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Thread: Trump indictment #2: classified documents @ Mar-a-Lago [US / federal]

  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pinochet is the model
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Liberty preserving authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Enforced internal open borders was one of the worst elements of the Constitution.



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  3. #302
    Trial set for less than 2 months away in August and DJT is publicly admitting to taking the documents after pleading not guilty, but with a mea culpa excuse? This is not a serious (real) trial. No attorney lets his client run around admitting to charges in public and federal trials for 37 felonies are not scheduled to start less than 2 months after arraignment and entering a not guilty plea.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  4. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    No attorney lets his client run around admitting to charges in public
    Some pig-headed and narcissistic clients don't take their attorneys' advice.

    I doubt very much that the trial will begin in August.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  5. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny Tufts View Post
    Some pig-headed and narcissistic clients don't take their attorneys' advice.

    I doubt very much that the trial will begin in August.
    (caveat: assuming the CNBC article I read is complete and accurate, I haven't looked at PACER)

    In most cases I would agree with you but federal felony criminal (or even civil) trial dates are not set before even any pretrial procedures are undertaken, rocket docket or not. That just doesn't happen. Judge sets motions deadlines, discovery timelines, etc first. You're an attorney so you know this is true. Plus the timing of it commencing mid to late August will make for a great distraction into September, which will likely be a very eventful month, given a certain anniversary in September. We'll see I guess but it's another example of Trump's "trials" following none of the usual court rules of procedure. Federal court is especially strict about adhering to rules of procedure....
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book



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  7. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    (caveat: assuming the CNBC article I read is complete and accurate, I haven't looked at PACER)

    In most cases I would agree with you but federal felony criminal (or even civil) trial dates are not set before even any pretrial procedures are undertaken, rocket docket or not. That just doesn't happen. Judge sets motions deadlines, discovery timelines, etc first. You're an attorney so you know this is true. Plus the timing of it commencing mid to late August will make for a great distraction into September, which will likely be a very eventful month, given a certain anniversary in September. We'll see I guess but it's another example of Trump's "trials" following none of the usual court rules of procedure. Federal court is especially strict about adhering to rules of procedure....
    Given that this is a Trump-appointed judge whose previous pro-Trump ruling granting a special master to review the documents Trump took was overturned by the 11th Circuit in an opinion that was rather critical of her, I doubt that she's anti-Trump.

    I'm not a litigator, but my guess is she knows the trial isn't going to start in August AND she knows that Trump's attorneys are going to file every pretrial motion under the sun in order to delay, delay, delay. So maybe this August setting is a shot across the bow saying that she's not doing to play the delay game and that she'll make sure the trial occurs well before the election.
    We have long had death and taxes as the two standards of inevitability. But there are those who believe that death is the preferable of the two. "At least," as one man said, "there's one advantage about death; it doesn't get worse every time Congress meets."
    Erwin N. Griswold

    Taxes: Of life's two certainties, the only one for which you can get an automatic extension.
    Anonymous

  8. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  9. #307
    I'm a potential juror, the trial is one city south of me. My area will be favorable for Trump vs. Miami.

  10. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    I'm a potential juror, the trial is one city south of me. My area will be favorable for Trump vs. Miami.
    If you become a juror and have any bias, please check it at the door.

  11. #309
    CLIP from Part of the Problem #1006:

    The Case Against Trump
    https://rumble.com/v2vm195-the-case-against-trump.html

  12. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged View Post
    If you become a juror and have any bias, please check it at the door.
    I have no interest. But I would convict him. Republicans outnumber Democrats more than 2 to 1 in all the counties that will provide jurors here. I would be surprised if he is convicted.

  13. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by 69360 View Post
    I have no interest. But I would convict him. Republicans outnumber Democrats more than 2 to 1 in all the counties that will provide jurors here. I would be surprised if he is convicted.
    How can you state you would convict when you haven't even been presented with the trial or evidence?

  14. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged View Post
    How can you state you would convict when you haven't even been presented with the trial or evidence?
    It's simple. Unless, of course, you have no interest, in which case it's impossible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.



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  16. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    It's simple. Unless, of course, you have no interest, in which case it's impossible.
    Yeah, pretty sure I'd nullify that jury if I was there.

