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  1. #1

    Capitol police shut down Christian children's choir singing national anthem. "Too offensive".

    Think they would have shut down the Harlem Boy's Choir, or the San Francisco Gay Men's Choir?



    Choir Director Tells Gateway Pundit After US Capitol Police Incident – “This is Not Over – They Should Invite Us Back at Their Expense and Let Us Sing”

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/202...ndit-after-us/

    By Jim Hoft Jun. 2, 2023 6:37 pm

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1664682489929924610



    On Friday, The Gateway Pundit reported earlier that the Rushingbrook Children’s Choir was stopped mid-performance while singing the National Anthem at the US Capitol because it is considered a “demonstration.”

    The children, part of the esteemed Rushingbrook Children’s Choir, had traveled to Washington, D.C. from South Carolina last Friday, May 26th, for a scheduled Capitol tour and had received prior approval to sing a short set of patriotic songs inside the historic Statuary Hall.

    “We set it up, email was approved in the Speaker’s office with three Congressional offices,” said Micah Rea, founder and principal of The Rea Group and organizer of the trip.

    South Carolina’s representatives, Joe Wilson, and William Timmons, were involved in granting the choir approval to enter the Capitol and had given their support to the performance.

    “We had Capitol Hill Police come up to us and Sergeant on Arm’s office and then also the Speaker’s office. And the Speaker’s office tells us via the phone, that the speaker’s office is okay with the singing. Go ahead with it,” Rea told one of the parents.

    “And then I have a Capitol security guy telling me it’s okay, here’s my card. Go ahead and start singing. If anybody comes up to you, just let ’em know. Here’s my card,” Rea added.

    However, as the choir’s angelic voices filled the grand hall while they sang The Star-Spangled Banner with pride, the man from Rep. Joe Wilson’s office intervened, as he was told by the Capitol police to “Go, shut them down.”

    The Gateway Pundit reached out to Mr. David Rasbach, Rushingbrook Children’s Choir Director, and shared with us what exactly happened.

    Here is an excerpt from our conversation:

    David Rasbach: The man who tapped me on the shoulder was from Joe Wilson’s office. He’s the one the police lady told to go shut us down. He came and tapped me on the shoulder, and I stopped the choir.

    I walked over with him to the Capitol Police, and there were three Capitol Police. One was female, two were male. And it was the female that spoke, the other two never spoke.

    I said, what’s the problem? And she said we can’t let you continue. I said, why not? And she said, this is considered a demonstration, and we don’t allow demonstrations inside the Capitol.

    I said, “This is not a demonstration. This is simply a group of children singing the National anthem.” And she said, “Well, that’s considered a demonstration. We can’t allow you to continue.” And I said you’re telling me that a group of children can’t sing the National Anthem in their own Capitol? And she said, “That’s right.”

    And then she said something, it might offend or it might be offensive to some.

    I told her that we had permissions from Timmon’s office and from Joe Wilson’s office and the Speaker of the House, and she said, no, that’s not right. She said something like, they didn’t give you the correct information.

    So then I turned to the children. I went over to where they were standing still very politely, and I said, we’re not going to be able to finish singing today. And they started a couple of them started to say, Ahhhh. And I said, no, we’re not going to have that attitude. I want you to have joy. I want you to smile. I want you to walk with your head held high, and I want you to not complain as we go out. I want you to be an example of the believer because we’re all Christian people.

    I turned back to the Capitol Police and I said that I understand authority, and I obey authority. And I said, in fact, we try to teach these young children to respect and obey authority. So we’ve stopped singing because you said to stop. But I said, “This is wrong.”


    The policeman interrupted, and she said, no, you are not allowed to sing. This is a demonstration. And I interrupted her, and I said, no, this is not a demonstration. This is simply singing a group of children singing the National Anthem in their own Capitol. And I said, what kind of impression do you think this has made on their young mind when they think about the Capitol for the rest of their life? They’re going to remember being shut down and not allowed to sing!

    I said this is not over. We’re going to leave peacefully, but this isn’t over. We’re going to write to our congressman and see if we can get this changed.

