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Thread: [Milei WINS!] Javier Milei, Austrian econ. prof. & ancap, runs for president of Argentina

  1. #301
    The choice to be vaxxed or not is a medical choice that every individual has the right to make for themselves. Herd-mentality libertarians like this are just collectivists in disguise. We don't have to all make exactly the same choices in order to be on the side of the Good, the True and the Beautiful.

    VIVA LA LIBERTAD!
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28



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  3. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    [...] just because Milei is signaling that he's going to play hardball on the Falklands [...]
    There is no evidence he is going to do any such thing.

    The article (or, rather, the title of the article) on which that notion is based is shoddy clickbait claptrap.

    Regarding which:

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Nonnegotiable means force will be used if diplomacy fails.
    Now you are just making things up to suit you.

    The editor and author [1] of the article you cited appear to have done the same thing.

    The author of the article begins with the statement, "Javier Milei has said that Argentina has non-negotiable' sovereignty over the Falkland Islands" [sic the apostrophe]. The title of the article ('Argentina has non-negotiable sovereignty over the Falklands', country's new right-wing president Javier Milei declares) presents the author's statement as if it was a direct quote from Milei - yet nowhere in the article is any evidence of or support for this provided.

    Just the opposite, in fact - as when the author himself writes, "Milei's position could be seen as relatively conciliatory", or when Milei himself is quoted as saying, "we have to make every effort to recover the islands through diplomatic channels". IOW: At best, the content of the article does not support the claim made in the title, and at worst, it actually contradicts it.

    And then there's this:

    But Diana Mondino also said that the will of the Falklanders themselves must be respected.

    "In such a process we can’t leave out those people who live in the Islands, we must include the interests of people living in the Island," she said.

    Who is Diana Mondino? Why are her thoughts relevant to the issue? The article is so incompetently written and edited that she is never even identified (nor is she ever referred to again, either before or after those two sentences). It turns out Mondino is a "Senior Economic Advisor" to Milei. I had to look that up myself because the so-called "journalist" and/or "editor" responsible for the article couldn't even be bothered to tell us. (This kind of thing is a hallmark of hasty, thoughtless, and arbitrary cut-and-paste "journalism".)

    After that Mondino bit, there's a bland blurb from the Argentina government's official website, followed by a bunch of fluff that has nothing at all to do with the Falklands issue (and which appears to exist only for the sake of lazily padding out the article).

    But even putting all that aside by ignoring that this was just another poorly written, slapdash assembly-line "article" with a provocative clickbait title (a title which failed to be warranted by or substantiated in the article's content), and granting - just for the sake of argument - that Milei did actually say, "Argentina has non-negotiable sovereignty over the Falklands" (or assuming, again arguendo, that this is not an inaccurate or uncharitable mis-translation of something else he said), the assertion that "non-negotiable means force will be used if diplomacy fails" simply does not follow. It can easily and merely mean that Argentine sovereignty over the Falklands is not something Milei would be willing to trade as a concession in any diplomatic rapprochement with Britain. Furthermore, that sense of "non-negotiable" (again, assuming a correct and accurate translation) is the far more reasonable and to-be-expected understanding of the term, given that Argentina is obviously in no position whatsoever to forcibly assert its claim of "sovereignty" with even the faintest hope of any effectiveness (let alone success).



    [1] Who may or may not be the same person. (And if, as I suspect, they are the same, then that is yet another hallmark of poor practice.)
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 11-23-2023 at 03:28 PM.

  4. #303
    Another Globalist Clown Confirmed.
    A peace Summit where Argentina wants to support Ukraine.

    This clown is going to care more for Ukraine than Argentina
    Milei offers Zelensky to hold Ukraine peace summit in Argentina

  5. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by WarriorLiberty View Post
    Another Globalist Clown Confirmed.
    A peace Summit where Argentina wants to support Ukraine.