    Is he guilty of the charges? Sure. Is every President guilty of those same "offenses"? Of course. Was anyone harmed by the actions they're accusing him of?? You'd have to show me something at least... There are plenty of reasons to bring charges against Trump, but they're charging him with offending some uptight librarian?!
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  17. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    There are plenty of reasons to bring charges against Trump, but they're charging him with offending some uptight librarian?!
    That. Same with the impeachments. Excuse me? All the things you could nail him on, and you're off chasing this silliness?

    Oooh, he's indicted! They must really hate him! Any seat belt ticket involves an indictment. If indicting him is all it takes to get that many people to completely ignore his whole record, I'm sure he doesn't mind a bit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  18. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged View Post
    How can you state you would convict when you haven't even been presented with the trial or evidence?
    I read the indictment and saw the photo evidence. I think he is guilty. FWIW I think he just needs a fine like Clinton got, not prison.

  19. #316
    CBS Report, Mysterious DoD Iran Attack Memo Does Not Exist and Is Not Part of Jack Smith Case Against Trump

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com...against-trump/
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  20. #317

  21. #318

  22. #319
    https://twitter.com/KanekoaTheGreat/...58841570250899

  23. #320
    THREAD: Trump's court dates

    The trial date currently set for this case is: 20 May 2024
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 08-30-2023 at 08:17 PM.



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  25. #321

  26. #322

    FL judge in Trump doc case unsealing records to Bolshevik Jack Smith's dismay


    https://twitter.com/julie_kelly2/sta...24837445091785

    If you have followed law and politics for any length of time, you have probably heard of “speaking indictments.” That’s where the prosecution will write an indictment or court motion with very granular -yet perhaps not pertinent- details of a case against a suspect that highlights a much bigger picture than a singular perspective against the individual defendant. The intent is to make the public aware of the details within a case by making them part of the court record.

    In the Special Counsel Jack Smith constructed Lawfare case against Donald Trump, what is generally called “the documents case”, involving the raid on Mar-a-Lago, President Trump’s attorney, Christopher Kise, did something similar to a speaking indictment with an extensive court motion on January 16, 2024. The 68-page motion is a comprehensive “speaking motion” which outlines a great deal of the fraud and Lawfare manipulation by the special counsel. [SEE DOCUMENT HERE]

    In response to the filing, using the pre-established legal narrative about needing to control “national security” information [SEE HERE], the Jack Smith team (essentially Lawfare operatives like Weissman, Eisen and McCord) redacted large portions of the Trump motion specifically to stop the public record from showing the outline. However, two days ago, April 22nd, Judge Aileen Cannon unsealed and more importantly ‘unredacted’ the motion.

    https://www.courtlistener.com/docket...tates-v-trump/
    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it.

    ~comment at Zero Hedge

  27. #323
    Judge Halts Trump’s Classified Docs Trial After DOJ Admits To Evidence Tampering
    BY: BRIANNA LYMAN - MAY 08, 2024

    U.S. District Court Judge Aileen Cannon postponed Special Counsel Jack Smith’s classified document lawfare case against former President Donald Trump indefinitely, days after the Department of Justice admitted it tampered with evidence.

    Cannon issued an order Tuesday that announced the schedule for the “second set of pre-trial deadlines” to address evidentiary issues and arguments from the Trump team for dismissing the case. Missing from the schedule, however, was a new date for the trial, which was previously set to begin May 20.

    [READ NEXT: Jack Smith’s Rush To Try Trump Before November Is ‘Obvious’ Election Meddling, Stefanik Complaint Says]

    “The Court also determines that finalization of a trial date at this juncture — before resolution of the myriad and interconnected pre-trial and CIPA [Classified Information Procedures Act] issues remaining and forthcoming — would be imprudent and inconsistent with the Court’s duty to fully and fairly consider the various pending pre-trial motions before the Court, critical CIPA issues, and additional pretrial and trial preparations necessary to present this case to a jury,” Cannon wrote in the order.

    Cannon’s order comes days after Smith admitted that federal prosecutors tampered with evidence in his case against Trump, which argues the former president mishandled classified documents. As independent journalist Julie Kelly pointed out on X, prosecutors admitted in a court filing Friday that some of the documents seized during the FBI’s unprecedented raid on Mar-a-Lago are not in the same order in which they were found. Others may have been mislabeled or possibly misplaced entirely, as my colleague Tristan Justice noted.
    ...
    More: https://thefederalist.com/2024/05/08...nce-tampering/
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
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  28. #324
    https://twitter.com/TomFitton/status...61039604085031

