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Thread: 16 false Trump electors face felony charges in Michigan

  1. #1

    16 false Trump electors face felony charges in Michigan

    16 false Trump electors face felony charges in Michigan

    https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...l/70427042007/

    18 July 2023

    Lansing — Attorney General Dana Nessel is leveling felony charges against 16 Republicans who signed a certificate falsely stating that Donald Trump won Michigan's 2020 presidential election, launching criminal cases against top political figures inside the state GOP.

    Each of the 16 electors, including former Michigan Republican Party Co-Chairwoman Meshawn Maddock and Shelby Township Clerk Stan Grot, have been charged with eight felony counts, including forgery and conspiracy to commit election law forgery, according to Nessel's office.

    The revelation capped six months of investigation and produced the most serious allegations yet in Michigan over the campaign to overturn Trump's loss to Democrat Joe Biden in 2020. Biden won the state by 154,000 votes or 3 percentage points, but Trump and his supporters maintained false and unproven claims that fraud swung the result.

    As part of the push to undermine Biden's victory, Trump supporters gathered inside the then-Michigan Republican Party headquarters on Dec. 14, 2020, and signed a certificate, claiming to cast the state's 16 electoral votes for Trump.

    Eventually, the false certificate was sent to the National Archives and Congress. The document inaccurately claimed the Trump electors had met inside the Michigan Capitol. However, they hadn't. Biden's electors convened inside the Capitol, and the building was closed to others on Dec. 14, 2020.

    "The false electors’ actions undermined the public’s faith in the integrity of our elections and, we believe, also plainly violated the laws by which we administer our elections in Michigan," said Nessel, a Democrat, in a statement.

    "My department has prosecuted numerous cases of election law violations throughout my tenure, and it would be malfeasance of the greatest magnitude if my department failed to act here in the face of overwhelming evidence of an organized effort to circumvent the lawfully cast ballots of millions of Michigan voters in a presidential election."

    The 16 defendants are:

    Kathy Berden, 70, of Snover
    William (Hank) Choate, 72, of Cement City
    Amy Facchinello, 55, of Grand Blanc
    Clifford Frost, 75, of Warren
    Stanley Grot, 71, of Shelby Township
    John Haggard, 82, of Charlevoix
    Mari-Ann Henry, 65, of Brighton
    Timothy King, 56, of Ypsilanti
    Michele Lundgren, 73, of Detroit
    Meshawn Maddock, 55, of Milford
    James Renner, 76, of Lansing
    Mayra Rodriguez, 64, of Grosse Pointe Farms
    Rose Rook, 81, of Paw Paw
    Marian Sheridan, 69, of West Bloomfield
    Ken Thompson, 68, of Orleans
    Kent Vanderwood, 69, of Wyoming

    Republicans criticized the charges on Tuesday, contending they were politically motivated. Vance Patrick, chairman of the Oakland County Republican Party, called the charges an overreach by Nessel.

    "This is an egregious abuse of power by a radical progressive and continues the trend of politically motivated witch hunts, perpetrated by the left against Republican candidates and activists," Patrick said in a Tuesday statement.

    But Democrats, such as Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson, touted them. Benson said the nation was beginning to "see accountability and justice for those who were part of an actionable plan to subvert the will of the people in 2020."

    Derek Muller, a law professor at Notre Dame Law School, said the criminal charges leveled are a "fraught" area of the law.

    "... (I) am quite skeptical of this indictment but I'll need some time to collect my thoughts," Muller added in a post on Twitter.

    Ryan Goodman, a law professor New York University School of Law, called the charges "a strong case" and noted the fake electors signed a sworn statement attesting "we convened and organized in the State Capitol."

    "In truth, they met (secretly) in GOP headquarters basement," Goodman wrote on Twitter.

    Eight felonies outlined

    The felony complaints indicate the warrants for each of the electors were signed Thursday and Friday of last week, according to copies of the documents.