    This clown is going to care more for Ukraine than Argentina
    Milei offers Zelensky to hold Ukraine peace summit in Argentina
    Dollars sent by Milei to Ukraine so far: $0
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28



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  7. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by WarriorLiberty View Post
    Another Globalist Clown Confirmed.
    You are not a serious person ...

    Quote Originally Posted by WarriorLiberty View Post
    A peace Summit where Argentina wants to support Ukraine.
    Oh my dear God! Not a peace summit!!


    What a horrible "interventionist"!

    What a "globalist clown"!

    I mean ... a peace summit!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by WarriorLiberty View Post
    This clown is going to care more for Ukraine than Argentina
    Milei offers Zelensky to hold Ukraine peace summit in Argentina
    Putin better watch out! If he doesn't toe Milei's line, Argentina might just invade Russia on behalf of Ukraine.

    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 11-23-2023 at 03:26 PM.

  8. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    Dollars sent by Milei to Ukraine so far: $0
    Too early to say, he hasn't even been sworn in yet. I hope you are right and he won't send weapons and money to Ukraine. But I just think it's too early to react. My money says, he will be another fake conservative like Meloni in Italy.

  9. #307
    Well, if he sends Argentine pesos to Ukraine, they would be worthless by the time they got there.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  10. #308
    Does our Federal Reserve just print more née dollars & give them to Argentina, when they go off peso?

    Fascinated to learn how this will really work..

  11. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Uh huh.

    Was there negotiation then? Was Britain broke then? Do you suppose any variable might have changed in the last forty years? When Trump makes belligerent statements, aren't you the first to rush in and say, that's just the way a master negotiator presses the issue?
    Things have certainly changed, Argentina is far broker than the UK.
    They have nothing to offer for the islands and you do not begin negotiations where you are going to make an offer by saying, no matter what you will sell this thing to me whether you want to or not, and whether you like what I can offer or not.
    That's the well known "I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse" where the Godfather has a small amount of cash in one hand and a gun in the other.

    The UK will never agree to give Argentina islands that were uninhabited and then settled by Englishmen hundreds of years before Argentina existed.
    And the people who live there will never agree to be taken over.

    Argentina thinks they can win the next war because they are closer to the islands than the UK and the UK is broker than last time.
    They are hoping that the implied threat will cause the UK to betray the inhabitants of the islands for the small offer in the one hand rather than risk the gun in the other.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    There is no evidence he is going to do any such thing.

    The article (or, rather, the title of the article) on which that notion is based is shoddy clickbait claptrap.

    Regarding which:



    Now you are just making things up to suit you.

    The editor and author [1] of the article you cited appear to have done the same thing.

    The author of the article begins with the statement, "Javier Milei has said that Argentina has non-negotiable' sovereignty over the Falkland Islands" [sic the apostrophe]. The title of the article ('Argentina has non-negotiable sovereignty over the Falklands', country's new right-wing president Javier Milei declares) presents the author's statement as if it was a direct quote from Milei - yet nowhere in the article is any evidence of or support for this provided.

    Just the opposite, in fact - as when the author himself writes, "Milei's position could be seen as relatively conciliatory", or when Milei himself is quoted as saying, "we have to make every effort to recover the islands through diplomatic channels". IOW: At best, the content of the article does not support the claim made in the title, and at worst, it actually contradicts it.

    And then there's this:

    But Diana Mondino also said that the will of the Falklanders themselves must be respected.

    "In such a process we can’t leave out those people who live in the Islands, we must include the interests of people living in the Island," she said.

    Who is Diana Mondino? Why are her thoughts relevant to the issue? The article is so incompetently written and edited that she is never even identified (nor is she ever referred to again, either before or after those two sentences). It turns out Mondino is a "Senior Economic Advisor" to Milei. I had to look that up myself because the so-called "journalist" and/or "editor" responsible for the article couldn't even be bothered to tell us. (This kind of thing is a hallmark of hasty, thoughtless, and arbitrary cut-and-paste "journalism".)

