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Thread: [Milei WINS!] Javier Milei, Austrian econ. prof. & ancap, runs for president of Argentina

  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    I'd be fine with that, too.



    Workers' control is participation in the management of factories and other commercial enterprises by the people who work there. It has been variously advocated by anarchists, socialists, communists, social democrats, distributists and Christian democrats, and has been combined with various socialist and mixed economy systems.
    Workers controlling the means of production. Hmm, which group advocate such ideas? You know, it wouldn't kill u to admit maybe just maybe he is misguided in this one idea
    Last edited by John-G; 11-26-2023 at 05:55 PM.



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  3. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Would there be a corresponding tax refund for taxpayers?

    While that may make sense for a member of Congress (or government) who sees it as a source of (one-time) revenue, it essentially rewards government for privatizing in the first place. It’s like telling the mafia to go ahead and sell all of it’s stolen goods, and keep the money.
    Yes, it should definitely come with a tax cut for the citizens. Considering how he plans to slash govt spending on top of privatization, the money saved from it should result in a surplus that would allow the govt to easily cut taxes. And I always prefer tax cuts to rebates.

  4. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by John-G View Post
    If AOC would have stated that he wanted to give say a state-run hospital to the staff, everybody here would condemn her for it. But somehow because this comes from Milei, there are people who are coming to defend him.
    Personally, I wouldn't really care what AOC wants in that case. Parceling the airline out to its employees as shareholders is a reasonable solution to the problem because they have been the caretakers of the airline. I don't think this can be done in an "egalitarian" way, you would need to use a metric like years worked, rank, and other factors to hand out shares pro rata. And, you would need to establish a board, and choose a chair, CEO, etc. just as with any other corporation, and there's no reason these individuals would necessarily need to come from the current ranks of the airline, in fact, you probably want to decapitate the current leadership, otherwise, they will just bring all the old bureaucratic rot into the new "privatized" airline. That's just my opinion, and there may be superior models out there on how to privatize it. But making the employees pro rata stockholders is not arbitrary/baseless, nor is it "redistribution" except in some absurdly pedantic definition where there would be no non-redistributive solution anyway.
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  5. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by John-G View Post
    Workers controlling the means of production. Hmm, which group advocate such ideas? You know, it wouldn't kill u to admit maybe just maybe he is misguided in this one idea
    But it's not "workers controlling the means of production"... it's privatization. Once the shares have been disbursed (one time event), that's it, you're done. They can be sold down the road to whoever wants to buy them.

    The idea of sending "every Argentine" a 5 pesos kickback on the sale of the airline doesn't make any sense, because you're chopping the turkey into dust and giving everyone one speck of dust. That's silly. Someone has to own it after it's privatized. That will either be a highest bidder, or you can make it employee-owned. There are plenty of employee-owned corporations in the US, and this has nothing to do with Marxism, it's just one way of organizing ownership/control of a private organization. In this case, a good argument can be made that the people who should be given ownership are those who are currently working there because caretaking is the closest thing to ownership in the situation of a publicly-owned company.
    Last edited by ClaytonB; 11-26-2023 at 08:09 PM.
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  6. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by John-G View Post
    If AOC would have stated that he wanted to give say a state-run hospital to the staff, everybody here would condemn her for it.
    I wouldn't.

    (Of course, there's no reason to think AOC would actually do such a thing in the first place, which is why your lame attempt to equate Milei with her is so asinine.)

    Quote Originally Posted by John-G View Post
    But somehow because this comes from Milei, there are people who are coming to defend him.
    That's right.

    Cope harder.

    Quote Originally Posted by John-G View Post
    Workers' control is participation in the management of factories and other commercial enterprises by the people who work there. It has been variously advocated by anarchists, socialists, communists, social democrats, distributists and Christian democrats, and has been combined with various socialist and mixed economy systems.
    Workers controlling the means of production. Hmm, which group advocate such ideas? You know, it wouldn't kill u to admit maybe just maybe he is misguided in this one idea


    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    State ownership of capital property is one of the defining characteristics of socialism.

    It is ridiculous that someone who is divesting the state of state-owned assets is being accused of being some kind of "socialist".