    In addition to Maddock and Grot, Kathy Berden, the Republican national committeewoman from Michigan; Kent Vanderwood, the mayor of Wyoming; and Marian Sheridan, grassroots vice chairwoman of the Michigan Republican Party, are also facing charges.

    Each of the 16 electors is charged with eight felonies: two counts of election law forgery; two counts of forgery; and one count each of uttering and publishing, conspiracy to commit forgery, conspiracy to commit election law forgery and conspiracy to commit forgery.

    Conspiracy to commit forgery and conspiracy to commit uttering and publishing, which carry the steepest penalties, are both punishable by up to 14 years in prison and a $10,000 fine.

    The conspiracy charges allege the defendants worked with Berden, Maddock and others to falsely make a public record: the certificate of votes of the 2020 electors from Michigan.

    In a Tuesday afternoon phone interview, one of the Trump electors, John Haggard, 82, of Charlevoix said he had not been previously informed that he was being charged with felonies. After a reporter told him of the news, Haggard initially thought the charges were coming from federal prosecutors, not the state attorney general.

    Haggard said he didn't believe there was any policy in the country that prevented people from making "a statement."

    “Did I do anything illegal? No," Haggard said.

    Another of the 16 electors, Michele Lundgren, said she was distraught over the charges and she questioned what evidence prosecutors had.

    The 73-year-old Detroiter said she had simply received a call on Dec. 13, 2020, to be in Lansing the following day. While there, Lundgren said she signed what she thought was a sign-in sheet.

    “We signed a blank piece of paper," Lundgren said. "And that’s all can tell you."

    According to Nessel's office, when the electors gathered on Dec. 14, 2020, at the state GOP headquarters on Seymour Avenue in Lansing to sign the false certificate, Renner and Thompson were "selected" as replacements for two Republican electors who did not attend: Gerald Wall and Terri Lynn Land, the former two-term secretary of state.

    "Neither Land nor Wall signed the document," according to an affidavit signed by Howard Schock, a special agent investigator in Nessel's office.

    'Ongoing investigation'

    After initially referring the matter to federal prosecutors in January, Nessel reopened a state-level investigation into the fake Trump electors, citing new documents released by a U.S. House committee that investigated the Jan. 6, 2021, failed attempted insurrection at the U.S. Capitol.

    In testimony before the committee, Laura Cox, who was chairwoman of the Michigan Republican Party in 2020, said she had prepared a document for the Trump electors to sign on Dec. 14, 2020, that said they had merely participated in a ceremony and "would cast their votes" for the Republican president if given the chance.

    Cox told U.S. House investigators that the intent behind the document she pushed for was to state that the Republican Trump electors were willing to serve and vote for Trump if "something were to happen in the courts" in the future to overturn the result.

    However, the electors participated in an event in the basement of Michigan GOP headquarters on Dec. 14, 2020, that produced a certificate that claimed Trump had won the state's 16 electoral votes.

    An affidavit prepared by Nessel's office in support of the complaint indicated Republican staffers in interviews with investigators said non-electors were blocked from entering the building and electors were required to surrender their cellphones to prevent any recording of the event. GOP elector Mayra Rodriguez would later tell the Jan. 6 Select Committee that Trump campaign aide Shawn Flynn was present and spoke to the electors at the site.

    Later, four of the false electors — Lundgren, Maddock, Sheridan and Thompson — appeared at the state Capitol Dec. 14, 2020, with Republican then-state Rep. Daire Rendon, who said the "electors" were there to cast votes, the document said. But they were turned away by the Michigan State Police.

    Attorney Ian Northon attempted to deliver a manila envelope similar to the size of the certificate to the Michigan Senate, claiming it contained the Republican electoral votes, the filing said. The U.S. National Archives and U.S. Senate Archives later reported receiving a copy of the false certificate from Berden.

    Cellphone records obtained from Berden indicated she and Haggard shared some concerns over text on Dec. 14, 2020, regarding Maddock posting about the incident on Facebook, according to the affidavit.

    "Was she not told at the meeting to keep quite (sic)," Haggard wrote, according to the affidavit.