    After that Mondino bit, there's a bland blurb from the Argentina government's official website, followed by a bunch of fluff that has nothing at all to do with the Falklands issue (and which appears to exist only for the sake of lazily padding out the article).

    But even putting all that aside by ignoring that this was just another poorly written, slapdash assembly-line "article" with a provocative clickbait title (a title which failed to be warranted by or substantiated in the article's content), and granting - just for the sake of argument - that Milei did actually say, "Argentina has non-negotiable sovereignty over the Falklands" (or assuming, again arguendo, that this is not an inaccurate or uncharitable mis-translation of something else he said), the assertion that "non-negotiable means force will be used if diplomacy fails" simply does not follow. It can easily and merely mean that Argentine sovereignty over the Falklands is not something Milei would be willing to trade as a concession in any diplomatic rapprochement with Britain. Furthermore, that sense of "non-negotiable" (again, assuming a correct and accurate translation) is the far more reasonable and to-be-expected understanding of the term, given that Argentina is obviously in no position whatsoever to forcibly assert its claim of "sovereignty" with even the faintest hope of any effectiveness (let alone success).



    [1] Who may or may not be the same person. (And if, as I suspect, they are the same, then that is yet another hallmark of poor practice.)
    Milei told La Nacion, “What do I propose? Argentina’s sovereignty over the Malvinas Islands is non-negotiable. The Malvinas are Argentine.

    https://londonlovesbusiness.com/arge...on-negotiable/


    The first article failed to cite the source of teh quote because it is something everyone in their country knows he said during his campaign.

    And Argentina has a much better shot at taking the islands now than last time because the UK military is withered and degraded since Thatcher's time.

    All his claims that he wants to pursue a peaceful transfer are nonsense because there is no chance that the UK or the islanders will agree and Argentina has nothing to offer to change their minds.
    If a peaceful transfer takes place it will be because the UK accepts some pitiful offer in order to avoid a war that is implied by even bringing the subject up.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    Everyone assumes, you mean. Libertarians have had to learn from Trump that part of being a good statesman is being able to make your enemies feel fear, and to make your competitors sweat in their seats. Trump didn't invade any countries or start any new bombing campaigns, but he absolutely made Kim Jong Un feel the might of the US military. So, just because Milei is signaling that he's going to play hardball on the Falklands doesn't mean he's a neoCON... as I said to another poster, let me know when Milei starts invading the Middle East... then we'll have confirmation that he's a neoCON...
    So if he manages to intimidate the UK and the islanders into letting him annex territory that was never Argentina's when neither the UK not the islanders want to agree that is somehow OK? not to mention the obvious risk of war if his bluff fails?

    What territory did Trump extort from N. Korea?

    Of course he's a Neocon, that's why he is spouting their propaganda about Ukraine and Israel while stirring up the dead issue of who owns the Falklands with an implied threat of war.
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 11-24-2023 at 12:40 AM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by John-G View Post
    Too early to say, he hasn't even been sworn in yet. I hope you are right and he won't send weapons and money to Ukraine. But I just think it's too early to react. My money says, he will be another fake conservative like Meloni in Italy.
    Let me put it this way: I don't do personality cults, so the moment that Milei sends $1 to Ukraine or Israel, or sends troops to the ME, he is dead to me. I will happily meme-bomb such betrayal, as happily as I am currently meme-ing in support of him. That's how reality works... when people take a position that is good, I support their position because it is good, and when they betray that, I expose their lies. Trying to get clever doesn't work because only God can see the heart... Milei will very soon prove whether he's a liar or whether he truly supports liberty, and I am patient...
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28



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  16. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    So if he manages to intimidate the UK and the islanders into letting him annex territory that was never Argentina's when neither the UK not the islanders want to agree that is somehow OK? not to mention the obvious risk of war if his bluff fails?
    I have no idea why Milei is saber-rattling over the Falklands. I'm going to assume for now he has a good reason, probably to do with shaking up entrenched domestic interests that are aligned with the Brits and are using the Falklands as a staging-grounds into Argentina, similar to how Trump took on the Mexican government for its laxity in border-enforcement by forcing them to man the border and pay for improvements to it. Obviously, it's not an identical situation, but I see nothing yet in Milei's rhetoric or policies that contradicts his claimed support for libertarian principles, which are the only true principles of just government.