  7. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    While that may make sense for a member of Congress (or government) who sees it as a source of (one-time) revenue, it essentially rewards government for privatizing in the first place. It’s like telling the mafia to go ahead and sell all of it’s stolen goods, and keep the money.
    Exactly. Exactly right. And when faced with the injustice of the whole nationalized airline debacle and the drain it was on the public's resources, a revolutionary may have attitudes at home which say, we bought it, let us keep it and run it in service to the economy we're struggling to rebuild. He may be or facing a difficult situation if the high bidder turns out to be a dealer in used airplanes, and this link to the wider world disappears.

    I don't have enough information to judge him for this. Not near enough. I don't know what his realistic options are under these unique circumstances. I do know privatization by any method isn't socialism, whether the workers control the means of production or not. Volkswagen was given to its workers and that's when it ceased to be Nazi.

    And I wouldn't be averse to AOC disbursing things, either, if by some miracle she didn't give it to a donor or relative or such.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 11-26-2023 at 06:51 PM.

  8. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    You: "Non-negotiable means force will be used if diplomacy fails."

    Me: ""[... T]he assertion that 'non-negotiable means force will be used if diplomacy fails' simply does not follow."

    MIlei (in the second article you linked to ; see above): “It is clear that the war option is not a solution."

    QED
    Just like all Presidential campaigns, all wars are denied until they are launched.
    But there are always hints and saber rattling.


    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    [post=7200931]
    LOL

    By the same logic (read: "excuse for half-assed, piss-poor reportage"), "everyone in their country knows" he won the election - yet for some reason, the author &/or editor apparently felt it necessary to explicitly state that he had done so (while omitting any source for or citation of the statement the article was supposed to be about).
    And that's why I provided the link to an article with a source.
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    You will let me know when the "withered and degraded" Brits tuck tail & flee from the mighty Argentine navy, won't you?

    BTW - just out of curiosity, which do you suppose will happen first: Argentina's invasion of the Falklands, or their invasion of Russia?
    I won't have to let you know, the news will do that.
    Nor is it a sure thing that Argentina would win, they just have a much better chance now.

    Russia will never happen, the Falklands may very well and the saber is being rattled even if it never happens either.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #368
    The jury is not in yet, but another piece of evidence to keep track of has dropped:



    In the blink of an eye, Argentine President-elect Javier Milei pivoted away from advisers advocating for his most dramatic campaign promises, choosing Wall Street veterans closer to former leader Mauricio Macri.

    Milei’s boldest campaign proposals — dollarization and closing the central bank — appear at least on hold for now amid a staffing shake up. Milei distanced himself from his dollarization guru, Emilio Ocampo, and on Friday another hawkish adviser from early in the campaign, Carlos Rodriguez, announced on X he was departing. Milei had repeatedly said he’d name Ocampo to lead Argentina’s central bank, though he reiterated Friday that closing the institution was “non-negotiable.”

    In their place, Milei’s economic team is being led by Luis Caputo and Demian Reidel, two former Wall Street veterans who held key posts during Macri’s presidency from 2015 to 2019.

    Local media also reported Milei would appoint his former rival during the election, Patricia Bullrich, as security minister, a post she held in Macri’s government too.

    Milei also softened his stance on China and Brazil after threatening to cut diplomatic ties on the campaign trail. He even thanked Xi Jinping for a congratulatory letter, invited Brazil’s Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva to his inauguration and took a call from Pope Francis, who he’d lambasted in the past. Even though Milei called the Chinese government “an assassin,” his foreign policy adviser, Diana Mondino, said the media over-blew the comments.

    More at: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/wall-...145315547.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  11. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Just like all Presidential campaigns, all wars are denied until they are launched.
    But there are always hints and saber rattling.



    And that's why I provided the link to an article with a source.

    I won't have to let you know, the news will do that.
    Nor is it a sure thing that Argentina would win, they just have a much better chance now.

    Russia will never happen, the Falklands may very well and the saber is being rattled even if it never happens either.
    A sabre is being rattled.

    Do you need a safe space, snowflake?

    Argentina isn't starting any shooting wars any time soon. News flash: They're broke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The jury is not in yet, but another piece of evidence to keep track of has dropped:
    Another piece of evidence that all the skeptics and kneejerk naysayers were wrong to call Milei a stooge of the Fed.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 11-27-2023 at 06:28 AM.