    One parent said, can we go to the Capitol steps outside and sing? These children have come here to sing, and they need a good memory. And the parents were saying, yes, let’s do it so that they can have a memory of singing at the Capitol. We got on the steps. Micah positioned the kids so that you could see the dome in the background. And we sang the National Anthem and America the Beautiful and another song or two.

    I don’t care to sue. There is a possibility that we could. I had some legal counsel saying that it’s possible that you could sue. You might win. You might lose. But what I care about, I don’t want to embarrass the Capitol Police just because they’re the Capitol Police. It’s just that this wasn’t right. And it isn’t right that it was called a demonstration. And it isn’t right to shut down a group of kids.

    “I think they should invite us back at their expense and have let us sing.”

    However, the Capitol Police claim that they did not stop the kids from singing the National Anthem, which is a lie. You can clearly see in the video they stopped the innocent kids from singing the National Anthem.

    “Recently somebody posted a video of a children’s choir singing the Star-Spangled Banner in the U.S. Capitol Building and wrongfully claimed we stopped the performance because it ‘might offend someone,’” the Capitol Police told The Daily Signal in an email statement. The police said, “Here is the truth. Demonstrations and musical performances are not allowed in the U.S. Capitol.”

    The police said when confronted, “Of course, because the singers in this situation were children, our officers were reasonable and allowed the children to finish their beautiful rendition of the Star-Spangled Banner,” the statement added. “The Congressional staff member who was accompanying the group knew the rules, yet lied to the officers multiple times about having permission from various offices. The staffer put both the choir and our officers, who were simply doing their jobs, in an awkward and embarrassing position.”

    The claim that musical performances are not allowed in the US Capitol is not true. Choirs have been singing inside the US Capitol, here are some instances.
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 06-02-2023 at 08:16 PM.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan



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  3. #2
    hmmm sound familiar.

    looks like they dont like dancing jew either! and a veteran non the less...
    FLIP THOSE FLAGS, THE NATION IS IN DISTRESS!


    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

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  4. #3
    I turned back to the Capitol Police and I said that I understand authority, and I obey authority. And I said, in fact, we try to teach these young children to respect and obey authority. So we’ve stopped singing because you said to stop. But I said, “This is wrong.”

    There’s your problem right there.

    SMGDH
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  5. #4
    “We had Capitol Hill Police come up to us and Sergeant on Arm’s office and then also the Speaker’s office. And the Speaker’s office tells us via the phone, that the speaker’s office is okay with the singing. Go ahead with it,” Rea told one of the parents.

    “And then I have a Capitol security guy telling me it’s okay, here’s my card. Go ahead and start singing. If anybody comes up to you, just let ’em know. Here’s my card,” Rea added.
    Calls should have been made, on the spot.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
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  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    I turned back to the Capitol Police and I said that I understand authority, and I obey authority. And I said, in fact, we try to teach these young children to respect and obey authority. So we’ve stopped singing because you said to stop. But I said, “This is wrong.”
    There’s your problem right there.

    SMGDH
    Problem? What problem?

    SWLODs will be submitted. What more could you want?

    I said this is not over. We’re going to leave peacefully, but this isn’t over. We’re going to write to our congressman and see if we can get this changed.
    Some hotheads might suggest voting hard - but I don't think a relatively minor incident like this really warrants such extreme measures.

    (We should keep that as a "nuclear option" for when we really need it as a last resort.)
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
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  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Problem? What problem?

    SWLODs will be submitted. What more could you want?

    Some hotheads might suggest voting hard - but I don't think a relatively minor incident like this really warrants such extreme measures.

    (We should keep that as a "nuclear option" for when we really need it as a last resort.)

    Of course you’re right. What WAS I thinking?

    Perhaps we could even add personal phone calls to the ffices of senators and representatives as a just beyond nuclear option?
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    (We should keep that as a "nuclear option" for when we really need it as a last resort.)
    Double Secret Really Extra Hard Voting?
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Double Secret Really Extra Hard Voting?
    Is there any other kind?
    Last edited by Occam's Banana; 06-03-2023 at 10:04 PM.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    Is there any other kind?
    No, comrade, there is not.