    UPDATE: Judge Cannon has put off indefinitely a Trump trial date in the sham documents prosecution by the Biden Regime. A few days after it was disclosed the Biden Justice Department and FBI misled the Court and the American people (in addition to tampering with evidence), Judge Cannon cited the large number of legal issues she must resolve before proceeding to trial:

    The Court also determines that finalization of a trial date at this juncture—before resolution of the myriad and interconnected pre-trial and CIPA issues remaining and forthcoming—would be imprudent and inconsistent with the Court’s duty to fully and fairly consider the various pending pre-trial motions before the Court, critical CIPA issues, and additional pretrial and trial preparations necessary to present this case to a jury. The Court therefore vacates the current May 20, 2024, trial date (and associated calendar call), to be reset by separate order following resolution of the matters before the Court, consistent with Defendants’ right to due process and the public’s interest in the fair and efficient administration of justice.

    This timeline is normal and not surprising but the Left's election riggers and civil rights abusers believe that Trump has no rights and will attack Judge Cannon for proceeding normally in this case and for not violating Trump's constitutional rights.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  29. #325
    The DOJ's Doctored Crime Scene Photo of Mar-a-Lago Raid
    New disclosures in Special Counsel Jack Smith's espionage case against Donald Trump reveal the FBI tampered with evidence to create the infamous photo--and DOJ has lied about it for nearly two years.

    It is the picture that launched a thousand pearl-clutching articles.

    A few weeks after the armed FBI raid of Mar-a-Lago in August 2022, the Department of Justice released a stunning photograph depicting alleged contraband seized from Donald Trump’s Palm Beach estate that day; the image showed colored sheets representing scary classification levels attached to files purportedly discovered in Trump’s private office.

    Included as a government exhibit to oppose Trump’s lawsuit requesting a special master to vet the 13,000 items taken from his residence, the crime scene pic immediately went viral—just as Attorney General Merrick Garland, who authorized the unprecedented raid, intended.

    At the time, even regime-friendly mouthpieces questioned the need and optics of the raid; the photo helped juice the DOJ’s justification for the storming of Trump’s castle.

    “[The] question of whether Trump had classified material with him at his Mar-a-Lago resort has captured the public’s attention. The photo published by the government appears to answer that question quite affirmatively,” Washington Post resident fact checker Philip Bump wrote on August 31, 2022.

    Some of Bump’s colleagues were more hyperbolic. An ex-CIA officer told ABC News the cover sheets indicated the highest level of secrecy, which in the wrong hands could have resulted in murder. “People's lives are truly at stake. Without being melodramatic, anything that helps an adversary identify a human source means life and death," intelligence expert Douglas London melodramatically warned in reaction to the photo.

    ...
    A Stunt with Potentially Case-Killing Consequences for DOJ

    New court filings in Special Counsel Jack Smith’s espionage and obstruction case against Trump and two co-defendants conclusively demonstrate that the government used the cover sheets to deceive the public as well as the court. The photo was a stunt, and one that adds more fuel to this dumpster-fire case.

    Jay Bratt, who was the lead DOJ prosecutor on the investigation at the time and now is assigned to Smith’s team, described the photo this way in his August 30, 2022 response to Trump’s special master lawsuit:

    “[Thirteen] boxes or containers contained documents with classification markings, and in all, over one hundred unique documents with classification markings…were seized. Certain of the documents had colored cover sheets indicating their classification status. (Emphasis added.) See, e.g., Attachment F (redacted FBI photograph of certain documents and classified cover sheets recovered from a container in the ‘45 office’).”

    The DOJ’s clever wordsmithing, however, did not accurately describe the origin of the cover sheets. In what must be considered not only an act of doctoring evidence but willfully misleading the American people into believing the former president is a criminal and threat to national security, agents involved in the raid attached the cover sheets to at least seven files to stage the photo.

    Classified cover sheets were not “recovered” in the container, contrary to Bratt’s declaration to the court. In fact, after being busted recently by defense attorneys for mishandling evidence in the case, Bratt had to fess up about how the cover sheets actually ended up on the documents.

    Here is Bratt’s new version of the story, where he finally admits a critical detail that he failed to disclose in his August 2022 filing:

    “[If] the investigative team found a document with classification markings, it removed the document, segregated it, and replaced it with a placeholder sheet. The investigative team used classified cover sheets for that purpose.”

    But before the official cover sheets were used as placeholder, agents apparently used them as props. FBI agents took it upon themselves to paperclip the sheets to documents—something evident given the uniform nature of how each cover sheet is clipped to each file in the photo—laid them on the floor, and snapped a picture for political posterity.