  12. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    Personally, I wouldn't really care what AOC wants in that case. Parceling the airline out to its employees as shareholders is a reasonable solution to the problem because they have been the caretakers of the airline. I don't think this can be done in an "egalitarian" way, you would need to use a metric like years worked, rank, and other factors to hand out shares pro rata. And, you would need to establish a board, and choose a chair, CEO, etc. just as with any other corporation, and there's no reason these individuals would necessarily need to come from the current ranks of the airline, in fact, you probably want to decapitate the current leadership, otherwise, they will just bring all the old bureaucratic rot into the new "privatized" airline. That's just my opinion, and there may be superior models out there on how to privatize it. But making the employees pro rata stockholders is not arbitrary/baseless, nor is it "redistribution" except in some absurdly pedantic definition where there would be no non-redistributive solution anyway.
    I disagree with u on this, i believe gifting taxpayer property to a small group of taxpayers is actually wrong. Yes, the state is bad and evil but state-owned properties should be returned to the people. My issue is that the man probably doesn't know how its supposed to be returned but because he is such an overconfident loudmouth, he says the first thing that comes into his head.

    Privatizing airlines has been done successfully by dozens of countries, it's usually popular because most airlines have very low return on capital or lose money. I am actually hoping, he will do a 180 once the thinking people in his cabinet talks to him. Heck, it was done to the same airline in the 2000s when Iberia bought majority shares of it. He can do it this time but now sell 100% of their stake in the airline.

    I am looking forward to his trip to the US and Israel. The man needs to visit his superior before taking his oath. Anarcho capitalist my arse.

  13. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by John-G View Post
    I disagree with u on this, i believe gifting taxpayer property to a small group of taxpayers is actually wrong. Yes, the state is bad and evil but state-owned properties should be returned to the people. My issue is that the man probably doesn't know how its supposed to be returned but because he is such an overconfident loudmouth, he says the first thing that comes into his head.
    That's your opinion. According to the web, there are about 50 million Argentines. Let's suppose that Argentine Airlines is worth $1B (generous). That's $20 per citizen. A $20 kickback to every citizen is silly and this is exactly the kind of "fair proposal" that an opponent of privatization in Argentina would espouse, as a reductio argument against privatization.

    Once again, while the Argentine citizens are the victims here, that's not Milei's fault. They cannot be made whole in accordance to how much they have been harmed -- not Milei's fault. Yes, disbursing the shares to the employees is an act of redistribution, but it's a sort of "least of all evils". There may be superior proposals out there that I just haven't encountered, but yours certainly is not one of them.

    I am looking forward to his trip to the US and Israel. The man needs to visit his superior before taking his oath. Anarcho capitalist my arse.
    Time will indeed tell. If he's faking, it will show up soon enough. And as I said above, I will happily meme-bomb his betrayal, just as happily as I now meme in support of him...
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  14. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    That's your opinion. According to the web, there are about 50 million Argentines. Let's suppose that Argentine Airlines is worth $1B (generous). That's $20 per citizen. A $20 kickback to every citizen is silly and this is exactly the kind of "fair proposal" that an opponent of privatization in Argentina would espouse, as a reductio argument against privatization.

    Once again, while the Argentine citizens are the victims here, that's not Milei's fault. They cannot be made whole in accordance to how much they have been harmed -- not Milei's fault. Yes, disbursing the shares to the employees is an act of redistribution, but it's a sort of "least of all evils". There may be superior proposals out there that I just haven't encountered, but yours certainly is not one of them.



    Time will indeed tell. If he's faking, it will show up soon enough. And as I said above, I will happily meme-bomb his betrayal, just as happily as I now meme in support of him...
    Let's assume 25 million Argentinians are taxpayers, that would mean giving every taxpayer a $40 tax cut. In addition, this will take away a most likely money losing institution away from the necks of ordinary Argentinians. No matter, how insignificant you think it is, this is a win for ordinary people. Gifting it to a few union workers is NOT the capitalist way of doing it. It is in fact what a socialist would do.

    My main reason for these posts is just to pump the breaks on the praise this man is getting. Like he is the 2nd coming of Ron Paul. He is doesn't mind telling off TPTB on how he will destroy their economic schemes and destroy their central banks but when it comes down to it, he is very pragmatic of maintaining a strong relationship with The Fed and Israel.

    I think when the real one will show up, he wouldn't be as bombastic as this one. He would probably take the same positions as Rand, be a little pragmatic while hinting he might go liberty mode when he gets into office. But again, lets hope I am wrong on this.