    DoublePlusGood
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Double Secret Really Extra Hard Voting?
    Jer. 11:18-20. "The Kingdom of God has come upon you." -- Matthew 12:28

  13. #11
    I said, what’s the problem? And she said we can’t let you continue. I said, why not? And she said, this is considered a demonstration, and we don’t allow demonstrations inside the Capitol.
    She should be fired. Today.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Think they would have shut down the Harlem Boy's Choir, or the San Francisco Gay Men's Choir?



    Choir Director Tells Gateway Pundit After US Capitol Police Incident – “This is Not Over – They Should Invite Us Back at Their Expense and Let Us Sing”

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/202...ndit-after-us/
    ...
    Just a caveat. IMHO, The Gateway Pundit is not a reliable or accurate source of information.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  15. #13
    I turned back to the Capitol Police and I said that I understand authority, and I obey authority. And I said, in fact, we try to teach these young children to respect and obey authority. So we’ve stopped singing because you said to stop. But I said, “This is wrong.”

    But what I care about, I don’t want to embarrass the Capitol Police just because they’re the Capitol Police.

    She's so brainwashed and lost she deserves to be a slave. And those poor innocent kids, they'll grow up to just like her, just another generation of numbskulls and a drain on society.

    I don't have any remorse for lamebrain morons like that.
    ____________

    An Agorist Primer ~ Samuel Edward Konkin III (free PDF download)

    The End of All Evil ~ Jeremy Locke (free PDF download)

  16. #14
    https://twitter.com/rj_abel/status/1664566582964547584

    "An idea whose time has come cannot be stopped by any army or any government" - Ron Paul.

    "To learn who rules over you simply find out who you arent allowed to criticize."

  17. #15
    @Anti Federalist, that tweet mentioned they were stopped when singing the second verse. You know that verse is actually racist right? Benn Swan covered this years ago.



    The second verse of the National Anthem threated the killing of slaves who were considering England's offer to fight for them in the War Of 1812 in exchange for their freedom. Oh, and the United States actually started the War Of 1812 by invading Canada. And that's today's episode of "Things they didn't teach you in school but are true nonetheless."
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

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    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    @Anti Federalist, that tweet mentioned they were stopped when singing the second verse. You know that verse is actually racist right?
    Oh, was that the problem? I figured they belted out, "...land of the free and home of the brave" and AOC got scared and hid under her desk. Free and brave people make her nervous.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    @Anti Federalist, that tweet mentioned they were stopped when singing the second verse. You know that verse is actually racist right? Benn Swan covered this years ago.

    The second verse of the National Anthem threated the killing of slaves who were considering England's offer to fight for them in the War Of 1812 in exchange for their freedom.
    Well, it is still the national anthem, all four verses of Key's poem.

    It has not been memory holed yet.

    And my point still stands: you think they would have shut down those other choirs I mentioned for singing all of the national anthem?

    That said, unlike, say, the roads built and designed by Robert Moses, that we discussed once before, I see no overtly "racist" line in the second verse (or any verse).

    I'm assuming this is the line in question, which is actually in the third verse:

    Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution!
    No refuge could save the hireling and slave
    From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave


    "Their blood", in this context, are American soldiers.

    "Their foul footsteps", are the steps of the invading British troops.

    Key is saying, in his patriotic fervor, that the fight that his fellow country men gave the British, will defeat them, and will not save their mercenaries or hired slaves.

    There is nothing racist about that statement.

    Complete version of "The Star-Spangled Banner" showing spelling and punctuation
    from Francis Scott Key's manuscript in the Maryland Historical Society collection.


    O say can you see, by the dawn's early light,
    What so proudly we hail'd at the twilight's last gleaming,
    Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight
    O'er the ramparts we watch'd were so gallantly streaming?
    And the rocket's red glare, the bomb bursting in air,
    Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there,
    O say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
    O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

    On the shore dimly seen through the mists of the deep
    Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
    What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
    As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
    Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
    In full glory reflected now shines in the stream,
    'Tis the star-spangled banner - O long may it wave
    O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

    And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
    That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion
    A home and a Country should leave us no more?
    Their blood has wash'd out their foul footstep's pollution.
    No refuge could save the hireling and slave
    From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
    And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
    O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

    O thus be it ever when freemen shall stand
    Between their lov'd home and the war's desolation!
    Blest with vict'ry and peace may the heav'n rescued land
    Praise the power that hath made and preserv'd us a nation!
    Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
    And this be our motto - "In God is our trust,"
    And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
    O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.