    What territory did Trump extort from N. Korea?
    NK is not the right comparison (I only mentioned it in respect to show-of-strength), the right comparison is Mexico. I'm not inclined to do a deep-dive into the history of the Falklands atm, but I'm willing to bet money that the Brits have no good historical claim for their presence/influence there, as with most of their criminal global imperialism.

    Of course he's a Neocon, that's why he is spouting their propaganda about Ukraine and Israel while stirring up the dead issue of who owns the Falklands with an implied threat of war.
    NeoCON is a big word. That means that he is aligned with Cheney/Bush/Etc. and wants perpetual war in the ME. Words are cheap and there are many geopolitical reasons to say things you don't really mean... you've defended Trump many times for taking positions of expediency, knowing full-well that his support was insincere. Take the bump-stock ban that the TDS-libertarians on this board constantly whine and moan about ... obviously, banning bump-stocks is a dog-bone thrown to the other side as a cheap concession to get other goods of value in exchange. Bump-stocks are the spinner-wheels of firearms... completely useless show-off toys built for a legally perverse reason (trying to go around NFA instead of directly fighting for the Constitutional right to keep and bear SOTA firearms). Does the bump-stock ban make Trump a neoCON? Of course not. I don't know what he got in exchange for it, but whatever he got was surely of more value than bump-stocks. So, it was a wise move. I see no reason to believe that Milei's rhetoric on the Falklands is any different in respect to being part of his strategy to shake up TPTB in Argentina and starting throwing the bums out.

    Let's assume for the sake of argument that Milei is a WEF sleeper agent, neoCON, etc. etc. Even if that were true, it's simply too early to tell for sure. He needs to take office and start making some initial executive actions. Then we will know whether he's "obviously" a neoCON or whether he's the real libertarian deal. He can't escape playing his hand indefinitely, so we will shortly know for sure and, in the meantime, all of this hand-wringing and speculation is just a waste of time. My bet is that a lot of folks in this thread are going to be eating a lot of their words in the near future...
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  17. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    I have no idea why Milei is saber-rattling over the Falklands. I'm going to assume for now he has a good reason, probably to do with shaking up entrenched domestic interests that are aligned with the Brits and are using the Falklands as a staging-grounds into Argentina, similar to how Trump took on the Mexican government for its laxity in border-enforcement by forcing them to man the border and pay for improvements to it. Obviously, it's not an identical situation, but I see nothing yet in Milei's rhetoric or policies that contradicts his claimed support for libertarian principles, which are the only true principles of just government.
    Trump didn't annex any territory from Mexico either.
    And if Argentina has issues equivalent to Mexico's facilitation of the invasion at our southern border then that is what they should be talking about.
    If they have issues that serious I might even accept seizure of the islands by force and the expulsion of the occupants if no other resolution of the issues could be obtained.



    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    NK is not the right comparison (I only mentioned it in respect to show-of-strength), the right comparison is Mexico. I'm not inclined to do a deep-dive into the history of the Falklands atm, but I'm willing to bet money that the Brits have no good historical claim for their presence/influence there, as with most of their criminal global imperialism.
    You can read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...lkland_Islands

    I'll summarize.
    The islands were uninhabited.
    The British discovered them first.
    The French and British were the first to attempt colonization.
    Control of the islands changed hands many times and they were depopulated and repopulated several times.
    The British were the last to recolonize the islands.
    The British have owned the islands uninterrupted for almost 200 years.
    The British won the last war for the islands.
    The population is almost entirely composed of the descendants of the British colonists and when the issue was put to vote of whether to remain in the UK the vote to remain was nearly unanimous.