  15. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by John-G View Post
    Let's assume 25 million Argentinians are taxpayers, that would mean giving every taxpayer a $40 tax cut. In addition, this will take away a most likely money losing institution away from the necks of ordinary Argentinians. No matter, how insignificant you think it is, this is a win for ordinary people.
    But you're missing the larger point -- it's still an act of redistribution, it's just a really $#@!ty way of doing the redistribution because the proceeds from the sale are diluted so far as to be effectively useless. Those just entering the workforce are being reimbursed far too much, and those who are just about to retire and have paid into the system for decades and decades are being shorted. In short, it's a slap in the face to those who have been most extorted. Some of them may feel equally slapped in the face by a disbursement of shares to the current employees but, as I said, nothing can be done about this (there's no actual way to make people whole in a "fair" way) and it's simply not Milei's doing, nor his fault.

    Gifting it to a few union workers is NOT the capitalist way of doing it. It is in fact what a socialist would do.
    Who cares about the "capitalist" way? What matters is whether it's a sensible public-policy action, or not. Milei is not the chief economist of Argentina, he's the President of Argentina. His job is to act in the interests of the Argentine people as best he can. Privatizing the public airline is one of the most obvious way he can do that. The details of how the airline is privatized is something he will have to work out with his own team, and negotiate with the various parties who are going to lobby for their own agenda in all of this. Even in Argentina, being President does not give him unilateral power to simply enact whatever whim strikes his fancy. The ultimate outcome will be the result of "game theory", as the zoomers call it.

    The closest thing to ownership of a socialized asset is whoever is taking care of it right now. Thus, disbursing ownership shares to the employees makes sense. If there is a strong risk that the union could end up wresting controlling stakes in the company, then perhaps you would need to take safeguards against that bad outcome. I'm not sure how to handle that detail, but I'm confident there is a solution. Chopping the roast pig into 50 million bits of dust and mailing one speck of dust out to each Argentine is a silly and insulting proposal whose only real function is to act as a reductio ad absurdum argument against privatization.

    My main reason for these posts is just to pump the breaks on the praise this man is getting.
    Yes, it's amazing how you fair-weather posters suddenly materialize out of the aether whenever there is a geopolitical event with potentially material consequences to US imperial politics. Truly amazing...

    Like he is the 2nd coming of Ron Paul.
    Like Ron Paul, he's spitting the unadulterated, unfiltered, uncensored TRUTH. Just like the difference between fool's gold and gold... if you know, you know. You know it when you see it, there's just no way to "fake it" and wag the proverbial dog. The controlled-opp never but never speaks unfiltered truth. They'll speak half the truth. They love truthy slogans and witticisms. But they never speak the truth at length because they cannot... this would be Satan casting out Satan.

    He is doesn't mind telling off TPTB on how he will destroy their economic schemes and destroy their central banks but when it comes down to it, he is very pragmatic of maintaining a strong relationship with The Fed and Israel.
    So what? As President, good diplomacy is part of his job. Waving a chainsaw around is not suitable for geopolitical diplomacy... it's a great way to build publicity while you're in the early stages of your candidacy. "Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds"... we have no use for this kind of brain-dead "one-issue consistency" where someone is "bad" or "good" solely on the basis of whether they maintain diplomatic connections with Benjamin Netanyahu. The Left was doing exactly this same stunt to Trump when he opened diplomatic communication with North Korea. Somehow, Trump was suddenly a closet-communist or admirer of Kim Jong Un. How ridiculous!
    Last edited by ClaytonB; 11-27-2023 at 11:56 AM.
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  16. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by John-G View Post
    In addition, this will take away a most likely money losing institution away from the necks of ordinary Argentinians.
    No, it won't, because that particular most likely money losing institution is already taken away from the necks of ordinary Argentines.

    Make up your mind. Is it a $20-40 a head gold mine? Or is it a millstone? Because if it's a millstone, the only Argentines who are in danger of being dragged under with it are the laid off bureaucrats and bureaucratic labor who know it best and think they can make it pay. Are they being rewarded for being ex bureaucrats, or just taking a big risk? Make up your mind.

    Proprietorship in the 21st Century. Running a company from the shop floor, instead of phoning it in from a thousand miles away. Service providers with a stake in their own personal professional life. Sacrilegious! I like it.