    Oh, and the United States actually started the War Of 1812 by invading Canada. And that's today's episode of "Things they didn't teach you in school but are true nonetheless."
    Let me ask you this: We both have sons who are young men now.

    If Volodymyr Zelenskyy sent armed troops out all across America, and in every town and city started randomly dragging off in chains, randomly chosen young men of a fighting age, the same age as our sons, and then shipped them off to fight as conscripts in the Russian - Ukrainian war, under threat of death, would you consider it an act of war?

    Because that is what the British had been doing to our merchant seamen and fishermen, by the thousands, for years up until the war.

    Congress lawfully declared war for that reason and the economic reasons that went along with it, and as a strategy of war, then invaded Canada, to hopefully use that as a bargaining chip to force the British to acquiesce to our demands.

    One of the primary ones being: the cessation of enslaving seamen
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 06-03-2023 at 07:20 AM.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    One of the primary ones being: the cessation of enslaving seamen
    They didn't enslave them. They impressed them into the Royal Navy.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    They didn't enslave them. They impressed them into the Royal Navy.
    I see the distinction, but not the difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You only want the freedoms that will undermine the nation and lead to the destruction of liberty.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowball View Post
    They didn't enslave them. They impressed them into the Royal Navy.
    A British warship would bear down on a US merchant vessel, or a long range whaler, board that vessel with Royal Marines, examine the crew and crew list and, at gunpoint, chain and remove from the vessel, hands that were valuable to, and needed by the British navy in their war effort with France. Able Seamen, Foretopmen, Mates, Riggers, Sailing Masters and Cooks, believe it or not, were valuable "prizes" for a naval raiding party.

    Once taken, they would be "pressed" into involuntary service, under threat of death, onboard another British naval vessel.

    Most died, very few ever made it home again.

    How, in any sense of the word, is that NOT slavery?
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    @Anti Federalist, that tweet mentioned they were stopped when singing the second verse. You know that verse is actually racist right? Benn Swan covered this years ago.



    The second verse of the National Anthem threated the killing of slaves who were considering England's offer to fight for them in the War Of 1812 in exchange for their freedom. Oh, and the United States actually started the War Of 1812 by invading Canada. And that's today's episode of "Things they didn't teach you in school but are true nonetheless."
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Well, it is still the national anthem, all four verses of Key's poem.

    It has not been memory holed yet.

    And my point still stands: you think they would have shut down those other choirs I mentioned for singing all of the national anthem?

    That said, unlike, say, the roads built and designed by Robert Moses, that we discussed once before, I see no overtly "racist" line in the second verse (or any verse).

    I'm assuming this is the line in question, which is actually in the third verse:

    Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution!
    No refuge could save the hireling and slave
    From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave


    "Their blood", in this context, are American soldiers.

    "Their foul footsteps", are the steps of the invading British troops.

    Key is saying, in his patriotic fervor, that the fight that his fellow country men gave the British, will defeat them, and will not save their mercenaries or hired slaves.

    There is nothing racist about that statement.

    Complete version of "The Star-Spangled Banner" showing spelling and punctuation
    from Francis Scott Key's manuscript in the Maryland Historical Society collection.


    O say can you see, by the dawn's early light,
    What so proudly we hail'd at the twilight's last gleaming,
    Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight
    O'er the ramparts we watch'd were so gallantly streaming?
    And the rocket's red glare, the bomb bursting in air,
    Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there,
    O say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
    O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

    On the shore dimly seen through the mists of the deep
    Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
    What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
    As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
    Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
    In full glory reflected now shines in the stream,
    'Tis the star-spangled banner - O long may it wave
    O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

    And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
    That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion
    A home and a Country should leave us no more?
    Their blood has wash'd out their foul footstep's pollution.
    No refuge could save the hireling and slave
    From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
    And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
    O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

    O thus be it ever when freemen shall stand
    Between their lov'd home and the war's desolation!
    Blest with vict'ry and peace may the heav'n rescued land
    Praise the power that hath made and preserv'd us a nation!
    Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
    And this be our motto - "In God is our trust,"
    And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
    O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.