    That raises many troubling questions, to say the least, about the FBI’s handling of the alleged incriminating documents.

    For example, who made the on-site determination as to the classification level appropriate for each document? Did agents have security clearance and expertise related to classification? Did the agents know whether the document had been declassified by Trump while still in office?

    The hasty assessment also appears to contradict Bratt’s statements in court about the classification status of the seized documents. Bratt told Judge Aileen Cannon during a hearing last year that the records were undergoing a classification review, presumably conducted by the intelligence community, to determine the correct level of secrecy.

    Did the final analysis confirm or dispute the assessments by the field FBI agents who conducted the raid?

    Missing Paper Trial and Messy Boxes

    But Jack Smith might have bigger problems. During the raid, agents took a box in its entirety if it contained papers with classified markings; the box usually contained other items, which is how the FBI ended up with so many of Trump’s personal belongings.

    So, in order to flag the location of the alleged classified record in the box, agents, as Bratt noted, used the cover sheets as placeholders. (The classified records were then placed in a separate secure file.)

    But now defense attorneys claim, and the special counsel concedes, that some placeholders do not match the relevant document. “Following defense counsel’s review of the physical boxes…and the documents produced in classified discovery, defense counsel has learned that the cross-reference provided by the Special Counsel’s Office does not contain accurate information,” attorneys representing Trump’s co-defendant Waltine Nauta wrote in a May 1 motion.

    The motion forced the special counsel to admit the error. “In many but not all instances, the FBI was able to determine which document with classification markings corresponded to a particular placeholder sheet,” Bratt wrote.

    In other words, in their zeal to stage a phony photo using official classified cover sheets, FBI agents might have failed to accurately match the placeholder sheet with the appropriate document. This is a potentially case-blowing mistake, particularly if the document in question is one of the 34 records that represents the basis of espionage charges against Trump.

    And there is another issue in connection with the cover sheets. Defense attorneys also noted that in at least one instance, the location of the cover sheet in the physical box didn’t match the FBI’s accounting. “[The] sheet…does not appear for several hundreds of pages later than the FBI Index indicated it would. Defense counsel’s review of these materials calls into question the likelihood that the contents of the physical boxes remains (sic) the same as when they were seized by the FBI on August 8, 2022.”

    Which Bratt also admitted is an issue. After the boxes were transported from Florida to the hopelessly corrupt Washington FBI field office (another scandalous aspect of the case since the investigation should have been conducted in southern Florida not in another jurisdiction), a private company took scans of the inside of the boxes. But according to the defense team, the current condition of the boxes does not match the scans taken in August 2022.

    Bratt explained that “there are some boxes where the order of items within that box is not the same as in the associated scans.” He then offered a list of excuses including how some “boxes contain items smaller than standard paper such as index cards, books, and stationary, which shift easily when the boxes are carried, especially because many of the boxes are not full.”
    ...
    https://www.declassified.live/p/the-...me-scene-photo
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

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    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  30. #326
    What a surprise.

    Let me see if I have this straight now: with this case vacated until, whenever, that means that the only two cases left are the kangaroo court cases in NY and GA, correct?
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  31. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Let me see if I have this straight now: with this case vacated until, whenever, that means that the only two cases left are the kangaroo court cases in NY and GA, correct?
    No, there's still this one, too (indictment #3, re: 2020 election & January 6th).

    But that one is delayed until the arguments over "presidential immunity" are cleared up (that issue is currently before SCOTUS).

  32. #328
    Soap operas to give the Good Cop street cred, I believe I said. Designed not to be viable and to ultimately get thrown out, I believe I said. Republican candidates need victim cards to play was, if I remember correctly, the point I made.



    Last edited by acptulsa; 05-09-2024 at 05:16 AM.



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  34. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    What a surprise.

    Let me see if I have this straight now: with this case vacated until, whenever, that means that the only two cases left are the kangaroo court cases in NY and GA, correct?
    There has been an appeal to have D.A. Fani removed from the case. That one still might fall through.

    No other county in Georgia will take it up.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
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  35. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Soap operas to give the Good Cop street cred, I believe I said. Designed not to be viable and to ultimately get thrown out, I believe I said. Republican candidates need victim cards to play was, if I remember correctly, the point I made.



    So what is the remedy if it was proven that Biden was illegitimate POTUS? His term will be over and what is the consequence for stealing an election?

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