny them the release they needed, especially after being stuck in a hotel for months. I see the Newcomers as family now. They are on our side and will help us stop Trump. It is a small price to pay. Anything but Trump.

    -GLP poster

  35. #660
    Quote Originally Posted by susano View Post
    Well, I hope you're right and I'm not inclined to go digging into it. Why would he include cap & trade in his omnibus bill, though, and not pull out of the Paris accord right off the bat?
    You might find this episode helpful to sift through the propaganda:

    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

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