    Let me ask you this: We both have sons who are young men now.

    If Volodymyr Zelenskyy sent armed troops out all across America, and in every town and city started randomly dragging off in chains, randomly chosen young men of a fighting age, the same age as our sons, and then shipped them off to fight as conscripts in the Russian - Ukrainian war, under threat of death, would you consider it an act of war?

    Because that is what the British had been doing to our merchant seamen and fishermen, by the thousands, for years up until the war.

    Congress lawfully declared war for that reason and the economic reasons that went along with it, and as a strategy of war, then invaded Canada, to hopefully use that as a bargaining chip to force the British to acquiesce to our demands.

    One of the primary ones being: the cessation of enslaving seamen
    Seems to me the second verse can be spun wither way. "Hireling and slave" that were part of the enemy forces were enemies. During the revolutionary war, plenty of British "hireling and slave" were killed by US forces. Was it outrageous to kill Hessians?

    On the other hand, the point that Ben Swann was making was that the slaves were supposedly offered freedom to fight against the US. Does that mean they weren't enemy combatants? Perhaps being freed is a more noble payment than gold, but it is still payment to be a mercenary. There are two sides in a battle, and each side has their reasons to be fighting, some more noble than others.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Seems to me the second verse can be spun wither way. "Hireling and slave" that were part of the enemy forces were enemies. During the revolutionary war, plenty of British "hireling and slave" were killed by US forces. Was it outrageous to kill Hessians?

    On the other hand, the point that Ben Swann was making was that the slaves were supposedly offered freedom to fight against the US. Does that mean they weren't enemy combatants? Perhaps being freed is a more noble payment than gold, but it is still payment to be a mercenary. There are two sides in a battle, and each side has their reasons to be fighting, some more noble than others.
    The U.S. should have freed and paid the slaves to fight against the British. That and the U.S. had no just cause to invade Canada.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    The U.S. should have freed and paid the slaves to fight against the British. That and the U.S. had no just cause to invade Canada.
    Congress had lawfully declared war against the British.

    Canada was a possession of the British and right on the border, undefended.

    Sucks, but, "war is all hell" after all.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  27. #24

    @jmdrake

    Note the make up of the crew, who are about to be "pressed" by the British in this 1810 sketch.

    I clearly see at least one, maybe two, free black sailors in that crew.

    “Without a press, I have no idea how our Fleet can be manned.” —British Admiral Lord Horatio Nelson
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 06-03-2023 at 02:26 PM.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan



  28. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    The U.S. should have freed and paid the slaves to fight against the British.
    True.

    That and the U.S. had no just cause to invade Canada.
    War with England was declared, as AF said. To this very day, the King of England is also the King of Canada.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  30. #26
    We invaded Canada after England ended the blockade. And....why didn't the U.S. offer freedom to slaves willing to fight against the British? Rhetorical question I know. OMG! White sailors being force to work (for pay) for the Brits! Clutch muh pearls. How many Canadians were grabbing U.S. sailors off ships? Wouldn't the simpler solution be to have more marines on U.S. ships to defend them from being boarded? Hey, maybe that would be a good job for the black slaves that you want to free (if you want to free them). But...nah. Start a land grabbing war with Canada that you basically end up losing. Then watch the British overplay their hand and try to invade the U.S. and when you push them out declare that a "victory." Sounds like when Saddam invaded Iran, got pushed out, then ended up at a stalemate and declared "victory."

    Anyhow, thanks for the correction for which verse is which. Tecumsah was the real hero of the War of 1812 which is why, even though he was on the other side, the U.S. built a statue of him at Naval Academy.




    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Well, it is still the national anthem, all four verses of Key's poem.

    It has not been memory holed yet.

    And my point still stands: you think they would have shut down those other choirs I mentioned for singing all of the national anthem?

    That said, unlike, say, the roads built and designed by Robert Moses, that we discussed once before, I see no overtly "racist" line in the second verse (or any verse).

    I'm assuming this is the line in question, which is actually in the third verse:

    Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution!
    No refuge could save the hireling and slave
    From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave


    "Their blood", in this context, are American soldiers.