    Why shouldn't he try to keep the one locally owned airline operating? You don't think it has the potential to speed the country's economic recovery enough to mean more than twenty bucks' worth of prosperity? Think all his constituents are Luddites? Does he have any other way to insure that the Schwabbies don't cut the whole country off out of spite?

    At times like these I pause and ask myself, what does he know that I don't?
    Last edited by acptulsa; 11-27-2023 at 12:47 PM.

  17. #375
    Argentina’s President-elect Javier Milei on Monday visited the burial site of the the seventh Lubavitcher Rebbe, Menachem Mendel Schneerson, as the first stop of his visit to the United States, ahead of his meetings with U.S. officials.

    Milei arrived at the cemetery, located in Queens, New York, just after 9 A.M. with his entourage, where he met Rabbi Simon Jacobson, who has become somewhat of an informal advisor and mentor. Milei was visibly emotional when he met Rabbi Jacobson at the entrance of the site, and they went together to pray at the grave.

  18. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by ClaytonB View Post
    But you're missing the larger point...


    Yes, it's amazing how you fair-weather posters suddenly materialize out of the aether whenever there is a geopolitical event with potentially material consequences to US imperial politics. Truly amazing...
    Yeah, I don't get it. We are in a battle of ideas, not personalities. The people of Argentina voted for our ideas over the cronyism of government power. And yet, when our ideas win, they want to change the conversation into a battle of personalities.

    We have a winning message. There's a lesson there. Regardless of whether or not the messenger is perfect.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  20. #377
    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...u-s-officials/

    Milei has repeatedly vowed that he would dramatically change Argentina’s foreign policy, currently oriented under leftist rule towards China, Russia, and Iran, as Breitbart previously reported.

    Rabbi Jacobson told Breitbart that he believes there is divine intervention at play in Milei’s election, amid the turmoil in the Middle East, stoked and funded by Iran.

    “We were speaking earlier, I was sitting with him for breakfast, and I said to him that, ‘you’re here at the Ohel, it’s historic times now with everything going on in Israel, and all the chaos.’ To have a leader like him, if he shows an example, he can have influence on all the leaders of the countries of the world. Because leadership is lacking, and he can be that, kind of, moral example,” Jacobson said. “He could change the world.”

    “I find it serendipitous here, that in the middle of all that’s going on in the Middle East, in Israel, and here we are, and he becomes president, an underdog, and in a landslide win— there’s a lot of elements that sound to me like there’s some type of deeper choreography, an invisible hand at work,” Jacobson continued, adding that he is “honored to be part of it.”
    Last edited by vita3; 11-27-2023 at 04:13 PM.

  21. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Yeah, I don't get it. We are in a battle of ideas, not personalities. The people of Argentina voted for our ideas over the cronyism of government power. And yet, when our ideas win, they want to change the conversation into a battle of personalities.

    We have a winning message. There's a lesson there. Regardless of whether or not the messenger is perfect.
    So, forget about personality, the man is actually considering giving away taxpayer property to a small group of govt workers. I would still be bringing it up even if Ron Paul himself proposed such a silly policy. The problem with a charlatan/con man using liberty message to win is this, when he actually fails as a leader, his failures will be blamed on his and his campaign promises.

  22. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    No, it won't, because that particular most likely money losing institution is already taken away from the necks of ordinary Argentines.

    Make up your mind. Is it a $20-40 a head gold mine? Or is it a millstone? Because if it's a millstone, the only Argentines who are in danger of being dragged under with it are the laid off bureaucrats and bureaucratic labor who know it best and think they can make it pay. Are they being rewarded for being ex bureaucrats, or just taking a big risk? Make up your mind.

    Proprietorship in the 21st Century. Running a company from the shop floor, instead of phoning it in from a thousand miles away. Service providers with a stake in their own personal professional life. Sacrilegious! I like it.

    Why shouldn't he try to keep the one locally owned airline operating? You don't think it has the potential to speed the country's economic recovery enough to mean more than twenty bucks' worth of prosperity? Think all his constituents are Luddites? Does he have any other way to insure that the Schwabbies don't cut the whole country off out of spite?

    At times like these I pause and ask myself, what does he know that I don't?
    Lemme try again, the airline assets has value that can be used by a proper business to make profit. Lets say for example the value of the plane, route, brand etc is $1 billion. They can still be losing money every year with that asset. When this asset is sold, the proceeds can still be used to enrich the citizens. In addition to that, when the money losing airline is slashed off, the govt will gain by not losing money.