    There is not the slightest chance that the UK or the islanders will ever agree to transfer ownership peacefully and everyone involved knows it.


    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    NeoCON is a big word. That means that he is aligned with Cheney/Bush/Etc. and wants perpetual war in the ME. Words are cheap and there are many geopolitical reasons to say things you don't really mean... you've defended Trump many times for taking positions of expediency, knowing full-well that his support was insincere. Take the bump-stock ban that the TDS-libertarians on this board constantly whine and moan about ... obviously, banning bump-stocks is a dog-bone thrown to the other side as a cheap concession to get other goods of value in exchange. Bump-stocks are the spinner-wheels of firearms... completely useless show-off toys built for a legally perverse reason (trying to go around NFA instead of directly fighting for the Constitutional right to keep and bear SOTA firearms). Does the bump-stock ban make Trump a neoCON? Of course not. I don't know what he got in exchange for it, but whatever he got was surely of more value than bump-stocks. So, it was a wise move. I see no reason to believe that Milei's rhetoric on the Falklands is any different in respect to being part of his strategy to shake up TPTB in Argentina and starting throwing the bums out.

    Let's assume for the sake of argument that Milei is a WEF sleeper agent, neoCON, etc. etc. Even if that were true, it's simply too early to tell for sure. He needs to take office and start making some initial executive actions. Then we will know whether he's "obviously" a neoCON or whether he's the real libertarian deal. He can't escape playing his hand indefinitely, so we will shortly know for sure and, in the meantime, all of this hand-wringing and speculation is just a waste of time. My bet is that a lot of folks in this thread are going to be eating a lot of their words in the near future...
    As I stated elsewhere, I'm willing to be open minded if his actions speak louder than his words.
    But for now all I have is his words, whereas I have seen many actions by Trump that show he is more on our side than against us.
    Milei has gone from being a question mark to being a vocal Neocon and he will have to change that status through actions. (or lack thereof such as not actually sending arms and money to Ukraine or Israel)
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #315
    Does our Federal Reserve just print more new dollars & give them to Argentina, when they go off Argentina peso?

    Fascinated to learn how this will really work..

  19. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by vita3 View Post
    Does our Federal Reserve just print more née dollars & give them to Argentina, when they go off peso?

    Fascinated to learn how this will really work..
    No. Argentina acquires dollars by exporting goods (sold in dollars) on the global market.

    From a couple of months ago:

    Argentina has essentially no dollars. Which, as critics see it, is a major impediment to presidential front-runner Javier Milei’s plan to dollarize the crisis-ravaged economy. Even Milei’s own advisers are starting to get fidgety about how barren the vaults are.

    But ask economist Francisco Zalles about this problem and he scoffs. Just go ahead and make the dollar the country’s official tender, he says, and do it fast. The faster the move, the faster inflation steadies. Then interest rates can come down, and dollars can start flowing in, paving the way for growth.

    Zalles is no ordinary economist. He’s one of the few in the world who’s got experience carrying out such a process, having done so in his native Ecuador two decades ago. Conditions then — soaring inflation, plunging currency, stagnant growth — were broadly similar to those in Argentina today. And while Ecuador’s economic record has been uneven since, one thing is certain: The runaway inflation that was making people poorer month after month has disappeared.

    “For Milei’s plan to work, he needs nothing,” Zalles, who’d go on to do a stint at Greylock Capital Management, said in an interview. “He just needs to dollarize.”

    To many skeptics, Zalles’s vision is dangerously optimistic, even reckless. With no dollars to defend the exchange rate — Argentina has an estimated negative $10 billion in net international reserves — ditching the peso risks sparking a collapse in the currency that could lead to hyperinflation, a possible run on the banks and social unrest as savings vanish.

    “Dollarizing without dollars is like saying you want the entire population to wear Nike sneakers, even though you don’t make them and you don’t have the resources to buy them,” said Alejandro Werner, a former IMF director for the Western Hemisphere. “It’s impossible.”