    "Their foul footsteps", are the steps of the invading British troops.

    Key is saying, in his patriotic fervor, that the fight that his fellow country men gave the British, will defeat them, and will not save their mercenaries or hired slaves.

    There is nothing racist about that statement.

    Complete version of "The Star-Spangled Banner" showing spelling and punctuation
    from Francis Scott Key's manuscript in the Maryland Historical Society collection.


    O say can you see, by the dawn's early light,
    What so proudly we hail'd at the twilight's last gleaming,
    Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight
    O'er the ramparts we watch'd were so gallantly streaming?
    And the rocket's red glare, the bomb bursting in air,
    Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there,
    O say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
    O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

    On the shore dimly seen through the mists of the deep
    Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
    What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
    As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
    Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
    In full glory reflected now shines in the stream,
    'Tis the star-spangled banner - O long may it wave
    O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

    And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
    That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion
    A home and a Country should leave us no more?
    Their blood has wash'd out their foul footstep's pollution.
    No refuge could save the hireling and slave
    From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
    And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
    O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

    O thus be it ever when freemen shall stand
    Between their lov'd home and the war's desolation!
    Blest with vict'ry and peace may the heav'n rescued land
    Praise the power that hath made and preserv'd us a nation!
    Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
    And this be our motto - "In God is our trust,"
    And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
    O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.




    Let me ask you this: We both have sons who are young men now.

    If Volodymyr Zelenskyy sent armed troops out all across America, and in every town and city started randomly dragging off in chains, randomly chosen young men of a fighting age, the same age as our sons, and then shipped them off to fight as conscripts in the Russian - Ukrainian war, under threat of death, would you consider it an act of war?

    Because that is what the British had been doing to our merchant seamen and fishermen, by the thousands, for years up until the war.

    Congress lawfully declared war for that reason and the economic reasons that went along with it, and as a strategy of war, then invaded Canada, to hopefully use that as a bargaining chip to force the British to acquiesce to our demands.

    One of the primary ones being: the cessation of enslaving seamen
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    We invaded Canada after England ended the blockade. And....why didn't the U.S. offer freedom to slaves willing to fight against the British? Rhetorical question I know. OMG! White sailors being force to work (for pay) for the Brits! Clutch muh pearls. How many Canadians were grabbing U.S. sailors off ships?
    Would it change your perception if I told you that many, not all or a majority of but many, of the seamen that were enslaved on the high seas by the British were free black whalermen or fishermen sailing out of places like Boston and New Bedford and Nantucket?

    Anyhow, thanks for the correction for which verse is which.
    OK, so I had that right, that is the verse that has everybody upset?

    So then, is it racist?

    And why did the cops stop the choir on the second verse then?
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Would it change your perception if I told you that many, not all or a majority of but many, of the seamen that were enslaved on the high seas by the British were free black whalermen or fishermen sailing out of places like Boston and New Bedford and Nantucket?



    OK, so I had that right, that is the verse that has everybody upset?

    So then, is it racist?

    And why did the cops stop the choir on the second verse then?
    Just to be clear, the cops suck. The first amendment should protect people in Confederate uniforms singing Dixie if that's what they want to do. And who the hell traumatizes kids like that? That said, I still think it was a douche move on the part of Francis Scott Key to threaten people for wanting freedom. The British impressing black seaman (and paying them) into temporary service sounds like the Union impressing black freeman to build Ft. Negley in Nashville. (I've walked around that fort a few times. Interesting experience.) And before someone says "See! Lincoln was a tyrant!" the south was FAR worse not just to black people but to poor whites. The rich Southern planters forced poor whites to fight for them while exempting themselves from service based on how many slaves they owned.

    Still waiting for an answer as to why invading Canada was justified. Funny enough the U.S. best success was fighting at sea. Which...goes back to my earlier point. The U.S. could have simply better equipped U.S. vessels to be able to defend themselves from whoever was attacking them. Would have had the same result. But then we wouldn't have gotten a national song I suppose. Kind of the Ron Paul "letters of marque and reprisal" proposition that he offered as opposed to a land war in Afghanistan. And we see how that ended up.