    There is no contradiction in my post.

  23. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Yeah, I don't get it. We are in a battle of ideas, not personalities. The people of Argentina voted for our ideas over the cronyism of government power. And yet, when our ideas win, they want to change the conversation into a battle of personalities.

    We have a winning message. There's a lesson there. Regardless of whether or not the messenger is perfect.
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  24. #381
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  25. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    A sabre is being rattled.

    Do you need a safe space, snowflake?

    Argentina isn't starting any shooting wars any time soon. News flash: They're broke.



    Another piece of evidence that all the skeptics and kneejerk naysayers were wrong to call Milei a stooge of the Fed.
    Argentina is fully capable of launching a war whether they are broke or not.
    And how is shedding his libertarian advisors for establishment stooges from the current regime supposed to show the skeptics wrong?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Argentina is fully capable of launching a war whether they are broke or not.
    It isn't going to happen, though, Chicken Little.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Yeah, I don't get it. We are in a battle of ideas, not personalities. The people of Argentina voted for our ideas over the cronyism of government power. And yet, when our ideas win, they want to change the conversation into a battle of personalities.
    You mean like this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    And how is shedding his libertarian advisors for establishment stooges from the current regime supposed to show the skeptics wrong?
    This from the double-talker we have all seen sneer and spit at libertarians repeatedly for eight years.

    These yeehaw socialists are just angry because they're America Firsters. But because they traded real conservatism for Trump fascism, Argentina is First to enjoy the benefits of liberty, not America. Unless they can sabotage Argentina out of pure spite, that is.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 11-28-2023 at 07:56 AM.

  27. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    It isn't going to happen, though, Chicken Little.



    You mean like this?



    This from the double-talker we have all seen sneer and spit at libertarians repeatedly for eight years.

    These yeehaw socialists are just angry because they're America Firsters. But because they traded real conservatism for Trump fascism, Argentina is First to enjoy the benefits of liberty, not America. Unless they can sabotage Argentina out of pure spite, that is.
    There are good libertarians and bad libertarians, most libertarians are better than the establishment.
    Throwing over libertarians in favor of leftist establishment is nothing but a bad sign.
    Perhaps he will turn out to be better than he is worse as was the case with Trump, if he does I will give him the same credit.
    It's very good that the people voted for him, but it won't do much good if he ends up betraying them.

    Your opinion about the implied war is utterly irrelevant.

    And nobody traded real conservatism away, Trump is not a fascist. (only a leftist like you would claim that, you should try not to use the MSM talking points on this site)
    Trump was simply the best option we had who also was able to win.

    Nobody is trying to sabotage Argentina. (unless it is Milei and he ends up betraying them)

    Your debating skills continue to decline along with your logic.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



  28. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  29. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    There are good libertarians and bad libertarians, most libertarians are better than the establishment.
    And this attitude entitles you to come visit us with your rolled-up newspaper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Throwing over libertarians in favor of leftist establishment is nothing but a bad sign.
    You don't even know enough to make that statement plural. You saw one note about one advisor being replaced, and with no knowledge of the exact circumstances and no reason at all to call it a trend, you have your broad brush out and you're trying to condemn a libertarian before he even has a chance to screw up properly. And this after you admitted to the possibility that it was the right thing to do anyway, by stating that "most libertarians are better..." (nice of you to spare a fond remembrance of Bob Barr).

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Perhaps he will turn out to be better than he is worse as was the case with Trump, if he does I will give him the same credit.
    Like you do Thomas Massie?

    All he has to do is say he isn't terribly fond of Trump's hair and you'll instantly proclaim him an abject failure. So what good is your opinion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    (only a leftist like you would claim that, you should try not to use the MSM talking points on this site)...
    Boy, you sure were proud when you learned left from right so you could finally get the correct shoe on each foot. It's a real pity they didn't teach you about up and down, northeast and southwest, all the myriad directions humans can go when they're not trapped in a narrow corridor of their own device, unaware of anything the world has to offer but what's to the left and what's to the right. Come at you from any of those beautiful other directions and you can't comprehend. You blink in your dazed befuddlement and exclaim, "But you must have come from The Left! There is no place else!"