    Zalles — and Milei — recognize dollarizing is a drastic move, but argue it’s the cure for what is, after all, a dire situation.

    Inflation data Wednesday showed prices rising 12.4% on a monthly basis in August, the fastest pace since Argentina exited hyperinflation three decades ago. The economy is on the brink of its sixth recession in a decade; 40% of the population lives below the poverty line. The peso has tumbled almost 30% on the parallel market in the past month.

    Since his surprise win in the August primaries, which prompted the government to devalue the peso by 18%, Milei’s radical plans have monopolized Wall Street’s attention. But key details, including exactly how those measures are going to play out, are still lacking. Some of his advisers have begun walking back some aspects of the proposals amid a barrage of criticism, saying he would not dollarize right away if there are no greenbacks in the central bank — which Milei doesn’t actually intend to shut either, they say.

    Zalles shrugs off major concerns. There are gross reserves to tap, he says, and the growing use of dollars will help smooth the process. While Argentines haven’t yet resorted to paying for daily transactions in US dollars, large purchases — anything from apartments to cars, furniture, electronics and home appliances — are increasingly done in greenbacks. People are estimated to hold as much as $200 billion in cash outside the banking system within the country and hoard an additional $250 billion in overseas accounts.

    Once you dollarize, that money will flow into the system, Zalles argues, and assuage fears over a potential bank run, similar to what happened in Ecuador in early 2000 when Zalles and two other economists oversaw the switch from sucres to greenbacks.
    ...
    More:

    https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/milei-sh...ador-1.1970796

    The details of the implementation will be important. If they start by just giving US dollars legal tender status while maintaining the peso, the country will have time to adapt payment systems while building dollar reserves gradually.

  20. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by Bern View Post
    No. Argentina acquires dollars by exporting goods (sold in dollars) on the global market.

    The details of the implementation will be important. If they start by just giving US dollars legal tender status while maintaining the peso, the country will have time to adapt payment systems while building dollar reserves gradually.
    Maintaining the peso seems foolhardy from my perspective. Confidence in it is lost, so there's no longer a way to destroy enough of them to match demand. Any supply is too much. There's zero demand for the Argentine peso.

    Nothing gets legal tender status, if his plan is as close to the Ron Paul plan as it sounds. Nothing. Which means nothing is forbidden as a means of barter. Not this currency. Not that e-wallet. Not those old silver coins. Nothing.

    So, if there's not enough FRNs floating around to ease their commerce, they're now free to use whatever else they find convenient to trade with. Hopefully they'll find something or a set of somethings that fills that gap handily.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 11-24-2023 at 09:23 AM.

  21. #318
    We'll see what he's able to actually do. Blowing up the central bank was good campaign rhetoric, but now he has to deal with the legislature to actually accomplish anything.

  22. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Bern View Post
    We'll see what he's able to actually do.
    MAGA? Make Argentina great again? Unlike Trump, Milei has promised to give Argentines the chance to make that happen. He's not trying to impose greatness from the top down.

    Yes, like Coolidge, he's going to find restraining the legislature to be a full time job. He had better pack a lunch. Legislatures don't know how to not smother their own people. They require a very firm hand.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 11-24-2023 at 09:33 AM.

  23. #320
    Wow and you know the funny thing? Argentina had one of the strictest lockdowns in the world and yet I cannot find any link of him speaking up against the vaccine. I am not surprised he did promo for the vaccine. Very libertarian of him.



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  25. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by John-G View Post
    Wow and you know the funny thing? Argentina had one of the strictest lockdowns in the world and yet I cannot find any link of him speaking up against the vaccine. I am not surprised he did promo for the vaccine. Very libertarian of him.
    Wake me up when he gives hundreds of billions to Pfizer like Trump did.

    I keep having trouble finding clips of Trump speaking ill of the jab too.