    Last edited by jmdrake; 06-03-2023 at 02:58 PM.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Well, it is still the national anthem, all four verses of Key's poem.

    It has not been memory holed yet.

    And my point still stands: you think they would have shut down those other choirs I mentioned for singing all of the national anthem?

    That said, unlike, say, the roads built and designed by Robert Moses, that we discussed once before, I see no overtly "racist" line in the second verse (or any verse).

    I'm assuming this is the line in question, which is actually in the third verse:

    Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution!
    No refuge could save the hireling and slave
    From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave


    "Their blood", in this context, are American soldiers.

    "Their foul footsteps", are the steps of the invading British troops.

    Key is saying, in his patriotic fervor, that the fight that his fellow country men gave the British, will defeat them, and will not save their mercenaries or hired slaves.

    There is nothing racist about that statement.

    Complete version of "The Star-Spangled Banner" showing spelling and punctuation
    from Francis Scott Key's manuscript in the Maryland Historical Society collection.


    O say can you see, by the dawn's early light,
    What so proudly we hail'd at the twilight's last gleaming,
    Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight
    O'er the ramparts we watch'd were so gallantly streaming?
    And the rocket's red glare, the bomb bursting in air,
    Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there,
    O say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
    O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

    On the shore dimly seen through the mists of the deep
    Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
    What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
    As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
    Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
    In full glory reflected now shines in the stream,
    'Tis the star-spangled banner - O long may it wave
    O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

    And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
    That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion
    A home and a Country should leave us no more?
    Their blood has wash'd out their foul footstep's pollution.
    No refuge could save the hireling and slave
    From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
    And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
    O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

    O thus be it ever when freemen shall stand
    Between their lov'd home and the war's desolation!
    Blest with vict'ry and peace may the heav'n rescued land
    Praise the power that hath made and preserv'd us a nation!
    Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
    And this be our motto - "In God is our trust,"
    And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
    O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.




    Let me ask you this: We both have sons who are young men now.

    If Volodymyr Zelenskyy sent armed troops out all across America, and in every town and city started randomly dragging off in chains, randomly chosen young men of a fighting age, the same age as our sons, and then shipped them off to fight as conscripts in the Russian - Ukrainian war, under threat of death, would you consider it an act of war?

    Because that is what the British had been doing to our merchant seamen and fishermen, by the thousands, for years up until the war.

    Congress lawfully declared war for that reason and the economic reasons that went along with it, and as a strategy of war, then invaded Canada, to hopefully use that as a bargaining chip to force the British to acquiesce to our demands.

    One of the primary ones being: the cessation of enslaving seamen
    Let me ask you. If a bunch of Dutch farmers moved into New Hampshire, kicked you off your land and killed anyone who resisted, and if when the American government tried to make them stop they rebelled and declared "independence" like the Dutch Boers did to the British, how would you feel about the Boers? Then, years later, they quit oppressing you directly...but didn't give back your family farm?

    Oh, and just a couple of generations after the war of 1812 both sides in the U.S. Civil war started using conscription and the South started conscription first. So that whole "We had to invade Canada to stop the British draft" rational is pretty thin.
    Last edited by jmdrake; 08-04-2023 at 12:03 PM.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Let me ask you. If a bunch of Dutch farmers moved into New Hampshire, kicked you off your land and killed anyone who resisted, and if when the American government tried to make them stop they rebelled and declared "independence" like the Dutch Boers did to the British, how would you feel about the Boers? Then, years later, they quit oppressing you directly...but didn't give back your family farm?
    I'd be pissed and I'd be singing songs of rebellion and slaughter of my enemies and I would want to do so.

    Own it.

    I know a song of genocide when I hear one.

    It is what it is...don't blame me for sounding the alarm.

    If Julius Malema gains power next year in South Africa, every white person in the country will be in mortal danger.

    https://twitter.com/EndWokeness/stat...38493696704513

    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 08-04-2023 at 01:53 PM.
    “It is not true that all creeds and cultures are equally assimilable in a First World nation born of England, Christianity, and Western civilization. Race, faith, ethnicity and history leave genetic fingerprints no ‘proposition nation’ can erase." -- Pat Buchanan

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