    "Yes we all were," Berden replied.

    "Right. If she can't keep quite (sic) after taking the oath what would she do as vice chair?" wrote Haggard, according to the affidavit.

    The affidavit cited several instances in which Maddock, Sheridan, Grot and Thompson admitted to signing the document.

    Michigan election law bans someone from knowingly making or publishing a false document "with the intent to defraud."

    Each defendant, or their attorneys, has been notified of the charges, and the court will provide each with a date to appear in Ingham County district court for an arraignment, Nessel's office said.

    "This remains an ongoing investigation, and the Michigan Department of Attorney General has not ruled out potential charges against additional defendants," Nessel's office said.
    The whole narrative is absurd on its face - at the same time the USA was both founded on White supremacy, slavery, and genocide, yet always meant to be a place that infinity Africans, Indians, and South Americans could come for a "better life"? - Unknown



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  3. #2
    tim pool is right
    #ohwell
    FLIP THOSE FLAGS, THE NATION IS IN DISTRESS!


    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  4. #3
    They know. They know they stole an election. Which is why they are bringing charges against those that dared utter the truth.


    Look, we ALL know the last Presidential election was stolen - even if some of us won't admit it. If you were the beneficiary of a stolen election, would you admit it?
    The question isn't "if" the election was stolen - it's "how"? And neither side seems too interested in digging too deep. Because they all know.

    I remember after the OJ verdict, there was a period of time where people felt uncomfortable admitting the truth. But pretty much everyone now can say OJ got away with murder. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I'm hoping that will end up like that. A few years down the line when these idiots are dead and gone, history will acknowledge that the whole world went nuts. They'll probably blame the virus, but things were going nuts before that appeared - that just provided an excuse.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  5. #4
    The evidence against them is strong. I can't see the point in putting a bunch of old people in jail for this. Give them a fine and move on. They got caught up in the whole Trump mess, lots did.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Too bad us mundanes don't get to use the "no harm, no foul" defense for victimless "crimes".

    "Some animals", and all that ...

    https://twitter.com/TPostMillennial/...94331481604096
    //
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    The evidence against them is strong. I can't see the point in putting a bunch of old people in jail for this. Give them a fine and move on. They got caught up in the whole Trump mess, lots did.
    You can't see the point?

    A blind man could see the point.

    Murder, mayhem and larceny goes unpunished daily in this country.

    But don't you dare try and pull a stunt like this, proles, don't you dare try to disrupt the Uni-Party's four year farce, or we will utterly destroy you.
    The whole narrative is absurd on its face - at the same time the USA was both founded on White supremacy, slavery, and genocide, yet always meant to be a place that infinity Africans, Indians, and South Americans could come for a "better life"? - Unknown

  8. #7
    Don't electors have the ability to cast their votes for whomever they want?
    "An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government" - Ron Paul.

    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you arent allowed to criticize."

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by unknown View Post
    Don't electors have the ability to cast their votes for whomever they want?
    hmmm i thought so


    sounds like they makin it up as they go along...not good
    FLIP THOSE FLAGS, THE NATION IS IN DISTRESS!


    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?



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  11. #9
    [...] but Trump and his supporters maintained false and unproven claims that fraud swung the result.
    "Disproven", dammit! [1]

    "Unproven" [2] specifically and necessarily implies that neither verification nor falsification has (yet) occurred.

    We deserve better-lettered propaganda.

    (Or, hell, maybe we don't.)



    [1] Or "disproved", on days when my Grammar Nazi jackboots are pinching especially tight.

    [2] Or "unproved", on the same days as for [1].
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 07-19-2023 at 07:15 AM.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    The evidence against them is strong. I can't see the point in putting a bunch of old people in jail for this. Give them a fine and move on. They got caught up in the whole Trump mess, lots did.
    You can't see the point?

    A blind man could see the point.

    Murder, mayhem and larceny goes unpunished daily in this country.