    If Milei chooses to avoid calling the Wrath of the Multinationals down on Argentina when possible, then maybe his people will suffer no more during this recovery than necessary.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 11-24-2023 at 09:40 AM.

  26. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Wake me up when he gives hundreds of billions to Pfizer like Trump did.

    I keep having trouble finding clips of Trump speaking ill of the jab too.

    If Milei chooses to avoid calling the Wrath of the Multinationals down on Argentina, then maybe his people will suffer less than is already unavoidable.
    Trump never claimed to be a libertarian, he is conservative lite who was supposed to stem the flow of illegal immigration. See, my problem is why go so extreme on the economic stuff while on the other hand being shy with the covid stuff. Is he afraid of them or is he strong, bold and brash about it all.

    It's the inconsistency that confuses me. Again, he could easily be simply pro Israel without being extreme about it. Just say that Israel has the right to exists and we should condemn terror attacks, things most rational people would accept, but all this visiting Israel as his first foreign visit is just going too far. So, does he care about the wrath of the multinationals or does he not care about it?

  27. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by John-G View Post
    So, does he care about the wrath of the multinationals or does he not care about it?
    *Why not both? gif*

    Does he support the multinationals' causes? COVID is over and he has nothing for Israel or Ukraine. What he does have are people in a spot so dire that the sheep totally stopped believing the sweet promises of their politicians. They're suffering.

    Let's do a thought experiment. Suppose he cared about Argentines first and foremost. Suppose there was a good chance that not rocking the multinational boat would spare them additional hardship. What if these were all subjects that (with the plandemic over, with no money for imperialism) are purely rhetorical at this point anyway ? What sort of noises might he bleat in front of foreign media in that case? What battles might he choose not to fight at this moment?
    Last edited by acptulsa; 11-24-2023 at 10:01 AM.

  28. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    but I see nothing yet in Milei's rhetoric or policies that contradicts his claimed support for libertarian principles,
    I do. In his rhetoric:

    "Argentina’s sovereignty over the Malvinas Islands is non-negotiable."

    That's not a libertarian position. That's an authoritarian position. Going through "diplomatic channels" to achieve this authoritarian position, does not make it any less authoritarian.

    There's still plenty of opportunities for Milei to prove otherwise, but between this, and his vocal support for Ukraine against the "aggressors", his understanding of the right to self determination does not look good.

    And without a good understanding of the right to self determination, can he truly be libertarian?
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  29. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump didn't annex any territory from Mexico either.
    And if Argentina has issues equivalent to Mexico's facilitation of the invasion at our southern border then that is what they should be talking about.
    If they have issues that serious I might even accept seizure of the islands by force and the expulsion of the occupants if no other resolution of the issues could be obtained.




    You can read about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...lkland_Islands

    I'll summarize.
    The islands were uninhabited.
    The British discovered them first.
    The French and British were the first to attempt colonization.
    Control of the islands changed hands many times and they were depopulated and repopulated several times.
    The British were the last to recolonize the islands.
    The British have owned the islands uninterrupted for almost 200 years.
    The British won the last war for the islands.
    The population is almost entirely composed of the descendants of the British colonists and when the issue was put to vote of whether to remain in the UK the vote to remain was nearly unanimous.

    There is not the slightest chance that the UK or the islanders will ever agree to transfer ownership peacefully and everyone involved knows it.
    *shrug -- I don't trust Wikipedia and I don't really care about external opinions on who will do what or who is justified in what, because it's a proven fact that the Brits are a bunch of imperialist crooks.