    The Trump government conspired with corporations with names like Pfizer and Moderna to conduct experiments on such a wide swath of the population it would make Dr. Mengele blush. What makes you so insane as to think that if you keep denying your favorite fascist is a fascist, I will stop reminding you of exactly how exactly he exactly fits the definition?

    And no, before you go into kneejerk human metronome mode and make the baseless, senseless accusation, no I am not denying for one second that Joe Biden is also a fascist.

    I don't know how the Alt-Propaganda convinced you that Trump is some kind of gold standard and that Milei doesn't measure up. But believing that tripe doesn't make you a friend of liberty.



    Doesn't just go for the Left's favorite absurdities. If you want to destroy a people you divide them into two "sides", you feed them both absurdities, and you pit them against each other for fun, profit and power. And they have you taking random and unfounded pot shots in the dark at this duly elected libertarian before he even gets sworn in so he can start screwing up.

    Who financed the death jab again? Don't see Milei doing that $#@!. Until he does, Milei >>> Trump and that's a hard, indisputable fact. So remember that as you toss out random accusations you gleaned from some fact you found out of context, and want to call a trend for propaganda purposes.

    Want to know what I find funniest about all this? It's the way the MSM keeps repeating and repeating and repeating that he and Trump are somehow similar. You can't even see that all those noises are simply a sales job for Trump, Your Personal Anti - Christ.

    The guy you cuck for has already been in office. We all already know what a screw up he is. The more doom you forecast for this untried entity the more insanely jealous you look.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Did you know that Argentina is 85% white?
    Good. So we can take all these posts from these kneejerk naysayers, these armchair revolutionary litmus testers, these Trump fanbois who know Milei is about to make their orange god suffer hugely in the comparison, and move them to the "Taking Things From White People" thread? Well, Milei isn't even mine, but this white boy still won't give him up without a fight. At least not until he has an actual chance to screw the pooch as completely as Trump did.
    Last edited by acptulsa; 11-28-2023 at 10:57 AM.

  30. #386
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  31. #387

  32. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by John-G View Post
    //
    Here are a few of the "fake" books published by the "fake libertarian puppet"...



    Here's a "fake" statement from "fake" Spanish libertarians congratulating Milei for his victory:

    A Statement on Javier Milei from Spanish Libertarians
    11/20/2023
    Jesús Huerta de Soto
    Philipp Bagus

    Senior Fellow Jesús Huerta de Soto and Fellow Philipp Bagus write:

    In our own name and in the name of the rest of the Spanish libertarians and anarcho-capitalists we want to send Javier Milei our most enthusiastic congratulations. Today is a historic day for liberty only comparable to the fall of the Berlin Wall and communism. For the first time in history an anarcho-capitalist has won the Presidency of a country as important as Argentina. This shows that in the end the ideas of liberty against statism, left or right, end up prevailing. Mises, Hayek, Rothbard and the great thinkers and theoreticians of liberty planted the ideas that Milei have had the enormous merit of making attractive to the broadest layers of the population and, especially, to the most vulnerable who are always the main victims of the manipulations of socialists and interventionists of all stripes. We are now advising him closely especially on the necessity to establish a 100 per cent reserve ratio on his dollarization process to avoid any new "corralitos." Viva la libertad carajo.
    Oh, and here's an idea: Javier Milei Is Not a Problem for Argentina. Socialism Is.

    But hey, whenever a globalist regime gets shaken up by a chainsaw-wielding populist spitting on the grave of Marx and cussing out leftards on national broadcast TV, that's just 17-trillion dimensional hyper-chess being played by George Soros... Just take the damn white-pill already...

    Last edited by ClaytonB; 11-28-2023 at 11:22 PM.
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  33. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by John-G View Post
    Puppet meets IMF & Jake Sullivan, Blinken

  34. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post

    Boy, you sure were proud when you learned left from right so you could finally get the correct shoe on each foot.
    Well, have you seen his shoes? I mean, it looks kind of tough to tell.


    On Trump:
    How conservative Republicans can continue to support this arrogant imposter—the man who brags about inflicting the world with the Covid mark of the beast; the man who said, “Take the guns first, go through due process second”; and the man who deliberately played and then set up Stewart Rhodes (of course, Stewart was all too eager to be Trump’s patsy) for an 18-year prison sentence—is truly beyond my comprehension.” Chuck Baldwin

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