    But don't you dare try and pull a stunt like this, proles, don't you dare try to disrupt the Uni-Party's four year farce, or we will utterly destroy you.
    Entirely regardless of who "really" won which races, there were numerous "irregularities" in clear violation of various election rules and regulations in Maricopa county, Arizona - and yet, not a single person has been charged with any crime (or otherwise been held accountable in any way), despite the fact that those "irregularities" were consequential (even if the ultimate outcome would have been unchanged).

    But some schmucks in Michigan sign a worthless piece of paper that had zero consequences of any kind (not even minor ones), and ...


    #AnarchoTyranny
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 07-19-2023 at 07:39 AM.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by unknown View Post
    Don't electors have the ability to cast their votes for whomever they want?
    They do, but they have to be real electors first, not just a bunch of Trump lemmings pretending they have some sort of official status.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    They do, but they have to be real electors first, not just a bunch of Trump lemmings pretending they have some sort of official status.
    So if they are just lemmings and have no official status, what does it matter what they sign or claim to be?
    The whole narrative is absurd on its face - at the same time the USA was both founded on White supremacy, slavery, and genocide, yet always meant to be a place that infinity Africans, Indians, and South Americans could come for a "better life"? - Unknown

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    #AnarchoTyranny
    Exactly right.

    Just one of many things I did not think was even possible, yet, here we are.
    The whole narrative is absurd on its face - at the same time the USA was both founded on White supremacy, slavery, and genocide, yet always meant to be a place that infinity Africans, Indians, and South Americans could come for a "better life"? - Unknown

  16. #14
    Really don't see how this is a felony. These people have absolutely no power and their 'alternate elector slate' has no validity. Kinda like applying for a bank loan using a fraudulent I.D. but the I.D. you choose is 'Mickey Mouse.' Yeah you broke the law but the real question is, what retard would take it seriously?
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by jkr View Post
    tim pool is right
    #ohwell
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    The evidence against them is strong. I can't see the point in putting a bunch of old people in jail for this. Give them a fine and move on. They got caught up in the whole Trump mess, lots did.
    The no evidence thing in Michigan is a pretty weird statement. I lived in Michigan most of my life so I paid pretty close attention. A detail that was only ever spoken about by Crowder right after the election is the results in Detroit. As counting was progressing Trump had a healthy lead in the state. Then the poll watchers were kicked out of Cobo hall, the windows taped up, and all of a sudden, 200 thousand completely unanswered votes we're added to Biden's count. Biden ended up winning Detroit, a city of 690 thousand people with approximately 750 thousand to 150 thousand. So in a city of 690 thousand people, with many immigrants that aren't naturalized yet, and children, about 900 thousand people voted. These were official results that were given by Wayne county to the state in the final count, and for the first two weeks were easily verifiable by going to the county website. Afterwards the results were removed.

    On top of that, a person in their 170s voted in Flint, along with two in their 150s and several more in their 130s. Plenty of evidence for anyone paying attention.

    In the end, I don't even blame the Marxist democrats anymore than I would blame a honey badger that was left to run wild in a chicken coup. A Marxist is going to be a Marxist. I blame the cowardly Republicans that let the three witches of Lansing, Whitener, Nessel, and Benson do as they please with zero checks on their authority. The Republicans in Michigan's legislature had a long time solid majority but completely ceeded their constitutional responsibility of oversight on the executive branch.
    Last edited by Matt4Liberty; 07-19-2023 at 07:41 PM.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    They know. They know they stole an election. Which is why they are bringing charges against those that dared utter the truth.


    Look, we ALL know the last Presidential election was stolen - even if some of us won't admit it. If you were the beneficiary of a stolen election, would you admit it?
    The question isn't "if" the election was stolen - it's "how"? And neither side seems too interested in digging too deep. Because they all know.
    ...
    Very simple. You only have to cheat in a few key metro areas in swing states. People like Soros and Zuckerberg fund it, and it is strategically planned at the DNC.

    Meanwhile Republicans think if they raise money for ads and make a lot of campaign appearances they will win.