    As I stated elsewhere, I'm willing to be open minded if his actions speak louder than his words.
    But for now all I have is his words, whereas I have seen many actions by Trump that show he is more on our side than against us.
    Milei has gone from being a question mark to being a vocal Neocon and he will have to change that status through actions. (or lack thereof such as not actually sending arms and money to Ukraine or Israel)
    Exactly... actions speak louder than words. We'll just have to wait and see what Milei actually does. Obviously, the DS has its puppets everywhere and, if they could, they would love to create a puppet that would lead those who support liberty astray. But it is my view at this point that there's no way that Milei fits that description... the puppets they have created in the past always give a skewed/doctored version of the truth, but Milei is spitting the truth straight and clear. He roundly and quotably denounces socialism in all its forms, and correctly identifies all the disguised forms of socialism as socialism. If he is a puppet, he's doing more real damage to the DS Agenda with this kind of speech than he could possibly be secretly doing for them. Are they going to come in later and flip him like a Judas and force him to betray everything he said earlier? It's possible but we'll just have to wait and see if that actually happens. Until then, it's all just baseless speculation.
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  30. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Bern View Post
    No. Argentina acquires dollars by exporting goods (sold in dollars) on the global market.

    From a couple of months ago:



    More:

    https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/milei-sh...ador-1.1970796

    The details of the implementation will be important. If they start by just giving US dollars legal tender status while maintaining the peso, the country will have time to adapt payment systems while building dollar reserves gradually.
    Thanks Bern!

    Going to be fascinating to see details & implementation

  31. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    I do. In his rhetoric:

    "Argentina’s sovereignty over the Malvinas Islands is non-negotiable."

    That's not a libertarian position. That's an authoritarian position. Going through "diplomatic channels" to achieve this authoritarian position, does not make it any less authoritarian.

    There's still plenty of opportunities for Milei to prove otherwise, but between this, and his vocal support for Ukraine against the "aggressors", his understanding of the right to self determination does not look good.

    And without a good understanding of the right to self determination, can he truly be libertarian?
    I'm not a one-issue thinker... Trump is definitely not a libertarian, neither in his values nor in his policies, but I am mostly pro-Trump because, even though he bungles it somewhat, his support for traditional American values still ends up "sloshing over" and increasing liberty. Milei, AFAICT, definitely is a libertarian and, even if he bungles one or two issues, if he follows through on even 10% of what he has promised to do in his campaigning, he will do much more to increase liberty in Argentina than Trump managed to accomplish in the US.

    I understand the reasons for suspicion... the DS are a bunch of tricky bastards. For now, Milei has only used rhetoric but it's his policy actions that will show his true colors. When we get there, his actions will prove his true loyalty. I'm patient...
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  32. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by vita3 View Post
    Does our Federal Reserve just print more new dollars & give them to Argentina, when they go off Argentina peso?

    Fascinated to learn how this will really work..
    Hans Hoppe explains how this works in detail in his article Government, Money, and International Politics. Read section 3 entitled "Monetary Imperialism". If you need backgrounder, read sections 1,2.
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28



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  34. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Maintaining the peso seems foolhardy from my perspective. Confidence in it is lost, so there's no longer a way to destroy enough of them to match demand. Any supply is too much. There's zero demand for the Argentine peso.

    Nothing gets legal tender status, if his plan is as close to the Ron Paul plan as it sounds. Nothing. Which means nothing is forbidden as a means of barter. Not this currency. Not that e-wallet. Not those old silver coins. Nothing.

    So, if there's not enough FRNs floating around to ease their commerce, they're now free to use whatever else they find convenient to trade with. Hopefully they'll find something or a set of somethings that fills that gap handily.
    Exactly. Whatever they were using yesterday worked just fine. So, if nothing else, they can use that today. But if they have sounder money on hand which is better for trade, and the seller insists on receiving payment in that sounder money, then they'll use that. If such sound money is simply too scarce, then sellers won't be able to be so picky.

    The things that people find to worry about when it comes to basic economic activity never cease to amaze me. "You can use any money you want now" cannot hurt anyone in the private sector except perhaps some crooked money-exchangers who were profiting off the illegitimate monetary monopoly of the local fiat toilet-paper-money. Who cares if they're hurt, they're just a bunch of crooks. And everyone else will either not be hurt, or will benefit, so it's obviously Pareto...
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  35. #330
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