    One side is playing checkers, one side is playing chess and cheating too.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Very simple. You only have to cheat in a few key metro areas in swing states. People like Soros and Zuckerberg fund it, and it is strategically planned at the DNC.

    Meanwhile Republicans think if they raise money for ads and make a lot of campaign appearances they will win.

    One side is playing checkers, one side is playing chess and cheating too.
    They both have their methods of cheating. Usually, there is a sort of balance so they both cheat fairly equally. But in 2020, they changed a whole bunch of rules in a whole bunch of states to favor the democratic candidate. And they rigged access to information. And they (probably) still had to rig machines.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    They both have their methods of cheating. Usually, there is a sort of balance so they both cheat fairly equally. But in 2020, they changed a whole bunch of rules in a whole bunch of states to favor the democratic candidate. And they rigged access to information. And they (probably) still had to rig machines.
    And all of that works better when you control the judiciary and DOJs...
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    //
    makes me laugh everytime i hear it
    Do something Danke

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt4Liberty View Post
    In the end, I don't even blame the Marxist democrats anymore than I would blame a honey badger that was left to run wild in a chicken coup.
    When a malapropism becomes hard truth.
    The whole narrative is absurd on its face - at the same time the USA was both founded on White supremacy, slavery, and genocide, yet always meant to be a place that infinity Africans, Indians, and South Americans could come for a "better life"? - Unknown

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    They know. They know they stole an election. Which is why they are bringing charges against those that dared utter the truth.
    Which truth did they utter? Was it that they were the duly appointed electors of the state of Michigan, or that they met in the state house?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  25. #22
    When one group senses it's about to be busted for doing something wrong, they immediately blame their accusers for doing the exact same thing they are being accused of.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt4Liberty View Post
    A detail that was only ever spoken about by Crowder right after the election is the results in Detroit. As counting was progressing Trump had a healthy lead.
    Trump received only 3% of the Detroit vote in 2016. To believe he ever had a lead, healthy or otherwise, in 2020 is ludicrous.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Trump received only 3% of the Detroit vote in 2016. To believe he ever had a lead, healthy or otherwise, in 2020 is ludicrous.
    I should have been more clear. He had a healthy lead in Michigan overall, not Detroit. Detroit will always go to the democrat. Edited the previous post to make that more clear.



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  29. #25
    Marxists in 2016.

    AnarchoTyranny.


    https://twitter.com/i/status/1681982007197282304

    The whole narrative is absurd on its face - at the same time the USA was both founded on White supremacy, slavery, and genocide, yet always meant to be a place that infinity Africans, Indians, and South Americans could come for a "better life"? - Unknown

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Marxists in 2016.

    AnarchoTyranny.


    https://twitter.com/i/status/1681982007197282304

    How many false elector rolls were submitted in 2016?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    How many false elector rolls were submitted in 2016?
    For that matter, in January 2017 why didn't Vice President Biden use Trump's method and simply reject enough electors to insure Hillary's election?
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    For that matter, in January 2017 why didn't Vice President Biden use Trump's method and simply reject enough electors to insure Hillary's election?
    I wonder who Kamala will choose as President
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    How many false elector rolls were submitted in 2016?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    For that matter, in January 2017 why didn't Vice President Biden use Trump's method and simply reject enough electors to insure Hillary's election?
    They went beyond meetings and pointless sign in sheets.

    They actually got five people to break state election law and become "faithless electors".

    As far as I know, not a one of them were prosecuted.
    The whole narrative is absurd on its face - at the same time the USA was both founded on White supremacy, slavery, and genocide, yet always meant to be a place that infinity Africans, Indians, and South Americans could come for a "better life"? - Unknown

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    They went beyond meetings and pointless sign in sheets.

    They actually got five people to break state election law and become "faithless electors".

    As far as I know, not a one of them were prosecuted.
    "Pointless sign in sheets" is a strange way to refer to the production and filing of false public records. Generally speaking I think that's called fraud and forgery.


    Anyway, as for these faithless electors, what crimes should they have been charged with?
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.

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